Since this thread is veering off slightly into the realms of "what I'm doing to see me through the MMO drought", I thought I'd contribute to the minor derail with some of the ways that I'm spending my "gametime" now that I'm playing barely playing MMOs.
Rediscovering older SRPGs like KOTOR, KOTOR2, Morrowind, Oblivion, etc.
Wii Fit + Motion Plus. I know, it's not really proper gaming but dagnabbit, it's fun.
Super Stardust on the PSP. I don't know why it's so addictive; it's like catnip to me at the moment.
Originally posted by grandpagamer Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.
Somewhat off-topic, but the Wii is a fantastic system with a wonderfully innovative control system. They're starting to move away from kiddy-centric games and toward some really fantastic games. I highly recommend it.
At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward, put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon. Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment, MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment, one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against. These aren't games, they have no end, no story, no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment. It is a Machine, built for one reason, to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.
All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was. Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction, good luck.
At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward, put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon. Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment, MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment, one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against. These aren't games, they have no end, no story, no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment. It is a Machine, built for one reason, to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.
All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was. Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction, good luck.
This is a very good post.
Yeah, that post made me lol too, very well put; I pretty much realized this back in my WoW playing days (of course it would be no other game to point out this fact more than WoW) and I quit for good.
In any other game something that becomes repetitive would spell like I said certain doom for the game critically and financially, but MMOs seem to get away with it time and time again.
I have a friend that lately tried to get me into Aion, so I tried the Chinese version with him, and "my god" is that game an empty meaningless grindfest, the PvP is good but by the time you get their you feel like you should be collecting social security. Not even my friend that's a big fan of Asian MMOs could deal with leveling anymore and quit half way through. Now I hope when it comes out here in the states the developers will get smart and cut it down a lot for western audience, because I don't see that game doing well here if it stays the way it is.
(I know I said I didn't want to get into it but fuck it, felt like it needed to be said).
Oh and here's another gripe I've developed playing MMOs, the level of freedom with what to do in them. One of the advantages of playing a video game is you can do things in them that wouldn't be acceptable in society. Yeah like jacking cars, blowing up towns (thinking of Megaton in Fallout 3), looting and plundering, but when you have an MMO all of a sudden ganking players because a big thing. In a video game you can escape the rules that bind society over what's fair and what isn't, but in an MMO since you're dealing with other players, there is a demand for fairness. Killing and looting players is frowned upon, sniping players off roof tops is considered unfair (anyone remember roof top ganking in WoW). You can't pickpocket them, you can't turn on your own faction or cheat ppl.
Now my understanding is that MMOs are nothing more than video games, and sometimes the games need to be a bit unfair if players are willing to have any fun.
Now if the PvE had any actual brain behind it instead of being one endless grind over nothing; I could be satisfied with it. But there's no brains behind PvE so the only challenge I see in these games is the PvP.
And unfortunately, since these games are such a major time sink that ends up getting players way too attached to their avatars. There has to be a level of fairness in it to keep it civil. Something that goes against everything that stands for playing a video game in general.....being civil...0o
Sadly, I'm starting to agree. I'm starting to realize that, for the most part, I don't really like most of the people that play MMOs. Most of my RL friends don't play them, so I'm usually paying a monthly fee to subject myself to huge groups of random strangers that are, for lack of a better term, huge douchebags, all playing games that like you said, would be a joke if they were single-player. Then again, you have a Max Headroom avatar, so I'm guessing you're around my age. Maybe we're just getting older, and this junk just doesn't hold the same appeal that it once did?
At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward, put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon. Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment, MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment, one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against. These aren't games, they have no end, no story, no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment. It is a Machine, built for one reason, to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.
All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was. Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction, good luck.
One of the more intelligent posts I've ever seen on this board.
Hard to believe that people (myself included) complain how much these games suck, but then they're right there to try the next bright shiny release in the foolish hope that it'll be different (or god forbid, fun).
Ugh, yeah I'm tired of this genre. All it took was a replay of The Witcher and Morrowind to remind me how woefully inadequate mmorpg's are when compared to actual games.
Originally posted by grandpagamer Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.
