Agricola1 would kill me in a Troll Fight. He is good at what he does - I am a novice and clearly don't know what I am doing. I kneel down to his superiority.
So, if I'm correct, the total SGW budget would be USD 70M+, right ?
70mil total.
that 20 and the 25 or so they spent on SGW = 40-50mill on SGW. they pissed away/pocketed 20-25 mil on opening up ghost studios that also never released a product.
So... that's puzzling and the question would be: How come that you did waste all these $$$ whereas the initial decision was not to go for the development of a game engine , 'cause it's always expensive to develop if you start from scratch?
To me, three possible answers:
1- Scenario 1: these figures are simply wrong, for some reason: marketing comes to mind of course, always good to announce you spent millions of bucks to develop a game. Your goal however is to release a proper game.
2- Scenario 2: investors scam, planned from the very beginning: in this case, you also need to be very good in your marketing (to sell vapor to your investors). Difference with Scenario 1 being the goal, which is not to release a game. (The scenario you seem to think as being the most correct one)
3- Scenario 3: Big technical issue, a classic scenario which could be:
Year0:
Marketing : Here we are! We've got a top-class licence: we will release the best MMO game ever !
Tech : Cool! Give me the specs
M: Here they are: a big world and millions of people on the same server
T: Well... give me the specs, not the wish list, thanks
M: Told you, these are the specs: a big world and millions of people on the same server. And yes, with no lag!
T: Ah... hmmmmm, well, we will do our best: give me 4 years, let's say 30 skilled people and the appropriate budget.
M: No way!!! You've got one year, 10 developers and 10% of the total budget: we've already spent millions in viral-marketing the product. Come on, you only have to develop it now, this IS YOUR JOB!!! (at this point, the scenario fits with scenario1: good to announce a big budget, but not spend it on actual development)
T: You already communicated on the game? Oh... gosh...Ok, you will never get a game featuring millions of people on the same server, since it's impossible. We will do our best, anyway.
Year1:
Marketing: You' re late!!! We 've got to release the game NOW!
Tech: No way, we are still working on it...
M: We have already announced a beta date for next week.
T: What???
M: You are late!!! DO YOUR JOB
T: We cannot go for a beta and cannot release the game soon. The game needs at least 6 additional months of work.
M: Impossible!!! We do not have the money to pay for such a development!
T: So... people developing the game will leave
M: We don't care! Listen to me, nobody is indispensable: we will find other devs, FREE ones!!! Don't you know everybody wants to develop on our top-class licence?!
Year2:
Marketing bot: The game will feature: a big world and millions of people on the same server with no lag!!!
Tech: Impossible. All skilled members of the tech team have left anyway.
MB: The game will feature: a big world and millions of people on the same server with no lag!!! The game will...
...
GOTO Year0 (at this point, the scenario fits with scenario2: second round table, even if the concept cannot work)
Agricola1 would kill me in a Troll Fight. He is good at what he does - I am a novice and clearly don't know what I am doing. I kneel down to his superiority.
I thank you for paying me my due respect and do reward you with 100 internet points to spend on whatever anti troll hardware you wish. As for Whiting (/spit) it seems we agree he ****ed up on a titanic scale never seen in the MMORPG industry before. Also I agree he didn't screw himself over on purpose, it was due to absoloute incompitency on every single level from Whiting to the pizza delivery boy. The evidence is clear, my beef is that he tries to hide it all and starts up a pyramid scheme and attempts to force that on gamers such as myself. All in a vain attempt to patch up the crap he blew apart in the first place, he's got unhappy investors claiming he ripped them off because no large VC company would touch this project. Gary is an entreprenuer with a long history of failed companies and businesses, he doesn't have anything that could be called a success.
This man never had it in him to make a success out of CME, CME was merely a record of exactly what not to do when developing an MMORPG. Also it will never hit the shelves as Bigworld and Unreal have already stated that the marriage of the two engines is either near impossible or just impossible. Gary is a failed businessman and is now running a pyramid scheme which itself is failing. I just want Gary to **** off and die and leave the MMORPG industry alone, as with every other business he's ever tried his hand at it's failed, FACT!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
[...] This man never had it in him to make a success out of CME, CME was merely a record of exactly what not to do when developing an MMORPG. Also it will never hit the shelves as Bigworld and Unreal have already stated that the marriage of the two engines is either near impossible or just impossible. Gary is a failed businessman and is now running a pyramid scheme which itself is failing. I just want Gary to **** off and die and leave the MMORPG industry alone, as with every other business he's ever tried his hand at it's failed, FACT!
