Jumping is pointless in a game. If devs want you to get somewhere you can just walk there. Jumping wont help you get anywhere your not suposed to be. I dont think an MMO is the place to add jumping obsticles either. Sure you could do the "Pillar jump" to get to certian places but thats not really neccesary.Only thing Jumping is somewhat useful for is PvP, maybe but then you look like a couple of retarded kangaroos fighting. Since XIV isnt about PvP (I assume) I dont think we need jumping.
Swimming has been done all wrong in other games, You could swim to underground caves, or towns(caves towns with air in them), You shouldnt be able to fight underwater you should have a breath meter, and weigth stipulations. Swimming could allow for some great expansion zones and content.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Swimming would be a great addition to the game for exploration. Maybe even the ability to rent boats and cruise to new islands with some sailing skills?
Jumping would be nice too, but I'd have to say the really annoying thing about WoW is definatly seeing people running, jumping, and making fools out of themselves in town (it ruins my experience personally). Maybe if jumping was limited to crossing small gaps or streams... I'm thinking like in Zelda. Link doesn't jump at all in that game unless you run off an edge!
I wouldn't care much for jumping and swimming. It would be interesting if your character would auto-jump/climb and such. Just running and having them jump up and down things and all that would be neat. I would also hope we could use terrain better to our advantage this time and mobs don't just climb up unclimable things to get to us.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best. FFXI Character: Satimasu FFXI Server: Valefor FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
Swimming I'm not really a big fan of unless there's swimming specific content. If there's nothing you HAVE to swim to do, why spend the development resources to include it?
It's not as easy as some think it is. You have to develop new animations, change the geographic boundaries of every zone where water is present, etc.
Jumping, on the other hand... while it's probably just as difficult to implement as swimming, I would very much like to see. It was always annoying to me in FFXI to have a low fence in front of me and have to run aaaaaall the way around it when it felt like I should be able to just jump over it.
I also wholeheartedly agree with Satimasu - if we can't jump or go around an obstacle, mobs shouldn't be able to either. I hope monster pathing gets a lot of attention in the game.
I have no problem with not jumping, I have a big problem getting stuck behind some stupid rock that is barely higher than my foot. SE games are notorious for it, and is why we want jumping.
And please don't try to bring realism argument into a game. There are so many unreal things it's silly.
Maybe Square-Enix doesn't want assholes in their game, either. But as that post made apparent, they're getting one anyway.
Hey chief ... Asura is proof enough that SE will let as many assholes that want to play their game. Doesn't stop the fact that you can't jump, you can't swim, because the developers DON'T FUCKING WANT YOU TO. If they want you to jump in FFXIV then you will be able to jump no amount of bitching if going to change that fact. You have two choices, play the fucking game they put in front of you or don't. Choice is your, choice is everyones. If someone gives up on a game because they can't make their avatar jump then boo-fucking-ho it ends up being one less spot where I have to interact with some stuck up prick.
Hey chief...I don't personally care if they add jumping and swimming or not. Doesn't change the fact the post of yours I quoted looked like it was written by an emo 12 year old on a sugar high. Take a fuckin' chill pill. It's a damned game, a bunch of worthless pixels. And yet you'd swear it was your life's work being besmirched with that rant you typed.
See the problem isn't me on this one. You are reading it like I give two shits about anyone opinion in rebuttal to what I say. First, you don't see the sarcasm and took everything I said seriously instead of the tongue-in-cheek way I intended it. I wrote it to make the person who reads it laugh. Did I succeed in the endeavor is up in the air, but I'll guarantee that some people did in fact find it funny.
Honestly the only reason to respond to the post like you did was because it struck a nerve somewhere. So either you are in the camp that really wants this jumping and swimming and I'm infringing on your ideals, or you are/were some overweight fat boy with no athletic ability that is the stereotype of the 40-year-old MMO player in his mothers basement and I'm infringing on your persona. I don't know maybe you like to skip to your hearts content. Wars are fought over those very things. The only other possibility, albeit very unlikely, is that the picture of the kid is yours. To that I respond: What are the fucking odds that the kid whose picture I found by typing "ugly kid" into google images would read these forums and get offended despite the internets already calling him ugly?
Take my post about the new linkshell forming that is in my sig. Newsflash: It isn't real; It is a satirization of endgame linkshells on Asura. It is honestly ment to ridicule the dicks that are on that server that actually do that shit while making everyone else that doesn't quite understand that that crap actually happens laugh. If you happen to look and notice there is at least one post that says that the post was stupid. They either really missed the point or -- the option I'm thinking -- I kinda struck a nerve because he has been in a shell (or guild/clan in another game) that kinda did that shit.
