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jiral
Member Posts: 5
One of the things I always disliked about FFXI was the amount of time it took to find a party for anything. You'd stand around with your flag up waiting for someone to need your class.
I almost never saw anyone using the auto-grouping option.
I'm normally not one to compare different MMO's, but I recently played Warhammer Online for quite a while. One of the features that I absolutely loved was the Open Party / Warband feature. You could create a party or warband (alliance) and set it as "Open". Players looking for a group could pull up a window which let them see all open parties or groups in their region (or search outside the region, but that never worked well in WAR).
I'd love to see something like this in FFXIV. It gives those players that don't want to solo, but don't want to spend hours looking for or waiting on a party, the opportunity to play with a group. Players can join the group at any time, come help, and when it's time for them to log or go do something else, they can just drop the party.
It wouldn't work for all situations, and would come with its own problems, but it does provide an additional outlet for those casual players with only a couple of hours of time a day.
Comments
But then that would give elitist Japanese players less excuse not to play with stupid American players!
Really though, I agree, maybe this would help avoid that huge weakness FFXI had. I'm sure SE is considering grouping options important since they are stressing FFXVI is going to be geared more toward casual players.
May I never sit in Jeuno for six hours with a flag up again =/.
What I loved the most about xi's party system was that, if you were a shitty player and didn't listen, who just caused drama for the party, eventually people would know who you are, and not invite you. If you were mega-leet badass, you would be begged to party with within minutes of loggin in.
Even though WAR had that open pty system, My buddies and I hardly ever used it, cuz noobs kept joining us.
I hope IV keeps somthing similar to XI for the party system, it helps weed out the crap players.
The japanese were eliteist with good cause. Average japanese player = knows skill chain, expectaions for class, has food. Average US player has no food, misses skill chains. At least that was my experience.
I definantly agree waiting for parties was terrible. It has its positives and negatives but not many of us have two or three hours a day to waste on waiting for a party. I personally always attributed the issue with finding parties to the lack of healing classes. When I left (before BST, BLU Etc... just original classes) the only class that could truly serve as a healer was WHM. I think it would help solve the issue if SE put a couple healing classes in the game.
The main issue i had with the game was people telling me to always sub whm when i played as RDM. That crap pissed me off, always telling me to be back up healer or sometimes main healer and also refresh them and attack as well. I just hope SE makes the party system managble (spelling) even if you have no healers in your party. Some thing happend when i used to sun my nin on my corsair, instead of rng, which lower my attack power and limited my ability to use ustsumi.
To me that was the main issue with the party system. People being idiots telling me i dont know how to use my job.
I agree. The party system will definately need to be changed in FFXIV.
For example the reason I quit FFXI was because I had sat in Jeuno for a month straight (everyday after work/school) and never got a party invite because I was a SAM and everyone would rather have a DRG....Month straight? REALLY?
They definitely need to make all jobs as equally appealing as possible. If they are sticking with a dual job system, then make all combos have something that doesn't make them a poor choice. I like the way Runes of Magic solved that problem by giving each combo it's own set of "elite" abilities that other combos didn't have and so things like Melee/Mage weren't total outcasts.
As far as finding/forming groups, they definitely need to improve things. Allow people to turn on their LFP flag on one job while playing another. Give more options for filling the critical roles (tank/healer) so you don't have 30 melee needing a party and no healers. Make it easier to get to party locations, so people don't exclude you because you're too far away (I know there were easy ways to get to parties in FFXI, such as the outpost teleporters, but because they weren't straightforward people assumed you didn't know how to use them).
Based on what I've seen from FFXI, Warhammer Online, and WoW, the problem isn't the lack of available healing classes - it's the lack of people PLAYING those healing classes.
If the player base just wants to beat on stuff or blow stuff up, they're not going to play a healer. No amount of available healing classes will make a difference, other than dilute the number of players who are playing THE healing class (WHM or whatever that translates to in XIV).
Ya know everytime I tried to use the autogroup it never worked. Either I wasn't using it right or it was broken when I tried.
The only issue I have with this open party system is in FFXI the game is very stricked with you needing particular party roles. You need a healer, a tank for sure. If they are not avaiable then they party can't happen. I can just see an open party system where you'd get 6 DRKs all using Souleater at once then bitching at SE and disbanding. I have played WAR a little and WoW a little more. Honestly I really like the public quests in WAR I though they were awesome, but it won't translate nearly as well in FFXI. Just think of what campaign is like now in FFXI before the NPCs show up to help out. No one wants to move because no one wants to die since there is no healer around.
Maybe with some natural HP regeration, but i'm not really that much of a fan of that. I mean I am playing the D&D Online: Unlimited beta now and when you are town your magic and health regen. But then it doesn't seem like D&D when you can just walk into town and you can get yoru magic back instead of pretending to rest of 8 hours after casting a spell.