I personally don't know about Gary Whiting, nor about CME, but it is always very sad to see developers failing that way, especially with such budgets... ah! reminds me of the old times when it was possible to develop a game (I mean, a real game) for a few hundred thousand bucks, and it was even possible to make money with it.
Sigh... Anyway, CME is not the only company making use of the combination of BigWorld and Unreal engine to develop an MMO game: 38 Studios does too. I quote an interesting other article:
Schilling started 38 Studios to focus on a main passion and create MMOGs with amazing talent as his baseball career winds down. The eclectic and veteran talented crew over at 38 Studios have been hard at work for over a year now on the super-secret title which utilizes the BigWorld and Unreal technologies.
[...] This man never had it in him to make a success out of CME, CME was merely a record of exactly what not to do when developing an MMORPG. Also it will never hit the shelves as Bigworld and Unreal have already stated that the marriage of the two engines is either near impossible or just impossible. Gary is a failed businessman and is now running a pyramid scheme which itself is failing. I just want Gary to **** off and die and leave the MMORPG industry alone, as with every other business he's ever tried his hand at it's failed, FACT!
I personally don't know about Gary Whiting, nor about CME, but it is always very sad to see developers failing that way, especially with such budgets... ah! reminds me of the old times when it was possible to develop a game (I mean, a real game) for a few hundred thousand bucks, and it was even possible to make money with it.
Sigh... Anyway, CME is not the only company making use of the combination of BigWorld and Unreal engine to develop an MMO game: 38 Studios does too. I quote an interesting other article:
Schilling started 38 Studios to focus on a main passion and create MMOGs with amazing talent as his baseball career winds down. The eclectic and veteran talented crew over at 38 Studios have been hard at work for over a year now on the super-secret title which utilizes the BigWorld and Unreal technologies.
That's interesting, have they actually released anything? Because if they did they'd be the first to do it and could no doubt lend CME a hand!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Well, I used to since... I was one of Dark and Light's developer. And that's why I can tell you that there is no reason to compare SGW to DnL graphically speaking since Dark and Light was utilizing BigWorld only for the server part, which was BTW in its alpha stage at the time.
The only two games I'm sure that have been making use of BigWorld as a graphics engine are Citizen Zero ( link ) and Kwari ( link ) (both of them cancelled). In fact, I doubt SGW made use of any BigWorld graphics engine whatsoever, only BigWorld server part, (a sole server architecture marketed as being able to support hundreds of thousands - up to millions- players) and I think that was scheduled right from the beginning, and presented to the investors...
Well, I used to since... I was one of Dark and Light's developer. And that's why I can tell you that there is no reason to compare SGW to DnL graphically speaking since Dark and Light was utilizing BigWorld only for the server part, which was BTW in its alpha stage at the time. The only two games I'm sure that have been making use of BigWorld as a graphics engine are Citizen Zero ( link ) and Kwari ( link ) (both of them cancelled). In fact, I doubt SGW made use of any BigWorld graphics engine whatsoever, only BigWorld server part, (a sole server architecture marketed as being able to support hundreds of thousands - up to millions- players) and I think that was scheduled right from the beginning, and presented to the investors...
Nope client is Unreal on sgw side. And some of the areas in SGW are graphically astounding. With the new influx of money I am confident they can get this game out the door we were so close to the finish line.
Gods & Heroes was a damn sight closer than SGW and they didn't make it, and they didn't have pyramid schemes, 6 months unpaid wages, unpaid back taxes and a reputation that makes John Smedley look like a good guy to deal with! Well I hope SGW gets released and makes all those pyramid schemers rich, good luck CME all 5 of you allegedly still working there!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
MMOGUL's would love to have all of CME"s proposed games, but CME wanted nothing to do with MMOGUL's - Whiting controls things - so who know what may have ultimately happened. MGM helped keep MMOGUL's away from SGW since MGM controls the license. CME did not initial raise $55 million - don't know where that rumor came from. The funding group at CME's plan was to raise money over time. CME never had more than a couple million dollars at the most at any time. CME still hasn't raised $55 million. I think I heard that the board originally planned on raising about $100 million and developing 6-10 games. They only got about 1/2 of it raised before the economy tanked in September 2008 and they couldn't raise any more. I think they had raised about $46 million as of December 2008 - not much has come in since then and that's why they are so far behind on payroll etc.
