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Warhammer Europe: 27th July 2009 - Europe Stand Together
ultraroo
Member Posts: 15
Hi all.
This is a very simple event in reaction to the rollercoaster that Mythic have put WAR players on since launch. Most MMOs have peaks and troughs regarding game balance but WAR has become a bit like a ride at Alton Towers. As such, we had some discussions on the server I play on (Europe, Karak-Norn), some meetings and decided to raise an event. I realise that most of you will have no idea who I am. In brief, I am one of the chaps that semi-regularly organises the players on our server for server-wide events, of anything up to 350 players a go. We have a nice community and enjoy lively forum banter on our various community forums.
The goal of this event is not to scream and rant at Mythic, I believe this would be self-defeating. What we are aiming to do is gain a critical mass of players on each European server to calmly gather and register solidarity about the way that we, the gaming community, feel about the way MMO companies handle the involvement of those same communities in the ongoing evolution of each game. There is a lot of lip service regarding player involvement, feedback and concerns, but most MMO companies seem to feel that shoving a Community Manager on the frontlines is sufficient while they take a lackadaisical approach to getting a game into some kind of semblence of balance. While balance issues can be frustrating in a PvE oriented game, in a PvP(RvR in this case) game they become much more crucial and the patching/balancing process requires a lot more care. Many of the problems that reach the live environment in WAR indicate there are huge flaws in Mythic's development and quality control processes.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this, I'll paste below the details for any that may want to join in and for those that may be interested in watching to see what, if any, outcome results from this mass gathering.
--------------------------------
To Order and Destruction on all European servers:
Monday 27th July, 7pm UK time / 8pm Server time:
Europe Stand Together!
Every Destruction player log a Magus on into Inevitable City.
Every Order player log a Shadow Warrior on into Altdorf.
Stand together for 30 minutes.
Mythic have bungled every step of the way since the release of WAR. They are in many ways no worse or better than any other average MMO provider but we do not pay for mediocrity. We pay for excellence and Mythic’s deployment of the much loved Warhammer intellectual property has not been a crowning achievement in the history of either Games Workshop or Electronic Arts.
Mythic make vague promises which are never delivered and they have appalling patching processes where they hurry versions through on the test servers without proper testing. Then we are subjected to all kinds of problems such as lag and shockingly unplayable gameplay conditions. They produce sloppy programming which inflicts misery on elements of the community for up to months at a time before they get around to doing ill-considered fixes where they tend to break nearly as much as they fix. All the while they dangle the carrot of ‘better times coming / good stuff on the way’ to appease people while their developers scratch their heads and hope.
There is not one thing that Mythic have implemented in the short history of this MMO that has been deployed to live servers and ‘just worked’. Every single update has been marred by shoddy quality control and embaressing bugs that should have been caught way before hitting production environments.
Mythic need to make their processes more transparent to us, the paying customers and show they are directly including our feedback in updates, not just bugs they missed because of poor internal quality procedures.
Mythic need to produce better scheduled reports of progress. RELIABLE information on what is going through the change process. Not just pipe dreams from developers who floated an idea at a meeting which hasn’t been tested but they felt it was cool to waffle about on a video blog.
Mythic need to show they are responding to player concerns directly. Rolling out comedians with silly sunglasses just doesn’t cut it any more.
Mythic need to increase the quality of their output drastically.
Mythic need to remove the knee-jerk balancing mentality prevelant in every patch to date. This is probably one of their biggest WAR crimes.
Electronic Arts need to show they are on the case and support the community. Because it is the community on which any MMO stands or falls and thus EA’s income. Mythic’s behaviour is killing the community. It is being eroded day by day as the players lose faith in Mythic to ever deliver.
If enough of us stand together before Mythic completely blow all confidence in Warhammer’s MMO incarnation we will send a clear message to this and every other MMO provider out there that we the gaming community want those who intend to create and provide MMO services that we will not just be fobbed off with vague promises, vague hints of future fixes if we just put up with the mediocre performance for now. We pay to play now. We pay for YOU, the MMO provider to deliver now.