Other than me attacking your ideals or persona I can't see any other reason to even respond let alone calling me an asshole. And just let me point out I'll be the first to say I am an asshole so yeah I kinda agreed with you there. And yeah, didn't respond because I felt I need to defend myself, just responded to point out that Asura is full of more assholes than proctology school (and not sarcastic there ... if you think i'm bad stay away for your own good). If there is something major I'm missing due tell.
BTW, just saying, you should really go read some emo Hannah Montanta fan fiction before you start comparing. I happened to be writing it while still half asleep at work in between doing different tasks. In fact i'm doing it again today and I'm just starting to wake up ... so ... yeah ...
On the topic of acting like a child. I honstly really can't stand all these "suggestions" on these forums. You will get one here and there with would be a vast improvement on FFXI. There is no one here that will ever call this game perfect and there is much room to grow and suggestions like that are good for the community. I personally can't stand the people who are so stuck up that they will say something like "I won't play this game if they don't add ..." whatever. I don't know about you, but I don't read that as "Gee it would be swell if they added ..." I read it as "I want this and they better add it or I'm gonna throw a temper fit and bitch and cry and stomp and not play their stupid game ... " This is just the precursor to the inveitable post once the game comes out saying "This games sucks because they didn't add what I wanted and anyone that plays this game without it is stupid" ... Can't wait.
The developers are the ones who are making the game; that is the game you will get regardless of what anyone wants in the game. FIN. Someone bitches and complains about recast timers not being displayed for you. Their response is along the lines of "I want this in the game and since SE is too stupid to add it I'm gonna download windower and add it myself." SE isn't stupid it isn't there because it is their game and they add what they want. First off are you that lazy you can't either do a quick peek at your desktop clock (assuming you are in windowed mode) or watch (assuming you have a watch) or cell phone (assuming you are living in this decade)? Or you can't estimate the 5 minute recast for Berserk? Or you can't just hit Ctrl+J and just look at the recast timer of the ability? Macro in /recast "Berserk" to your already existing Berserk macro? It is not your right to tamper with the game to make it better and if you can't enjoy a game how it is why the hell are you playing?
As for the topic at hand: Jumping and swimming. Cliffs and water create a natural barrier; these are there so you can't cross them. The developers either want you to not cross because there is nothing on the other side or they have an area on the other side with mobs they don't want you to have easy access to. If you were able to jump you could take the back door into the Boyhada Tree and enter Dragon Aery directly form the Sancuary. You are not supposed to do that. A) It keeps noobs farther away from getting eatten by Fafnir and It makes it so you have to work to get to Fafnir if you want to camp it (It kinda disgusts that someone's eye just got real wide and when they realized it would be a quick easy way to get to Fafnir and it would be less work).
First off if you could jump, that cliff would be a whole lot higher so you couldn't jump in the back door. Also if you could swim they would make it so KA's spawn was high enough off the lake so you couldn't swim over there. They developers would make the jumps/swimming impossible to get to where you wanted to go so you'd have to do the same challenge you would anyway. So ... it all begs question: What would jumping/swimming then accomplish? You'd be able to jump over fences or creeks? Honestly ... how many fences are there in this game? How many small rocks or other natural barriers are there in this game ... better question: How many small rocks or other natural barriers are there in this game that doesn't take less than a second to walk around anyway? The only things that you'd want to jump over are things that you can't cross now ,and if you had the ability to jump the developers would just make it so you can't jump over it either. By adding swimming/jumping the net accomplishment is nothing other than a shit load of people who are jumping for no freaking reason in town. Congrats.
Honestly, Swimming was one of the funnest aspects for WoW for me. I had become so used to the idea of water just being in the scenery. But then suddenly I was exporing a massive, second world!
Take that concept with Final Fantasy X...it was extremely water-oriented, blitzball, etc. it was somewhat unique for the series, but really worked.
AS this version on FF MMO will be a bit more solo-able, i think water and jumping would be a great addition to the exploration and combat.
BUt it wasn't there in FFXI and i played that for 2 years. I can survive eiterh way.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
I have to admit im the same way, no jumping, no underwater OR invis walls you run into and cant fall 2 feet and im done. I played LoTR till i tried to swim across a river to a few buildings; half way invis wall! Atleast give me a mountain!
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
I can almost understand not being able to swim. Especially the heavy armor classes. There's just no way that a Galka Paladin would stand a chance underwater. Just because this is a different world, that doesn't mean characters don't require things like food and sleep and oxygen to survive. That was one of the silliest things about BlitzBall Final Fantasy X. No breathing apparatus. Underwater battles. Long ones. If you want to just accept that in the world of Spira, people could either hold their breath for REALLY long times or they could breathe underwater, then whatever. It didn't really hurt the story any, it was just unrealistic. I suppose that's the point of video games though, moreover FANTASY video games, to be in a world that is not our own. So in that way it actually contributed somewhat.
