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Sovrath

Originally posted by Teiman


 

Originally posted by Sovrath

I find atheists just as bad as hard core religious zealots.

Dogma in any form is bad. And quite frankly an atheist can't tell how the universe "is" because it's not possible to do that from the very limited experience that humanity has. It's like a flea sitting on a dog and saying that it can describe the entire dog in looks and temperment. Not going to happen.

 

Well.. the burden of the proff is on the people that say god exist. Theres not need for any dogma or spiritualism. Prove me that ghost exist, or that soul exist, or that god exist, or that jesus was a god, etc.. and I will be ok to me.  

You have not proven that your SuperHero Magic Guy From The Heaven exist, so why I sould NOT laugh at you?

 

In that case the burden of proof also falls to the person who says a god doesn't exist since a religous person needs no hard and fast proof since it's based on faith. it is the atheist who is making a claim as well.

I have never EVER met an atheist who could prove that god doesn't exist, especially under the idea (did you read my post?) that humans are finite beings with limited point of view of the universe. Perhaps there is a "god" (and I put that in quotes as we can't know what that really is now can we?) that just doesn't do anything and has nothing to do with the earth. Or perhaps it's some incredibly advanced species. Or a consortium of intelligences?

But the atheist has a belief system of how the universe is. He/she is putting forth the idea that there is no higher intelligence or god. But with no actual proof other than he just doesn't buy it.

As of Friday night I learned that we can now teleport objects. On a molecular scale but we can now do it. That was said to be impossible. This is because people have a VERY limited view on the universe and can't know anything with certainty.

I highlighted the real ridiculous part. Where do I say that I believe in a god?

pb1285n

 All you guys who are argueing that atheism is not a religion are not atheist, you are just apathetic. For those who really are atheists it is a religion.

The burden of proof is not on those who believe in God because science is just as unbelievable and is constantly changing. Just because it seems logical to you that the universe decided to pop into existance one day for no apparent reason and then under next to impossible odds this solar system was set up in such a way that over the course of billions of years would be the only planet (to our knowledge) that can sustain life and to have humans evolve into beings with the intelligence to question their existance on a gaming forum. It all seems a little farfetched to me.

Anyone who says they know anything for sure is either lying or ignorant. Not even science is fact, it's simply the most logical conclusion we have with the tools at our disposal. Tomorrow someone can discover something that throws all those "laws" out the window.

Sovrath

Originally posted by pb1285n


 Anyone who says they know anything for sure is either lying or ignorant. Not even science is fact, it's simply the most logical conclusion we have with the tools at our disposal. Tomorrow someone can discover something that throws all those "laws" out the window.

 

Thank you!

thexrated

Originally posted by pb1285n


 All you guys who are argueing that atheism is not a religion are not atheist, you are just apathetic. For those who really are atheists it is a religion.

So my disbelief in unicorns and Santa Claus is also a religion?

"Definitely not. Disbelief in a proposition means that one does not believe it to be true. Not believing that something is true is not equivalent to believing that it is false; one may simply have no idea whether it is true or not. Which brings us to agnosticism."

Also consider the following:

The Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Rather than attempting to define religion, they describe some of the factors that are typically found in religion. The About author came up with the following list:

• Belief in something sacred (for example, gods or other supernatural beings).
• A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
• Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
• A moral code believed to have a sacred or supernatural basis.
• Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual.
• Prayer and other forms of communication with the supernatural.
• A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
•  A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
•  A social group bound together by the above.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_defn.htm

Atheism does not require or even have any of that. And no, atheism is not an unified world view either because most atheists believe in many different things. Only thing common is the disbelief in a god(s) and usually for all things considered supernatural. 

Atheists do not consider that Abrahamic God is a special case. For us, it is on the same line with Zeus and Odin. Spinoza's pantheistic god is the probably closest thing that many atheists would contemplate as a god, but it is nothing like Abrahamic God. 

 

pb1285n

No religion requires that. How many Catholics don't practice? If you really want to be called an atheist then you are a non practicing atheist but that doesn't mean you are not following a religion. If you wish to not be involved in any religion then you are not an atheist, and that's fine.

Oh and your arguement that not every atheist believes in the same thing. How many different denominations of christianity are there? and they can be so vastly different you wouldn't recognize they had the same core beliefs.

