I like what I read OP. I've played Darkfall about 2 and a half week now. And Im enjoying it very much.
Mostly skilled logging and mining though for making arrows. And then leveled archery on skeletons (used to live in yssam near skeletons, got a new hamlet some days ago on mainlands). And also bloodwalling, but then Im lvling polearm too. Its just on like 30 atm while Archery is about 50-55. So its really slow since I dont have all the time in the world with work gf and all, but I still enjoy it alot!
Because i see it often used in the posts above and in other posts too, can someone explain me where is the unattended macroing part of the Bloodwall ?
There is someone places himself afk but he is NOT macroing. And there is someone else who hits him while he is at the keyboard.. so where is the untattended macroing part ? If someone would set up a macro to hit someone and he would go afk he would kill the one he hits. These is not an attempt to excuse the bloodwall but i see people call these unattentedmacroing and nothing really of it is.
The probs about unattended macroing have been taken care of with an early patch in which hiting valid targets has become a requirement for skill up.
Acutally, AFK playing is implicitly prohibited, not just macroing. That's why AFK auto-running and swimming (using the in-game default key bindings) are prohibited. Darkfall is hampered by extremely poor game design and Aventurine has been trying to clean it up since the game launched:
Unattended macroing and unattended use of autorun and swimming against obstacles are also prohibited. We have taken great measures to limit macroing, to reward the players who are actually playing the game and allow them to catch up easily. We will continue working on making macroing and its effects irrelevant in Darkfall.
...
Thank you for Reading,
The Darkfall Team
__________________
Last edited by Tasos; 05-27-2009 at 06:09 PM..
Macroing and unattended playing have been and continue to be big problems in the game. They're problems because the game's skill system mechanics not only facillitates them, but encourage them. If it wasn't a problem, Aventurine wouldn't have to "continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary".
GS: Hackers, bots, cheaters and macro players: what plans do you have to eradicate these aspects?
We detect and permanently ban all cheaters. As a result cheating is very rare in the game. It certainly doesn’t affect the game world and the incidents we have are sporadic and far in between. We now ban at the account owner level which is a level deeper than the account level, so people won’t be tempted to use disposable accounts to cheat with.
About macroing: We have taken and will continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary. We have re-balanced skill and spell progression, we made skilling up more dependent on actually needing to play the game, we have added several automations to the game like autoharversting and autocrafting to make repetitive tasks a little less tedious. We are committed to address all these issues at a deeper level, and continuously strive to improve the gameplay experience.
So, whether or not players are macroing at the bloodwall is irrelevant. It's still cheating.
Because i see it often used in the posts above and in other posts too, can someone explain me where is the unattended macroing part of the Bloodwall ?
There is someone places himself afk but he is NOT macroing. And there is someone else who hits him while he is at the keyboard.. so where is the untattended macroing part ? If someone would set up a macro to hit someone and he would go afk he would kill the one he hits. These is not an attempt to excuse the bloodwall but i see people call these unattentedmacroing and nothing really of it is.
The probs about unattended macroing have been taken care of with an early patch in which hiting valid targets has become a requirement for skill up.
Acutally, AFK playing is implicitly prohibited, not just macroing. That's why AFK auto-running and swimming (using the in-game default key bindings) are prohibited. Darkfall is hampered by extremely poor game design and Aventurine has been trying to clean it up since the game launched:
Unattended macroing and unattended use of autorun and swimming against obstacles are also prohibited. We have taken great measures to limit macroing, to reward the players who are actually playing the game and allow them to catch up easily. We will continue working on making macroing and its effects irrelevant in Darkfall.
...
Thank you for Reading,
The Darkfall Team
__________________
Last edited by Tasos; 05-27-2009 at 06:09 PM..
Macroing and unattended playing have been and continue to be big problems in the game. They're problems because the game's skill system mechanics not only facillitates them, but encourage them. If it wasn't a problem, Aventurine wouldn't have to "continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary".
GS: Hackers, bots, cheaters and macro players: what plans do you have to eradicate these aspects?
We detect and permanently ban all cheaters. As a result cheating is very rare in the game. It certainly doesn’t affect the game world and the incidents we have are sporadic and far in between. We now ban at the account owner level which is a level deeper than the account level, so people won’t be tempted to use disposable accounts to cheat with.
About macroing: We have taken and will continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary. We have re-balanced skill and spell progression, we made skilling up more dependent on actually needing to play the game, we have added several automations to the game like autoharversting and autocrafting to make repetitive tasks a little less tedious. We are committed to address all these issues at a deeper level, and continuously strive to improve the gameplay experience.
So, whether or not players are macroing at the bloodwall is irrelevant. It's still cheating.
~Ripper
I agree totally rhinok.
That you needed to spell it out to someone who has played as much as Darth, says a lot about the kind of player that he is as well.
Because i see it often used in the posts above and in other posts too, can someone explain me where is the unattended macroing part of the Bloodwall ?
There is someone places himself afk but he is NOT macroing. And there is someone else who hits him while he is at the keyboard.. so where is the untattended macroing part ? If someone would set up a macro to hit someone and he would go afk he would kill the one he hits. These is not an attempt to excuse the bloodwall but i see people call these unattentedmacroing and nothing really of it is.