We want and we have a right to expect.
I propose that every player in every guild in every alliance on every server in Europe stands together.
Most MMO providers listen to those that scream the loudest.
We’re not going to scream at you, Mythic. We’re not going to rant about how poorly you have handled this community and its ongoing concerns.
We’re going to stand quietly for 30 minutes, all of us…
…With the gaming media of the entire world watching.
Roo Stercogburn
Comments
I like the idea with a peaceful demostration.
I wish you guys the best with it and I hope you will be heard.
like former reply, I like the idea, not playing War myself, but hope you get the attention the game seems to need according to what I have read, nothing from own exp. as War was simply not the game for me.
side-note, for those going (incl.OP) would be nice to make screenshots or movie clips and post them here.
Good luck.
Game developers/publishers should be held accountable for their actions or lack of, just as any other industry is.
Mythic is a shining example of everything wrong with the game industry. They evidently do not fear anything and ignore the people who pay their bills.
I hope this goes well for you as it is very much needed on every front and not just the European side.
All the best bro, and yap a screenshot will be nice...
That being said, we know that unless they redesign the game from the ground up, the problems will never be solve....
RIP Orc Choppa
The best protest you can give would be to cancel your subs and stop paying Mythic for a substandard product.
GW2 the future of MMO gaming
UO Shardrun flashback in 3...2...1....
If you guys really want to get their attention you should all cancel your subs for a day and leave exit feedback...
Agreed, the ultimate response is to vote with your subscriptions and many are doing this.
However, our goal is not just to send a message to Mythic but to all MMO providers regarding quality of service, or lack thereof. Warhammer just happens to be the current game we are playing.
We are campaigning over the weekend to build support for this. We hope to raise into awareness problems that afflict many MMOs by focusing on this MMO because it is the one that we have of course been currently playing. Left to their own devices on its current path, Mythic will successfuly kill off WAR all by themselves. For me personally, its very tedious switching MMOs and trying out some of the wannabes that come along and finding out all the same mistakes are being perpetuated.
Lets get the message across. Lets make some positive changes for *all* MMOs.
Lets do this.
Thanks for the responses guys, all feedback is appreciated.
Roo Stercogburn
As well intentioned as this demonstration is, and as powerful a moment as it may create, I do not believe it will have any significant effect.
What we know for a fact is that Mythic doesn't listen to the players, and doesn't look at WAR with an eye for depth or even, at this point, recognize how individual class abilities play their part in how the game is balanced. If they did, then the last patch would have had different results. Like dropping a rock off a cliff and seeing it hit the ground, an action (player feedback) has taken place, and Mythic has reacted (not taken it into consideration). Unless there is a concrete reason to believe that player feedback had become somehow worthier of consideration in Mythic's eyes, it is not rational to believe that a new form of player feedback will successfully influence Mythic's decision.
And why should Mythic care about this demonstration? Letting disgruntled players vent and feel like they're doing something meaningful, helps keep them in the game, and any protest can be ignored like every other player complaint or comment. For the short this, this is a financially viable strategy. The players are still paying, afterall, which is all that ultimately matters. And EA? Counting on them to force Mythic's compliance is a pipe dream at best -- they care about bottom lines and little else; they won't even take notice that there is a situation until it impacts the viability of their investment.
If WAR players really want to hit Mythic were it hurts and have a chance to enact real change, then quit the game. Take all the guild willing to demonstrate and unsubscribe. If Mythic's income dries to a trickle, then they'll HAVE to take action or lose their jobs, which is a far greater motivation than an easily ignored show of player solidarity, and once that loss hits EA, you are far more likely to perk their disapproval. Age of Conan didn't see an iota of improvement (and while it has a long way to go, it has improved since it's condition shortly after launch) before sufficient subscribers left that Gaute Godager 'resigned' and new leadership was implemented.
Simply put, without leverage all player concerns are mere requests, and a request can be ignored or enacted at the developers' whim. Only by offering a concrete incentive for reform, one that makes it Mythic's best interest to pay heed, can any hope of real results be had. It is thus my advice that players simply unsubscribe: it is the most effective means to convince Mythic to reform, and it is the only real way players can hope to influence the developers or publisher.