My friend brought up an interesting point in reference to D&D. At least in that regard you get penalties, subject to race and skill and armor, to such things as running and jumping and swimming, to the effect that because of some individual player-choices, they simply can't. No fuss. If you choose to be a Galka Paladin you can't swim. You can't jump. And as big and tough as you are, you should consider yourself lucky to be able to sprint.
But jumping is something everyone can do. It just bothers me that I can't jump in FFXI, but then again how high can a person jump? In both DDO and WOW you can jump almost twice as high as your character's height, which is unrealistic to the point of pure silliness. How high you can jump might depend on your character choices, but everyone should be able to jump a couple feet off the ground. Not to climb over that one ledge you have to go all the way around for. Don't be stupid. If they want to prevent you from getting to a certain area they could just as easily add a wall or make the damn cliff a couple feet higher. Yeah, sure, ok; people will then complain that they can't climb ledges - which is not an arguement I'd be willing to take on, ever, except in action games like Drake's Fortune and Tomb Raider where that kind of action is the core of gameplay. And while mixing that genre with Final Fantasy would be interesting, to say the least, it wouldn't be practical.
Basically what I'm saying is this: I don't expect to climb cliffs, but I would certainly like to not have to be stuck in some stupid area because I can't step over a ledge. To use Latheine as an example, falling down those areas that require you to backtrack the long way all around the canyon is understandable, but not having to zig-zag around simple terain where ledges are not even apparent. It's the same concept as the invisible wall. A recurring annoyance that could have been fixed had a little more thought been put into landscaping or character movement. And while it would be nice to take a swim, it would be even nicer to see things like water affect your character's appearance. Instead of making entirely new animations for underwater activity, since both these worlds are set in a more 'primitive', less technologically advanced time, in places where there still exist gods, magic, and land unexplored, you wouldn't be able to breathe underwater, period. Fiends live in water. You can't move very swiftly, let alone engage in combat while submerged. You'd be drowning while being attacked. It would be pointless to even try.
I encourage everyone to stop associating EVERYTHING with XI. Especially right now as we know NOTHING about XIV. It's going to be different, Squre-Enix made that much clear, with the exception of 'similar character models' for those who are attached to their XI characters. It was a minor nuisance that you couldn't do these things in XI but you still played it. Perhaps you will be able to in XIV but if you can't, don't be surprised.
No FF game before it has had it, unless if was like to jump down a cliff to take a shortcut or something like that.
But another reason is because fighting in FFXI used a lot of strategy, and if there is pvp in this game, then I think it would be nice to have battles similar to the PvE battles that were in FFXI rather than having people jump around each other. It's such an annoying thing to see people just jumping everywhere.
And if I'm correct, back when I played there was a lock on system that let you always face the enemy, so jumping would benefit no one in a pvp aspect.
I just don't see a reason to add it. I loved how the whole game was designed in FFXI, and I didn't need a jumping ability to see any of it. The only thing people use jumping for in MMO's is to be annoyingly hard to hit in PvP and that is about it.
No Final Fantasy has had it before because, as a role-playing game, you simply slayed a random enemy and got stat bonuses to slay the next enemy. That's it, that's the core of the gameplay right there. Doing the footwork for that next bit of cinematics to continue the story. It's an interactive movie, more or less. The point is that just because Final Fantasy hasn't had it before, that's no reason to not allow it. Final Fantasy X-2 was a huge change. People didn't like it, others loved it. Same for XI, and a plethora of other games that have spun off previous titles. XIII is already a three-game series. Some people shun that and the differences presented within them, too. I just can't respect the opinions of xenophobes.
In an MMORPG, as the goal of these types of games today is to imitate life or offer an alternative, it's just a little frustrating when you can't do basic things any normal person would be able to do in life. In PvP the people who jump around and make themselves hard to hit, well they just simply don't know how to play because the truth is that while they're moving their accuracy is reduced and their spells are interrupted. In most games staying still is actually the best way to increase your accuracy and attacks, and some even have a 'tumble' skill that allows you to maneuver around your foe with a roll. It's a good combination of turn-based and twitch-based action. People jumping around might piss you off in PvP, but just standing there as my character auto-attacks while selecting a sequence of premeditated abilities is boring. Having an 'evasion' skill is kinda silly when your character just stands there, evading nothing. I'm likely to fall asleep mid-battle after about an hour. Might as well be playing EVE-saver. EVE:Online is pretty much a screensaver...
And please don't try to bring realism argument into a game. There are so many unreal things it's silly.
I agree that realism is a silly argument to make for games, unless a game is attempting to mimic real life.
There is something to be said for cohesiveness and/or consistency though. Many games fail here.
You can't jump a little rock in your way (you have to go the long way around) but later (using only specally designated spots on the map) you make 10ft jumps between cliffs. So I can make a 10ft. horizontal jump but fail a 1ft vertical jump? That doesn't make sense within the imaginary world. (Leave the real world out of it, thanks.)
