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Putting out XFire with Gasoline
openedge1
Member Posts: 2,582
I have a blog post up on why Xfire is just not worth a darn when it comes to tracking how well Age of Conan is doing in scrips or time played.
http://simple-n-complex.blogspot.com/2009/08/putting-out-fire-with-gasoline-xfire.html
And check another users issues with Xfire and it's buggy background processing..
http://theblamefulgecko.wordpress.com/2009/08/11/misfire/
AoC and Xfire = BURN!!
(PS: Using Xfire, playing AoC and crashing...read this..)
Comments
No matter how you look at it Xfire will always be a pretty accurate way of measuring the popularity of the game, this has been proven over and over. We saw when the trials started to come a increase on xfire, the veteren comeback also the same. Once the veteran period was over xfire went back to normal numbers again. I do think AoC is a good game, but it is pointless to try and make xfire look useless because it isn't. If the amount of subscriptions is what you want to measure xfire is worthless, however if you want to look at the popularity of the game Xfire does give a pretty accurate picture of just that.
You can bring up all kinds of threads and posts about xfire have potential issues with games, we all know it does. And it isn't just aoc that have had this issue, many other games too. I had no issues to get xfire to work with aoc. it was just install the program and voila.
Try to make xfire a less trustworthy tool then many claim it to be, no matter what you do you will in the end realize it does actually measure the trend or the popularity of a game quite accurate.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
On my radar: TSW, MO
MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
I really wanted to believe this, but so far, the game is working much better since removal. I was having an issue with NPC's not loading in quick enough when I would enter the trader or other zones. Now, they load properly. As well, whenever I would quit AoC, it would go to a black screen and I had to CTRL ALT DEL to get out (in DX10)...this issue is now gone.
Say what you will, but I also see a noticeable difference without it loaded, and I will be removing it from all my systems.
Thus, the whole "Xfire can show a trend" is crap, and instead shows a trend in users "uninstalling" Xfire if anything.
I agree. Some people only quote Xfire when it suits their own agenda. Other times they say Xfire is useless. This is just silly.
In my experience Xfire is actually quite accurate tool in measuring gaming trends.
Right now Age of Conan is #44 in Xfire. Age of Conan was in 30's at the time of veteran re-evaluation. It's no coincidence that after re-evaluation is over, AoC is slowly going back to 50's. And to think that Age of Conan was once at #4. Crazy.
And what's funny is games like EQ2, Lineage 2, CoH, SWG are even lower on that Xfire list, yet still continue to run.
Wonder what kind of trend that indicates? Wonder how many really care about Xfire in the first place?
All I care about is that AoC is running a hundred times better without it. Everyone should uninstall the program actually.
Is XFire necessary or required to play AoC? Or any game for that matter? Whenever I see the option to include XFire during a new game installation, I always say no. Not because I have anything against the tracking per se, but it's just one more thing to slow down my connection.
Nope...just the wannabe pundits and haters use it to show growth or losses in game scrips using an unreliable tool is all.
And I agree with speed as my connection to the AoC servers have really taken off. So many issues with NPC's loading is now gone since uninstall.
Cheers
In over a decade of online gaming, I have never once installed nor ran XFire.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
I did as I liked the idea to record video, and keep track of my game times...but now, I see no need. Game is running considerably better and that is whats important.
Guys, Xfire is only useful for tracking gaming trends of Xfire users.
In all my years of MMO gaming (thats alot of MMO's) Ive never ran across an Xfire user.
What I'd like an Xfire user to do is tell me how many people are playing AoC with Xfire, a solid number 50k, 10k, etc, verses the number of subs the game has. Then we can tell just how accurate using Xfire is to rate a game.
My guess (and yes its just a guess), is there are about 2k-5k Xfire users per 100k subscribers. And Im definintly leaning towards the 2k per 100k. And to be counted as a player to that MMO they need to log more than 10 hours in a week.
If you guys can bring in some hard data like that, then I think Xfire becomes a "more legitimate" tool.
