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Considering alternatives to Warcraft
For the last several years, I've mainly been playing Warcraft. For the most part I've enjoyed the game.
These are the good parts:
- My guild. I don't want to raid hardcore all evening 7 days a week. 3 days a week is enough for me. My guild has a good atmosphere, and lets me raid when I want at quite a high level (we have cleared Ulduar-10, including 2 hard modes, and have 10 bosses down in Ulduar 25).
- The high level of personal and group performance that are needed for high end raiding. I like the challenge
- I enjoy PvP in battlegrounds. I may get fed up with them being the same old battlegrounds. But if I stop PvPing I seriously miss it.
And these are the parts I don't like about the game:
- I spend far too much time in Ulduar. 10 man. 25 man. Hard modes. Whatever. It's the only place worth raiding with any seriousness nowadays. But it's the same every week.
- The battlegrounds are too samey. Three of them have been around for as long as I've been playing WoW.
- PvP is horribly unbalanced.
- The PuG community is horrible. It used to be better, but nowadays, there just seems to be so much cluelessness and rudeness. Many players seem to lack even the simplest of communication skills.
- There are too many activities I feel obliged to do. For example, VoA every week in 10 and 25 man on both my 80s.
- I can at times be a sucker for achievements. I know chasing achievements for the sake of chasing them is a silly activity - I should be playing to have fun, not for some silly tick in a box. But my personality is such that sometimes I just can't help doing it...
- The way arena dominates PvP. Dueling has never ever interested me in the game. Arena, to me, just feels like an extension of dueling. It's part of my pschology - I've never been happy with just fighting - I have to be fighting for something. E.g. I'm fine with fighting for flags in WSG - that gives me a goal to aim for. But fighting without a goal - just to fight - just doesn't do it for me.
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So overall, I'm just getting bored with the repetition in the current wow end game. There's a lot of grind, and very little variety of play. So I'm curious as to what else is like there.
I like being a member of a good guild.
I like raiding at a high level, but don't want to devote my life to it (3 days a week is fine).
I like PvPing on a fun and casual basis (e.g. wow battlegrounds).
Is there another game I should be looking at? I've looked at several games in the past. These were my impressions:
Guild wars: My first MMO. Horrible community. After playing this, and then trying warcraft, WoW seemed to have so much more depth. There was simply no going back.
EQ2: Seemed broadly similar to WoW, but I never quite got into it. I hated the crafting mini-game. Ridiculously easy and you had to do it so often. The world also fealt very "Generic fantasy 101". It had no real atmosphere or individuality - when you are playing warcraft and walk into Orgrimmar you feel you are walking into an Orcish city. The music and colouring change. The way people address you changes. It has atmosphere. After that, the EQ2 city seemed quite bland.
FFIX: Liked the concept, and the grouping was good. But the interface was horrible, and I hated the way the game logged me out whenever it lost focus (e.g. whenever my firewall decided to tell me about a blocked attempt to port-scan my PC, the game would lose focus and log me out, which was a pain when grouped).
Saga of Ryzom: A lot of interesting concepts. But the actual game play was very simplistic.
LOTRO: Nice graphics. But never really seemed to get into it. It's possible I didn't give this game a fair try.
Granada Espada: Fast paced and an entertaining diversion. But it lacked the depth to really hold me.
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For me, trying out a new MMO at this stage would feel like a big commitment. I'd have to start by trying the various classes - finding one that both appealed to me in terms of game play, and that was in some sense needed or in demand within the game. Then I'd have to level it, but also go through the learning process of getting to know not just how to play that character, but how to play it well. So I'd have to commit quite a lot of time - and for any established game it would be some time before I reached the areas that are interesting (which are generally the areas where most of the player base can be found).
Any suggestions?