The probs about unattended macroing have been taken care of with an early patch in which hiting valid targets has become a requirement for skill up.
Acutally, AFK playing is implicitly prohibited, not just macroing. That's why AFK auto-running and swimming (using the in-game default key bindings) are prohibited. Darkfall is hampered by extremely poor game design and Aventurine has been trying to clean it up since the game launched:
Unattended macroing and unattended use of autorun and swimming against obstacles are also prohibited. We have taken great measures to limit macroing, to reward the players who are actually playing the game and allow them to catch up easily. We will continue working on making macroing and its effects irrelevant in Darkfall.
...
Thank you for Reading,
The Darkfall Team
__________________
Last edited by Tasos; 05-27-2009 at 06:09 PM..
Macroing and unattended playing have been and continue to be big problems in the game. They're problems because the game's skill system mechanics not only facillitates them, but encourage them. If it wasn't a problem, Aventurine wouldn't have to "continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary".
GS: Hackers, bots, cheaters and macro players: what plans do you have to eradicate these aspects?
We detect and permanently ban all cheaters. As a result cheating is very rare in the game. It certainly doesn’t affect the game world and the incidents we have are sporadic and far in between. We now ban at the account owner level which is a level deeper than the account level, so people won’t be tempted to use disposable accounts to cheat with.
About macroing: We have taken and will continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary. We have re-balanced skill and spell progression, we made skilling up more dependent on actually needing to play the game, we have added several automations to the game like autoharversting and autocrafting to make repetitive tasks a little less tedious. We are committed to address all these issues at a deeper level, and continuously strive to improve the gameplay experience.
So, whether or not players are macroing at the bloodwall is irrelevant. It's still cheating.
~Ripper
To clarify to you again.
I mentioned going afk, not autorun nor swimming against obstacles etc., no third party software, no macros involved.
Neither any of you quotes says going afk is cheating. If the bloodwalls wouldnt exist, players would just bind to enemy city and getting killed over and over, either.
The time he is afk, he misses getting the benefits of active playing like loot, skill up on "offensive" more valuable skills etc.
The player who is going afk, just being hit and "cheats" according to your opinion, is definetelly in disadvatange to those who attend and play the game.
There are even games out there you even not needed to login for skillup ..to put these in proportion..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Originally posted by DarthRaiden To clarify to you again. I mentioned going afk, not autorun nor swimming against obstacles etc., no third party software, no macros involved. Neither any of you quotes says going afk is cheating. If the bloodwalls wouldnt exist, players would just bind to enemy city and getting killed over and over, either. The time he is afk, he misses getting the benefits of active playing like loot, skill up on "offensive" more valuable skills etc. The player who is going afk, just being hit and "cheats" according to your opinion, is definetelly in disadvatange to those who attend and play the game.
There are even games out there you even not needed to login for skillup ..to put these in proportion..
Thanks Darth, that's all anyone really needs to know of what kind of game-play that you endorse.
Originally posted by DarthRaiden To clarify to you again. I mentioned going afk, not autorun nor swimming against obstacles etc., no third party software, no macros involved. Neither any of you quotes says going afk is cheating. If the bloodwalls wouldnt exist, players would just bind to enemy city and getting killed over and over, either. The time he is afk, he misses getting the benefits of active playing like loot, skill up on "offensive" more valuable skills etc. The player who is going afk, just being hit and "cheats" according to your opinion, is definetelly in disadvatange to those who attend and play the game.
There are even games out there you even not needed to login for skillup ..to put these in proportion..
Thanks Darth, that's all anyone really needs to know of what kind of game-play that you endorse.
You resorting to personal statements because you fail to prove objectively the point about cheating.
Going afk isn't unattended macroing or qualifies being called as 'cheating'.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Originally posted by DarthRaiden To clarify to you again. I mentioned going afk, not autorun nor swimming against obstacles etc., no third party software, no macros involved. Neither any of you quotes says going afk is cheating. If the bloodwalls wouldnt exist, players would just bind to enemy city and getting killed over and over, either. The time he is afk, he misses getting the benefits of active playing like loot, skill up on "offensive" more valuable skills etc. The player who is going afk, just being hit and "cheats" according to your opinion, is definetelly in disadvatange to those who attend and play the game.
There are even games out there you even not needed to login for skillup ..to put these in proportion..
Thanks Darth, that's all anyone really needs to know of what kind of game-play that you endorse.
You resorting to personal statements because you fail to prove objectively the point about cheating.
Going afk isn't unattended macroing or qualifies being called as 'cheating'.
Going AFK to allow your clan mates to level their skills up on you and so that you raise your own defensive skills is semantically the same as AFK skill macroing or unattended, macroless skill leveling like using autorun and swimming into objects. If one is cheating, then the others are. It's not my opinion, it's Aventurine's as indicated in the link above. That's why I stated "AFK playing is implicitly prohibited," They haven't explicitly forbidden blood wall play at this time, but all of their policies imply it's prohibited.
