With all those assumptions that you point out for us so kindly no wonder you think the industry has failed. Oh and don't throw me in that "us" category that you thought you had to use. It should say "Industry has failed me." Whiney ass person - you need to wait until the games come out and then decide if you like them AFTER you play them.
There are two things that I don't like about future mmo's. 1. There aren't any more expansive worlds. I like the huge worlds that take awhile to travel like vanguard, Anarchy Online, and others. Without the long distances and even with some mostly dead space in between, the world (and by extension, the game) just doesn't feel convincing.
2. A lot of the future "MMO"s don't even seem like mmos. They seem like guild wars. MMO makes have always justified the subscription cost by saying that running a large persistant world costs a lot more than the simple battlenet like interface for starcraft and diabloII. I beleive that. Guild wars bridged the gap between mmo's and diabloII by heavily instancing everything, thereby making everything cheaper to maintain. They did this for free. Its really a bridge between an mmo, and not much different than the simple battlenet from diabloII. These new "mmo"s like SW:TOR, AoC, and Black Prophesy seem to be just as instanced as Guild Wars. And they are going to charge you by the month for it.
edit: this does not apply to all mmos. Bit it does seem to apply to a growing number of them.
While you arent wrong, I think a large reason for the increased usage of instancing is the player demand. The modern MMORPG crowd demands features that will not work in a persistent world, and are also not able to function very well as a community. In order to not upset them, you have to divide them, because concepts like camp checks, mutual respect, persistent bosses, limited loot and so on dont work with the modern audience.
The only way to guarantee a gameplay experience that isnt negatively influenced by other players is to instance it. That way, you keep players away from each other, can reduce the friction.
The modern casual audience seems to take it very poorly if other players can influence their gameplay experience in a way that they dont like.
It was the camp and kill stealing losers that were responsible for the current paradigm shifts, but even back then, most players viewed the phenomena as very unappealing and game ruining. Large guilds capable of blocking raid content by camping spawn points was a huge issue in the early 2000's and the uproar was epic. The past audience wasn't any more forgiving of that kind of behavior than the modern one. The only difference now is that the nerdtastic developers that supported that kind of crap were either fired or are no longer in control, thank God.
Maybe it is time to investigate other options...
Surely there can be something in between or a whole new mechanic that keeps action in the world and prevent the worst of kill-stealing................. though I have to say, if bosses were spread out it (sort of cloned without being exactly the same) it could be a solution..
The sad thing is that the OP feels justified in condemning a ton of games that he clearly hasn't been able to even test yet, or in some cases, knows virtually nothing about.
I try to avoid excessive optimism when hearing about new games, but there are certainly a few titles on the horizon that I am very looking forward to. I certainly think that the post title is out of order in implying that we all share the OP's opinions.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I agree with the OP, all of these upcoming games aren't bringing anything exciting with them besides the typical quest/story grind, a different setting, and plenty of other boring crap we've all seen and played before.
I personally, am not excited either with these upcoming games. I'm praying eventually afterwards someone will come up with something actually worth playing.
OP is right on top. (Xn,....Sn) = WoW where X is the number of "different" fantasy MMO's and Sn is the "different" strategies usd. The problem is that "it" is already being made and republishing the same game system within the same game mechanics and strategies is just reinforcing the "winner" of the subs market. Publishing a Fantasy mmorp these days with one or two "new" features like level with PvP mechanics (War) or people with wings on their backs (Aion) is so easely countered, you can hardly expect people to invest subscription (!) money the next two years in the copycats. So called "polish" has nothing to do with it. The copycat game play explains it all. From Lotro to Aion and include the dozens of others published in between.... The result is a blasting start for the first month of 500K subs (at best) and then ... people don't pay the subs anymore because they already played ... the same game for years. ... And in the end it is Blizzard who racks up the subs. "Please young Jedi (young paladin) go kill me some pigs in space (boars) with that light saber (holy mace) behind that river on that red planet (Outland). With the added option that you "zone" in behind that river and see 2D/3D bordered mountains around you, you can't even cross ... meaning lack of "funding" in programming time and simply ....money. MMO's can be 100 times more than a leveling stats game with tank, spank, heal mechanics.....