Somewhat off-topic, but the Wii is a fantastic system with a wonderfully innovative control system. They're starting to move away from kiddy-centric games and toward some really fantastic games. I highly recommend it.
Yep, and when Deadspace Extraction releases in September, that will be the last nail in the PC gaming coffin for me.
Ever since I purchased the Nyko Perfect Shot, shooters on the Wii have gone to a whole new level. It looks like a gun, feels like a gun, spring trigger. Really nice. And only $15. That's one month of a boring MMO. Playing Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles using the gun instead of the Wii remote or zapper is a 180 degree turnaround in fun. Also, coming up we've got:
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles
Resident Evil Archives: Resident Evil
Metroid: Other M
Dead Space Extraction
Cursed Mountain
Can't wait to try them. Thank God for Gamefly.
Besides, I feel less guilty about spending time playing games when I can fold in a little bit of exersize in with it.
On topic, I've grown up playing some games, ( mostly like everyone of my generation ), from the very beginning @ the commodore amiga 64 with Kickoff, past the gameboy generation with pokemon, fifa, Playstation times, with Final Fantasy and Tomb Raider, until I fell into MMORPGs and FPS's.
Played almost every MMORPG out there, and I'm tired. I'm always downloading mmorpgs, even if I've tried them a couple of weeks before and didn't like it, just to see if I can hang to hit for some time.
I just can't seem to find any interest for a long time in these mmos today.
Perhaps we need something different, perhaps I need to try something different relatively to MMOs.
I sold my Playstation 1 and a short while after, my PS2. I won't disgrace myself buying another console. I don't have interest on them for a long time either.
I suppose I'm stuck with the games I have, because I don't have anything suitable for my taste.
The problem with mmos is that it has become more of a mission for devs on how to make money rather than how to make an epic mmo. I'm not tired of mmos but I'm really disappointed that we have not been receiving anything different since WOW thus far. I'm sure someday we'll get something really great but by that time alot people probably will have grown tired of paying monthly fees for rehashed ideas.
I did get tired so I bought an Xbox360 about 500 bucks in games, a live account and it was fun. Hell it's still fun even though I've come back to my two favorite MMOs. All it took was a couple months off and for me to try two 21 day trials of my favorite sandbox games Eve online and Saga of Ryzom.
Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.
I personally don't know much about the Wii but as a player that does enjoy a nice session of console gaming now.
I will say that console games have come a long way. Games like Mass Effect and Fable II have alot to offer a player like me.
Also the Xbox live arcade is fantastic so many retro Atari games that have been "evolved".
From Gears of War to Castlevania: SotN to Mass Effect to Pacman CE im having a freaking blast.
I'm sure anyone could say similar things about the ps3 and wii, these gaming machines are really nice to have to break up that burnout we get in MMO's.
I've noticed that the MMO scene just isnt holding my attention anymore i jump between ROM GW and Lineage 2 because i get bored of on or the other and have to go play the other ones. actually at this point I've been playing more single player story FPS games they seem to feel a little more involved in that i have an actual story that progresses. too much in MMO are the quest just kill theis go get this etc... but i guess it is just hard to insert story into MMO's because even in GW %98 of all players in mission maps skip the custscenes. oh well i suppose i will just have to keep jumping back and forth. heres hoping for some groundbreaking MMO.
P.S. i have never really understood the WOW clone statement because WOW isn't the first ever MMO or RPG for that matter there were Numerous games that did the same thing before it yet all we refer to is WOW. essentially all these games are dungeon and dragons clones no? not the MMO dungeons and dragons the original dungeons and dragons
Sounds like maybe you just have a case of MMO burnout OP. We ALL get it at some point or another. You do something so often for so long and it gets boring no matter what it is. Hey, I bet you even a rock star get's bored of doing concerts night in and night out because it get's boring for them, even though us on the other side think it would be magnificent. See my point?
Maybe you should just take a break for a while. When you come back, pick up a new mmo you haven't tried so you can experience the new content. And actually DO the content. Read the quest text, don't just grab it and run and kill things or escort things and then turn in.
When I get MMO burnout I usually will take between 1-3 months off and when I go back I feel excited to play the game again for a good long while.