Going AFK to allow your clan mates to level their skills up on you and so that you raise your own defensive skills is semantically the same as AFK skill macroing or unattended, macroless skill leveling like using autorun and swimming into objects. If one is cheating, then the others are. It's not my opinion, it's Aventurine's as indicated in the link above. That's why I stated "AFK playing is implicitly prohibited," They haven't explicitly forbidden blood wall play at this time, but all of their policies imply it's prohibited. ~Ripper
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited, you can't prove it.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hit is something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
Even if they would change policy regarding being afk and change game mechanic, - what i hardly believe -, still it isnt 'cheating' right now.
I can even throw in a provoking thesis , if you even arrange the situation and tell others "you can hit me, while i am on the loo" it could be intepreted as "sparring" and that is actually a promised feature.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Going AFK to allow your clan mates to level their skills up on you and so that you raise your own defensive skills is semantically the same as AFK skill macroing or unattended, macroless skill leveling like using autorun and swimming into objects. If one is cheating, then the others are. It's not my opinion, it's Aventurine's as indicated in the link above. That's why I stated "AFK playing is implicitly prohibited," They haven't explicitly forbidden blood wall play at this time, but all of their policies imply it's prohibited. ~Ripper
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited, you can't prove it.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hit is something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
That's what "implcit" means, Darth. It's against the rules, even if it's not spelled out. I did say they were afk playing and I linked to Tasos post saying they were prohibited. If Aventurine prohibits it, then it's against the rules. As such, it's cheating. Since that type of AFK playing is cheating, per Aventurine, it implies that other types of macroless AFK playing and skill leveling would also be prohibited. Aventurine has refined and defined their policies on AFK play several times since launch. I can't believe you're even arguing this, since you clearly don't have any true point, especially in the face of both logic and evidence. You're arguing just like all those others who said macroing wasn't prohibited, then afk macroing was the only kind prohibited, now unattended palying using default keyboard settings is prohibited, but you're still arguing against it.
Regardless, Stradden has sent Tasos an email on the subject, since bloodwall usage was detailed in a news post, which caused pretty much the same controversy as seen in this thread:
It would be interesting to have someone from MMORPG.com comment on their decision to post this article.
Ok,, I'm here.
Not personally being familiar with the ins and outs of Darkfall's rules, I honestly missed the fact that there was a possibility that the contents of this article described behavior that was not sanctioned by the developers. As you can imagine, it is difficult to be instantly aware of the specific rules in every game on our list.
Of course we don't want to promote cheating in games. Such things are a serious problem within the industry and can completely ruin the integrity and competitive spirit of these games.
As a result of the controversey surrounding the article, and wanting to be fair to both the article's author and to Aventurine and its players, I have emailed Tasos to simply ask the question of whether or not the activities described in the article are against the game's RoC.
If the aforementioned issues turn out to actually be against the rules we will, of course, remove the article from publication, take appropriate internal action and issue an apology and a correction.
Again, it is never our intent to promote activities thata re against a game's rulset. As you can imagine though, with a game as controversial as Darkfall as been, it is difficult to know what is and is not considered acceptable behavior b the game's developers.
It'll be interesting to see what Tasos' response is, assuming he responds. Bloodwall usage is so rampant that enforcing penalties against those who abuse the mechanic would decimate Darkfall's already low player base, but enforcing it would be the "right" thing to do and would be consistent with the other policies they've publicized.
Going AFK to allow your clan mates to level their skills up on you and so that you raise your own defensive skills is semantically the same as AFK skill macroing or unattended, macroless skill leveling like using autorun and swimming into objects. If one is cheating, then the others are. It's not my opinion, it's Aventurine's as indicated in the link above. That's why I stated "AFK playing is implicitly prohibited," They haven't explicitly forbidden blood wall play at this time, but all of their policies imply it's prohibited. ~Ripper
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hitis something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
lol um............ Darth, a Blood wall is something you have control over. People are actively going to an area designated for them to go afk at so that they can build up defensive skills while afk, while others skill up offensive skills risk free. The intent IS in fact afk play. It isn't oh I wanted to go grab a ciggy real fast so I went afk, no you went to a spot in a clan city designated for AFK skillups lol. No matter how you are trying to spin it, your wrong.
You could be entirely ignored, but that isn't the intent. Aside from the intent, you know you won't be ignored because they have to rotate which afk players there hitting because killing them is bad.
Everyone could leave, but they will come back seeing as the bloodwall is a risk free way to skillup. And again the intent was to get some gains AFK lol. No way around the intent I'm afraid.
Lastly, you do know because the first thing most do when they come back from afk is check the progress of there skillups. So yeah you are even wrong about that lol.
Going AFK to allow your clan mates to level their skills up on you and so that you raise your own defensive skills is semantically the same as AFK skill macroing or unattended, macroless skill leveling like using autorun and swimming into objects. If one is cheating, then the others are. It's not my opinion, it's Aventurine's as indicated in the link above. That's why I stated "AFK playing is implicitly prohibited," They haven't explicitly forbidden blood wall play at this time, but all of their policies imply it's prohibited. ~Ripper
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hitis something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
lol um............ Darth, a Blood wall is something you have control over. People are actively going to an area designated for them to go afk at so that they can build up defensive skills while afk, while others skill up offensive skills risk free. The intent IS in fact afk play. It isn't oh I wanted to go grab a ciggy real fast so I went afk, no you went to a spot in a clan city designated for AFK skillups lol. No matter how you are trying to spin it, your wrong.