Comments
Well, FFXI is actually a very macro-heavy game, meaning that you actually use the keys and not click for anything at all; the game was designed for use with a ps2 system first, and then they tied that into pc and later 360(t also has a windows mode now to avoid those forced d/c's). LOTRO has some fun pvp in the ettenmoors, and the storyline is second-to-none. 2010 will be a great year for the MMO community, as it will mark the end of Wow's supremacy on all fronts (I predict a 4m drop NA and EU subscriptions within that year). Some games due for 2010 are Final Fantasy 14, the new Star Wars mmo, star trek online, All Points Bulletin, Champions Online,and DC Universe. If money is tight I'd suggest you begin cutting back to save up some cash for one of those now. As far as balanced pvpv goes, EVE Online and Guild Wars are really uour only options. FOr PvE that doesn't feel like a grind...well its really hard to say, since the entire point of pve is to repeat similar tasks over and over until you become extreemly skilled at them. Huxley should be good, too, as its going to be a MMOFPS...
If you haven't tried Warhammer, I'd suggest that if you want something that puts you in the role of pvping for an actual reason. From what I've heard PvP there is king, with PvE about equal but not just a mindless grind. I know I'm probably rambling on, but until next year there's really no games that are better on all fronts than WoW; when 2010 hits, there will be.
It's a matter of degree. For example, when I raided back in TBC, we might raid Serpentshrine Cavern one night, Tempest Keep the next night, and Zul Aman on the third night. And if we were successful in our raids we'd get to meet new bosses and enjoy new challenges.
Nowadays, it's Ulduar, Ulduar and Ulduar. And if you beat some new boss in Ulduar 25, then the next boss isn't really a new experience, since you've already faced him in 10 man. And the new gear doesn't allow you to face any new bosses. Instead you get to fight hard modes, which are the same old bosses with a twist.
There's no variety in the game any more.
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Money isn't really an issue. I could easily afford the cash to subscribe to several games - although maybe not the time to play them all seriously.
PvP is just something I like doing for fun every now and again - if there was only PvP in a game then I'd probably get bored with it. I'm a competent PvPer, but my reactions aren't first rate, so I'll never be the best. And I'm long past the age where I feel the need to constantly prove myself. That's why I've tended to avoid the PvP centric games that have come out over the last year or two (WhO, AC).
I'm also not remotely interested in an MMOFPS. When I play FPS games, I tend to suffer from motion sickness after 10 minutes of play. So Huxley is right at the bottom of the list of games I'm looking forward to.
Is there anything out there right now? Maybe Vanguard? Or should I give LOTRO another try?
I can see Aion's coming out soon. But I haven't heard anything that really draws me to it. It just sounds like more of the same, but prettier and with wings.
Maybe FF14 will eventually be what I'm after. Or maybe some game that I currently know nothing nothing about might grab my attention.
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I suggest you give ryzom another try.
Exactly what part of ryzom did you find simplistic? Its actually quite the opposite. Ryzom features one of the most complex harvesting/crafting system in any game i've ever played. The combat system is far from simplistic as well since all combat actions and magic spells are customizable. In fact one of the things that puts a lot of people off to playing ryzom is its complexity.
The choices out there right now are abysmal considering the amount of money that goes into developing these games.
City of heroes is a fun and inovative game for filling a few hours each week. The overall game play is too light though.
Vanguard is worth a look. It could be a really great game if it had a little more support from the company.
I liked the ideas in Ryzom. I just could not get past the poor graphics and general lack of polish the game had though. I wish I could see this game done with a better budget.
I did not like Aion as much as I had hoped I would. The world felt cramped and funneled with a lot of meaningless spawn activity. The anime influence was too strong. PVE wise it plays very similar to WOW.
Good luck and let us know if you find a good one. A lot of folks are waiting for that next great game.
Bad graphics? Are you sure the settings where properly adjusted? You must adjust the settings when you first install it since the default settings are really crappy. Here is a screenshot.
and that was taken before the bloom and square shading filters where in use.
Imho its better graphics than warcraft. I
You could try EVE, PvP is easy to get into not a whole lot of time to spend, can level your skills even when logged off, here is fatcion wars in low sec you can fight in. Only draw back is the total loss of euipment if you don't mind.
Or you could try Lineage 2, fantasy based, many different classes and races to chose from, lvl 1-70 is easy to level after that it slows down some. Economy is not that bad but a bit costly, bots are not as bad either.
I didn't find the act of setting up actions to be particularly difficult. The issue I had was that once you set up your combat actions, then you were pressing the same very small number of buttons over and over again. The system, at least for PvE, was pretty much a case of "find something effective. Do it lots". There wasn't much in the way of interactivity.