I know everyone here has their own favorite (upcoming) mmo. Fine. But hand on heart - disregarding your keen interest in YOUR upcoming favorite mmo - isn't the selection and industry in general rather lackluster? SW:ToR - [Insert whine here] JGE - [Insert bitch here] Aion - [Insert whine here] MO - [Insert bitch here] CO - [Insert whine here] EaRi - [Insert bitch here] DC - [Insert whine here] FE - [Insert bitch here] STO - [Insert whine here] Huxley - [Insert bitch here] Black Prophecy - [Insert whine here]
[Insert more whineing and bitching and crying]
That's about what I got out of it. You're making excuses, picking out little things, and trying to make them seem game ruining. Btw, I love the "Going out on a limb here" comments, because you don't know shit about any of the games.
So what is the point of this post? Are you just trying to say that there isn't an MMO you are looking forward to? OK but how do you want everyone to respond to this? Are you expecting over 1,000,000 MMORPG. COM subscriber to jump on here and agree with you?
Really the market is what it is and instead of posting about unreleased games why don't you find a released one you can stand or read a book.
We would all like to find the dream MMO that takes us to a never never land and fills us with such awe we can only sit and weep at our keyboards but that isn't going to happen.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad." Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
OP is right on top. (Xn,....Sn) = WoW where X is the number of "different" fantasy MMO's and Sn is the "different" strategies usd. The problem is that "it" is already being made and republishing the same game system within the same game mechanics and strategies is just reinforcing the "winner" of the subs market. Publishing a Fantasy mmorp these days with one or two "new" features like level with PvP mechanics (War) or people with wings on their backs (Aion) is so easely countered, you can hardly expect people to invest subscription (!) money the next two years in the copycats. So called "polish" has nothing to do with it. The copycat game play explains it all. From Lotro to Aion and include the dozens of others published in between.... The result is a blasting start for the first month of 500K subs (at best) and then ... people don't pay the subs anymore because they already played ... the same game for years. ... And in the end it is Blizzard who racks up the subs. "Please young Jedi (young paladin) go kill me some pigs in space (boars) with that light saber (holy mace) behind that river on that red planet (Outland). With the added option that you "zone" in behind that river and see 2D/3D bordered mountains around you, you can't even cross ... meaning lack of "funding" in programming time and simply ....money. MMO's can be 100 times more than a leveling stats game with tank, spank, heal mechanics.....
You are absolutly right, why did WoW copy EQ?
Stupid EQ Clones....
*comes to a realization and subs to EQ1 and UO*
Seriously though, while I agree that making a few changes at a time may not be exciting enough for the player base, that's the most logical business model, so that's what we'll get. Donate to your favorite indy game dev (or start your own) if you can't live with this for awhile longer.
To the OP: I've shared your cynicism for awhile about the industry, but isn't it just like us MMO vets to hang on to the genre no matter what? If I were you, I'd definitely give Aion a shot. After playing the beta event last weekend, I've never been more excited about an MMO for years (last ones were FFXI and Pre-CU SWG). I'm counting on it to hold me over, atleast until SW:TOR, FFXIV, and/or Blizzard's new MMO.
Btw, if getting away from the WoW community into a friendly and fun one isn't a good enough reason to play a "slightly different but more polished" game like Aion, I don't know what is.
OP is right on top. (Xn,....Sn) = WoW where X is the number of "different" fantasy MMO's and Sn is the "different" strategies usd. The problem is that "it" is already being made and republishing the same game system within the same game mechanics and strategies is just reinforcing the "winner" of the subs market. Publishing a Fantasy mmorp these days with one or two "new" features like level with PvP mechanics (War) or people with wings on their backs (Aion) is so easely countered, you can hardly expect people to invest subscription (!) money the next two years in the copycats. So called "polish" has nothing to do with it. The copycat game play explains it all. From Lotro to Aion and include the dozens of others published in between.... The result is a blasting start for the first month of 500K subs (at best) and then ... people don't pay the subs anymore because they already played ... the same game for years. ... And in the end it is Blizzard who racks up the subs. "Please young Jedi (young paladin) go kill me some pigs in space (boars) with that light saber (holy mace) behind that river on that red planet (Outland). With the added option that you "zone" in behind that river and see 2D/3D bordered mountains around you, you can't even cross ... meaning lack of "funding" in programming time and simply ....money. MMO's can be 100 times more than a leveling stats game with tank, spank, heal mechanics.....
