MMORPG Combat: Semi-Turned Based Combat(Auto Attack) vs Real Time Combat

Eyrothath

Lately I have played many, many online games.. I have completely dodged my X-Box 360 in order to do online gaming, but I have always been a fan of online games. I played UO and still do play UO for ten years now. I played have played World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EVE, Darkfall, Neocron, Lord of the Rings Online and currently I am playing City of Villains along with Darkfall Online. But I am not here to say which game is better, but rather, compare their combat, so in the end, one game will have a superior combat system for when I am done..

I really enjoyed PvP in MMO's for a brief period of time, but something hit me and I got bored of the combat, Age of Conan claimed to have a real time combat system, but I realized that no MMO's really have a real time combat system due to network lag, for some reason, it just would not work.. I decided that I was bored of MMO combat when I first played Elder Scrolls (When I got my X-Box) this was my first game, I also got it for the PC and I must say, I believed from that moment forth that a Real Time Combat system as seen in Elder Scrolls, would allow for much more fun in PvP.. This is what has been missing in PvP combat for sometime, there is no skill involved, it's all on a matter of who has the best items, the current combat systems which flood the market are semi-based turn systems where you target, click and watch, and spam a few of your abilities (while still watching) it does not seem all to real or imserive.. And then recently I got the chance to play Darkall, I love the combat in this game, even though I dislike the game itself for many reasons, I must give them compliments on their combat system. You can manually block and dodge spells, you need to aim your spell and aim your arrows, everything seems real and imserive, which is how combat should be, and how a combat should be in PVP oriented MMORPG's such as Warhammer.. Trust me, if Warhammer had real time combat, I would play it, I also like the fact that there is no floating name tags above players, without nametags, you can hide more from your opponents..

The way Age of Conan does their combat, in fact, I much prefer this one for a MMORPG, is not actual real time combat, but as you use f1, f2, f3 they are abilities with no cooldown so your character instantly attacks, and each swing is a different direction, and you do not need to target something, the first thing I noticed was that without targeting something in Age of Conan, you cannot injure it with your abilities, but you do not need to target something in order to use them at random, this to me felt like real time combat, but really it is the same semi-turned based system in disguise..  This style of combat is also called Auto Attack, as your character automatically attacks the target instead of the player having to do it manually..

Now I have noticed this trend in many new MMO's, it is not talked about as much as it should, but many PvP oriented games are aiming toward real time such as DC Universe, Champions Online, Mortal Online, Earthrise, Fallen Earth and some more games are following the path that Darkfall Online tried to take.. I hope that in the future, real time combat will be the norm in a PvP features MMO, two things lack in online games, Freedom and Realism, these two go hand in hand and will shape future MMO's and having experienced many online games, I much prefer real time combat over auto attack, anyday..

 

 

Eyrothath

I speak of FPS combat when I say Real Time Combat, it is the same thing really, FPS = Real Time, with or without the first person view, I rather like Third Person over First Person however.. 

LynxJSA

AOC is not in any way turn based. You are confusing timers with turns.

djazzy

I am confused by your description of AoC's combat. It doesn't have auto attack. Auto attack to me means you can attack something without having to do any action other than initiating the attack. In AoC if you don't perform an action you will not attack. It also has directional attack, which means you don't have to target something in order to damage it. I prefer AoC's combat personally but you have to manage it better than most mmo's.

Eyrothath

Either way it is still Auto Attack, it is not very fun or engaging.. Game with a timer = Auto Attack, turned based, you still have Auto Attack.. I got bored of the final fantasy games and were never into them, I felt like watching a movie, without playing the game at all.. 

 

FPS combat is the way to go..

Eyrothath

Originally posted by arenasb


I am confused by your description of AoC's combat. It doesn't have auto attack. Auto attack to me means you can attack something without having to do any action other than initiating the attack. In AoC if you don't perform an action you will not attack. It also has directional attack, which means you don't have to target something in order to damage it. I prefer AoC's combat personally but you have to manage it better than most mmo's.