As for the lack of healers that was mentioned. Honstly FFXI is not lacking on healers it is lacking on tanks. WHM is a healer, but so are: RDM SMN SCH DNC ... I have seen PLD and PUP main heal successfully. If the party is waiting for a particular job and won't take anything else that is a problem with the party and not the system. Some of the best parties I have had are ones you'd consider broken otherwise. I mean I main healed as a BLM in the jungle my first time through way back in the day. It worked, it worked well. Most people would see a party with "no healer" as a problem.
yeah, it was definently lacking tanks- Absorption hit tanks for that matter. I remember playing samurai and tanking from 60-65ish on birds in buburimu peninsula with mostly friends in the party with 2 outsiders who were really skeptical. We pulled it off though, with little downtime, and actually got decent exp - taking initiative since there were no tanks around. I was kinda mad at SE when they originally planned sam to be a tank but then just went dd. Oh, and it was really cool getting to tank salvage runs as MNK for a few years.
Ninja tanks were cool, but I thought it was really cheesy paladins ended up subbing ninja to avoid hits. I felt bad for many paladins because they had to eat shit for about 5 years before the class became god. I knew so many plds that quit because they were being neglected and got nothing but the short end of the stick for so long... poor tanks , always underappriciated.
I hope IV has more tank choices and options for this role.
The trick is to make healers and tanks more fun to play.
That was one thing WAR did right is make it so most of the healers had to attack and do damage to get the best heals off. Makes it good for solo and good for party play. Tanks could also equip a 2H when solo and burn through mobs plenty fast, unlike in WoW where it was actually faster to kill mobs in your tank gear with sword+shield then use DPS gear due to the increase in downtime.
With such a focus on weapons and weapon skills (so I believe) and party mechanics that emphasize positioning and tactics against enemy groups rather then single mobs, I think every player is going to be able to fight and fight well enough that a lot of the old tank/heal/dps Trinity dynamic of party play is going to be radically different in FF XIV.
At least, I hope so.
Your opinion is immaterial.
I played WAR as a swordmaster and brought a style from ffxi to make it function sorta like a pld/rdm.
As long as IV lets you keep your character flexible, imaginations will create interesting builds, which hopefully keeps me playing for years. I love being able to have unlimited setups on a toon, think outside the box and create new power house combos - not just cookie cutter gear patterns where the mainstream "sheep" in the game try to govern everyone and everything.
I honestly hope instead of static "classes" or "jobs" you can mix and match a bit to create custom characters.
Still with the same functionality of the job switching, you are never stuck in whatever you choose at character creation.
Obviously you would need restrictions so everyone doesn't end up a Tank Mage who heals, but.... I dunno I'm just really tired of static classes and level grinds.
Your opinion is immaterial.
Well, they've announced that they are doing away with subjobs already. They say it'll be weapon-based progression...you're guess is as good as mine on what that means exactly. Maybe you learn skills through your weapon and then equip those skills however you like (within limitations).
So for parties you'd have people that were currently leveling polearm/great sword so they'd be physical dps, someone leveling rods - magic dps, staves - healer, sword and shield - tank. That's just speculation on my part, I hope it ends up being more complex than that because I don't have much imagination
. I could see that being able to bring back skill chains and magic bursts in some form though.
Atleast people would be less likely to leave you in Jeuno or Whitegate because they didn't like your subjob, or tell you to switch it lol.
Ya know ... this really shouldn't be happening. If you are melee level WAR to 37 and NIN to 37 ... if you are a mage level WHM to 37 (if you are a WHM level BLM to SCH to 37) ... done 95% of your subjobbing.
It is why when I suggest starting jobs to people first playing the game I tell them either WAR or WHM to start with and that depends on if they want to be a mage or a melee. By the time you get one of those jobs to 18-20 you are mostly done with it as a sub and it is quick to just finish it off. There isn't any melee job that /WAR or /NIN is the very minimal expectation and there isn't a mage job that /WHM isn't the minimal expectation.
For instance SAM ... you can have SAM/THF to help with hate control, SAM/RNG for some nice lvl 60+ Sidewinder/Barrage/Meditate action but if you don't happen to have them SAM/WAR is a nice base to play with. RDM ... RDM/DRK situational when you need Chainspell Stun, RDM/NIN when you want to solo ... but RDM/WHM you will be able to help heal and debuff just fine like you are supposed to do.
Ya know ... this really shouldn't be happening. If you are melee level WAR to 37 and NIN to 37 ... if you are a mage level WHM to 37 (if you are a WHM level BLM to SCH to 37) ... done 95% of your subjobbing.