Ultimately I agree, the only place to hit a company is in the wallet. Unfortunately by that time there will be nobody playing. At the core of Warhammer Online is a good game and this lurching between MMOs where companies make the same mistakes is becoming very tedious. It would be more beneficial to us, as a gaming community, to raise into awareness the self-nulifying business practices of MMO providers.
Going by activity on the server I play on Warhammer is haemmoraging players and not just the mouthy forum posters. Several players are predicting that in Europe we'll be down to one English-speaking server by the end of the year and this is how it also seems to me.
Yeh, it might not get noticed by Mythic, even less so by EA. It might get noticed by the next generation of MMO provider. That would still be a win, in my book.
I am realistic about any short term response. We're heading into territory that is very uncomfortable for an MMO provider and they will likely decide their best response is no response. That way people have to guess their reaction and they can hedge as they have always done. Zero response would be somewhat Ironic; that lack of response is partly what this is about.
Hec, maybe nobody will turn up. Or maybe everyone will and we'll get some cool video of the freakycool-looking Magus characters on their floating disc in their thousands. Worst case scenario? We get 30 minutes of chilling out with a lot of fellow players and having a bit of a giggle.
Wether or not the event tonight succeeds in terms of turn-out and/or response it has got a lot of people (within the Warhammer segment of the MMO community anyway) talking in a way very rarely engaged. In some cases it has polarised opinion but for the most part the response has been positive, even if people are sceptical about Mythic-EA mending their ways.
Roo Stercogburn
Sorry, but it's a waste of time.
YOU are trying to help a company that exist thanks to YOU and YOUR money?
I mean, wow.
I understand you like the game (don't know why though, but it's not the problem here anyway) but really, unsub for a day or two, write a topic on EU forums or something.
The only effect of this... manifestation will be server crash, knowing quality of GOA servers and game's engine, lol.
Don't want to bash you or something, im trying to understand, but really, if you're sticking to the game knowing the company and the game itself sucks (low quality patches, goa, lags, whatever) then change your mindset - it's mythic's problem, not yours. If they suck, let them die - you're prolonging the inevitable.
Regards, and good luck anyway.
I support this idea. There is every reason to be cynical about what it might accomplish but it's something and that's more then nothing, hell just making this post and putting the idea out there, not even the idea of the event but the idea that gamers are serious enough to try and oganize something to make an impression on game developers, that's something. It's gotta start somewhere.
I very recently un-subbed from WAR, reluctanty, but you can only roll so many alts on so many different servers waiting for something to work out. I played the game for 9months, I had fun with it despite all the obvious problems. I would love to re-sub, if there was a good reason to, it might be a year but if Mythic or whoever gets to work it could still be a very decent game and who knows this event thing might help that happen.
Gamesworkshop have created one of the best gaming IP's in world, bar none. This is pretty much recognized around the world as Warhammer is produced in over 10 languages.
What Mythic has unfortunately done is take a wonderful IP and trashed it in the digital medium.
While I like your idea of a peaceful rally, nothing is gonna save this game at this point. At first when I heard MJ was fired and that the reigns were in Biowares hands I was hoping for something amazing to happen. Reality has pressed into my frontal lobe, and nothing is gonna save Warhammer Online.
As far as I can tell the only thing saving Warhammer Online, is it's death and rebirth sometime in the future. Meaning I truly hope the best for the IP and the worst for this game. It needs to go away and then the IP should be redone in the digital medium and given it's proper respect. Hopefully perhaps after SWtOR boiware's mmos studios can obtain more time with the IP rights and truly make a Warhammer Online that is the quality of what Gamesworkshop does on the TT and paper mediums.
Sic Luceat Lux
I agree it's more effective to vote with your wallets...but getting people to do that is also harder 'for the sake of protest' (since they do actually like teh game, quitting seems kinda counter-productive)...I guess having a protest might be easier to persuade people to turn up.