On the other hand, I will admit that the crafting system in Ryzom is the best I've seen.
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I've just started downloading the trial for Vanguard. I'll be busy over the next few days, but hopefully I should be able to start playing over the weekend.
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I suggest Aion. I've played all the games you did (and then some), and WoW for a long time, having the same issues.
I played the beta event in Aion and loved it. It doesn't reinvent the MMO genre, but it's very polished and has a very friendly community. PvP isn't an afterthought but one of the game's main focuses (if not THE main focus). It's all around pretty solid, but there are a few things I'll warn you about:
-If you go in treating the leveling like a grind, you won't enjoy yourself. It's much harder to get levels than in WoW, and you'll have an easier time grouping when you can. Just relax, take your time, and socialize and it's fun.
-As I said, they aren't reinventing the genre here. You'll draw some similarities with WoW, but also other games like Lineage 2 and FFXI. It has a few more innovative elements to it, and most of the good things from those games with a few nice extras.
-You can't fly EVERYWHERE. Flight is a big selling point of the game, and it's very fun, but there is a limit to how much you can stay up at once (though it gets longer later), and there are areas you are not allowed to fly, sometimes the limits of a zone, sometimes an entire zone (though it should be noted that you can glide anywhere in the game).
If you don't go into the game with unrealistic expectations, then you'll find it very fun. Try to get into beta, or if you're going to buy it to try anyway, preorder it before the 31st so you can get into the next beta event.
Ascarrar that shot looks better thatn anything I remember so you may be right that I need to adjust the settings. Your shot does show my main complaint though. Tthe character models are strange and look cartoonish. Maybe it is shallow, but it is important to me that my in game avatars look cool. I may give Ryzom another try if I get tired of Vanguard. I also gave WOW a fresh start by forming a regular team that is level ing up together. Any game is more fun if you can get some friends to play with you.
The reason why it looks cartoonish, is cause the avatar is from the Tryker race. There are 4 different player races on atys. Here is another screenie from the newbie island around dusk in the fall . If you do decide to give the free trial a go, shoot me a tell, my avatar name is Zyeir i'll show you around.
I would suggest giving AoC a shot. It has many game elements you enjoy plus a rich and detailed game world to explore. And since you did not try it at launch, you should not have an axe to grind with Funcom either.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Well - a small update.
I've been playing the Vanguard trial for the last few days. Got a level 9 disciple / 9 diplomat, as well as 3 other characters of different classes levelled to 6.
It's a fun game - it feels like what I've been looking for - at least on the PvE side - and I can always get my PvP somewhere else. It looks like it's got a lot to depth to it, and the classes all seem to have some genuine challenges to them. I don't think I managed to get through the first mini dungeon (the earth den) without dying on any of my characters - but by the time I'd completed it I'd definitely learnt something new about playing each one.
So the game has some promise, but I've still got a really serious reservation - the game seems seriously underpopulated - particularly on the only european server. And that's a really big problem in a game that's very heavily based around grouping. I'm worried that I might invest a lot of time and emotion into a game only to find that at some point I'm stuck in LFG for 3 days solid, unable to do anything...
Low population also means that the developers will lack funds - and that means bugs won't be fixed and new content won't be arriving any time soon.
This is frustrating, since the game seems so promising.
Any suggestions?
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I've really been enjoying Runes of Magic. It seems to have a lot of WOW refugees. It's really a good game from what I've seen so far...
Former xFire user... I only wanted a game tracker and messenger, not a screenshot taker, video recording, broadcasting piece of bloatware.
Not one I know much about - but my general instinct is to avoid F2P games, since they often lack depth and the player base is normally considerably less mature.
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On the US servers Zeth has a good population. I think Vanguard is the most underplayed game there is. I have been trying out several games recently and am finding myself choosing to play Vanguard more often as I go. Great PVE - PVP needs lots of work.
But I'm guessing if I played on the US servers then I'd still have problems grouping, due to the time zone differences (I'm playing from the UK).
So it's a matter of trying to pick the lesser of 2 evils...
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