You see similar issues with swimming in games. You can move through water only in special circumstances. This can be done well (you can only cross a quickly moving river where it gets very shallow) or poorly (you can swim in one special area but any other water kills you for no known reason.)
While I personally don't care if there's no jumping or swimming I hope that they're consistent in the decision. If I can't jump or swim generally then I can't jump or swim. (Granted in the FF world you they can always toss in magic to allow you to do something one place and not another. The ever (in?)famous, "I don't know how it works, it's magic, just go with it" employed by many fantasy games and books to fill plot/mechanic holes.
Jumping would be okay, but I think they could have a stamina stat to stop people doing it all the time, and to deter people from doing that repeatedly in combat.
Also the guards in towns should one shot all the people standing around on building tops and mailboxes.
Swimming is a pretty good idea but, like another poster said, it just looks dumb if the combat animations are unchanged.
I'm not a big fan of these dancing animations either, unless you're a DNC of course.
Also, I'm bored with mounts - so fed up with horses, tigers, wyverns. Give me trains, submarines, chariots, handgliders, mountain bikes, broomsticks, magic carpets, canoes, skis, balloons, dogsleds, zip-wires, stagecoaches etc.
One thing I noticed in FFXI was that in battle the animations looked pretty smooth and pulling off spells and weapon skills looked great but outside of combat my characters movement felt somewhat robotic and that made me feel less immersed, I think something that contributed to this somewhat the fact I can't jump. Another thing that kind of bothered me was there was so many locations that had beautiful beaches and water but your character wasn't able to swim in it because of an invisible wall which killed a lot of immersion, it also felt odd fighting pugils on land since they are fish. Would you want to see jumping and swimming added to Final Fantasy XIV? Edit: Something I would like to add to my original post is that it was so annoying in FFXI seeing a little rock or ledge in front of you but you need to walk around it because you can't just jump over it.
I would like to see both aspects added to the game but to be honest if they aren't I won't be upset about it any.
I remember when I first logged onto WoW, the people just jumping up and down all the time was about as annoying as it got but I am kind of used to it now as that community is really bad anyway and filled with people like that. I don't think the jumping would be near as bad in FFXIV since the game isn't entirely wrapped around that kind of player base.
Eh I honestly don't care anymore I'm just ready for FFXIV to come out.
In my opinion Jumping and swimming is only for games where it has a purpose, like ratchet and clank or where it will help in combat counter strike. Jumping and swimming should not be there for fun, FFXI is a serious game and thats why you can't jump or swim. FFXI is a hard game and thats why all those wow kiddo types come and whines "this is to hard", "grinding is so last year" ... This is another Final Fantasy game, how many FF games can you jump and/or swim in?
Well it could be that SE would make it so that the character could jump every time it had to, that is seen before ex. FFX-2.
I think a lot of how you could develop an action mmorpg and when I someday have been educated and get to work for a company it's probably to late, there's not many possibilities to make Original games anymore.
There's always I chance for something new and exciting to happen, so I can always wait until tomorrow.
Jumping eh if they do they do,if they dont they dont it really never bothered me in FF11 (my first mmo as well). Swimming though like some said to a decolite island with some pals or some sort of under water missions would be interesting and cool to boot, to me swimming underwater and such adds a bit more emersion to the game. I hope they do a fun job on the fishing as the did in FF11. It was much better then the staggnet Cast/wait for bit/right-click reel in, actually struggling with the fish was fun and made fishing imo worth spending some time doing aspecially if you grabbed a couple of buddies
In my opinion Jumping and swimming is only for games where it has a purpose, like ratchet and clank or where it will help in combat counter strike. Jumping and swimming should not be there for fun, FFXI is a serious game and thats why you can't jump or swim. FFXI is a hard game and thats why all those wow kiddo types come and whines "this is to hard", "grinding is so last year" ... This is another Final Fantasy game, how many FF games can you jump and/or swim in? Well it could be that SE would make it so that the character could jump every time it had to, that is seen before ex. FFX-2. I think a lot of how you could develop an action mmorpg and when I someday have been educated and get to work for a company it's probably to late, there's not many possibilities to make Original games anymore.
It may be a more in depth or as you say serious game than most, does not mean people playing FF dont want to have fun as well,hell thats what playing a game is all about. Im serious about playing to an extent but if im not having fun than F that (in a nice way). not saying that jumping or swimming being or not being in game will ruin my fun of FF14 when it comes out, its more about the content,game play,combat system,community,emerssion, and fun factor (and my fun factor has nothing to do with how hard a game is, the more challenging imo the more fun, who wants to be at max level in 2-3weeks,not me) than 2 small mechanics of a game.
Jumping is something I would have a problem with if you can do it freely. It always annoys me when I see asshats jumping around me on any game (especially FPS games). If jumping is implemented, it shouldn't be freely done, so it would only be like jumping over a fence, rock, etc.