You are absolutly right, why did WoW copy EQ?
Stupid EQ Clones....
Correct. Problem is ... dozens of little groups played rock 'n roill before Elvis.
But the moment Elvis became the King of Rock 'n Roll (because of the multi billion sales) ... everyone after him just was an Elvis copy , even the former groups.
The trick is to make another genre in the MMO fiield.
Very well put.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad." Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
In the 12 years that MMO's have been out a lot has changed from then, but lately yes the MMO industry has not shown much change but there has been some. From that list you provided, if you can't find anything to like about them, then i suggest you find something else to do until one comes out that does give you what you want.
Just in this last half of the 2008-2009 has it been making a widely more varied account of different MMO's than just a fantasy based game. While Fantasy based MMO's are more popular to create and play, people are looking for something more too. So far i believe the industry has only falied a few players and not the majority out there.
In another ten years as the technology grows more i see MMO's providing more stuff to do but also being more hardware intensive too. Right now you just need to find a MMO or not and just stick with what is working for you.
i will say the mmo industry has failed us when all the games coming out are carbon copies of each other.
Sw:TOR........... while not my cup of tea, they are pushing the status quo on voice acting in the genre, they are actually focusing onthe RPG of mmorpg.... i look forward to seeing how it turns out, despite not really being interested in playing myself.
JGE............ does sound a bit like WAR in space...... but why be emo that an mmo is bringing the joystick back? seriously?
Aion........... hasn't tried to say its new and innovative, just combining some WoW with WAR + wings, and bamo. People playing are liking it though... its a kiddie step away from WoW..... why complain?
MO.......... first off no mmo is ever finished... and 'word on the street'.... sorry but it doesnt mean crap, beta started yesterday... and its stress testing the downlader, updater, and login functions..... if you judge an entire game by a stress test of basic functions... you fail at beta testing.
CO........ it plays like a console game..... please tell me how that is in any way similar to CoH? beacuase you dont see a reason to play, doesnt mean others dont.
EaRi....... no idea what that is
DCUO.......... their ALPHA footage looks lackluster to you...... wow....... just wow. This game plays like a console game, and has good vs evil at launch.
FE............. yes cry about the graphics..... because you know, having a massive poly count in an mmo is a great plan if you want a large open world.....
STO......... you clearly dont follow the dev posts about the game..... are you feeling stupid yet?
Huxley..... I will have to agree with you on...... the next step for counterstrike, then again, dont counterstrike fans deserve a game to move onto?
BP...... havent followed it a ton, didnt initially offer ME what I was looking for. However its different than EvE and different from JGE.... how is that bad.
most of these games are bringing something very different from the EQ/WoW experiance...... if you think every one of these companies failed....... you should take YOUR AWSOME mmo idea.... and go market it...... obviously its leaps and bounds better than whats in development so you should make millions.
You are absolutly right, why did WoW copy EQ? Stupid EQ Clones....
The difference is the jump from EQ to WOW was pretty siginificant and the changes made that type of MMO more enjoyable. Compare that to the jump from WOW to LOTR, WAR or Aion...not so much. In many cases the games were worse, due to all the little things Blizzard can do that other developers fail to accomplish.
When a developer comes out and makes a MMO that takes the same leap Blizzard took in 2004, then we'll have a shift again. Until then, we're just getting inferior copies of WOW with a minor tweak here or there. I wouldn't call them clones, since a clone is the same as the original....although there always seems to be a serious defect in each copy...kind of like WOW clones=)
Well, I dont agree with a lot of what was posted but I am looking forward to STO, Im just afraid its going to let me down. I will probably try AION and CO but as its looking right now, I think my fall is going to be more dedicated to xbox games. I am not a huge console fan even though I own 2, But the fall lineup for me just doesn't look like its going to hook me, so I will probably be racing and jamming out in RB this fall. I really hope that AION and CO are good and worthy of me playing, but I am unsure at this point. Only time will tell.