Ohh and btw, I do agree AoC is getting more subs and is growing. Its one I plan on trying within the next six months.
(As a follower of the game 2 years before it went live, I seen the writting on the wall, and decided to see if they could refloat that boat. Which it looks like they done.)
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
You don't play, but agree AoC is growing and getting more subs? Just curious...based on what? Don't cite Xfire numbers either shrinking or growing because it's been proven to be easy to manipulate.
I don't think it's a dead as trolls say, but my experience is it's not exactly hopping, either. Did a Black Castle run last night and it took us an hour to get a 2nd healer. If there are all these new and/or returning players, where are they? Granted, BC sucks, but even Sanctum I see groups LF specific classes spamming for 30 minutes looking to fill it.
You don't play, but agree AoC is growing and getting more subs? Just curious...based on what? Don't cite Xfire numbers either shrinking or growing because it's been proven to be easy to manipulate.
I don't think it's a dead as trolls say, but my experience is it's not exactly hopping, either. Did a Black Castle run last night and it took us an hour to get a 2nd healer. If there are all these new and/or returning players, where are they? Granted, BC sucks, but even Sanctum I see groups LF specific classes spamming for 30 minutes looking to fill it.
Take a look at the AoC.YG census btw...Healers are the smallest class played, and most difficult to recruit.
Has nothing to do with pops.
Openedge1 accuses many people of having agendas, yet with this thread and many other posts he clearly poses himself as the one with a clear agenda. How does that make you better than the hater, mr. openedge1?
You don't play, but agree AoC is growing and getting more subs? Just curious...based on what? Don't cite Xfire numbers either shrinking or growing because it's been proven to be easy to manipulate.
I don't think it's a dead as trolls say, but my experience is it's not exactly hopping, either. Did a Black Castle run last night and it took us an hour to get a 2nd healer. If there are all these new and/or returning players, where are they? Granted, BC sucks, but even Sanctum I see groups LF specific classes spamming for 30 minutes looking to fill it.
Two people at my work who play MMO's have given it a try, and are enjoying it. And another 2 people in my WAR guild have picked it up as their 2nd sub game. Me I went back to EVE as my 2nd sub game.
The ex-GF called and asked me if I had tried AoC, (and what I thought about it), as some friends at her work were trying to get her to give it a try.
I cant point to any charts or data on the web, I can only point my finger at RL examples. People who've heard it sucked at lanunch, but has gotten better since. And who are playing it an enjoying it.
Edit* And about Xfire, if you reread my post, I dont think Xfire is accurate in any way of representing an MMO's subscription growth (or shrikage), as no one has posted hard data.
Its my opinon that Xfire players represent about only 2% of a MMO's player base. And you cant base anything concreate off of a percent so small.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Well it doesn't take much to look at post history to see some posters have an obvious agenda. Post history speaks for itself in most cases.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
People are always using xfire to prove or disprove how popular MMO's are so i guess im the only MMO subscriber that doesnt use it. Has there ever been a poll taken here to see just how many do use it? Polls are not something i believe much either but might give me an idea.
Lets see...constructive, informative, has major information that may help users who may have issues with the game?
So, please if YOU have something constructive to add that has not been ranted over and over and OVER, then by all means, share it. I think a well written post with information that is helpful and allows others to learn the current state of the game to the best of that posters ability is more helpful than...FAILCOM.
I am sure YOU would disagree.
Openedge1 would you mind testing the Raptr client with AoC?
It now uses all the IM programs, well the major ones. Yahoo, AIM, MSN, and Xfire. I haven't been able to tell if it logs hours in xfire though. Could you try it and see how it runs with AoC and your other games?
I think it uses Adobe Air as the platform. If that is the right word.
.. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-
--------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Yea, I posted about that earlier on Twitter. I looked at that client and it looks lightweight, and should not cause issues. The other person who posted their issues on their blog is testing it today also.
