Merxion spoke his mind. I've kept my mouth shut for a long time but I won't when I see great people taking rage from folks who have no place else to fling it. I hired Merxion, I'm the guy he mentioned when he indicated a friend said "hey remember we always wanted to work on an mmo?". I've known him since the day Everquest opened. There was no person more honest, more straight forward and more wanting success than Merx at CME. I say that from my perspective of course but he was, and is, a better person than I am and he survived at CME longer than my threshold would allow me to. And for someone like me, to have brought him in, and his family, only for a year later for it to fall apart.. there's also no small amount of guilt. He wasn't the only person I hired, he wasn't the only person who's life wasn't changed radically by the experience. I hired them, I gave them the spiel about CME, SGW, the company, the funding, what a great chance it was. Those words came out of my mouth and now, what are they worth? He keeps telling me it was for the better, but one of his best talents is finding the silver lining.
For some of us, yes, the writing was on the wall but we refused to see it. Affecting change would've been impossible anyway, but you'd have to be there to know that. Blame us if you want to, we're just as angry and upset. Some of us could've quit sooner I suppose, maybe. But honestly, when you're staring at a dream in the face, and the chance, even if it was a shrinking chance, to launch something truly different, to be a part of something unique like SGW was meant to be... well, you hang on as long as you can. In CME's case it wasn't just finances, yes, you hung on as long as your moral ethics could allow you too. For some of us, it was our job to protect others from some of the drama that seems public today but was behind closed doors then. Some of us could answer a lot of questions asked here, but honestly the only answers we have is our perspective and perspective is one thing there is ample supply of. Maybe some day, after the wounds heal, some of us will talk, if anyone cares besides us then. In time, SGW will be a faded memory and there will be a new target of internet MMO rage.
If any employee current or past, walks away from CME having gotten rich, or for the better, they weren't and won't be the rank and file. For many it ruined lives, destroyed savings, cost marriages. You think you as fans you are suffering? You can't comprehend what some people have gone through and are still going through. And that's weak consolation I know. The best many can hope for is that someone else will take them on, show them how things get done right and move on with their lives. Some may never be able to get past it however. Some may never get another chance. For some, CME may be the closest they ever got to a dream and that is probably one of the saddest realities.
To the investors in the company, the amazing fan base, to MGM... I wish I could offer an apology that would make a difference. I really do. All I can say is we tried. Most of the employees didn't just try, they gave it their all. Maybe if we had 40 more people like Merx we would've done better, who knows. I wish I could've changed things, I wish SGW was about ready to ship (hell when I came on board it was supposed to ship in '08). I wish I was playing SGW with everyone else right now, running my archaeologist through missions, pointing at the screen and saying "I helped with that!". But I'm not. Like Merx, I'm just another gamer who had a dream, and had a chance, and something went horribly wrong along the way. And it couldn't have happened to a nicer person, or people than many of those I knew at CME.
And trust me, for those employees who are still working at CME, or left, no one knows heart ache better. Mistakes were made, huge mistakes. Mistakes that wouldn't be worth going into. For every bonehead decision, for every ego that clashed, there was also powerful intent to make a a great game. The handful that are left at CME by the way are some of the most talented individuals I've ever known. I tip my hat to them.
Seriously Agri, you hate Stargate Worlds, the company and whatever/whoever is involved. Leave.
This isn't Khestral's playground here. This is a private site with much different rules. Arguing your points or whatever is one thing. Telling people to leave because you apparently can't handle what they type just earns you a few chuckles, nothing more.
And what is there not to hate, really? The company is a joke run by a bigger joke. Investors have been ripped off. Some devs have been ripped off. There are devs who have been hurt by joining this fiasco and they are the only ones that I'd consider worth anything and feel sorry for. There are also devs who are just as guilty as Whiting, if not by action, then by inaction. They deserve whatever they get.
Your correct it isn't a Khestral playground, however people directing any and all hate at him just because hes only one of few actually replying / talking to people is down right rude.
And to quote the CoC for MMORPG.com's forums :
" Flaming and Personal Attacks
* MMORPG.com does not tolerate personal attacks on other posters. Please keep your arguments and posts on topic, and argue the ideas and topics of the thread instead of insulting other users.