OK I'll touch on JGE and BP here. 1st off BP from what I seen and read looks more instanced then JGE. Open a menu, pick a mission, and you are whisk away to it instantly... well after a short load screen, but still. What worries me about JGE is Battlespace. The instance PvP zones, your arena like PvP.
I worry that Battlespace is going to kill Open RvR PvP in the contested area, kinda like Scenarios did in WAR.
Why? If people like instance PvP zones more than open PvP, then there is nothing wrong trying to provide to players what they like.
In that case I would advise you to quit mmo's and hanging around in mmo forums. Afterall what's the point for you then? The time you waste hear you could do better stuff.
I know everyone here has their own favorite (upcoming) mmo. Fine. But hand on heart - disregarding your keen interest in YOUR upcoming favorite mmo - isn't the selection and industry in general rather lackluster? SW:ToR - has a huge following due to it being Star Wars and Bioware combined. But this is going to be a shiny co-op game with story that drives your character in a way with no freedom at all. Hardly an mmo. Who care whether it is a MMO by some definition when it can be a good game. And people say there is no innovation/change in the market. It will push SP elements into MMOs. That is new. JGE - is like EVE without all the things that makes EVE great. Player economy won't be the same. It will be heavily instanced. PvP is arena like. Sure it appeal to the joystick crowd, but without depth it looks like meh.. And the casual PvE crowd who wants a space game.
All in all there is little to be excited about. At least not if you are looking for a massive - in-depth game. Well, i am looking just for a GOOD game and it sounds like there are some good games in the list. Certainly TOR has teh potential to be good, or even great.
DCUO - Most anticipated. Wouldn't care if it had EQ 1 models/animations, love the DC universe and have waited long to play IN it. JGE - Built a cockpit for this one. Might be the only MMOG worthwhile until next year. SWTOR, STO - Have a long way to go, don't want to think about them. MO, ER, BP - Like what I see, just waiting for a beta invite. FE, HUXLEY, AION - Pass. Also highly anticipating what's coming from 38 Studios, Red 5 Studios and Carbine Studios.
thanks for the last sentence. copernicus looks interesting especially considering who is involved.
I know everyone here has their own favorite (upcoming) mmo. Fine. But hand on heart - disregarding your keen interest in YOUR upcoming favorite mmo - isn't the selection and industry in general rather lackluster? SW:ToR - has a huge following due to it being Star Wars and Bioware combined. But this is going to be a shiny co-op game with story that drives your character in a way with no freedom at all. Hardly an mmo. JGE - is like EVE without all the things that makes EVE great. Player economy won't be the same. It will be heavily instanced. PvP is arena like. Sure it appeal to the joystick crowd, but without depth it looks like meh.. Aion - probably the most polished game coming out. But despite the many nicer aspects of it it still just look like the same old, same old... MO - Word on the street is that is is bad in a big way. The whole "pay for beta" and "we will releash it unfinished" is pretty bad, I think. Some will be happy - but certainly not a game of perfection coming out. CO - this is just an update (copy paste, says some) of COH. I like the comic book graphics, actually. But again with no villain side from the get go, no real pvp, I see little incentive to play it. Slapping Villains on as an afterthought is just not a good or stable idea. For COH I had already gotten tired of it before COV came out. EaRi - This is the one I really would like to like. On paper it got all the right things. Game videos though show it is still far from being great when it comes to combat. I am still keeping an eye out, though. Hopefully they can do something with this. DC - this is just not going to fly. The game videos released look completely lackluster. And there is nothing in what they have released that looks anything but a boring theme park. It will flunk way more than CO, that at least have a cohesive style (hate it or love it).. FE - Fallen Earth has some cool concepts, sandboxy elements. But the graphics look like something of the mid nineties. Like the first Rainbow 6 game. I can't get excited with something that looks worse than the average games for my iPhone. Also word on the street is pretty, pretty, PRETTY bad... STO - after going in and out of development, I am kinda sceptical. Still to early to call, but I can't see any way that this can work and be true to the IP. With cockpits it will be a mess. With pure spaceships like JGE it will not be Star Trek. I think this is a hit and run attempt to milk the IP, but let's be fair - we have no clue yet. Huxley - pay pr. month to play Counterstrike? Hmm.. I don't think so. From what I have seen it lacks the depth and massiveness to make it an mmo worth paying a monthly fee for. Black Prophecy - JGE-like game. I hope it will have more depth than JGE seems to have. Less instances, more open world, more hardcore pvp. I haven't followed it too much. We shall see..