Plus you said it yourself "some of the factors that are typically found in religion" which means they don't need all of them.

and yes they do have atheist churhces and they do have organizations that would be considered a social group and they do have a general world view and a moral code.

Again just because you don't follow it doesn't mean it is not so. Just because my mom doesn't go to church doesn't mean she can't believe in God.

 

 

thexrated

Originally posted by pb1285n


No religion requires that. How many Catholics don't practice? If you really want to be called an atheist then you are a non practicing atheist but that doesn't mean you are not following a religion. If you wish to not be involved in any religion then you are not an atheist, and that's fine.
Oh and your arguement that not every atheist believes in the same thing. How many different denominations of christianity are there? and they can be so vastly different you wouldn't recognize they had the same core beliefs.
Plus you said it yourself "some of the factors that are typically found in religion" which means they don't need all of them.
and yes they do have atheist churhces and they do have organizations that would be considered a social group and they do have a general world view and a moral code.
Again just because you don't follow it doesn't mean it is not so. Just because my mom doesn't go to church doesn't mean she can't believe in God.

Nice straw man reply.

It is mind boggling that a person who does not even understand what atheism means has the audacity to try and tell others whether they are "true" atheists or not. That is called bigotry. 

Atheism in itself does not define any world view apart from the disbelief in god(s). I suggest you go back and read the link I provided.

While there are some atheist "churches" and organisations, most of them lack the features required for a religion (see the list again). Even if some of them appear church-like it does not mean that atheism itself is a religion. Sure, you can take atheism and make it a religion, but then it would have to be atheism plus something else. Buddhism for example can be considered to be an atheist religion.

Atheism does not entail that you need to follow anything. Atheists on the otherhand can follow many things, like secular humanism.  Your mother's belief in a god does not make her belief into a religion, but it does make her theist. 

SonikFlash

Then there are people like me who watch all the cultist around the world stroll into their facility every sunday and laugh with the sad resignation for the doomed souls.

pb1285n

Originally posted by thexrated

Originally posted by pb1285n


No religion requires that. How many Catholics don't practice? If you really want to be called an atheist then you are a non practicing atheist but that doesn't mean you are not following a religion. If you wish to not be involved in any religion then you are not an atheist, and that's fine.
Oh and your arguement that not every atheist believes in the same thing. How many different denominations of christianity are there? and they can be so vastly different you wouldn't recognize they had the same core beliefs.
Plus you said it yourself "some of the factors that are typically found in religion" which means they don't need all of them.
and yes they do have atheist churhces and they do have organizations that would be considered a social group and they do have a general world view and a moral code.
Again just because you don't follow it doesn't mean it is not so. Just because my mom doesn't go to church doesn't mean she can't believe in God.

Nice straw man reply.

It is mind boggling that a person who does not even understand what atheism means has the audacity to try and tell others whether they are "true" atheists or not. That is called bigotry. 

Atheism in itself does not define any world view apart from the disbelief in god(s). I suggest you go back and read the link I provided.

While there are some atheist "churches" and organisations, most of them lack the features required for a religion (see the list again). Even if some of them appear church-like it does not mean that atheism itself is a religion. Sure, you can take atheism and make it a religion, but then it would have to be atheism plus something else. Buddhism for example can be considered to be an atheist religion.

Atheism does not entail that you need to follow anything. Atheists on the otherhand can follow many things, like secular humanism.  Your mother's belief in a god does not make her belief into a religion, but it does make her theist. 

 

You are the one being the bigot, using your own belief to stereotype an entire group of people. Just because you don't have any other beliefs besides the lack of God doesn't mean other Atheists are the same. 

The fact of the matter is that Atheism has every aspect of a religion and the only people who say otherwise either.

A. Don't want to be associated with a religion in any way

B. Want to be able to spew their beliefs without people crying seperation of church and state

If you don't follow atheism then just like my mother's belief in God doesn't make her apart of a religion your disbelief in God doesn't make you an Atheist.

If you want to be an Atheist you are in a religion, if you don't want to be an atheist then you are not. You don't need to have a label to believe or not believe in God.

thexrated

You can't just redefine terminology and expect everyone to accept them. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the etymology of the word.

Your idea of atheism is a subjective proposition. You are feel to believe in it, but do not expect many atheists to understand what the fuck you are talking about. 

DerekGordon

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