Example: Telling someone that you disagree with their argument is tolerated, while calling someone inappropriate names is not. "
As for the "hate" part, it seems everyone is directing it at the WHOLE company. As the 2 Ex-CME members have stated, and as we should all know by now. Just because you work for someone, it does not automatically mean they are responsible or directly accountable for their peers descisions / demands / rules.
The people who messed up whatever and wherever are the ones hate should be directed at, IF you seriously have to to do it; NOT the people beneath.
-------------------------------
Now as this convo will never end I'll leave that as my last post on this matter, you can reply with all the counter-arguements you wish; I won't be dragged into a quote pyramid extravanganza.
Vestas that was perhaps the first honest public post made by a Developer, I sense your feelings of regret and guilt towards your friends and disappointment concerning SGW and what it could of/ should of been. I thankyou for not given a list of bologne excuses or trying to play the eternal optimist but stating it how it is. You don't want to talk publicly about what went on so you say so instead of not mentioning it.
As for what happened, you had the best intentions and saw a thriving company about to put out a potential blockbuster of an MMORPG, as did I and many others. There never was a reason to doubt that, and I'd have got my friends on board if that was their dream to.
I often question why the people that are still there are, if they haven't been paid for four months and can see this dream will remain just that why would you help maintain the smoke screen? After witnessing what you've described and not been paid for four months I'd be flipping burgers for a living rather than dreaming for nothing at CME, hell after work I can dream!
However I wish you good fortune and hope you find something elsewhere and can maybe help out your friends at some point in the future, may the force be with you!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Tylantia: "I won't be dragged into a quote pyramid extravanganza."
Now am I the only one that sees the irony in that?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I once worked for a dishonest company so I am in a great position to ask these hard questions. In my case, my company stole a $25,000 overpayment from one of the largest, most cherished organizations that help people in down times. I asked the CEO direct questions about the incident, when he said they were keeping the money, I immediately turned in my resignation. Call it ethics, something people lack currently due to the almighty buck.
Nobody picked on Heath or made personal attacks like those that they did with the blizzard mount poster. If I wanted to attack Heath personally, I would make comments about how he said he “learned more in 1 year at CME than his 4 years in school.” Well, DOH – he has an on-line degree. Of course, he would learn more! However, I did not; I only asked direct, tough questions. The same questions a future employer is going to wonder.
Regarding working for dishonest people: MMOGULS was born in October/November, 2008? It was immediately debated whether it was a legit operation. Therefore, when you stick around for 8-9 months after illegal activity is unearthed, you are working for a dishonest employer, and in the end working for free to boot!
At the director level, you are privy to a lot of information (as Vestas mentioned). You are required to not only shield your employees from the BS, but also protect them. There is additional drama/shit that went down at CME that I have been made aware of but cannot repeat because lack of fact checking. However, I do know that people at the director level (and above) were aware.
So by sticking around as long as you did, you gave the workers underneath you false hope that everything was okay, or that it would work it’s self out in ‘two weeks’ (standing joke at CME about possibility of getting funding or pay).
You all state you could not change what was happening at CME. That is a huge management flaw, especially when your director level employees cannot make a difference. Who is to say if they get 8 Million that, it would not happen again? I bet Tim, Rod, Joe, etc. have all that money pre-spent helping their friend’s companies with work.
You mention that you could not get a direct answer as to who birthed MMOGULS or who knew about it. Was Tim, Joe or Rod asked directly? Was their answer “I don’t know, I’ll get back to you on that” Did you hold them accountable? If you answer is no, then you helped rip off the shareholders (even the MMOGULS people) and ruin the lives of the employees involved just as much as Gary did. You let it happen, you turned a blind eye and you did nothing.
Side Note: I noticed that the newest MMOGULS web sites are lacking stargate worlds logos, etc. Do they know the end is near too?