 You still have to target something in order to attack.. Why can't you just damage it by using your abilities, without clicking on it first?

djazzy

Originally posted by Eyrothath

Originally posted by arenasb


I am confused by your description of AoC's combat. It doesn't have auto attack. Auto attack to me means you can attack something without having to do any action other than initiating the attack. In AoC if you don't perform an action you will not attack. It also has directional attack, which means you don't have to target something in order to damage it. I prefer AoC's combat personally but you have to manage it better than most mmo's.

 You still have to target something in order to attack.. Why can't you just damage it by using your abilities, without clicking on it first?

 

No you don't. You don't have to click on your target to damage it. If the target is in the cone of your attacks you'll damage it.

LynxJSA

Originally posted by Eyrothath

Originally posted by arenasb


I am confused by your description of AoC's combat. It doesn't have auto attack. Auto attack to me means you can attack something without having to do any action other than initiating the attack. In AoC if you don't perform an action you will not attack. It also has directional attack, which means you don't have to target something in order to damage it. I prefer AoC's combat personally but you have to manage it better than most mmo's.

 You still have to target something in order to attack.. Why can't you just damage it by using your abilities, without clicking on it first?

 

Not everyone likes twitch gaming. Most RPG players rather the game was reliant on the characters stats to determine hit/miss/dodge/etc. For the people that prefer it was based on player skill there's Darkfall, MO, and FPS games.

Eyrothath

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by Eyrothath

Originally posted by arenasb


I am confused by your description of AoC's combat. It doesn't have auto attack. Auto attack to me means you can attack something without having to do any action other than initiating the attack. In AoC if you don't perform an action you will not attack. It also has directional attack, which means you don't have to target something in order to damage it. I prefer AoC's combat personally but you have to manage it better than most mmo's.

 You still have to target something in order to attack.. Why can't you just damage it by using your abilities, without clicking on it first?

 

No you don't. You don't have to click on your target to damage it. If the target is in the cone of your attacks you'll damage it.

 

That is not how it was when I played Age of Conan.. They must have improved their combat.

Eyrothath

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Eyrothath

Originally posted by arenasb


I am confused by your description of AoC's combat. It doesn't have auto attack. Auto attack to me means you can attack something without having to do any action other than initiating the attack. In AoC if you don't perform an action you will not attack. It also has directional attack, which means you don't have to target something in order to damage it. I prefer AoC's combat personally but you have to manage it better than most mmo's.

 You still have to target something in order to attack.. Why can't you just damage it by using your abilities, without clicking on it first?

 

Not everyone likes twitch gaming. Most RPG players rather the game was reliant on the characters stats to determine hit/miss/dodge/etc. For the people that prefer it was based on player skill there's Darkfall, MO, and FPS games.

 

"Not everyone likes twitch gaming." You have no right to say that.. You have around 70 MMO's to choose from without twitched based combat.. I have ONE game(Darkfall), and it is a shitstorm.. The rest of the MMO's are not out yet.. Not EVERYONE likes the dice-roll combat either.. It is obvious though that MOST of you do.

Hyanmen

I've always seen RPG's as games that require strategy rather than fast reflexes, thus I prefer turn based combat. I'd rather see an MMOFPS with real time combat since that's the main method of combat in that genre than an action MMORPG.

Torik

Originally posted by LynxJSA


AOC is not in any way turn based. You are confusing timers with turns.

 

And FPS combat is also timer based.  The difference is simply in the granulity of the timers.

Torik

Originally posted by Eyrothath

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by Eyrothath

Originally posted by arenasb


I am confused by your description of AoC's combat. It doesn't have auto attack. Auto attack to me means you can attack something without having to do any action other than initiating the attack. In AoC if you don't perform an action you will not attack. It also has directional attack, which means you don't have to target something in order to damage it. I prefer AoC's combat personally but you have to manage it better than most mmo's.

 You still have to target something in order to attack.. Why can't you just damage it by using your abilities, without clicking on it first?

 

No you don't. You don't have to click on your target to damage it. If the target is in the cone of your attacks you'll damage it.

 

That is not how it was when I played Age of Conan.. They must have improved their combat.

I played AoC from open beta to two months after release and I remember tha it always worked like that.  When fighting multiple mobs I would try to position myself so my wide attacks would hit multiples. 

LynxJSA

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by LynxJSA


AOC is not in any way turn based. You are confusing timers with turns.