It is why when I suggest starting jobs to people first playing the game I tell them either WAR or WHM to start with and that depends on if they want to be a mage or a melee. By the time you get one of those jobs to 18-20 you are mostly done with it as a sub and it is quick to just finish it off. There isn't any melee job that /WAR or /NIN is the very minimal expectation and there isn't a mage job that /WHM isn't the minimal expectation.
For instance SAM ... you can have SAM/THF to help with hate control, SAM/RNG for some nice lvl 60+ Sidewinder/Barrage/Meditate action but if you don't happen to have them SAM/WAR is a nice base to play with. RDM ... RDM/DRK situational when you need Chainspell Stun, RDM/NIN when you want to solo ... but RDM/WHM you will be able to help heal and debuff just fine like you are supposed to do.
Easy enough when you are playing a main job with a limited number of viable subs, but when you are say, BLU, where you can have about any sub under the sun, it becomes a bit more time consuming to just level them all...and all the viable subs of those subs. You could say it comes with the class, but with my BLU, I tried to include in my note that I could have many different sub jobs, and still I would still sit for hours.
Okay BLU. First off your party invites are limited on BLU not because of your subjob but because the main job has fallen out of favor. But anywho ... subjob. From 1 til 20 you should be using WHM. From 20 til 75 you are most likly using NIN. The only times you would not be using NIN would be situational times when you want to sub THF so you can SATA a weaponskill for some added hate control. You are still using NIN unless something else is needed for the party if you didn't happen to have THF and you were in my party I'd accept NIN or WHM as a sub for BLU. The only time I wouldn't would be if I was desparate for SATA control. If you were sitting in Jeuno as a BLU with sub WHM, NIN , WAR, or DRG (<50), if someone is looking to add a BLU to the party you shouldn't have a problem. Even a subjob of THF or DNC could be acceptable but I'd probably ask you to swtich if the party didn't need it. Anything else I'd look at you funny and pass you up. That being said I'd probably wouldn't be looking at BLU as DD anyway and it would be a backup of a backup choice for invite.
But point again NIN WAR or WHM would be a prefecty acceptable sub for BLU at any level (save the NIN before dual wield). So having any of those subjobs covers your bases and that is true or any job. Just ask if you want a similar anaysis with a different job.
Where did they announce that exactly? I only recall them saying it would be an "expanded job system" whatever that means:
"Komoto: FFXIV’s key word through out its development is Growth. FFXIV will have new in-game systems for character development as well as expanded job system. It is quite different from FFXI."
That's from the E3 Q&A (linky).
My main was a PLD both times I played. The first time it was great (2001 - 2002) the second time I played (2006) I could not get a group as a PLD everyone wanted WAR sub NIN. When I did get a party my job was to take hate from NIN so he could recast. It seemed retarded to me... so I gave up on the game. I am suprised to hear self healing meat shields have a use again.
Okay BLU. First off your party invites are limited on BLU not because of your subjob but because the main job has fallen out of favor. But anywho ... subjob. From 1 til 20 you should be using WHM. From 20 til 75 you are most likly using NIN. The only times you would not be using NIN would be situational times when you want to sub THF so you can SATA a weaponskill for some added hate control. You are still using NIN unless something else is needed for the party if you didn't happen to have THF and you were in my party I'd accept NIN or WHM as a sub for BLU. The only time I wouldn't would be if I was desparate for SATA control. If you were sitting in Jeuno as a BLU with sub WHM, NIN , WAR, or DRG (<50), if someone is looking to add a BLU to the party you shouldn't have a problem. Even a subjob of THF or DNC could be acceptable but I'd probably ask you to swtich if the party didn't need it. Anything else I'd look at you funny and pass you up. That being said I'd probably wouldn't be looking at BLU as DD anyway and it would be a backup of a backup choice for invite.
But point again NIN WAR or WHM would be a prefecty acceptable sub for BLU at any level (save the NIN before dual wield). So having any of those subjobs covers your bases and that is true or any job. Just ask if you want a similar anaysis with a different job.
I don't remember asking for an analysis with that job -_-. I've played the game plenty, I knew what sub jobs to level, and I did. BLU was also pretty popular when I was back in the game (or so it seemed). I'm not the only one complaining about grouping being an issue, plenty have left over it. It works for those with large LS's or plenty of rl friends playing with similar schedules, but for quite a few something else has to happen. I'm just hoping they address it somewhat in ffxiv.
Where did they announce that exactly? I only recall them saying it would be an "expanded job system" whatever that means:
"Komoto: FFXIV’s key word through out its development is Growth. FFXIV will have new in-game systems for character development as well as expanded job system. It is quite different from FFXI."
That's from the E3 Q&A (linky).
Okay, I couldn't find where I read that on google. I remember it being one of the "FFXIV: What We Know" sites. I suppose you can disregard that for now.