You could be entirely ignored, but that isn't the intent. Aside from the intent, you know you won't be ignored because they have to rotate which afk players there hitting because killing them is bad.
Everyone could leave, but they will come back seeing as the bloodwall is a risk free way to skillup. And again the intent was to get some gains AFK lol. No way around the intent I'm afraid.
Lastly, you do know because the first thing most do when they come back from afk is check the progress of there skillups. So yeah you are even wrong about that lol.
You reply too fast or i hit "post message too early" , i am not fast typing and fear timeouts, thats why i add always to my posts.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Going AFK to allow your clan mates to level their skills up on you and so that you raise your own defensive skills is semantically the same as AFK skill macroing or unattended, macroless skill leveling like using autorun and swimming into objects. If one is cheating, then the others are. It's not my opinion, it's Aventurine's as indicated in the link above. That's why I stated "AFK playing is implicitly prohibited," They haven't explicitly forbidden blood wall play at this time, but all of their policies imply it's prohibited. ~Ripper
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hitis something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
lol um............ Darth, a Blood wall is something you have control over. People are actively going to an area designated for them to go afk at so that they can build up defensive skills while afk, while others skill up offensive skills risk free. The intent IS in fact afk play. It isn't oh I wanted to go grab a ciggy real fast so I went afk, no you went to a spot in a clan city designated for AFK skillups lol. No matter how you are trying to spin it, your wrong.
You could be entirely ignored, but that isn't the intent. Aside from the intent, you know you won't be ignored because they have to rotate which afk players there hitting because killing them is bad.
Everyone could leave, but they will come back seeing as the bloodwall is a risk free way to skillup. And again the intent was to get some gains AFK lol. No way around the intent I'm afraid.
Lastly, you do know because the first thing most do when they come back from afk is check the progress of there skillups. So yeah you are even wrong about that lol.
You reply too fast or i hit "post message too early" , i am not fast typing and fear timeouts, thats why i add always to my posts.
It doesn't matter, because you're still wrong. Nobody's talking about being AFK for a few minutes and you know it. Perhaps the easiest solution would be for Aventurine to simply institute an automatically timed logout on inactivity like other games do. Then you wouldn't have anything to argue about, since the only way to circumvent it would be to use unattended macros, which are explicitly prohibited.
Going AFK to allow your clan mates to level their skills up on you and so that you raise your own defensive skills is semantically the same as AFK skill macroing or unattended, macroless skill leveling like using autorun and swimming into objects. If one is cheating, then the others are. It's not my opinion, it's Aventurine's as indicated in the link above. That's why I stated "AFK playing is implicitly prohibited," They haven't explicitly forbidden blood wall play at this time, but all of their policies imply it's prohibited. ~Ripper
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hitis something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
lol um............ Darth, a Blood wall is something you have control over. People are actively going to an area designated for them to go afk at so that they can build up defensive skills while afk, while others skill up offensive skills risk free. The intent IS in fact afk play. It isn't oh I wanted to go grab a ciggy real fast so I went afk, no you went to a spot in a clan city designated for AFK skillups lol. No matter how you are trying to spin it, your wrong.
You could be entirely ignored, but that isn't the intent. Aside from the intent, you know you won't be ignored because they have to rotate which afk players there hitting because killing them is bad.
Everyone could leave, but they will come back seeing as the bloodwall is a risk free way to skillup. And again the intent was to get some gains AFK lol. No way around the intent I'm afraid.
Lastly, you do know because the first thing most do when they come back from afk is check the progress of there skillups. So yeah you are even wrong about that lol.
You reply too fast or i hit "post message too early" , i am not fast typing and fear timeouts, thats why i add always to my posts.
It doesn't matter, because you're still wrong. Nobody's talking about being AFK for a few minutes and you know it. Perhaps the easiest solution would be for Aventurine to simply institute an automatically timed logout on inactivity like other games do. Then you wouldn't have anything to argue about, since the only way to circumvent it would be to use unattended macros, which are explicitly prohibited.
~Ripper
I can't think of an MMO that hasn't had auto logout after a bit of none activity. Even UO has it and that MMO came out in the 90's.
It amazes me sometimes how many simple and common things AV missed/overlooked/forgot when developing DFO
Going AFK to allow your clan mates to level their skills up on you and so that you raise your own defensive skills is semantically the same as AFK skill macroing or unattended, macroless skill leveling like using autorun and swimming into objects. If one is cheating, then the others are. It's not my opinion, it's Aventurine's as indicated in the link above. That's why I stated "AFK playing is implicitly prohibited," They haven't explicitly forbidden blood wall play at this time, but all of their policies imply it's prohibited. ~Ripper
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hitis something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
lol um............ Darth, a Blood wall is something you have control over. People are actively going to an area designated for them to go afk at so that they can build up defensive skills while afk, while others skill up offensive skills risk free. The intent IS in fact afk play. It isn't oh I wanted to go grab a ciggy real fast so I went afk, no you went to a spot in a clan city designated for AFK skillups lol. No matter how you are trying to spin it, your wrong.