Try it out...it couldn't hurt (and saves your wallet the sub fees for a few months )
The OP wrote a really good post and makes a few great points.
It's funny, while reading this, It made me think about how similar the development of the MMO as a genre is to the development of technology in the United States from the 1960's until today.
In the Late 50's alot of magazines and books were released detailing the world in the year 2000. The concepts and Ideas generated in that time period generally fall under what we refer to as "retro futurism".
And what retro futurism was, was the Idealism of the 50's and the then, rate of technological development applied to the timespan between the years of 1950 and 2000. Unfortunately the fallacy that alluded the ideals expressed in alot of retro futuristic literature, was the american rule of if it ain't broke don't fix it.
People predicted that we'd be living in spacestations eating nutrition cubes and getting around by jetpack. Unfortunately as a country we became far too comfortable doing what worked to care enough to change anything.
My point is when Everquest came out I remember thinking "how amazingly cool will MMO's be in 10 years" and the truth is, IMO the genre has gone downhill. Instead of taking to time to innovate, the developers just kept dishing out the same old crap in a new wrapper. What we need is a game like The Old Republic, to come out and become exteremly successful, so that all other developers will look and say "hey Innovation does bring the masses, lets see what we can do"
Blizzard uses WOW to harvest hours played into bottles so that the dev team can remain immortal
I did get tired so I bought an Xbox360 about 500 bucks in games, a live account and it was fun. Hell it's still fun even though I've come back to my two favorite MMOs. All it took was a couple months off and for me to try two 21 day trials of my favorite sandbox games Eve online and Saga of Ryzom.
Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.
I personally don't know much about the Wii but as a player that does enjoy a nice session of console gaming now.
I will say that console games have come a long way. Games like Mass Effect and Fable II have alot to offer a player like me.
Also the Xbox live arcade is fantastic so many retro Atari games that have been "evolved".
From Gears of War to Castlevania: SotN to Mass Effect to Pacman CE im having a freaking blast.
I'm sure anyone could say similar things about the ps3 and wii, these gaming machines are really nice to have to break up that burnout we get in MMO's.
So true, I am loving my 360 right now and with so many great games coming up like Borderlands, Dragon Age Origins,Left4Dead 2 Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 just to name a few. Then we have games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 to look forward to. Though I am really hoping that Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic and Blizzard's next mmo will be awesome.
I did get tired so I bought an Xbox360 about 500 bucks in games, a live account and it was fun. Hell it's still fun even though I've come back to my two favorite MMOs. All it took was a couple months off and for me to try two 21 day trials of my favorite sandbox games Eve online and Saga of Ryzom.
Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.
I personally don't know much about the Wii but as a player that does enjoy a nice session of console gaming now.
I will say that console games have come a long way. Games like Mass Effect and Fable II have alot to offer a player like me.
Also the Xbox live arcade is fantastic so many retro Atari games that have been "evolved".
From Gears of War to Castlevania: SotN to Mass Effect to Pacman CE im having a freaking blast.
I'm sure anyone could say similar things about the ps3 and wii, these gaming machines are really nice to have to break up that burnout we get in MMO's.
So true, I am loving my 360 right now and with so many great games coming up like Borderlands, Dragon Age Origins,Left4Dead 2 Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 just to name a few. Then we have games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 to look forward to. Though I am really hoping that Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic and Blizzard's next mmo will be awesome.
On a side note...
Just got the red rings of death today AGAIN on my Xbox360. This # 4 and I've only had this Elite for six months! GG Microsoft FTL!!!
I know I've grown tired of all the corporate b.s. associated with many MMOs. Advertise stuff, print it on the box even, take money and then fail to deliver--b.s.. Broken features, promises to fix them, and never actually do it--b.s.. Put in a ticket for a game-breaking bug, and never (at anytime) get any response--b.s.. Craft stuff and then have the MMO producer turn all your crafted gear into crap by changing the game's model from crafting to loot drops--b.s.. Start playing a subscription based MMO and have it turn into an RMT plus subscription game--b.s.. Spend months gaining skills, powers or professions only to have them all removed from the game--b.s.. Have any or all of the above b.s. happen, and then be told that I as a player actually asked for this--b.s..