All in all there is little to be excited about. At least not if you are looking for a massive - in-depth game. I am not looking for real life simulators as some might say - merely an in-depth game that offers everything the technology can bear. We have the chance to have real, large online games where you can build up and tear down worlds - and all we get is games that take us by the hands in their little IP theme parks. OR we get "hardcore" games like Darkfall that essentially just is bad development and bad ideas in the sense that to me (!) there is nothing hardcore about full loot ffa pvp either in an environment stripped of any pve or world content. There is a big lack of intelligent design, great stories built upon massive worlds. I would play EVE which I respect a lot, if it just didn't feel boring to me. I guess the class of 2009 - 2010 will not be a major one to remember...
I AGREE %100 PERCENT! IT'S TIME FOR GAME MAKERS TO WAKE UP TO THE POSSIBLITIES AND KICK START THIS GENRE WITH SOMETHING FRESH. AND GAMERS, IF YOU ARE FED UP WITH THE CURRENT STATE OF GAMES, DON'T BUY THEM! THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO PUT UP WITH CRAP ANY LONGER.
Why? If people like instance PvP zones more than open PvP, then there is nothing wrong trying to provide to players what they like.
Seems the majority of players are not used to any pvp other than instances. I'm not for open pvp in the pve areas, but open pvp zones which are huge and freeflowing to add to the pvp experience instead of boxing it in. Think about it, was it more fun to sit in your room and play cop/robbers , cowboys/indians in your room or outside when you were a kid?
To answer the OP"s question.
Aion - if PvPvE is as similar to Daoc as I'm reading.
Earthrise - I am really looking forward to.
DC Online- Love the artwork, love the characters (GreenLantern owns all) , the game play looks smooth, but group vs group combat is an afterthought. I just think the idea of people running around playing heroes and villains and not having PvP'rs fight back and forth over territory and resources at the core of the game is flawed.
Its funny, people are so happy to complain and moan about their problems, all the while assuming we're all in agreement.
Alright, so the "industry has failed" you. What do you do now? You go out and fix it. Startup your own MMO. Especially now, if you aren't a complete idiot, it wouldn't be all that expensive. You can find qualified people who are looking (sometimes desperate) for work, and you can still get a business loan if you've got good credit. Cut costs by exploiting the community for ideas and concepts that work with your vision, as well as making use of pre-existing solutions. You don't even need facilities in this day and age, and you can exploit free-marketing through online communities such as this without having to worry about expensive advertising campaigns.
However, at the end of the day, it probably won't happen. You'll have some lame excuse that really doesn't apply or is your own fault rather than some outside source. Then you'll be back here, complaining about the industry going down the drain and how you have all the fixes...
Its funny, people are so happy to complain and moan about their problems, all the while assuming we're all in agreement. Alright, so the "industry has failed" you. What do you do now? You go out and fix it. Startup your own MMO. Especially now, if you aren't a complete idiot, it wouldn't be all that expensive. You can find qualified people who are looking (sometimes desperate) for work, and you can still get a business loan if you've got good credit. Cut costs by exploiting the community for ideas and concepts that work with your vision, as well as making use of pre-existing solutions. You don't even need facilities in this day and age, and you can exploit free-marketing through online communities such as this without having to worry about expensive advertising campaigns. However, at the end of the day, it probably won't happen. You'll have some lame excuse that really doesn't apply or is your own fault rather than some outside source. Then you'll be back here, complaining about the industry going down the drain and how you have all the fixes...
I really really hope the highlighted comments were complete sarcasm.