Swimming, on the other hand, does sound cool to implement. However, there has to be in-water fighting mechanics (so your fighting stances aren't the same in water like they are on dry land, that just isn't normal) that makes sense. I could see potential with this. For example, a ninja-like character could steathily swim underwater and breathes through a hidden tube so he can stay submerged. Or a wizard in water would have amped-up water spells. Swimming would affect different classes differently. Some could use it to their advantage and some can't (and some are at a disadvantage, like a tanker class that wears extremely heavy armor would have difficulties fighting and swimming inside water).
Comments
Jumping is pointless in a game. If devs want you to get somewhere you can just walk there. Jumping wont help you get anywhere your not suposed to be. I dont think an MMO is the place to add jumping obsticles either. Sure you could do the "Pillar jump" to get to certian places but thats not really neccesary.Only thing Jumping is somewhat useful for is PvP, maybe but then you look like a couple of retarded kangaroos fighting. Since XIV isnt about PvP (I assume) I dont think we need jumping.
Swimming has been done all wrong in other games, You could swim to underground caves, or towns(caves towns with air in them), You shouldnt be able to fight underwater you should have a breath meter, and weigth stipulations. Swimming could allow for some great expansion zones and content.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Swimming would be a great addition to the game for exploration. Maybe even the ability to rent boats and cruise to new islands with some sailing skills?
Jumping would be nice too, but I'd have to say the really annoying thing about WoW is definatly seeing people running, jumping, and making fools out of themselves in town (it ruins my experience personally). Maybe if jumping was limited to crossing small gaps or streams... I'm thinking like in Zelda. Link doesn't jump at all in that game unless you run off an edge!
But if we have jumping we can haz mailbox dancing...
Now who wouldn't want that in a game?
I wouldn't care much for jumping and swimming. It would be interesting if your character would auto-jump/climb and such. Just running and having them jump up and down things and all that would be neat. I would also hope we could use terrain better to our advantage this time and mobs don't just climb up unclimable things to get to us.
To be the best, you must help each other become the best.
FFXI Character: Satimasu
FFXI Server: Valefor
FFXIV Character: Tamorae Fonteil
Swimming I'm not really a big fan of unless there's swimming specific content. If there's nothing you HAVE to swim to do, why spend the development resources to include it?
It's not as easy as some think it is. You have to develop new animations, change the geographic boundaries of every zone where water is present, etc.
Jumping, on the other hand... while it's probably just as difficult to implement as swimming, I would very much like to see. It was always annoying to me in FFXI to have a low fence in front of me and have to run aaaaaall the way around it when it felt like I should be able to just jump over it.
I also wholeheartedly agree with Satimasu - if we can't jump or go around an obstacle, mobs shouldn't be able to either. I hope monster pathing gets a lot of attention in the game.
I have no problem with not jumping, I have a big problem getting stuck behind some stupid rock that is barely higher than my foot. SE games are notorious for it, and is why we want jumping.
And please don't try to bring realism argument into a game. There are so many unreal things it's silly.
I think they should take a few lessons from Oblivion. Even for a single player game it has the right idea.
Hey chief ... Asura is proof enough that SE will let as many assholes that want to play their game. Doesn't stop the fact that you can't jump, you can't swim, because the developers DON'T FUCKING WANT YOU TO. If they want you to jump in FFXIV then you will be able to jump no amount of bitching if going to change that fact. You have two choices, play the fucking game they put in front of you or don't. Choice is your, choice is everyones. If someone gives up on a game because they can't make their avatar jump then boo-fucking-ho it ends up being one less spot where I have to interact with some stuck up prick.
Hey chief...I don't personally care if they add jumping and swimming or not. Doesn't change the fact the post of yours I quoted looked like it was written by an emo 12 year old on a sugar high. Take a fuckin' chill pill. It's a damned game, a bunch of worthless pixels. And yet you'd swear it was your life's work being besmirched with that rant you typed.
See the problem isn't me on this one. You are reading it like I give two shits about anyone opinion in rebuttal to what I say. First, you don't see the sarcasm and took everything I said seriously instead of the tongue-in-cheek way I intended it. I wrote it to make the person who reads it laugh. Did I succeed in the endeavor is up in the air, but I'll guarantee that some people did in fact find it funny.
Honestly the only reason to respond to the post like you did was because it struck a nerve somewhere. So either you are in the camp that really wants this jumping and swimming and I'm infringing on your ideals, or you are/were some overweight fat boy with no athletic ability that is the stereotype of the 40-year-old MMO player in his mothers basement and I'm infringing on your persona. I don't know maybe you like to skip to your hearts content. Wars are fought over those very things. The only other possibility, albeit very unlikely, is that the picture of the kid is yours. To that I respond: What are the fucking odds that the kid whose picture I found by typing "ugly kid" into google images would read these forums and get offended despite the internets already calling him ugly?