I still think MMOs could be fun without all the b.s., but damn there's just too much of it.
Some games don't pile this crap on their customers, but it seems they're the rare gems in a field of manure.
At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward, put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon. Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment, MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment, one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against. These aren't games, they have no end, no story, no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment. It is a Machine, built for one reason, to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.
All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was. Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction, good luck.
This is a very good post.
But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.
Without the other players you have a really poor game.
Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.
MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.
At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward, put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon. Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment, MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment, one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against. These aren't games, they have no end, no story, no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment. It is a Machine, built for one reason, to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.
All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was. Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction, good luck.
This is a very good post.
But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.
Without the other players you have a really poor game.
Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.
MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.
Yeah but if you want to get too deep, all hobbies are at their core time versus reward.
On a side note... Just got the red rings of death today AGAIN on my Xbox360. This # 4 and I've only had this Elite for six months! GG Microsoft FTL!!!
<off topic>
that blows I havent seen many people complaining about the red ring since the new arcade and elite consoles releases its down to under .5% possiblilty of getting that.
Microsoft will probably just replace it for free.
How often do you play? I personally only get maybe 2-3 hours at the most of straight through gameplay.
Xbox360 is like any other PC if you play for 10+ hours straight sooner or later your going to burn out something.
I p[lay in moderation and while I understand Red ring could be frustrating Ps3 just isnt worth the purchase since Xbox exclusives destroy that system (only reason to play a Ps3 is MGS4,Killzone2 and Infamous, three games dont warrent a purchase lol), so i'll take my chances with the Red ring.
At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward, put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon. Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment, MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment, one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against. These aren't games, they have no end, no story, no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment. It is a Machine, built for one reason, to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.
All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was. Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction, good luck.
This is a very good post.
But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.
Without the other players you have a really poor game.
Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.
MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.
Yeah but if you want to get too deep, all hobbies are at their core time versus reward.
Well I don't want to get to hung up on semantics but there is a difference between a "hobby" and a competitive game.
Hobby
n., pl. -bies.
An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure.
It really is subjective in this case. People play MMO for different reasons
But again, at their core, games are a social recreation activity. Chess "clubs", Tennis "clubs" Softball teams...can't do any without other players and other players you enjoy being around.
The problem with mmos is that it has become more of a mission for devs on how to make money rather than how to make an epic mmo. I'm not tired of mmos but I'm really disappointed that we have not been receiving anything different since WOW thus far. I'm sure someday we'll get something really great but by that time alot people probably will have grown tired of paying monthly fees for rehashed ideas.
Yeah, and this is why I plan to take a really long hiatus from Mmorpgs; I prefer not to drag myself through the trenches with the awful MMOs today just to end up totally feeling fed up with the genre when something good does come out.
At least after a long break (even though I've already been away for over half a year) my interest can regenerate when the next generation of MMOs finally do come out.
I'll give Swtor beta a try and keep a close ear on any other releases and that is it....=/
Well... many games including MMOs used Unrelal engine 2 and 2.5 to this point. But now, when Unreal 3 engine is out it open for more possibilities for developers. Thanks to WoW MMo market growth even larger, more investors interested in it, especially in Asia. So new wave of games with improved overall graphics and gameplay about to came out.
For me, it looks like there no decent game for MMO veterans, because they have seen a lot and when then try new game the overall experience just in beginner levels tell much about the game. There so much similarity between games that many action become a drill especially questing. Too many games are quest-grind based. Quests are not quests anymore, you don't need to investigate anything now, quest log say all about it, pint exact location or even auto-walks you there in some games. Quests became utility for leveling. Why do I have to kill whole bandit camp in order to that that girl? Can't I talk with over? Buy her out, scare them,do them a favor, became leader of them? Why my actions doesn't affect character? I could gain different reputations when I complete a quest which will affect my further experience.
I think many MMOs out there suffer from same simmilar sickness - "Replayability". It either fun to get to maximum( or certain) level and then face the doom of boredom cause there no content left. Or struggle with leveling to the maximum( or certain) level and then have fun. In order to get some action I must first spend many weeks and maybe month to get to that magic level and maybe exactly or even more time to get decent gear for it. Look at FPS,RTS and true RPG. They don't suffer from this, why MMO does?