Then I guess the former Chief Financial Officer is lying: (from his LinkedIn profile) Cheyenne Mountain is a rapidly growing start-up developer and publisher of interactive entertainment software products that has successfully raised more than $40 million. Cheyenne Mountain is in production of the Stargate Worlds MMORPG through license with MGM. Recruited by CEO to lead all aspects of the strategic financial and administrative management of the corporation and its many subsidiaries. Supervised a broad staff of individuals responsible for Accounting, Financial Reporting, Financial Planning & Analysis, Treasury, Investor Relations, Human Resources, and Facilities. Link: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/roger-piskulick/6/8b4/669
On the $8.0 million - it is hard to say where it will go. They need to work with MGM to figure out the best course of action since $8.0million is not enough to get SGW completed. My guess is about 1/2 will go to development and 1/2 for old bills.
That's your guess, probably the same as a lot of your 'contact' source information.
They have been no payments on the lawsuits except to attorney's - all are still pending and I think there are only four that the CME is involved in. Two are real estate related and two are vendors. There is no money to recover, so they are wasting their time and money to litigate.
Again, this is all from a link on these forums, and again nothing new from your 'contact'.
The $8.0 million will be used just for Stargate - but how it will be used for Stargate will be determined with MGM's help.
Again, this is nothing but BS. Upper management would never disclose relations with a liscensee to negotiate how a business is run; MGM provides the liscense, that is all - it is CME's liscense till it terminates.
To finish SGW will take about $8.0 million and over a year of time. Much of the team will need to be rehired. But it will cost another $10 million to market and launch the game - this may come from a publisher of partner. I think as of December about $15 million of direct costs had been sent on SGW and about 5 million more had been spent on overhead related to SGW
Again, 'I think' blah blah... nonsense.
I don't know what Stargate Battles is. I am guessing that it is another Stargate Game that CME may be considering that could be launched quicker and at a lower cost - but I don't know.
Amazing your CME 'contact' has no idea; sounds to me like your 'contact' and yourself are one in the same.
CME had discussed makeing iPhone applications, but it has never done so that I am aware of.
Again, it's not hard to associate Hand Cranked Studio with a technology that didn't even exist upon the studios launch.
The employees from the other studios in many cases didn't have the skills needed for SGW. CME was stupid in lots of ways - they continued to think funding was coming like it had in the past - even after several months.
This all comes from discussions relating to CME's mass intake of interns over the 2008/09 period - pure speculation and mind rambles. Those are the answers - like them or not. No they aren't the answers, they are just the summaries that this community has already done for itself, which you thought you were enlightening us with. I notice the forums love to attack Whiting - Shane chooses to take the high road and gets slammed for not bashing Whiting. Whiting did stupid things - but I am sure he didn't think they were stupid at the time. I think he genuinely wants this to work - he just hasn't always done things very wisely and the controlling shareholder, he doesn't have a board to help him make better decisions. SGW's failure will hit him the hardest, so I don't think he would have been stupid on purpose. That's your opinion - the rest of us see him as the ponzi/pyramid scheme creator that he is
I was going to let this die, but I just have to get in a reply!
MMOGUL's was opposed by everyone at CME that is why it is not part of CME. Whiting thought it was a great idea and would generate cash to save SGW - when everyone else said no - he formed it separately and still tried to get CME employees involved and part of it.
Agreed. But why isn’t CME doing something to keep MMOGULS from using their name, logo’s, etc. especially when it ultimately hurts CME. If CME hates MMOGULS, why did CME Sr. Management help re-build MMOGULS instead of letting it die when MMOOGULS management walked?
MMOGUL's is not iSnap - but they may have taken some of the ideas from iSnap Again, why does CME allow this? Did they not copy write iSnap?
MMOGUL's would love to have all of CME"s proposed games, but CME wanted nothing to do with MMOGUL's - Whiting controls things - so who know what may have ultimately happened. MGM helped keep MMOGUL's away from SGW since MGM controls the license.
Looks like MMOGULS got Shane’s game! Deadlands is all over their advertising now. Same with Stargate Battles! They are marketing those game launches. Whiting just needs to be ousted so he stops tarnishing CME.
CME did not initial raise $55 million - don't know where that rumor came from. The funding group at CME's plan was to raise money over time. CME never had more than a couple million dollars at the most at any time. CME still hasn't raised $55 million. I think I heard that the board originally planned on raising about $100 million and developing 6-10 games. They only got about 1/2 of it raised before the economy tanked in September 2008 and they couldn't raise any more. I think they had raised about $46 million as of December 2008 - not much has come in since then and that's why they are so far behind on payroll etc.
Your numbers are all over the place. If their plan was 6-10 games @ $100M and about ½ was raised, $55M is the top half and your number of $46M is the lower half. Does your number include $4 Million SGW’s initial placement (which wasnt CME raised)? Okay we are at $50M. Now what about the differences in amounts that people say they contributed and received certificates for less. $55M isn’t that far off now? While you state they only ever had a few million at any given time, why were employees and press told “SGW is fully funded” then? I never disputed $55M since I could get close to this number and CME's financials are not audited.