Take my post about the new linkshell forming that is in my sig. Newsflash: It isn't real; It is a satirization of endgame linkshells on Asura. It is honestly ment to ridicule the dicks that are on that server that actually do that shit while making everyone else that doesn't quite understand that that crap actually happens laugh. If you happen to look and notice there is at least one post that says that the post was stupid. They either really missed the point or -- the option I'm thinking -- I kinda struck a nerve because he has been in a shell (or guild/clan in another game) that kinda did that shit.
Other than me attacking your ideals or persona I can't see any other reason to even respond let alone calling me an asshole. And just let me point out I'll be the first to say I am an asshole so yeah I kinda agreed with you there. And yeah, didn't respond because I felt I need to defend myself, just responded to point out that Asura is full of more assholes than proctology school (and not sarcastic there ... if you think i'm bad stay away for your own good). If there is something major I'm missing due tell.
BTW, just saying, you should really go read some emo Hannah Montanta fan fiction before you start comparing. I happened to be writing it while still half asleep at work in between doing different tasks. In fact i'm doing it again today and I'm just starting to wake up ... so ... yeah ...
On the topic of acting like a child. I honstly really can't stand all these "suggestions" on these forums. You will get one here and there with would be a vast improvement on FFXI. There is no one here that will ever call this game perfect and there is much room to grow and suggestions like that are good for the community. I personally can't stand the people who are so stuck up that they will say something like "I won't play this game if they don't add ..." whatever. I don't know about you, but I don't read that as "Gee it would be swell if they added ..." I read it as "I want this and they better add it or I'm gonna throw a temper fit and bitch and cry and stomp and not play their stupid game ... " This is just the precursor to the inveitable post once the game comes out saying "This games sucks because they didn't add what I wanted and anyone that plays this game without it is stupid" ... Can't wait.
The developers are the ones who are making the game; that is the game you will get regardless of what anyone wants in the game. FIN. Someone bitches and complains about recast timers not being displayed for you. Their response is along the lines of "I want this in the game and since SE is too stupid to add it I'm gonna download windower and add it myself." SE isn't stupid it isn't there because it is their game and they add what they want. First off are you that lazy you can't either do a quick peek at your desktop clock (assuming you are in windowed mode) or watch (assuming you have a watch) or cell phone (assuming you are living in this decade)? Or you can't estimate the 5 minute recast for Berserk? Or you can't just hit Ctrl+J and just look at the recast timer of the ability? Macro in /recast "Berserk" to your already existing Berserk macro? It is not your right to tamper with the game to make it better and if you can't enjoy a game how it is why the hell are you playing?
As for the topic at hand: Jumping and swimming. Cliffs and water create a natural barrier; these are there so you can't cross them. The developers either want you to not cross because there is nothing on the other side or they have an area on the other side with mobs they don't want you to have easy access to. If you were able to jump you could take the back door into the Boyhada Tree and enter Dragon Aery directly form the Sancuary. You are not supposed to do that. A) It keeps noobs farther away from getting eatten by Fafnir and
It makes it so you have to work to get to Fafnir if you want to camp it (It kinda disgusts that someone's eye just got real wide and when they realized it would be a quick easy way to get to Fafnir and it would be less work).
First off if you could jump, that cliff would be a whole lot higher so you couldn't jump in the back door. Also if you could swim they would make it so KA's spawn was high enough off the lake so you couldn't swim over there. They developers would make the jumps/swimming impossible to get to where you wanted to go so you'd have to do the same challenge you would anyway. So ... it all begs question: What would jumping/swimming then accomplish? You'd be able to jump over fences or creeks? Honestly ... how many fences are there in this game? How many small rocks or other natural barriers are there in this game ... better question: How many small rocks or other natural barriers are there in this game that doesn't take less than a second to walk around anyway? The only things that you'd want to jump over are things that you can't cross now ,and if you had the ability to jump the developers would just make it so you can't jump over it either. By adding swimming/jumping the net accomplishment is nothing other than a shit load of people who are jumping for no freaking reason in town. Congrats.
Honestly, Swimming was one of the funnest aspects for WoW for me. I had become so used to the idea of water just being in the scenery. But then suddenly I was exporing a massive, second world!
Take that concept with Final Fantasy X...it was extremely water-oriented, blitzball, etc. it was somewhat unique for the series, but really worked.
AS this version on FF MMO will be a bit more solo-able, i think water and jumping would be a great addition to the exploration and combat.
BUt it wasn't there in FFXI and i played that for 2 years. I can survive eiterh way.
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I have to admit im the same way, no jumping, no underwater OR invis walls you run into and cant fall 2 feet and im done. I played LoTR till i tried to swim across a river to a few buildings; half way invis wall! Atleast give me a mountain!