Hey Ultraroo
who should i contact ingame? I've just logged into your server with a magus.
I agree with the general idea of your post, but I don't think it hits the truth of the matter.
It isn't as if Mythic doesn't know the players are not happy. They have the cancellation figures and I think they are all aware of how drastic the situation is. They know players are not happy.
I would even go so far as to say they are aware of most of the issues with the game. Many of the dev postings I have seen point directly (even when spoken in slippery PR speak) at the problems of the game. CC, lag/crash, lack of client responsiveness, etc etc etc. They know the issues and even tried to fix some of them in a decent time frame for a game this size in this shape. Everything up to the point of their attempts to fix the game seem to be well intentioned and responsive to players desires. The results just don't seem to be their however.
I think the real problem is that Mythic doesn't have what is required to resolve the issues. Be it manpower, talent, money, time, a combination everything or just something else. Whatever the roadblock is, an organized protest is not going to resolve it. The problem doesn't seem to be that mythic doesn't know about the problems or simply doesn't care. It seems that they just can't resolve them.
I recorded the event which did actually take place. Watch the vid here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9rLirGPsaw
While I think the idea was kind of neat, I think you're purpose will be better served if the next event you create
is mass cancellation day. Let Mythic know what day and time peopel will be cancelling. Preferrably a Friday morning for mythic employees so you can stir up a ton of frenzy and panic, causing the CEO's to work the weekend as well.
If everyone sent an ingame feedback report to the CSR's that they were quitting at the same time and then hit cancel, filled out feedback at the same time, I'm sure Mythic's ceo's and developer's asses would pucker big time. You might even get a few of the shitty arrogant developers canned in the process if you ALL call them out.
Not that I play anymore because I"ve already given up on mythic after multiple chances in DaoC and War.
Impressive. I am just afraid someone who is ignorant, or doesnt want to know the truth is going to marginalize even such a meeting as "its just 200 or so, we got 200k players! Its nothing!", as you always can in MMOs. Virtually no movement is ever big enough if the designers/lead designers/project leaders dont want to acknowledge it as big enough.
The Big Black Book of Marketing pretty much tells these companies to remain quiet and not react. By doing that, they usually get a lot of players to sub for another month or two because they are waiting for a reaction, hoping against hope that things change. By not talking you create fertile grounds for the players still believing in your game to spread the "they havent said its bad, so it isnt bad" mantra which you ll see on virtually every game forum of a niche game, often by players who either are invested deeply, or just came on, rarely by the "middle ground".
Also, if you remain quiet you avoid bad press. As soon as you openly state something as coming from the designers, developers, publishers or anyone else whose voice carries some weight, you ll get dozens if not hundreds of game sites, even print magazines, to pick it up and put it out there. That is one of the very few ways through which people who arent yet your players, and arent overly interested in staying abreast of the news cycle on online games, will read about your game: You dont want that to be bad news, otherwise you may lose the trickle of new players (who will probably pay for a few months waiting for your silence to end all over again) and thus money.
Not talking sounds like the logical choice to get most money short-term. Anything beyond short-term isnt of particular interest to those making decisions right now.
Well good luck to all the EU WAR players still around, and NA as well.
In my opinion the game is done for. They've had more than enough time to fix the main issues with the game. I'm not really sure how this protest is supposed to cause Mythic to listen. It should have been obvious by the mass amount of cancellations already. They had their chance, but I really think it's too late.
Some very fun frivolity throughout the 30 minute duration of the event.
Video here:
Big thanks to everyone that supported this
Roo Stercogburn
I wasn't there but good show.
Back during pre-CU SWG players held a bunch of sit in demonstrations as well.
Look where it got them.
Im sure you'll be just as successful.
Yes, it's nice to see the organization and unity, but it is sad to think it will get them anywhere.
During ToA there were many more complaints and negative feedbacks comments/reports from many more players than the ones who gathered in this video and Mythic stilll did not fix the issues until 1/2 their playerbase quit.
That is the only thing that is going to work. Anything else is just money helping them drag the game along and recouping investment.