Comments
Merxion spoke his mind. I've kept my mouth shut for a long time but I won't when I see great people taking rage from folks who have no place else to fling it. I hired Merxion, I'm the guy he mentioned when he indicated a friend said "hey remember we always wanted to work on an mmo?". I've known him since the day Everquest opened. There was no person more honest, more straight forward and more wanting success than Merx at CME. I say that from my perspective of course but he was, and is, a better person than I am and he survived at CME longer than my threshold would allow me to. And for someone like me, to have brought him in, and his family, only for a year later for it to fall apart.. there's also no small amount of guilt. He wasn't the only person I hired, he wasn't the only person who's life wasn't changed radically by the experience. I hired them, I gave them the spiel about CME, SGW, the company, the funding, what a great chance it was. Those words came out of my mouth and now, what are they worth? He keeps telling me it was for the better, but one of his best talents is finding the silver lining.
For some of us, yes, the writing was on the wall but we refused to see it. Affecting change would've been impossible anyway, but you'd have to be there to know that. Blame us if you want to, we're just as angry and upset. Some of us could've quit sooner I suppose, maybe. But honestly, when you're staring at a dream in the face, and the chance, even if it was a shrinking chance, to launch something truly different, to be a part of something unique like SGW was meant to be... well, you hang on as long as you can. In CME's case it wasn't just finances, yes, you hung on as long as your moral ethics could allow you too. For some of us, it was our job to protect others from some of the drama that seems public today but was behind closed doors then. Some of us could answer a lot of questions asked here, but honestly the only answers we have is our perspective and perspective is one thing there is ample supply of. Maybe some day, after the wounds heal, some of us will talk, if anyone cares besides us then. In time, SGW will be a faded memory and there will be a new target of internet MMO rage.
If any employee current or past, walks away from CME having gotten rich, or for the better, they weren't and won't be the rank and file. For many it ruined lives, destroyed savings, cost marriages. You think you as fans you are suffering? You can't comprehend what some people have gone through and are still going through. And that's weak consolation I know. The best many can hope for is that someone else will take them on, show them how things get done right and move on with their lives. Some may never be able to get past it however. Some may never get another chance. For some, CME may be the closest they ever got to a dream and that is probably one of the saddest realities.
To the investors in the company, the amazing fan base, to MGM... I wish I could offer an apology that would make a difference. I really do. All I can say is we tried. Most of the employees didn't just try, they gave it their all. Maybe if we had 40 more people like Merx we would've done better, who knows. I wish I could've changed things, I wish SGW was about ready to ship (hell when I came on board it was supposed to ship in '08). I wish I was playing SGW with everyone else right now, running my archaeologist through missions, pointing at the screen and saying "I helped with that!". But I'm not. Like Merx, I'm just another gamer who had a dream, and had a chance, and something went horribly wrong along the way. And it couldn't have happened to a nicer person, or people than many of those I knew at CME.
And trust me, for those employees who are still working at CME, or left, no one knows heart ache better. Mistakes were made, huge mistakes. Mistakes that wouldn't be worth going into. For every bonehead decision, for every ego that clashed, there was also powerful intent to make a a great game. The handful that are left at CME by the way are some of the most talented individuals I've ever known. I tip my hat to them.
CME-SegFault
Former Director of IT
RIP SGW
This isn't Khestral's playground here. This is a private site with much different rules. Arguing your points or whatever is one thing. Telling people to leave because you apparently can't handle what they type just earns you a few chuckles, nothing more.
And what is there not to hate, really? The company is a joke run by a bigger joke. Investors have been ripped off. Some devs have been ripped off. There are devs who have been hurt by joining this fiasco and they are the only ones that I'd consider worth anything and feel sorry for. There are also devs who are just as guilty as Whiting, if not by action, then by inaction. They deserve whatever they get.
Your correct it isn't a Khestral playground, however people directing any and all hate at him just because hes only one of few actually replying / talking to people is down right rude.
And to quote the CoC for MMORPG.com's forums :
" Flaming and Personal Attacks
* MMORPG.com does not tolerate personal attacks on other posters. Please keep your arguments and posts on topic, and argue the ideas and topics of the thread instead of insulting other users.
Example: Telling someone that you disagree with their argument is tolerated, while calling someone inappropriate names is not. "
As for the "hate" part, it seems everyone is directing it at the WHOLE company. As the 2 Ex-CME members have stated, and as we should all know by now. Just because you work for someone, it does not automatically mean they are responsible or directly accountable for their peers descisions / demands / rules.