Its funny, people are so happy to complain and moan about their problems, all the while assuming we're all in agreement. Alright, so the "industry has failed" you. What do you do now? You go out and fix it. Startup your own MMO. Especially now, if you aren't a complete idiot, it wouldn't be all that expensive. You can find qualified people who are looking (sometimes desperate) for work, and you can still get a business loan if you've got good credit. Cut costs by exploiting the community for ideas and concepts that work with your vision, as well as making use of pre-existing solutions. You don't even need facilities in this day and age, and you can exploit free-marketing through online communities such as this without having to worry about expensive advertising campaigns. However, at the end of the day, it probably won't happen. You'll have some lame excuse that really doesn't apply or is your own fault rather than some outside source. Then you'll be back here, complaining about the industry going down the drain and how you have all the fixes...
I really really hope the highlighted comments were complete sarcasm.
Eh, the complete idiot part was a bit much. I just get incensed over the people who mis-managed their money. But it wasn't sarcasm. If you've maintained a good credit line and have the drive, you could easily get a startup company going. A collection of like-minded individuals with the skills to develop a MMORPG would be easy to maintain and support in the current environment.
And if you're refering to the loan part, well I've got you beat there. I've actually had to get a loan recently, and had a couple friends go for various types (mostly real estate and/or construction) and gotten money no problems. We all had good credit and our ducks in a row, so banks were more than happy to loan us money.
Comments
With all those assumptions that you point out for us so kindly no wonder you think the industry has failed. Oh and don't throw me in that "us" category that you thought you had to use. It should say "Industry has failed me." Whiney ass person - you need to wait until the games come out and then decide if you like them AFTER you play them.
While you arent wrong, I think a large reason for the increased usage of instancing is the player demand. The modern MMORPG crowd demands features that will not work in a persistent world, and are also not able to function very well as a community. In order to not upset them, you have to divide them, because concepts like camp checks, mutual respect, persistent bosses, limited loot and so on dont work with the modern audience.
The only way to guarantee a gameplay experience that isnt negatively influenced by other players is to instance it. That way, you keep players away from each other, can reduce the friction.
The modern casual audience seems to take it very poorly if other players can influence their gameplay experience in a way that they dont like.
It was the camp and kill stealing losers that were responsible for the current paradigm shifts, but even back then, most players viewed the phenomena as very unappealing and game ruining. Large guilds capable of blocking raid content by camping spawn points was a huge issue in the early 2000's and the uproar was epic. The past audience wasn't any more forgiving of that kind of behavior than the modern one. The only difference now is that the nerdtastic developers that supported that kind of crap were either fired or are no longer in control, thank God.
Maybe it is time to investigate other options...
Surely there can be something in between or a whole new mechanic that keeps action in the world and prevent the worst of kill-stealing................. though I have to say, if bosses were spread out it (sort of cloned without being exactly the same) it could be a solution..
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
____________________________
The sad thing is that the OP feels justified in condemning a ton of games that he clearly hasn't been able to even test yet, or in some cases, knows virtually nothing about.
I try to avoid excessive optimism when hearing about new games, but there are certainly a few titles on the horizon that I am very looking forward to. I certainly think that the post title is out of order in implying that we all share the OP's opinions.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I agree with the OP, all of these upcoming games aren't bringing anything exciting with them besides the typical quest/story grind, a different setting, and plenty of other boring crap we've all seen and played before.
I personally, am not excited either with these upcoming games. I'm praying eventually afterwards someone will come up with something actually worth playing.
You are absolutly right, why did WoW copy EQ?
Stupid EQ Clones....
That's about what I got out of it. You're making excuses, picking out little things, and trying to make them seem game ruining. Btw, I love the "Going out on a limb here" comments, because you don't know shit about any of the games.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
So what is the point of this post? Are you just trying to say that there isn't an MMO you are looking forward to? OK but how do you want everyone to respond to this? Are you expecting over 1,000,000 MMORPG. COM subscriber to jump on here and agree with you?
Really the market is what it is and instead of posting about unreleased games why don't you find a released one you can stand or read a book.
We would all like to find the dream MMO that takes us to a never never land and fills us with such awe we can only sit and weep at our keyboards but that isn't going to happen.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad."
Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
You are absolutly right, why did WoW copy EQ?
Stupid EQ Clones....
*comes to a realization and subs to EQ1 and UO*
Seriously though, while I agree that making a few changes at a time may not be exciting enough for the player base, that's the most logical business model, so that's what we'll get. Donate to your favorite indy game dev (or start your own) if you can't live with this for awhile longer.
To the OP: I've shared your cynicism for awhile about the industry, but isn't it just like us MMO vets to hang on to the genre no matter what? If I were you, I'd definitely give Aion a shot. After playing the beta event last weekend, I've never been more excited about an MMO for years (last ones were FFXI and Pre-CU SWG). I'm counting on it to hold me over, atleast until SW:TOR, FFXIV, and/or Blizzard's new MMO.
Btw, if getting away from the WoW community into a friendly and fun one isn't a good enough reason to play a "slightly different but more polished" game like Aion, I don't know what is.
Industry has failed you. Not "us." Get your pronouns right. kthxbi
--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"
The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
You are absolutly right, why did WoW copy EQ?
Stupid EQ Clones....
Correct. Problem is ... dozens of little groups played rock 'n roill before Elvis.
But the moment Elvis became the King of Rock 'n Roll (because of the multi billion sales) ... everyone after him just was an Elvis copy , even the former groups.
The trick is to make another genre in the MMO fiield.
Very well put.
""But Coyote, you could learn! You only prefer keyboard and mouse because that's all you've ever known!" You might say right before you hug a rainforest and walk in sandals to your drum circle where you're trying to raise group consciousness of ladybugs or whatever it is you dirty goddamn hippies do when you're not busy smoking pot and smelling bad."
Coyote's Howling: Death of the Computer
In the 12 years that MMO's have been out a lot has changed from then, but lately yes the MMO industry has not shown much change but there has been some. From that list you provided, if you can't find anything to like about them, then i suggest you find something else to do until one comes out that does give you what you want.
Just in this last half of the 2008-2009 has it been making a widely more varied account of different MMO's than just a fantasy based game. While Fantasy based MMO's are more popular to create and play, people are looking for something more too. So far i believe the industry has only falied a few players and not the majority out there.
In another ten years as the technology grows more i see MMO's providing more stuff to do but also being more hardware intensive too. Right now you just need to find a MMO or not and just stick with what is working for you.
i will say the mmo industry has failed us when all the games coming out are carbon copies of each other.
Sw:TOR........... while not my cup of tea, they are pushing the status quo on voice acting in the genre, they are actually focusing onthe RPG of mmorpg.... i look forward to seeing how it turns out, despite not really being interested in playing myself.
JGE............ does sound a bit like WAR in space...... but why be emo that an mmo is bringing the joystick back? seriously?
Aion........... hasn't tried to say its new and innovative, just combining some WoW with WAR + wings, and bamo. People playing are liking it though... its a kiddie step away from WoW..... why complain?
MO.......... first off no mmo is ever finished... and 'word on the street'.... sorry but it doesnt mean crap, beta started yesterday... and its stress testing the downlader, updater, and login functions..... if you judge an entire game by a stress test of basic functions... you fail at beta testing.
CO........ it plays like a console game..... please tell me how that is in any way similar to CoH? beacuase you dont see a reason to play, doesnt mean others dont.
EaRi....... no idea what that is
DCUO.......... their ALPHA footage looks lackluster to you...... wow....... just wow. This game plays like a console game, and has good vs evil at launch.
FE............. yes cry about the graphics..... because you know, having a massive poly count in an mmo is a great plan if you want a large open world.....
STO......... you clearly dont follow the dev posts about the game..... are you feeling stupid yet?
Huxley..... I will have to agree with you on...... the next step for counterstrike, then again, dont counterstrike fans deserve a game to move onto?
BP...... havent followed it a ton, didnt initially offer ME what I was looking for. However its different than EvE and different from JGE.... how is that bad.
most of these games are bringing something very different from the EQ/WoW experiance...... if you think every one of these companies failed....... you should take YOUR AWSOME mmo idea.... and go market it...... obviously its leaps and bounds better than whats in development so you should make millions.