On the $8.0 million - it is hard to say where it will go. They need to work with MGM to figure out the best course of action since $8.0million is not enough to get SGW completed. My guess is about 1/2 will go to development and 1/2 for old bills
They have been no payments on the lawsuits except to attorney's - all are still pending and I think there are only four that the CME is involved in. Two are real estate related and two are vendors. There is no money to recover, so they are wasting their time and money to litigate.
The $8.0 million will be used just for Stargate - but how it will be used for Stargate will be determined with MGM's help.
If there is money coming in, then there are assets for the lawsuits.
You cant pick and choose who you will pay. CME’s in a tough spot. If you don’t pay your back wages first, employees might not come back and others will sue or force the Department of Labor’s assistance. If you don’t pay your taxes first, the IRS might just levy the funds anyway. You also have to pay any outsourced work since they are going to use all they can in Stargate Battles.
To finish SGW will take about $8.0 million and over a year of time. Much of the team will need to be rehired. But it will cost another $10 million to market and launch the game - this may come from a publisher of partner. I think as of December about $15 million of direct costs had been sent on SGW and about 5 million more had been spent on overhead related to SGW.
Think your spent numbers are a bit off as well as your finished development – although $18M is close to the $20-$25M that was estimated at first.
I don't know what Stargate Battles is. I am guessing that it is another Stargate Game that CME may be considering that could be launched quicker and at a lower cost - but I don't know.
You don’t know what Stargate Battles is?!!? It’s going to save CME! No wait, that was MMOGULS! Prepared to be underwhelmed if it ever gets finished.
CME had discussed making iPhone applications, but it has never done so that I am aware of.
They tried, it was going to raise some quick cash to pay developers. Unfortunately, not many programming types were left to make it happen.
The employees from the other studios in many cases didn't have the skills needed for SGW. CME was stupid in lots of ways - they continued to think funding was coming like it had in the past - even after several months.
I bet the employees from other studios are some of the first hired back! Of course, if they get anyone back, that’s a miracle.
I notice the forums love to attack Whiting - Shane chooses to take the high road and gets slammed for not bashing Whiting. Whiting did stupid things - but I am sure he didn't think they were stupid at the time. I think he genuinely wants this to work - he just hasn't always done things very wisely and the controlling shareholder, he doesn't have a board to help him make better decisions. SGW's failure will hit him the hardest, so I don't think he would have been stupid on purpose.
Whiting always has/had his Sr. Management team to fall back on. He made them ineffective by not allowing positive feedback or changes in his decisions. But he does not listen to anyone, as evidenced by his creating and still cultivating MMOGULS. The stupid stuff Whiting has done, he deserves to be bashed for it! He could have avoided ½ the money loss and embarrassment if he just listened to his team.
Get your "POPCORN" and get ready for a real show.... Everyone who is an investor, former or current employee or vendor of CME and/or ANY affiliate, that would include Garvick as well, will soon get a chance be a part of the carnival, all supervised by a Federal Judge..
Whiting, Gagon, Jenson, Deering, Lilly, one and all, plus a dozen or so more will get exactly what is coming to them. There will be no negotiations, no BS, no use of company funds to spend on legal fees, and severe penalties for false statements and false testimony...
Tick Tick Tick, enjoy your time, soon, very very soon...
Get your "POPCORN" and get ready for a real show.... Everyone who is an investor, former or current employee or vendor of CME and/or ANY affiliate, that would include Garvick as well, will soon get a chance be a part of the carnival, all supervised by a Federal Judge.. Whiting, Gagon, Jenson, Deering, Lilly, one and all, plus a dozen or so more will get exactly what is coming to them. There will be no negotiations, no BS, no use of company funds to spend on legal fees, and severe penalties for false statements and false testimony... Tick Tick Tick, enjoy your time, soon, very very soon...
Have you found something specific regarding some new lawsuit, or are you just entertainingly stating the inevitable?
Have to take careof a little unfinished business with MR Whiting, possibly within a week, then I am simply saying where this company is going.... Bankruptcy!!!
Reading all this banter about kicking butt has inspired me to put my impressions to photoshop once again,
I believe this now catches the feeling of this conversation in a non cryptic format Personally I think Gary ran out of lucky days somwhere around late 2007/early 2008, but he's still going anyway! I guess that's why they call him "Dirty Gary"?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I wonder if the stupid doctor investors had any guarantee against a bankruptcy filing. Guess time will tell.