You could be entirely ignored, but that isn't the intent. Aside from the intent, you know you won't be ignored because they have to rotate which afk players there hitting because killing them is bad.
Everyone could leave, but they will come back seeing as the bloodwall is a risk free way to skillup. And again the intent was to get some gains AFK lol. No way around the intent I'm afraid.
Lastly, you do know because the first thing most do when they come back from afk is check the progress of there skillups. So yeah you are even wrong about that lol.
You reply too fast or i hit "post message too early" , i am not fast typing and fear timeouts, thats why i add always to my posts.
It doesn't matter, because you're still wrong. Nobody's talking about being AFK for a few minutes and you know it. Perhaps the easiest solution would be for Aventurine to simply institute an automatically timed logout on inactivity like other games do. Then you wouldn't have anything to argue about, since the only way to circumvent it would be to use unattended macros, which are explicitly prohibited.
~Ripper
I can't think of an MMO that hasn't had auto logout after a bit of none activity. Even UO has it and that MMO came out in the 90's.
It amazes me sometimes how many simple and common things AV missed/overlooked/forgot when developing DFO
Just one more example of the poor design I keep mentioning and how it not only facillitates, but encourages afk playing and macroing. It's pathetic.
I can't think of an MMO that hasn't had auto logout after a bit of none activity. Even UO has it and that MMO came out in the 90's.
It amazes me sometimes how many simple and common things AV missed/overlooked/forgot when developing DFO
Just one more example of hte poor design I keep mentioning and how it not only facillitates, but encourages afk playing and macroing. It's pathetic.
~Ripper
Actually unless they have recently changed (like in the last 2 weeks) EQ doesn't log you out. I have forgotten and left a character logged on there for over a day sitting doing nothing, so it is not just Av's short-sightedness
Now that I think about it several other games I have played didn't log you out for loitering. In fact if you are doing something like macroing then even WoW won't log you out. The servers would see you doing an action and keep you logged in.
Of course after awhile they set off alarms and the GM's investigate. If you don't respond then welcome to the world of the Blizzard banstick
Because i see it often used in the posts above and in other posts too, can someone explain me where is the unattended macroing part of the Bloodwall ?
There is someone places himself afk but he is NOT macroing. And there is someone else who hits him while he is at the keyboard.. so where is the untattended macroing part ? If someone would set up a macro to hit someone and he would go afk he would kill the one he hits. These is not an attempt to excuse the bloodwall but i see people call these unattentedmacroing and nothing really of it is.
The probs about unattended macroing have been taken care of with an early patch in which hiting valid targets has become a requirement for skill up.
Ah, I see, it is not unattended macroing it is unattended skill gain. Letting someone hit you so you can gain your defense skills up. And don't BS yourself and say people don't macro hitting others lol, do not forget I played this game and I seen this happen all the time. Yes hitting a valid target was patched in but hitting an afk char is valid target. In DF you can gain and max out skills while AFK, like I said earlier, atleast in level based games you actually have to move and quest (or grind) to level up. Sadly this is a big fundamental flaw in a game with massive potential, but when the apple is rotten at the core sadly it all falls apart and rots.
Comments
I like what I read OP. I've played Darkfall about 2 and a half week now. And Im enjoying it very much.
Mostly skilled logging and mining though for making arrows. And then leveled archery on skeletons (used to live in yssam near skeletons, got a new hamlet some days ago on mainlands). And also bloodwalling, but then Im lvling polearm too. Its just on like 30 atm while Archery is about 50-55. So its really slow since I dont have all the time in the world with work gf and all, but I still enjoy it alot!
Acutally, AFK playing is implicitly prohibited, not just macroing. That's why AFK auto-running and swimming (using the in-game default key bindings) are prohibited. Darkfall is hampered by extremely poor game design and Aventurine has been trying to clean it up since the game launched:
Unattended macroing and unattended use of autorun and swimming against obstacles are also prohibited. We have taken great measures to limit macroing, to reward the players who are actually playing the game and allow them to catch up easily. We will continue working on making macroing and its effects irrelevant in Darkfall.
Thank you for Reading,
The Darkfall Team
Last edited by Tasos; 05-27-2009 at 06:09 PM..
Macroing and unattended playing have been and continue to be big problems in the game. They're problems because the game's skill system mechanics not only facillitates them, but encourage them. If it wasn't a problem, Aventurine wouldn't have to "continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary".
GS: Hackers, bots, cheaters and macro players: what plans do you have to eradicate these aspects?
We detect and permanently ban all cheaters. As a result cheating is very rare in the game. It certainly doesn’t affect the game world and the incidents we have are sporadic and far in between. We now ban at the account owner level which is a level deeper than the account level, so people won’t be tempted to use disposable accounts to cheat with.