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
I can almost understand not being able to swim. Especially the heavy armor classes. There's just no way that a Galka Paladin would stand a chance underwater. Just because this is a different world, that doesn't mean characters don't require things like food and sleep and oxygen to survive. That was one of the silliest things about BlitzBall Final Fantasy X. No breathing apparatus. Underwater battles. Long ones. If you want to just accept that in the world of Spira, people could either hold their breath for REALLY long times or they could breathe underwater, then whatever. It didn't really hurt the story any, it was just unrealistic. I suppose that's the point of video games though, moreover FANTASY video games, to be in a world that is not our own. So in that way it actually contributed somewhat.
My friend brought up an interesting point in reference to D&D. At least in that regard you get penalties, subject to race and skill and armor, to such things as running and jumping and swimming, to the effect that because of some individual player-choices, they simply can't. No fuss. If you choose to be a Galka Paladin you can't swim. You can't jump. And as big and tough as you are, you should consider yourself lucky to be able to sprint.
But jumping is something everyone can do. It just bothers me that I can't jump in FFXI, but then again how high can a person jump? In both DDO and WOW you can jump almost twice as high as your character's height, which is unrealistic to the point of pure silliness. How high you can jump might depend on your character choices, but everyone should be able to jump a couple feet off the ground. Not to climb over that one ledge you have to go all the way around for. Don't be stupid. If they want to prevent you from getting to a certain area they could just as easily add a wall or make the damn cliff a couple feet higher. Yeah, sure, ok; people will then complain that they can't climb ledges - which is not an arguement I'd be willing to take on, ever, except in action games like Drake's Fortune and Tomb Raider where that kind of action is the core of gameplay. And while mixing that genre with Final Fantasy would be interesting, to say the least, it wouldn't be practical.
Basically what I'm saying is this: I don't expect to climb cliffs, but I would certainly like to not have to be stuck in some stupid area because I can't step over a ledge. To use Latheine as an example, falling down those areas that require you to backtrack the long way all around the canyon is understandable, but not having to zig-zag around simple terain where ledges are not even apparent. It's the same concept as the invisible wall. A recurring annoyance that could have been fixed had a little more thought been put into landscaping or character movement. And while it would be nice to take a swim, it would be even nicer to see things like water affect your character's appearance. Instead of making entirely new animations for underwater activity, since both these worlds are set in a more 'primitive', less technologically advanced time, in places where there still exist gods, magic, and land unexplored, you wouldn't be able to breathe underwater, period. Fiends live in water. You can't move very swiftly, let alone engage in combat while submerged. You'd be drowning while being attacked. It would be pointless to even try.
I encourage everyone to stop associating EVERYTHING with XI. Especially right now as we know NOTHING about XIV. It's going to be different, Squre-Enix made that much clear, with the exception of 'similar character models' for those who are attached to their XI characters. It was a minor nuisance that you couldn't do these things in XI but you still played it. Perhaps you will be able to in XIV but if you can't, don't be surprised.
Abraxas [365]
I say that FFXIV should not have jumping.
No FF game before it has had it, unless if was like to jump down a cliff to take a shortcut or something like that.
But another reason is because fighting in FFXI used a lot of strategy, and if there is pvp in this game, then I think it would be nice to have battles similar to the PvE battles that were in FFXI rather than having people jump around each other. It's such an annoying thing to see people just jumping everywhere.
And if I'm correct, back when I played there was a lock on system that let you always face the enemy, so jumping would benefit no one in a pvp aspect.
I just don't see a reason to add it. I loved how the whole game was designed in FFXI, and I didn't need a jumping ability to see any of it. The only thing people use jumping for in MMO's is to be annoyingly hard to hit in PvP and that is about it.
No Final Fantasy has had it before because, as a role-playing game, you simply slayed a random enemy and got stat bonuses to slay the next enemy. That's it, that's the core of the gameplay right there. Doing the footwork for that next bit of cinematics to continue the story. It's an interactive movie, more or less. The point is that just because Final Fantasy hasn't had it before, that's no reason to not allow it. Final Fantasy X-2 was a huge change. People didn't like it, others loved it. Same for XI, and a plethora of other games that have spun off previous titles. XIII is already a three-game series. Some people shun that and the differences presented within them, too. I just can't respect the opinions of xenophobes.
In an MMORPG, as the goal of these types of games today is to imitate life or offer an alternative, it's just a little frustrating when you can't do basic things any normal person would be able to do in life. In PvP the people who jump around and make themselves hard to hit, well they just simply don't know how to play because the truth is that while they're moving their accuracy is reduced and their spells are interrupted. In most games staying still is actually the best way to increase your accuracy and attacks, and some even have a 'tumble' skill that allows you to maneuver around your foe with a roll. It's a good combination of turn-based and twitch-based action. People jumping around might piss you off in PvP, but just standing there as my character auto-attacks while selecting a sequence of premeditated abilities is boring. Having an 'evasion' skill is kinda silly when your character just stands there, evading nothing. I'm likely to fall asleep mid-battle after about an hour. Might as well be playing EVE-saver. EVE:Online is pretty much a screensaver...