If CME owes you money, if you are an investor who has had no communication or falsified stock certificates, an employee who's owed back wages, other unpaid benefits or contractual agreements, a vendor who has not received payment for game assets or office supplies, a credit card company, local business men who lent Gary money, a landlord tired of giving away free rent, here is your opportunity. Give a shout out to Mr. Texas.
Looks like an investor lawsuit has hit the books in AZ. It's filed by Nedra and Robert McKell against everyone in sight: CME, Garvick, CMG, MMOGULS, and Now Corp.
It looks like there was a judgment in Utah already. I wonder if their court records are online....
Edit: Hmm, it doesn't look like you can link to cases from here. So, go to the search site, then do a search by case number for CV2009-093004
And it looks like Utah charges for online access to cases... darn.
Nice find! I just looked at the outstanding cases the other day, so this is freshy new. The Nedra and Robert McKell case should be interesting as it is over $500,000 to CME and 3 million in total for MMOGULS. It was said before that Nedra & Robert made the original investment into MMOGULS.
So they want Gary out? "AND APPOINTMENT OF INTERIM PRESIDENT"
I'm sure those stupid doctors knew about this, so their investment is safe!
In doing a little research, it would appear that the restraining order and appointment of Interim President is to oust Gary Whiting from control. Until someone gets their hands on the complaint, it will not be known if they are looking to control MMOGULS or CME or BOTH. I venture to say both.
Nedra’s deal became so convoluted with the Jeff Knowles negotiations that I do not even know where it left off. I do know that Nedra made two different contributions into Garvick/MMOGULS/CME totalling $500k and was promised CME stock, various loan repayments, guarantees, etc. Whether she gave the initial 3 million or was to contribution an addition 2.5M is fuzzy.
While I should be thrilled that CME’s leaders might be ousted, it also worries me. I have no idea what direction Nedra is coming from. Is she more interested in MMOGULS? If so, she could not be any more harmful than Whiting, right? . Does she want to get Stargate out the door?
This woman has a lot of money, and could give Gary Whiting a run for his life. Heck, she could be trying to get an injunction at this very moment!
I am going to try to get to the courthouse this week and get my hands on the complaint. Can anyone else get it sooner?
Comments
Agricola1 would kill me in a Troll Fight. He is good at what he does - I am a novice and clearly don't know what I am doing. I kneel down to his superiority.
70mil total.
that 20 and the 25 or so they spent on SGW = 40-50mill on SGW. they pissed away/pocketed 20-25 mil on opening up ghost studios that also never released a product.
So... that's puzzling and the question would be: How come that you did waste all these $$$ whereas the initial decision was not to go for the development of a game engine , 'cause it's always expensive to develop if you start from scratch?
To me, three possible answers:
1- Scenario 1: these figures are simply wrong, for some reason: marketing comes to mind of course, always good to announce you spent millions of bucks to develop a game. Your goal however is to release a proper game.
2- Scenario 2: investors scam, planned from the very beginning: in this case, you also need to be very good in your marketing (to sell vapor to your investors). Difference with Scenario 1 being the goal, which is not to release a game. (The scenario you seem to think as being the most correct one)
3- Scenario 3: Big technical issue, a classic scenario which could be:
Year0:
Marketing : Here we are! We've got a top-class licence: we will release the best MMO game ever !
Tech : Cool! Give me the specs
M: Here they are: a big world and millions of people on the same server
T: Well... give me the specs, not the wish list, thanks
M: Told you, these are the specs: a big world and millions of people on the same server. And yes, with no lag!
T: Ah... hmmmmm, well, we will do our best: give me 4 years, let's say 30 skilled people and the appropriate budget.
M: No way!!! You've got one year, 10 developers and 10% of the total budget: we've already spent millions in viral-marketing the product. Come on, you only have to develop it now, this IS YOUR JOB!!! (at this point, the scenario fits with scenario1: good to announce a big budget, but not spend it on actual development)
T: You already communicated on the game? Oh... gosh...Ok, you will never get a game featuring millions of people on the same server, since it's impossible. We will do our best, anyway.
Year1:
Marketing: You' re late!!! We 've got to release the game NOW!
Tech: No way, we are still working on it...
M: We have already announced a beta date for next week.
T: What???
M: You are late!!! DO YOUR JOB
T: We cannot go for a beta and cannot release the game soon. The game needs at least 6 additional months of work.
M: Impossible!!! We do not have the money to pay for such a development!
T: So... people developing the game will leave
M: We don't care! Listen to me, nobody is indispensable: we will find other devs, FREE ones!!! Don't you know everybody wants to develop on our top-class licence?!
Year2:
Marketing bot: The game will feature: a big world and millions of people on the same server with no lag!!!