About macroing: We have taken and will continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary. We have re-balanced skill and spell progression, we made skilling up more dependent on actually needing to play the game, we have added several automations to the game like autoharversting and autocrafting to make repetitive tasks a little less tedious. We are committed to address all these issues at a deeper level, and continuously strive to improve the gameplay experience.
So, whether or not players are macroing at the bloodwall is irrelevant. It's still cheating.
~Ripper
Acutally, AFK playing is implicitly prohibited, not just macroing. That's why AFK auto-running and swimming (using the in-game default key bindings) are prohibited. Darkfall is hampered by extremely poor game design and Aventurine has been trying to clean it up since the game launched:
Unattended macroing and unattended use of autorun and swimming against obstacles are also prohibited. We have taken great measures to limit macroing, to reward the players who are actually playing the game and allow them to catch up easily. We will continue working on making macroing and its effects irrelevant in Darkfall.
Thank you for Reading,
The Darkfall Team
Last edited by Tasos; 05-27-2009 at 06:09 PM..
Macroing and unattended playing have been and continue to be big problems in the game. They're problems because the game's skill system mechanics not only facillitates them, but encourage them. If it wasn't a problem, Aventurine wouldn't have to "continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary".
GS: Hackers, bots, cheaters and macro players: what plans do you have to eradicate these aspects?
We detect and permanently ban all cheaters. As a result cheating is very rare in the game. It certainly doesn’t affect the game world and the incidents we have are sporadic and far in between. We now ban at the account owner level which is a level deeper than the account level, so people won’t be tempted to use disposable accounts to cheat with.
About macroing: We have taken and will continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary. We have re-balanced skill and spell progression, we made skilling up more dependent on actually needing to play the game, we have added several automations to the game like autoharversting and autocrafting to make repetitive tasks a little less tedious. We are committed to address all these issues at a deeper level, and continuously strive to improve the gameplay experience.
So, whether or not players are macroing at the bloodwall is irrelevant. It's still cheating.
~Ripper
I agree totally rhinok.
That you needed to spell it out to someone who has played as much as Darth, says a lot about the kind of player that he is as well.
Acutally, AFK playing is implicitly prohibited, not just macroing. That's why AFK auto-running and swimming (using the in-game default key bindings) are prohibited. Darkfall is hampered by extremely poor game design and Aventurine has been trying to clean it up since the game launched:
Unattended macroing and unattended use of autorun and swimming against obstacles are also prohibited. We have taken great measures to limit macroing, to reward the players who are actually playing the game and allow them to catch up easily. We will continue working on making macroing and its effects irrelevant in Darkfall.
Thank you for Reading,
The Darkfall Team
Last edited by Tasos; 05-27-2009 at 06:09 PM..
Macroing and unattended playing have been and continue to be big problems in the game. They're problems because the game's skill system mechanics not only facillitates them, but encourage them. If it wasn't a problem, Aventurine wouldn't have to "continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary".
GS: Hackers, bots, cheaters and macro players: what plans do you have to eradicate these aspects?
We detect and permanently ban all cheaters. As a result cheating is very rare in the game. It certainly doesn’t affect the game world and the incidents we have are sporadic and far in between. We now ban at the account owner level which is a level deeper than the account level, so people won’t be tempted to use disposable accounts to cheat with.
About macroing: We have taken and will continue taking steps to make macroing unnecessary. We have re-balanced skill and spell progression, we made skilling up more dependent on actually needing to play the game, we have added several automations to the game like autoharversting and autocrafting to make repetitive tasks a little less tedious. We are committed to address all these issues at a deeper level, and continuously strive to improve the gameplay experience.
So, whether or not players are macroing at the bloodwall is irrelevant. It's still cheating.
~Ripper
To clarify to you again.
I mentioned going afk, not autorun nor swimming against obstacles etc., no third party software, no macros involved.
Neither any of you quotes says going afk is cheating. If the bloodwalls wouldnt exist, players would just bind to enemy city and getting killed over and over, either.
The time he is afk, he misses getting the benefits of active playing like loot, skill up on "offensive" more valuable skills etc.
The player who is going afk, just being hit and "cheats" according to your opinion, is definetelly in disadvatange to those who attend and play the game.
There are even games out there you even not needed to login for skillup ..to put these in proportion..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Thanks Darth, that's all anyone really needs to know of what kind of game-play that you endorse.
Thanks Darth, that's all anyone really needs to know of what kind of game-play that you endorse.
You resorting to personal statements because you fail to prove objectively the point about cheating.
Going afk isn't unattended macroing or qualifies being called as 'cheating'.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
You resorting to personal statements because you fail to prove objectively the point about cheating.
Going afk isn't unattended macroing or qualifies being called as 'cheating'.
Going AFK to allow your clan mates to level their skills up on you and so that you raise your own defensive skills is semantically the same as AFK skill macroing or unattended, macroless skill leveling like using autorun and swimming into objects. If one is cheating, then the others are. It's not my opinion, it's Aventurine's as indicated in the link above. That's why I stated "AFK playing is implicitly prohibited," They haven't explicitly forbidden blood wall play at this time, but all of their policies imply it's prohibited.