The difference is the jump from EQ to WOW was pretty siginificant and the changes made that type of MMO more enjoyable. Compare that to the jump from WOW to LOTR, WAR or Aion...not so much. In many cases the games were worse, due to all the little things Blizzard can do that other developers fail to accomplish.
When a developer comes out and makes a MMO that takes the same leap Blizzard took in 2004, then we'll have a shift again. Until then, we're just getting inferior copies of WOW with a minor tweak here or there. I wouldn't call them clones, since a clone is the same as the original....although there always seems to be a serious defect in each copy...kind of like WOW clones=)
Well, I dont agree with a lot of what was posted but I am looking forward to STO, Im just afraid its going to let me down. I will probably try AION and CO but as its looking right now, I think my fall is going to be more dedicated to xbox games. I am not a huge console fan even though I own 2, But the fall lineup for me just doesn't look like its going to hook me, so I will probably be racing and jamming out in RB this fall. I really hope that AION and CO are good and worthy of me playing, but I am unsure at this point. Only time will tell.
Why? If people like instance PvP zones more than open PvP, then there is nothing wrong trying to provide to players what they like.
In that case I would advise you to quit mmo's and hanging around in mmo forums. Afterall what's the point for you then? The time you waste hear you could do better stuff.
This message was edited on 8/16/15 at 5:30:00 AM
thanks for the last sentence. copernicus looks interesting especially considering who is involved.
I AGREE %100 PERCENT! IT'S TIME FOR GAME MAKERS TO WAKE UP TO THE POSSIBLITIES AND KICK START THIS GENRE WITH SOMETHING FRESH. AND GAMERS, IF YOU ARE FED UP WITH THE CURRENT STATE OF GAMES, DON'T BUY THEM! THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO SEND A CLEAR MESSAGE THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO PUT UP WITH CRAP ANY LONGER.
Seems the majority of players are not used to any pvp other than instances. I'm not for open pvp in the pve areas, but open pvp zones which are huge and freeflowing to add to the pvp experience instead of boxing it in. Think about it, was it more fun to sit in your room and play cop/robbers , cowboys/indians in your room or outside when you were a kid?
To answer the OP"s question.
Aion - if PvPvE is as similar to Daoc as I'm reading.
Earthrise - I am really looking forward to.
DC Online- Love the artwork, love the characters (GreenLantern owns all) , the game play looks smooth, but group vs group combat is an afterthought. I just think the idea of people running around playing heroes and villains and not having PvP'rs fight back and forth over territory and resources at the core of the game is flawed.
Its funny, people are so happy to complain and moan about their problems, all the while assuming we're all in agreement.
Alright, so the "industry has failed" you. What do you do now? You go out and fix it. Startup your own MMO. Especially now, if you aren't a complete idiot, it wouldn't be all that expensive. You can find qualified people who are looking (sometimes desperate) for work, and you can still get a business loan if you've got good credit. Cut costs by exploiting the community for ideas and concepts that work with your vision, as well as making use of pre-existing solutions. You don't even need facilities in this day and age, and you can exploit free-marketing through online communities such as this without having to worry about expensive advertising campaigns.
However, at the end of the day, it probably won't happen. You'll have some lame excuse that really doesn't apply or is your own fault rather than some outside source. Then you'll be back here, complaining about the industry going down the drain and how you have all the fixes...
I really really hope the highlighted comments were complete sarcasm.
Title should be industry has failed ME (ie you), and nothing else.
I really really hope the highlighted comments were complete sarcasm.
Eh, the complete idiot part was a bit much. I just get incensed over the people who mis-managed their money. But it wasn't sarcasm. If you've maintained a good credit line and have the drive, you could easily get a startup company going. A collection of like-minded individuals with the skills to develop a MMORPG would be easy to maintain and support in the current environment.
And if you're refering to the loan part, well I've got you beat there. I've actually had to get a loan recently, and had a couple friends go for various types (mostly real estate and/or construction) and gotten money no problems. We all had good credit and our ducks in a row, so banks were more than happy to loan us money.