The people who messed up whatever and wherever are the ones hate should be directed at, IF you seriously have to to do it; NOT the people beneath.
-------------------------------
Now as this convo will never end I'll leave that as my last post on this matter, you can reply with all the counter-arguements you wish; I won't be dragged into a quote pyramid extravanganza.
# SW:TOR : Tylantia, Sivis, Aeonis, Aehris, Xaehrin, Vhyce, Tehren, Suvis
# Ryzom : Kasumi / Secor / Anuihlm
# City of Heroes/Villains : @Tylantia
# Age of Empires Online : Tylantia (Abydos server)
# Stargate Worlds : Kadael
# WoW : Tylantia, Siinaar, Sivis, Moofangles, Aehr, Cehr, Chaizen, Ocep, Tzias
Vestas that was perhaps the first honest public post made by a Developer, I sense your feelings of regret and guilt towards your friends and disappointment concerning SGW and what it could of/ should of been. I thankyou for not given a list of bologne excuses or trying to play the eternal optimist but stating it how it is. You don't want to talk publicly about what went on so you say so instead of not mentioning it.
As for what happened, you had the best intentions and saw a thriving company about to put out a potential blockbuster of an MMORPG, as did I and many others. There never was a reason to doubt that, and I'd have got my friends on board if that was their dream to.
I often question why the people that are still there are, if they haven't been paid for four months and can see this dream will remain just that why would you help maintain the smoke screen? After witnessing what you've described and not been paid for four months I'd be flipping burgers for a living rather than dreaming for nothing at CME, hell after work I can dream!
However I wish you good fortune and hope you find something elsewhere and can maybe help out your friends at some point in the future, may the force be with you!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Tylantia: "I won't be dragged into a quote pyramid extravanganza."
Now am I the only one that sees the irony in that?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I once worked for a dishonest company so I am in a great position to ask these hard questions. In my case, my company stole a $25,000 overpayment from one of the largest, most cherished organizations that help people in down times. I asked the CEO direct questions about the incident, when he said they were keeping the money, I immediately turned in my resignation. Call it ethics, something people lack currently due to the almighty buck.
Nobody picked on Heath or made personal attacks like those that they did with the blizzard mount poster. If I wanted to attack Heath personally, I would make comments about how he said he “learned more in 1 year at CME than his 4 years in school.” Well, DOH – he has an on-line degree. Of course, he would learn more! However, I did not; I only asked direct, tough questions. The same questions a future employer is going to wonder.
Regarding working for dishonest people: MMOGULS was born in October/November, 2008? It was immediately debated whether it was a legit operation. Therefore, when you stick around for 8-9 months after illegal activity is unearthed, you are working for a dishonest employer, and in the end working for free to boot!
At the director level, you are privy to a lot of information (as Vestas mentioned). You are required to not only shield your employees from the BS, but also protect them. There is additional drama/shit that went down at CME that I have been made aware of but cannot repeat because lack of fact checking. However, I do know that people at the director level (and above) were aware.
So by sticking around as long as you did, you gave the workers underneath you false hope that everything was okay, or that it would work it’s self out in ‘two weeks’ (standing joke at CME about possibility of getting funding or pay).
You all state you could not change what was happening at CME. That is a huge management flaw, especially when your director level employees cannot make a difference. Who is to say if they get 8 Million that, it would not happen again? I bet Tim, Rod, Joe, etc. have all that money pre-spent helping their friend’s companies with work.
You mention that you could not get a direct answer as to who birthed MMOGULS or who knew about it. Was Tim, Joe or Rod asked directly? Was their answer “I don’t know, I’ll get back to you on that” Did you hold them accountable? If you answer is no, then you helped rip off the shareholders (even the MMOGULS people) and ruin the lives of the employees involved just as much as Gary did. You let it happen, you turned a blind eye and you did nothing.
Side Note: I noticed that the newest MMOGULS web sites are lacking stargate worlds logos, etc. Do they know the end is near too?
I have faith, signed up for beta!!!!