However, by looking at Aion (thank to beta events) I could say that MMO doesn't stay in same place. I'm sure we will get great titles quite soon. People here have already said many of them I will just add some more: Tera,Mabinogi Heroes,Continent of the ninth
"Don't argue with dick-heads, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
At the core of MMO's is the cycle of time vs reward, put in enough time and your rewarded and the ever fancier carrot dangling on the horizon. Most people work in their lives for happiness and or a sense of accomplishment, MMO companies create a false environment for players to feel false accomplishment, one major reason that accomplishment has such a strong effect vs say beating a single player game is the simple fact is that there are other People to measure your false accomplishments against. These aren't games, they have no end, no story, no meaningful character impact as time is frozen and all you do is undone in a moment. It is a Machine, built for one reason, to make you feel like you got something for the time you put in so you put more time into it.
All that's happened with your disenchantment with the machine is that you no longer value the false objects or milestones that you've accomplished and or the carrot they are dangling is no longer as shiney as it was. Congratulations your on your first step to curing an addiction, good luck.
This is a very good post.
But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.
Without the other players you have a really poor game.
Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.
MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.
Torak, I think you're right, but only half so. The other aspect of MMOs is that players, in the backs of their minds, are expecting a world to play in.
Comments
Since this thread is veering off slightly into the realms of "what I'm doing to see me through the MMO drought", I thought I'd contribute to the minor derail with some of the ways that I'm spending my "gametime" now that I'm playing barely playing MMOs.
Rediscovering older SRPGs like KOTOR, KOTOR2, Morrowind, Oblivion, etc.
Wii Fit + Motion Plus. I know, it's not really proper gaming but dagnabbit, it's fun.
Super Stardust on the PSP. I don't know why it's so addictive; it's like catnip to me at the moment.
Trawling youtube for funny videos; current fave.
I also rearranged my socks in order of which have the least holes.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Somewhat off-topic, but the Wii is a fantastic system with a wonderfully innovative control system. They're starting to move away from kiddy-centric games and toward some really fantastic games. I highly recommend it.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
This is a very good post.
This is a very good post.
Yeah, that post made me lol too, very well put; I pretty much realized this back in my WoW playing days (of course it would be no other game to point out this fact more than WoW) and I quit for good.
In any other game something that becomes repetitive would spell like I said certain doom for the game critically and financially, but MMOs seem to get away with it time and time again.
I have a friend that lately tried to get me into Aion, so I tried the Chinese version with him, and "my god" is that game an empty meaningless grindfest, the PvP is good but by the time you get their you feel like you should be collecting social security. Not even my friend that's a big fan of Asian MMOs could deal with leveling anymore and quit half way through. Now I hope when it comes out here in the states the developers will get smart and cut it down a lot for western audience, because I don't see that game doing well here if it stays the way it is.
(I know I said I didn't want to get into it but fuck it, felt like it needed to be said).
Oh and here's another gripe I've developed playing MMOs, the level of freedom with what to do in them. One of the advantages of playing a video game is you can do things in them that wouldn't be acceptable in society. Yeah like jacking cars, blowing up towns (thinking of Megaton in Fallout 3), looting and plundering, but when you have an MMO all of a sudden ganking players because a big thing. In a video game you can escape the rules that bind society over what's fair and what isn't, but in an MMO since you're dealing with other players, there is a demand for fairness. Killing and looting players is frowned upon, sniping players off roof tops is considered unfair (anyone remember roof top ganking in WoW). You can't pickpocket them, you can't turn on your own faction or cheat ppl.
Now my understanding is that MMOs are nothing more than video games, and sometimes the games need to be a bit unfair if players are willing to have any fun.
Now if the PvE had any actual brain behind it instead of being one endless grind over nothing; I could be satisfied with it. But there's no brains behind PvE so the only challenge I see in these games is the PvP.
And unfortunately, since these games are such a major time sink that ends up getting players way too attached to their avatars. There has to be a level of fairness in it to keep it civil. Something that goes against everything that stands for playing a video game in general.....being civil...0o
What this gentleman said.