I did find this, but it seems partially speculative based on the press conferences:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Job_System_%28FFXIV%29
If the new advancement system doesn't allow a standard leveling format, I don't think there could be subjobs as they are implemented now in ffxi. Maybe they'll keep them in but redefine how players use them somehow. Sorry, I'll keep looking for that article.
I hope mages can melee in parties, rather than conserve MP.
I hope I can sub any class i want without "gimping"
I hope I can use any weapon I want in the game.
I hope I can play a Taru War/ranger with a great sword and still be qualified for tough content.
I'm sure that Square Enix won't go as far as to do those things, but it will be interesting to see what they plan on doing. I just can't imagine a little taru mage swinging a greatsword. Please Square Enix give us some more information lol.. you are killing us with the suspense
Where did they announce that exactly? I only recall them saying it would be an "expanded job system" whatever that means:
"Komoto: FFXIV’s key word through out its development is Growth. FFXIV will have new in-game systems for character development as well as expanded job system. It is quite different from FFXI."
That's from the E3 Q&A (linky).
Okay, I couldn't find where I read that on google. I remember it being one of the "FFXIV: What We Know" sites. I suppose you can disregard that for now.
I did find this, but it seems partially speculative based on the press conferences:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Job_System_%28FFXIV%29
If the new advancement system doesn't allow a standard leveling format, I don't think there could be subjobs as they are implemented now in ffxi. Maybe they'll keep them in but redefine how players use them somehow. Sorry, I'll keep looking for that article.
Not a problem. Please repost it if you find it. In regard to the job system, perhaps you don't even have a specific "job" anymore but rather a role. So maybe depending on what you specialize in, you can customize your "job" anyway you want it. Say you want to learn sword mastery and elemental magic with some healing. So you devote whatever time you need to up those skills to become a melee/mage/healer hybrid job. Or maybe you pick a primary, secondary, and tertiary mastery with different skill caps for each. So you max out at 100 sword, 50 elemental magic, and 25 healing magic, for instance.
Where did they announce that exactly? I only recall them saying it would be an "expanded job system" whatever that means:
"Komoto: FFXIV’s key word through out its development is Growth. FFXIV will have new in-game systems for character development as well as expanded job system. It is quite different from FFXI."
That's from the E3 Q&A (linky).
Okay, I couldn't find where I read that on google. I remember it being one of the "FFXIV: What We Know" sites. I suppose you can disregard that for now.
I did find this, but it seems partially speculative based on the press conferences:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Job_System_%28FFXIV%29
If the new advancement system doesn't allow a standard leveling format, I don't think there could be subjobs as they are implemented now in ffxi. Maybe they'll keep them in but redefine how players use them somehow. Sorry, I'll keep looking for that article.
Not a problem. Please repost it if you find it. In regard to the job system, perhaps you don't even have a specific "job" anymore but rather a role. So maybe depending on what you specialize in, you can customize your "job" anyway you want it. Say you want to learn sword mastery and elemental magic with some healing. So you devote whatever time you need to up those skills to become a melee/mage/healer hybrid job. Or maybe you pick a primary, secondary, and tertiary mastery with different skill caps for each. So you max out at 100 sword, 50 elemental magic, and 25 healing magic, for instance.
I do not believe that they are doing away with the subjob system. I have an interview here, where did not say specifically "subjobs" but they did say that they liked that portion of FFXI and that they planned on expanding on it. I believe it will be similar to the leveling tree that you had in FFX (picture is below). WIth that said, I wouldnt say subjobs are gone just displayed differently with the new job and leveling system. Here is the interview, it starts at 1:02 where starts to talk a little about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjcqEeFx5nc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eorzeapedia.com%2F&feature=player_embedded
Here is a short description of what the Sphere grid does.....
Sphere Grid
As with previous titles in the series, players are given the opportunity to develop and improve their characters by defeating enemies and acquiring items, though the traditional experience point system was replaced by a new system called the "Sphere Grid". Instead of characters gaining pre-determined statistic bonuses for their attributes after leveling up, each character gains a "sphere level" after collecting enough ability points (AP). Sphere levels allow players to move around the Sphere Grid, a predetermined grid of interconnected nodes consisting of various statistic and ability bonuses. Items called "spheres" are applied to these nodes, unlocking its function for the selected character.[4]
The Sphere Grid system also allows players to fully customize characters in contrast to their intended battle roles, such as turning the White Mage Yuna into a physical powerhouse and the swordsman Auron into a healer. The International and PAL versions of the game include an optional "Expert" version of the Sphere Grid; in these versions, all of the characters start in the middle of the grid and may follow whichever path the player chooses. As a trade-off, the Expert grid has fewer nodes in total, thus decreasing the total statistic upgrades available during the game.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_X#Sphere_Grid
I believe instead of Experience, you get AP or LP (level points). Either way I think this is the direction they are going. This is what I imagined when I heard then stating that they were going away from the traditional system and taking out exp.