Abraxas [365]
I agree that realism is a silly argument to make for games, unless a game is attempting to mimic real life.
There is something to be said for cohesiveness and/or consistency though. Many games fail here.
You can't jump a little rock in your way (you have to go the long way around) but later (using only specally designated spots on the map) you make 10ft jumps between cliffs. So I can make a 10ft. horizontal jump but fail a 1ft vertical jump? That doesn't make sense within the imaginary world. (Leave the real world out of it, thanks.)
You see similar issues with swimming in games. You can move through water only in special circumstances. This can be done well (you can only cross a quickly moving river where it gets very shallow) or poorly (you can swim in one special area but any other water kills you for no known reason.)
While I personally don't care if there's no jumping or swimming I hope that they're consistent in the decision. If I can't jump or swim generally then I can't jump or swim. (Granted in the FF world you they can always toss in magic to allow you to do something one place and not another. The ever (in?)famous, "I don't know how it works, it's magic, just go with it" employed by many fantasy games and books to fill plot/mechanic holes.
Jumping would be okay, but I think they could have a stamina stat to stop people doing it all the time, and to deter people from doing that repeatedly in combat.
Also the guards in towns should one shot all the people standing around on building tops and mailboxes.
Swimming is a pretty good idea but, like another poster said, it just looks dumb if the combat animations are unchanged.
I'm not a big fan of these dancing animations either, unless you're a DNC of course.
Also, I'm bored with mounts - so fed up with horses, tigers, wyverns. Give me trains, submarines, chariots, handgliders, mountain bikes, broomsticks, magic carpets, canoes, skis, balloons, dogsleds, zip-wires, stagecoaches etc.
I would like to see both aspects added to the game but to be honest if they aren't I won't be upset about it any.
I remember when I first logged onto WoW, the people just jumping up and down all the time was about as annoying as it got but I am kind of used to it now as that community is really bad anyway and filled with people like that. I don't think the jumping would be near as bad in FFXIV since the game isn't entirely wrapped around that kind of player base.
Eh I honestly don't care anymore I'm just ready for FFXIV to come out.
In my opinion Jumping and swimming is only for games where it has a purpose, like ratchet and clank or where it will help in combat counter strike. Jumping and swimming should not be there for fun, FFXI is a serious game and thats why you can't jump or swim. FFXI is a hard game and thats why all those wow kiddo types come and whines "this is to hard", "grinding is so last year" ... This is another Final Fantasy game, how many FF games can you jump and/or swim in?
Well it could be that SE would make it so that the character could jump every time it had to, that is seen before ex. FFX-2.
I think a lot of how you could develop an action mmorpg and when I someday have been educated and get to work for a company it's probably to late, there's not many possibilities to make Original games anymore.
There's always I chance for something new and exciting to happen, so I can always wait until tomorrow.
Jumping eh if they do they do,if they dont they dont it really never bothered me in FF11 (my first mmo as well). Swimming though like some said to a decolite island with some pals or some sort of under water missions would be interesting and cool to boot, to me swimming underwater and such adds a bit more emersion to the game. I hope they do a fun job on the fishing as the did in FF11. It was much better then the staggnet Cast/wait for bit/right-click reel in, actually struggling with the fish was fun and made fishing imo worth spending some time doing aspecially if you grabbed a couple of buddies
It may be a more in depth or as you say serious game than most, does not mean people playing FF dont want to have fun as well,hell thats what playing a game is all about. Im serious about playing to an extent but if im not having fun than F that
(in a nice way). not saying that jumping or swimming being or not being in game will ruin my fun of FF14 when it comes out, its more about the content,game play,combat system,community,emerssion, and fun factor (and my fun factor has nothing to do with how hard a game is, the more challenging imo the more fun, who wants to be at max level in 2-3weeks,not me) than 2 small mechanics of a game.
Jumping is something I would have a problem with if you can do it freely. It always annoys me when I see asshats jumping around me on any game (especially FPS games). If jumping is implemented, it shouldn't be freely done, so it would only be like jumping over a fence, rock, etc.
Swimming, on the other hand, does sound cool to implement. However, there has to be in-water fighting mechanics (so your fighting stances aren't the same in water like they are on dry land, that just isn't normal) that makes sense. I could see potential with this. For example, a ninja-like character could steathily swim underwater and breathes through a hidden tube so he can stay submerged. Or a wizard in water would have amped-up water spells. Swimming would affect different classes differently. Some could use it to their advantage and some can't (and some are at a disadvantage, like a tanker class that wears extremely heavy armor would have difficulties fighting and swimming inside water).