One of the more intelligent posts I've ever seen on this board.
Hard to believe that people (myself included) complain how much these games suck, but then they're right there to try the next bright shiny release in the foolish hope that it'll be different (or god forbid, fun).
Ugh, yeah I'm tired of this genre. All it took was a replay of The Witcher and Morrowind to remind me how woefully inadequate mmorpg's are when compared to actual games.
...
Somewhat off-topic, but the Wii is a fantastic system with a wonderfully innovative control system. They're starting to move away from kiddy-centric games and toward some really fantastic games. I highly recommend it.
Yep, and when Deadspace Extraction releases in September, that will be the last nail in the PC gaming coffin for me.
Ever since I purchased the Nyko Perfect Shot, shooters on the Wii have gone to a whole new level. It looks like a gun, feels like a gun, spring trigger. Really nice. And only $15. That's one month of a boring MMO. Playing Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles using the gun instead of the Wii remote or zapper is a 180 degree turnaround in fun. Also, coming up we've got:
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles
Resident Evil Archives: Resident Evil
Metroid: Other M
Dead Space Extraction
Cursed Mountain
Can't wait to try them. Thank God for Gamefly.
Besides, I feel less guilty about spending time playing games when I can fold in a little bit of exersize in with it.
On topic, I've grown up playing some games, ( mostly like everyone of my generation ), from the very beginning @ the commodore amiga 64 with Kickoff, past the gameboy generation with pokemon, fifa, Playstation times, with Final Fantasy and Tomb Raider, until I fell into MMORPGs and FPS's.
Played almost every MMORPG out there, and I'm tired. I'm always downloading mmorpgs, even if I've tried them a couple of weeks before and didn't like it, just to see if I can hang to hit for some time.
I just can't seem to find any interest for a long time in these mmos today.
Perhaps we need something different, perhaps I need to try something different relatively to MMOs.
I sold my Playstation 1 and a short while after, my PS2. I won't disgrace myself buying another console. I don't have interest on them for a long time either.
I suppose I'm stuck with the games I have, because I don't have anything suitable for my taste.
- GOD SAVE THE QUEEN -
The problem with mmos is that it has become more of a mission for devs on how to make money rather than how to make an epic mmo. I'm not tired of mmos but I'm really disappointed that we have not been receiving anything different since WOW thus far. I'm sure someday we'll get something really great but by that time alot people probably will have grown tired of paying monthly fees for rehashed ideas.
Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.
I personally don't know much about the Wii but as a player that does enjoy a nice session of console gaming now.
I will say that console games have come a long way. Games like Mass Effect and Fable II have alot to offer a player like me.
Also the Xbox live arcade is fantastic so many retro Atari games that have been "evolved".
From Gears of War to Castlevania: SotN to Mass Effect to Pacman CE im having a freaking blast.
I'm sure anyone could say similar things about the ps3 and wii, these gaming machines are really nice to have to break up that burnout we get in MMO's.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I've noticed that the MMO scene just isnt holding my attention anymore i jump between ROM GW and Lineage 2 because i get bored of on or the other and have to go play the other ones. actually at this point I've been playing more single player story FPS games they seem to feel a little more involved in that i have an actual story that progresses. too much in MMO are the quest just kill theis go get this etc... but i guess it is just hard to insert story into MMO's because even in GW %98 of all players in mission maps skip the custscenes. oh well i suppose i will just have to keep jumping back and forth. heres hoping for some groundbreaking MMO.
P.S. i have never really understood the WOW clone statement because WOW isn't the first ever MMO or RPG for that matter there were Numerous games that did the same thing before it yet all we refer to is WOW. essentially all these games are dungeon and dragons clones no? not the MMO dungeons and dragons the original dungeons and dragons
Sounds like maybe you just have a case of MMO burnout OP. We ALL get it at some point or another. You do something so often for so long and it gets boring no matter what it is. Hey, I bet you even a rock star get's bored of doing concerts night in and night out because it get's boring for them, even though us on the other side think it would be magnificent. See my point?