Tech: Impossible. All skilled members of the tech team have left anyway.
MB: The game will feature: a big world and millions of people on the same server with no lag!!! The game will...
...
GOTO Year0 (at this point, the scenario fits with scenario2: second round table, even if the concept cannot work)
End of story, or to be continued?
No, it's not only a flight sim
Current Work In Progress
I thank you for paying me my due respect and do reward you with 100 internet points to spend on whatever anti troll hardware you wish. As for Whiting (/spit) it seems we agree he ****ed up on a titanic scale never seen in the MMORPG industry before. Also I agree he didn't screw himself over on purpose, it was due to absoloute incompitency on every single level from Whiting to the pizza delivery boy. The evidence is clear, my beef is that he tries to hide it all and starts up a pyramid scheme and attempts to force that on gamers such as myself. All in a vain attempt to patch up the crap he blew apart in the first place, he's got unhappy investors claiming he ripped them off because no large VC company would touch this project. Gary is an entreprenuer with a long history of failed companies and businesses, he doesn't have anything that could be called a success.
This man never had it in him to make a success out of CME, CME was merely a record of exactly what not to do when developing an MMORPG. Also it will never hit the shelves as Bigworld and Unreal have already stated that the marriage of the two engines is either near impossible or just impossible. Gary is a failed businessman and is now running a pyramid scheme which itself is failing. I just want Gary to **** off and die and leave the MMORPG industry alone, as with every other business he's ever tried his hand at it's failed, FACT!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I personally don't know about Gary Whiting, nor about CME, but it is always very sad to see developers failing that way, especially with such budgets... ah! reminds me of the old times when it was possible to develop a game (I mean, a real game) for a few hundred thousand bucks, and it was even possible to make money with it.
Sigh... Anyway, CME is not the only company making use of the combination of BigWorld and Unreal engine to develop an MMO game: 38 Studios does too. I quote an interesting other article:
Schilling started 38 Studios to focus on a main passion and create MMOGs with amazing talent as his baseball career winds down. The eclectic and veteran talented crew over at 38 Studios have been hard at work for over a year now on the super-secret title which utilizes the BigWorld and Unreal technologies.
( http://www.massively.com/tag/bigworld/ )
No, it's not only a flight sim
Current Work In Progress
I personally don't know about Gary Whiting, nor about CME, but it is always very sad to see developers failing that way, especially with such budgets... ah! reminds me of the old times when it was possible to develop a game (I mean, a real game) for a few hundred thousand bucks, and it was even possible to make money with it.
Sigh... Anyway, CME is not the only company making use of the combination of BigWorld and Unreal engine to develop an MMO game: 38 Studios does too. I quote an interesting other article:
Schilling started 38 Studios to focus on a main passion and create MMOGs with amazing talent as his baseball career winds down. The eclectic and veteran talented crew over at 38 Studios have been hard at work for over a year now on the super-secret title which utilizes the BigWorld and Unreal technologies.
( http://www.massively.com/tag/bigworld/ )
That's interesting, have they actually released anything? Because if they did they'd be the first to do it and could no doubt lend CME a hand!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Nope, as far as I know. So, wait and see...
No, it's not only a flight sim
Current Work In Progress
Well, I used to since... I was one of Dark and Light's developer. And that's why I can tell you that there is no reason to compare SGW to DnL graphically speaking since Dark and Light was utilizing BigWorld only for the server part, which was BTW in its alpha stage at the time.
The only two games I'm sure that have been making use of BigWorld as a graphics engine are Citizen Zero ( link ) and Kwari ( link ) (both of them cancelled). In fact, I doubt SGW made use of any BigWorld graphics engine whatsoever, only BigWorld server part, (a sole server architecture marketed as being able to support hundreds of thousands - up to millions- players) and I think that was scheduled right from the beginning, and presented to the investors...
No, it's not only a flight sim
Current Work In Progress
Nope client is Unreal on sgw side. And some of the areas in SGW are graphically astounding. With the new influx of money I am confident they can get this game out the door we were so close to the finish line.
Gods & Heroes was a damn sight closer than SGW and they didn't make it, and they didn't have pyramid schemes, 6 months unpaid wages, unpaid back taxes and a reputation that makes John Smedley look like a good guy to deal with! Well I hope SGW gets released and makes all those pyramid schemers rich, good luck CME all 5 of you allegedly still working there!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
orgill3, i smell much BS.
I was going to let this die, but I just have to get in a reply!
MMOGUL's was opposed by everyone at CME that is why it is not part of CME. Whiting thought it was a great idea and would generate cash to save SGW - when everyone else said no - he formed it separately and still tried to get CME employees involved and part of it.