 

And FPS combat is also timer based.  The difference is simply in the granulity of the timers.

 

Correct.

Axehilt

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Originally posted by Eyrothath
"Not everyone likes twitch gaming." You have no right to say that.

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He has the right to state facts all he wants.

I like twitch games, but it's a fact not everyone else.

Axehilt

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Originally posted by LynxJSA
Originally posted by Torik
Originally posted by LynxJSA AOC is not in any way turn based. You are confusing timers with turns.

 
And FPS combat is also timer based.  The difference is simply in the granulity of the timers.

---

 
Correct.

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/end of thread

Ilvaldyr

My ideal combat method would be ARPG like Mass Effect; where the player aims and the resultant accuracy is dependant/affected by the abilities of the character .. but that kind of combat is way better for ranged (i.e. guns/magic) than it is for melee combat, which tends to be rather hack-and-slash in the FPS' I've played.

I can't say that I'm a fan of auto-attack, but otherwise I don't find MMO combat too bad; global cooldowns equalise the playing field a bit in terms of latency and preventing ability spamfests.

Vrazule

There are already First Person Shooters and Console games that cater to real time combat.  MMOs and RPGs exist to give us an alternative to that play style.  I don't see the point of hybridizing them and producing bastard games that have less over-all appeal to their supposed target audiences.

Eyrothath

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by LynxJSA


AOC is not in any way turn based. You are confusing timers with turns.

 

And FPS combat is also timer based.  The difference is simply in the granulity of the timers.

 

 

Wait, I am currently playing a shooter called FALLOUT 3 and let me tell you, that game is not timer based in anyway whatsoever!

Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Eyrothath 
Wait, I am currently playing a shooter called FALLOUT 3 and let me tell you, that game is not timer based in anyway whatsoever!

F3 is no different than most games; it still has timers. You can't fire a shotgun ten times instantaneously, for example.

Eyrothath

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Eyrothath 
Wait, I am currently playing a shooter called FALLOUT 3 and let me tell you, that game is not timer based in anyway whatsoever!

F3 is no different than most games; it still has timers. You can't fire a shotgun ten times instantaneously, for example.

 

So wait......

 

Describe all the combat systems in these 4 games..

 

Huxley:

 

Elder Scrolls:

 

The Legend of Dragon:

 

Aion:

 

Of these four games, I would rather play Huxley and Elder Scrolls.. One of my favorite games is Mount & Blade.

 

Josher

Besdies a BASE attack going off every X number of seconds, MMOs are getting closer and closer to active twitchy combat.  Cooldowns and timers add a feeling of strategy and most importantly solve latency issues.  No MMO can have GOOD twitchy combat without heavy use of instances.  Eventually the lag beats ruins the day.  Twitchy combat and lag don't mix and only result in frustration.  Its not like developers don't wan to do it.  They simply can't without sacrificing large open zones.  Player numbers have to be limited to insure decent latency.  Most people still enjoy a psuedo turn based system, so developers will make what people like AND whats possible.  All these MMO Shooters coming out are heavily, HEAVILY instanced.  Just COD4 or CS with a graphical city to run around in to buy/sell stuff before warping off to an instanced battleground map with limited players thats litteraly no different from any online FPS.  So what exactly are we gaining here over COD4, besides a monthly fee, a pointless city to chat in and a level grind of course?

Speaking of F3, a realtime VATS system would be very cool.  Instead of the game pausing, everything goes on as usual , BUT you can choose body parts to shoot that activate desired CC effects like blinding, slows, disarms, trips, stuns, ect. 

CactusmanX

I really disdain the go play a FPS or console game attitude, it just makes you look like an idiot who opposes any idea that doesn't neatly fit into your preconceived notion of how games should be.

Also people jump to conclusions too much.  Such as typical RPG combat is tactical whereas twitch is all about fast reflexes or twitch equals FPS.  Neither are true actually, the only real difference between typical RPG combat and twitch is the degree to which you control your character's actions, where RPG combat usually has dodge, to hit and crit rolls along with auto attack, twitch doesn't, you directly control what you do, that is it pretty much, the speed and focus on tactics are all relative to the individual game.