Maybe you should just take a break for a while. When you come back, pick up a new mmo you haven't tried so you can experience the new content. And actually DO the content. Read the quest text, don't just grab it and run and kill things or escort things and then turn in.
When I get MMO burnout I usually will take between 1-3 months off and when I go back I feel excited to play the game again for a good long while.
Try it out...it couldn't hurt (and saves your wallet the sub fees for a few months
)
The OP wrote a really good post and makes a few great points.
It's funny, while reading this, It made me think about how similar the development of the MMO as a genre is to the development of technology in the United States from the 1960's until today.
In the Late 50's alot of magazines and books were released detailing the world in the year 2000. The concepts and Ideas generated in that time period generally fall under what we refer to as "retro futurism".
And what retro futurism was, was the Idealism of the 50's and the then, rate of technological development applied to the timespan between the years of 1950 and 2000. Unfortunately the fallacy that alluded the ideals expressed in alot of retro futuristic literature, was the american rule of if it ain't broke don't fix it.
People predicted that we'd be living in spacestations eating nutrition cubes and getting around by jetpack. Unfortunately as a country we became far too comfortable doing what worked to care enough to change anything.
My point is when Everquest came out I remember thinking "how amazingly cool will MMO's be in 10 years" and the truth is, IMO the genre has gone downhill. Instead of taking to time to innovate, the developers just kept dishing out the same old crap in a new wrapper. What we need is a game like The Old Republic, to come out and become exteremly successful, so that all other developers will look and say "hey Innovation does bring the masses, lets see what we can do"
Blizzard uses WOW to harvest hours played into bottles so that the dev team can remain immortal
Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.
I personally don't know much about the Wii but as a player that does enjoy a nice session of console gaming now.
I will say that console games have come a long way. Games like Mass Effect and Fable II have alot to offer a player like me.
Also the Xbox live arcade is fantastic so many retro Atari games that have been "evolved".
From Gears of War to Castlevania: SotN to Mass Effect to Pacman CE im having a freaking blast.
I'm sure anyone could say similar things about the ps3 and wii, these gaming machines are really nice to have to break up that burnout we get in MMO's.
So true, I am loving my 360 right now and with so many great games coming up like Borderlands, Dragon Age Origins,Left4Dead 2 Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 just to name a few. Then we have games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 to look forward to. Though I am really hoping that Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic and Blizzard's next mmo will be awesome.
Ive thought about the Wii myself. Was at my daughters the other day and played some Mario on the "virtual console" with my grandkids. I enjoyed it a lot. Other than the Aion beta weekends i havnt been playing mmo's at all so it might be just the thing.
I personally don't know much about the Wii but as a player that does enjoy a nice session of console gaming now.
I will say that console games have come a long way. Games like Mass Effect and Fable II have alot to offer a player like me.
Also the Xbox live arcade is fantastic so many retro Atari games that have been "evolved".
From Gears of War to Castlevania: SotN to Mass Effect to Pacman CE im having a freaking blast.
I'm sure anyone could say similar things about the ps3 and wii, these gaming machines are really nice to have to break up that burnout we get in MMO's.
So true, I am loving my 360 right now and with so many great games coming up like Borderlands, Dragon Age Origins,Left4Dead 2 Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock 2 just to name a few. Then we have games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 to look forward to. Though I am really hoping that Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic and Blizzard's next mmo will be awesome.
On a side note...
Just got the red rings of death today AGAIN on my Xbox360. This # 4 and I've only had this Elite for six months! GG Microsoft FTL!!!
I know I've grown tired of all the corporate b.s. associated with many MMOs. Advertise stuff, print it on the box even, take money and then fail to deliver--b.s.. Broken features, promises to fix them, and never actually do it--b.s.. Put in a ticket for a game-breaking bug, and never (at anytime) get any response--b.s.. Craft stuff and then have the MMO producer turn all your crafted gear into crap by changing the game's model from crafting to loot drops--b.s.. Start playing a subscription based MMO and have it turn into an RMT plus subscription game--b.s.. Spend months gaining skills, powers or professions only to have them all removed from the game--b.s.. Have any or all of the above b.s. happen, and then be told that I as a player actually asked for this--b.s..
I still think MMOs could be fun without all the b.s., but damn there's just too much of it.