~Ripper
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited, you can't prove it.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hit is something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
Even if they would change policy regarding being afk and change game mechanic, - what i hardly believe -, still it isnt 'cheating' right now.
I can even throw in a provoking thesis , if you even arrange the situation and tell others "you can hit me, while i am on the loo" it could be intepreted as "sparring" and that is actually a promised feature.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited, you can't prove it.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hit is something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
That's what "implcit" means, Darth. It's against the rules, even if it's not spelled out. I did say they were afk playing and I linked to Tasos post saying they were prohibited. If Aventurine prohibits it, then it's against the rules. As such, it's cheating. Since that type of AFK playing is cheating, per Aventurine, it implies that other types of macroless AFK playing and skill leveling would also be prohibited. Aventurine has refined and defined their policies on AFK play several times since launch. I can't believe you're even arguing this, since you clearly don't have any true point, especially in the face of both logic and evidence. You're arguing just like all those others who said macroing wasn't prohibited, then afk macroing was the only kind prohibited, now unattended palying using default keyboard settings is prohibited, but you're still arguing against it.
Regardless, Stradden has sent Tasos an email on the subject, since bloodwall usage was detailed in a news post, which caused pretty much the same controversy as seen in this thread:
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Ok,, I'm here.
Not personally being familiar with the ins and outs of Darkfall's rules, I honestly missed the fact that there was a possibility that the contents of this article described behavior that was not sanctioned by the developers. As you can imagine, it is difficult to be instantly aware of the specific rules in every game on our list.
Of course we don't want to promote cheating in games. Such things are a serious problem within the industry and can completely ruin the integrity and competitive spirit of these games.
As a result of the controversey surrounding the article, and wanting to be fair to both the article's author and to Aventurine and its players, I have emailed Tasos to simply ask the question of whether or not the activities described in the article are against the game's RoC.
If the aforementioned issues turn out to actually be against the rules we will, of course, remove the article from publication, take appropriate internal action and issue an apology and a correction.
Again, it is never our intent to promote activities thata re against a game's rulset. As you can imagine though, with a game as controversial as Darkfall as been, it is difficult to know what is and is not considered acceptable behavior b the game's developers.
Sorry for the confusion.
Jon Wood
ReplyQuote
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
It'll be interesting to see what Tasos' response is, assuming he responds. Bloodwall usage is so rampant that enforcing penalties against those who abuse the mechanic would decimate Darkfall's already low player base, but enforcing it would be the "right" thing to do and would be consistent with the other policies they've publicized.
~Ripper
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hitis something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
lol um............ Darth, a Blood wall is something you have control over. People are actively going to an area designated for them to go afk at so that they can build up defensive skills while afk, while others skill up offensive skills risk free. The intent IS in fact afk play. It isn't oh I wanted to go grab a ciggy real fast so I went afk, no you went to a spot in a clan city designated for AFK skillups lol. No matter how you are trying to spin it, your wrong.
You could be entirely ignored, but that isn't the intent. Aside from the intent, you know you won't be ignored because they have to rotate which afk players there hitting because killing them is bad.
Everyone could leave, but they will come back seeing as the bloodwall is a risk free way to skillup. And again the intent was to get some gains AFK lol. No way around the intent I'm afraid.
Lastly, you do know because the first thing most do when they come back from afk is check the progress of there skillups. So yeah you are even wrong about that lol.
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hitis something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
lol um............ Darth, a Blood wall is something you have control over. People are actively going to an area designated for them to go afk at so that they can build up defensive skills while afk, while others skill up offensive skills risk free. The intent IS in fact afk play. It isn't oh I wanted to go grab a ciggy real fast so I went afk, no you went to a spot in a clan city designated for AFK skillups lol. No matter how you are trying to spin it, your wrong.
You could be entirely ignored, but that isn't the intent. Aside from the intent, you know you won't be ignored because they have to rotate which afk players there hitting because killing them is bad.
Everyone could leave, but they will come back seeing as the bloodwall is a risk free way to skillup. And again the intent was to get some gains AFK lol. No way around the intent I'm afraid.
Lastly, you do know because the first thing most do when they come back from afk is check the progress of there skillups. So yeah you are even wrong about that lol.
You reply too fast or i hit "post message too early" , i am not fast typing and fear timeouts, thats why i add always to my posts.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hitis something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
lol um............ Darth, a Blood wall is something you have control over. People are actively going to an area designated for them to go afk at so that they can build up defensive skills while afk, while others skill up offensive skills risk free. The intent IS in fact afk play. It isn't oh I wanted to go grab a ciggy real fast so I went afk, no you went to a spot in a clan city designated for AFK skillups lol. No matter how you are trying to spin it, your wrong.
You could be entirely ignored, but that isn't the intent. Aside from the intent, you know you won't be ignored because they have to rotate which afk players there hitting because killing them is bad.
Everyone could leave, but they will come back seeing as the bloodwall is a risk free way to skillup. And again the intent was to get some gains AFK lol. No way around the intent I'm afraid.
Lastly, you do know because the first thing most do when they come back from afk is check the progress of there skillups. So yeah you are even wrong about that lol.
You reply too fast or i hit "post message too early" , i am not fast typing and fear timeouts, thats why i add always to my posts.