Agreed. But why isn’t CME doing something to keep MMOGULS from using their name, logo’s, etc. especially when it ultimately hurts CME. If CME hates MMOGULS, why did CME Sr. Management help re-build MMOGULS instead of letting it die when MMOOGULS management walked?
MMOGUL's is not iSnap - but they may have taken some of the ideas from iSnap Again, why does CME allow this? Did they not copy write iSnap?
MMOGUL's would love to have all of CME"s proposed games, but CME wanted nothing to do with MMOGUL's - Whiting controls things - so who know what may have ultimately happened. MGM helped keep MMOGUL's away from SGW since MGM controls the license.
Looks like MMOGULS got Shane’s game! Deadlands is all over their advertising now. Same with Stargate Battles! They are marketing those game launches. Whiting just needs to be ousted so he stops tarnishing CME.
CME did not initial raise $55 million - don't know where that rumor came from. The funding group at CME's plan was to raise money over time. CME never had more than a couple million dollars at the most at any time. CME still hasn't raised $55 million. I think I heard that the board originally planned on raising about $100 million and developing 6-10 games. They only got about 1/2 of it raised before the economy tanked in September 2008 and they couldn't raise any more. I think they had raised about $46 million as of December 2008 - not much has come in since then and that's why they are so far behind on payroll etc.
Your numbers are all over the place. If their plan was 6-10 games @ $100M and about ½ was raised, $55M is the top half and your number of $46M is the lower half. Does your number include $4 Million SGW’s initial placement (which wasnt CME raised)? Okay we are at $50M. Now what about the differences in amounts that people say they contributed and received certificates for less. $55M isn’t that far off now? While you state they only ever had a few million at any given time, why were employees and press told “SGW is fully funded” then? I never disputed $55M since I could get close to this number and CME's financials are not audited.
On the $8.0 million - it is hard to say where it will go. They need to work with MGM to figure out the best course of action since $8.0million is not enough to get SGW completed. My guess is about 1/2 will go to development and 1/2 for old bills
They have been no payments on the lawsuits except to attorney's - all are still pending and I think there are only four that the CME is involved in. Two are real estate related and two are vendors. There is no money to recover, so they are wasting their time and money to litigate.
The $8.0 million will be used just for Stargate - but how it will be used for Stargate will be determined with MGM's help.
If there is money coming in, then there are assets for the lawsuits.
You cant pick and choose who you will pay. CME’s in a tough spot. If you don’t pay your back wages first, employees might not come back and others will sue or force the Department of Labor’s assistance. If you don’t pay your taxes first, the IRS might just levy the funds anyway. You also have to pay any outsourced work since they are going to use all they can in Stargate Battles.
To finish SGW will take about $8.0 million and over a year of time. Much of the team will need to be rehired. But it will cost another $10 million to market and launch the game - this may come from a publisher of partner. I think as of December about $15 million of direct costs had been sent on SGW and about 5 million more had been spent on overhead related to SGW.
Think your spent numbers are a bit off as well as your finished development – although $18M is close to the $20-$25M that was estimated at first.
I don't know what Stargate Battles is. I am guessing that it is another Stargate Game that CME may be considering that could be launched quicker and at a lower cost - but I don't know.
You don’t know what Stargate Battles is?!!? It’s going to save CME! No wait, that was MMOGULS! Prepared to be underwhelmed if it ever gets finished.
CME had discussed making iPhone applications, but it has never done so that I am aware of.
They tried, it was going to raise some quick cash to pay developers. Unfortunately, not many programming types were left to make it happen.
The employees from the other studios in many cases didn't have the skills needed for SGW. CME was stupid in lots of ways - they continued to think funding was coming like it had in the past - even after several months.
I bet the employees from other studios are some of the first hired back! Of course, if they get anyone back, that’s a miracle.
I notice the forums love to attack Whiting - Shane chooses to take the high road and gets slammed for not bashing Whiting. Whiting did stupid things - but I am sure he didn't think they were stupid at the time. I think he genuinely wants this to work - he just hasn't always done things very wisely and the controlling shareholder, he doesn't have a board to help him make better decisions. SGW's failure will hit him the hardest, so I don't think he would have been stupid on purpose.
Whiting always has/had his Sr. Management team to fall back on. He made them ineffective by not allowing positive feedback or changes in his decisions. But he does not listen to anyone, as evidenced by his creating and still cultivating MMOGULS. The stupid stuff Whiting has done, he deserves to be bashed for it! He could have avoided ½ the money loss and embarrassment if he just listened to his team.