Some games don't pile this crap on their customers, but it seems they're the rare gems in a field of manure.
This is a very good post.
But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.
Without the other players you have a really poor game.
Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.
MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.
This is a very good post.
But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.
Without the other players you have a really poor game.
Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.
MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.
Yeah but if you want to get too deep, all hobbies are at their core time versus reward.
My Thoughts on Content Locust
<off topic>
that blows I havent seen many people complaining about the red ring since the new arcade and elite consoles releases its down to under .5% possiblilty of getting that.
Microsoft will probably just replace it for free.
How often do you play? I personally only get maybe 2-3 hours at the most of straight through gameplay.
Xbox360 is like any other PC if you play for 10+ hours straight sooner or later your going to burn out something.
I p[lay in moderation and while I understand Red ring could be frustrating Ps3 just isnt worth the purchase since Xbox exclusives destroy that system (only reason to play a Ps3 is MGS4,Killzone2 and Infamous, three games dont warrent a purchase lol), so i'll take my chances with the Red ring.
Hope it get fixed for you.
<off topic>
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
This is a very good post.
But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.
Without the other players you have a really poor game.
Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.
MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.
Yeah but if you want to get too deep, all hobbies are at their core time versus reward.
Well I don't want to get to hung up on semantics but there is a difference between a "hobby" and a competitive game.
Hobby
n., pl. -bies.
An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure.
It really is subjective in this case. People play MMO for different reasons
But again, at their core, games are a social recreation activity. Chess "clubs", Tennis "clubs" Softball teams...can't do any without other players and other players you enjoy being around.
MMO's are getting dry for me too =/ they used to be so awesome, I don't know whats happened. =(
Yeah, and this is why I plan to take a really long hiatus from Mmorpgs; I prefer not to drag myself through the trenches with the awful MMOs today just to end up totally feeling fed up with the genre when something good does come out.
At least after a long break (even though I've already been away for over half a year) my interest can regenerate when the next generation of MMOs finally do come out.
I'll give Swtor beta a try and keep a close ear on any other releases and that is it....=/
Well... many games including MMOs used Unrelal engine 2 and 2.5 to this point. But now, when Unreal 3 engine is out it open for more possibilities for developers. Thanks to WoW MMo market growth even larger, more investors interested in it, especially in Asia. So new wave of games with improved overall graphics and gameplay about to came out.
For me, it looks like there no decent game for MMO veterans, because they have seen a lot and when then try new game the overall experience just in beginner levels tell much about the game. There so much similarity between games that many action become a drill especially questing. Too many games are quest-grind based. Quests are not quests anymore, you don't need to investigate anything now, quest log say all about it, pint exact location or even auto-walks you there in some games. Quests became utility for leveling. Why do I have to kill whole bandit camp in order to that that girl? Can't I talk with over? Buy her out, scare them,do them a favor, became leader of them? Why my actions doesn't affect character? I could gain different reputations when I complete a quest which will affect my further experience.
I think many MMOs out there suffer from same simmilar sickness - "Replayability". It either fun to get to maximum( or certain) level and then face the doom of boredom cause there no content left. Or struggle with leveling to the maximum( or certain) level and then have fun. In order to get some action I must first spend many weeks and maybe month to get to that magic level and maybe exactly or even more time to get decent gear for it. Look at FPS,RTS and true RPG. They don't suffer from this, why MMO does?
However, by looking at Aion (thank to beta events) I could say that MMO doesn't stay in same place. I'm sure we will get great titles quite soon. People here have already said many of them I will just add some more: Tera,Mabinogi Heroes,Continent of the ninth
"Don't argue with dick-heads, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
This is a very good post.
But he is wrong. MMORPG's, at their "core" are about communities.
Without the other players you have a really poor game.
Single player RPG (and other assorted games) offer better content, FPS offer better combat.
MMO's offer you the chance to play a game in a persistant world environment with other players and your friends. 90% of you replying to this post apparently don't realize this.
Torak, I think you're right, but only half so. The other aspect of MMOs is that players, in the backs of their minds, are expecting a world to play in.
But we don't get that. We get a backdrop.
Once upon a time....