It doesn't matter, because you're still wrong. Nobody's talking about being AFK for a few minutes and you know it. Perhaps the easiest solution would be for Aventurine to simply institute an automatically timed logout on inactivity like other games do. Then you wouldn't have anything to argue about, since the only way to circumvent it would be to use unattended macros, which are explicitly prohibited.
~Ripper
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hitis something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
lol um............ Darth, a Blood wall is something you have control over. People are actively going to an area designated for them to go afk at so that they can build up defensive skills while afk, while others skill up offensive skills risk free. The intent IS in fact afk play. It isn't oh I wanted to go grab a ciggy real fast so I went afk, no you went to a spot in a clan city designated for AFK skillups lol. No matter how you are trying to spin it, your wrong.
You could be entirely ignored, but that isn't the intent. Aside from the intent, you know you won't be ignored because they have to rotate which afk players there hitting because killing them is bad.
Everyone could leave, but they will come back seeing as the bloodwall is a risk free way to skillup. And again the intent was to get some gains AFK lol. No way around the intent I'm afraid.
Lastly, you do know because the first thing most do when they come back from afk is check the progress of there skillups. So yeah you are even wrong about that lol.
You reply too fast or i hit "post message too early" , i am not fast typing and fear timeouts, thats why i add always to my posts.
It doesn't matter, because you're still wrong. Nobody's talking about being AFK for a few minutes and you know it. Perhaps the easiest solution would be for Aventurine to simply institute an automatically timed logout on inactivity like other games do. Then you wouldn't have anything to argue about, since the only way to circumvent it would be to use unattended macros, which are explicitly prohibited.
~Ripper
I can't think of an MMO that hasn't had auto logout after a bit of none activity. Even UO has it and that MMO came out in the 90's.
It amazes me sometimes how many simple and common things AV missed/overlooked/forgot when developing DFO
You just claim it is "implicity" prohibited.
Running, swimming could be interpreted as afk playing .
Just being afk is of different quality and hardly can it be considered "playing". The circumstance that you being hitis something you have no control over it and can't induce it. You could be entirely ignored and not being hit. Everyone could leave, you don't know , you afk.
lol um............ Darth, a Blood wall is something you have control over. People are actively going to an area designated for them to go afk at so that they can build up defensive skills while afk, while others skill up offensive skills risk free. The intent IS in fact afk play. It isn't oh I wanted to go grab a ciggy real fast so I went afk, no you went to a spot in a clan city designated for AFK skillups lol. No matter how you are trying to spin it, your wrong.
You could be entirely ignored, but that isn't the intent. Aside from the intent, you know you won't be ignored because they have to rotate which afk players there hitting because killing them is bad.
Everyone could leave, but they will come back seeing as the bloodwall is a risk free way to skillup. And again the intent was to get some gains AFK lol. No way around the intent I'm afraid.
Lastly, you do know because the first thing most do when they come back from afk is check the progress of there skillups. So yeah you are even wrong about that lol.
You reply too fast or i hit "post message too early" , i am not fast typing and fear timeouts, thats why i add always to my posts.
It doesn't matter, because you're still wrong. Nobody's talking about being AFK for a few minutes and you know it. Perhaps the easiest solution would be for Aventurine to simply institute an automatically timed logout on inactivity like other games do. Then you wouldn't have anything to argue about, since the only way to circumvent it would be to use unattended macros, which are explicitly prohibited.
~Ripper
I can't think of an MMO that hasn't had auto logout after a bit of none activity. Even UO has it and that MMO came out in the 90's.
It amazes me sometimes how many simple and common things AV missed/overlooked/forgot when developing DFO
Just one more example of the poor design I keep mentioning and how it not only facillitates, but encourages afk playing and macroing. It's pathetic.
~Ripper
I can't think of an MMO that hasn't had auto logout after a bit of none activity. Even UO has it and that MMO came out in the 90's.
It amazes me sometimes how many simple and common things AV missed/overlooked/forgot when developing DFO
Just one more example of hte poor design I keep mentioning and how it not only facillitates, but encourages afk playing and macroing. It's pathetic.
~Ripper
Actually unless they have recently changed (like in the last 2 weeks) EQ doesn't log you out. I have forgotten and left a character logged on there for over a day sitting doing nothing, so it is not just Av's short-sightedness
Now that I think about it several other games I have played didn't log you out for loitering. In fact if you are doing something like macroing then even WoW won't log you out. The servers would see you doing an action and keep you logged in.
Of course after awhile they set off alarms and the GM's investigate. If you don't respond then welcome to the world of the Blizzard banstick
Ah, I see, it is not unattended macroing it is unattended skill gain. Letting someone hit you so you can gain your defense skills up. And don't BS yourself and say people don't macro hitting others lol, do not forget I played this game and I seen this happen all the time. Yes hitting a valid target was patched in but hitting an afk char is valid target. In DF you can gain and max out skills while AFK, like I said earlier, atleast in level based games you actually have to move and quest (or grind) to level up. Sadly this is a big fundamental flaw in a game with massive potential, but when the apple is rotten at the core sadly it all falls apart and rots.