Get your "POPCORN" and get ready for a real show.... Everyone who is an investor, former or current employee or vendor of CME and/or ANY affiliate, that would include Garvick as well, will soon get a chance be a part of the carnival, all supervised by a Federal Judge..
Whiting, Gagon, Jenson, Deering, Lilly, one and all, plus a dozen or so more will get exactly what is coming to them. There will be no negotiations, no BS, no use of company funds to spend on legal fees, and severe penalties for false statements and false testimony...
Tick Tick Tick, enjoy your time, soon, very very soon...
Have you found something specific regarding some new lawsuit, or are you just entertainingly stating the inevitable?
Have to take careof a little unfinished business with MR Whiting, possibly within a week, then I am simply saying where this company is going.... Bankruptcy!!!
Well... aren't you Mr. Cryptic today
cryp⋅tic /?kr?pt?k/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [krip-tik] Show IPA
Use cryptic in a Sentence
See web results for cryptic
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–adjective Also, cryp⋅ti⋅cal. 1. mysterious in meaning; puzzling; ambiguous: a cryptic message.
2. abrupt; terse; short: a cryptic note.
3. secret; occult: a cryptic writing.
4. involving or using cipher, code, etc.
5. Zoology. fitted for concealing; serving to camouflage
Bankruptcy is pretty damn plain talk..
That is cryptic.
Hits these definitions in your dictionary:
1. mysterious in meaning; puzzling; ambiguous
2. abrupt; terse
4. involving or using cipher, code, etc. (specifically "unfinished business," which is usually code for the kicking of one's ass by another)
Now we speak the same language, Im just a simple redneck from Texas..
Reading all this banter about kicking butt has inspired me to put my impressions to photoshop once again,
I believe this now catches the feeling of this conversation in a non cryptic format
Personally I think Gary ran out of lucky days somwhere around late 2007/early 2008, but he's still going anyway! I guess that's why they call him "Dirty Gary"?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I wonder if the stupid doctor investors had any guarantee against a bankruptcy filing. Guess time will tell.
If CME owes you money, if you are an investor who has had no communication or falsified stock certificates, an employee who's owed back wages, other unpaid benefits or contractual agreements, a vendor who has not received payment for game assets or office supplies, a credit card company, local business men who lent Gary money, a landlord tired of giving away free rent, here is your opportunity. Give a shout out to Mr. Texas.
Looks like an investor lawsuit has hit the books in AZ. It's filed by Nedra and Robert McKell against everyone in sight: CME, Garvick, CMG, MMOGULS, and Now Corp.
It looks like there was a judgment in Utah already. I wonder if their court records are online....
Edit: Hmm, it doesn't look like you can link to cases from here. So, go to the search site, then do a search by case number for CV2009-093004
And it looks like Utah charges for online access to cases... darn.
Nice find! I just looked at the outstanding cases the other day, so this is freshy new. The Nedra and Robert McKell case should be interesting as it is over $500,000 to CME and 3 million in total for MMOGULS. It was said before that Nedra & Robert made the original investment into MMOGULS.
So they want Gary out? "AND APPOINTMENT OF INTERIM PRESIDENT"
I'm sure those stupid doctors knew about this, so their investment is safe!
Not individual cases.
cut and paste this , it will give you all the civil court cases.
http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/CivilCourtCases/caseSearchResults.asp?lastName=&FirstName=&bName=Cheyenne+Mountain+Enter
Looks like Whiting likes to dodge the tax man as well.
Link: http://www.azsos.gov/uccimg9/gifs/0867003-0-001-001.gif
He doesn't pay much in the way of taxes either, although to be fair it is an old document.
In doing a little research, it would appear that the restraining order and appointment of Interim President is to oust Gary Whiting from control. Until someone gets their hands on the complaint, it will not be known if they are looking to control MMOGULS or CME or BOTH. I venture to say both.
Nedra’s deal became so convoluted with the Jeff Knowles negotiations that I do not even know where it left off. I do know that Nedra made two different contributions into Garvick/MMOGULS/CME totalling $500k and was promised CME stock, various loan repayments, guarantees, etc. Whether she gave the initial 3 million or was to contribution an addition 2.5M is fuzzy.
While I should be thrilled that CME’s leaders might be ousted, it also worries me. I have no idea what direction Nedra is coming from. Is she more interested in MMOGULS? If so, she could not be any more harmful than Whiting, right? . Does she want to get Stargate out the door?
This woman has a lot of money, and could give Gary Whiting a run for his life. Heck, she could be trying to get an injunction at this very moment!
I am going to try to get to the courthouse this week and get my hands on the complaint. Can anyone else get it sooner?
Maybe you should take the handy cam and see if Gary's up for an interview - send my regards.