I will report back on that, as it looks like a good way to keep up with friends and track time played.
Cheers
TBH when the free trials and win backs happened I cooled down for a bit because they seemed to be a sucess and the numbers shot way up and all but right afterwards they shot way down fast.
So Xfire can explain what happened in those trials.
It can't explain how many players are playing because the game is so small today. However it is so small and so much is known about the server populations a simple equation can give you that answer.
Total pop = server capacity IE 10,000 ( server A % of capacity + server B % of+ server C % of) just solve with algebra distributive property.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
Yeah. I have been using Xfire for I guess 4 years maybe now. Never has it crashed any one of my games. Ever. At all. It means get a better rig.
I am thinking SOE and NCSoft would beg to differ with that equation with Lineage 2 and EQ2. And they rank WAY lower than AoC on those charts.
SOE tried to get pulled into the Xfire debate at one time, but Gnobrin put a stop to it with some statements of "Oh yea, we have way more than that" (Go check their forums for that discussion.)
There is no doubt it can show "Xfire" trends, but that is it. It proves nothing in subscriber rates, dropoffs, populations.., and if anything, people like myself who find it causing issues with their game of choice, Age of Conan, have shut it off, and their time is NOT being counted...and believe me..I put a lot of hours in.
All I can say, is the performance has been great since I uninstalled, and instead I plan to try another tool, Raptr to see how that performs (and from the lightweight design and backend code I have seen, it will definitely blow the performance doors off of Xfire).
Cheers
This thread fun. Personally I run Xfire and AoC without any problems (drop in framerate, loadtimes, crashes etc.)
As long as I do not use the voicechat or live broadcast in Xfire the extra bandwith utilization is less than .1% == neglible. This is not an assumption or a feeling but simply based on an average over 6000 secs of wireshark/ethereal logging. (Should be acceptable aftter Funcom changed their EULA/T&C)
I am NOT going to stroll down the "early AoC techsupport" avenue and blame it on the OP's hard/software because chances are we have extremely different setups - This is just to say that in MY case there are NO problems with Xfire running while I play AoC.
The thread is funny (imo) because the OP is simply doing to Xfire, exactly what would have sent him on a flaming crusade against anyone who would have done the same towards AoC.
Just imagine someone saying: " I have absolutely NO problems with Xfire. It runs flawlessly after uninstalling AoC: People having problems with Xfire should uninstall AoC immediately as it is a bugged, crashprone and intrusive piece of software."
I bet someone (perhaps the OP?) would be calling that person a hater and/or troll.
I am not doubting that the OP have had the experience that he describes with Xfire and AoC.
Neither am I doubting that the OP's feelings towards Xfire is completely uninfluenced by all tthe xfire-discussions on this board.
However, I am also completely certain that there is no GENERAL incompatibilities between AoC and Xfire, which does not exclude SOME people from experiencing problems with the two programs.
In the end: I read the OP's message as: "There is a general problem with Xfire and AoC". This is wrong and I guess the OP dislikes misinformation. (He said so often enough.) The conclusion that the OP laid out is wrong. It is based on a limited experience and no solid facts.
(And just for the record: I do play AoC. I have only ever had this account on mmorpg.com and I have the same username on the EU AoC forums. And no, my native language is obviously not english
)
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
I used to dismiss xfire as unreliable. I still think it is to a certain degree, but it would be foolish to dismiss how accurately it detailed conan, warhammer and wow last year.
You could clearly see the steep decline in both conan and warhammer during their first few months. It mirrored what a lot of departing players were saying of forums. On the flip side it shows the upward trend in wow. [I wonder what xfire says about eve.]
Fans of both games made many rational excuses as to why xfire is not reliable. The most common was "I don't use it and don't know anyone that uses it" as well as "Many people uninstall it, because it creates lag or something else while playing mmos".
They are both great opinions and make valid arguments. However that has no bearing on the obvious decline both games went through in their first six+ months. People uninstalling or not using xfire did not force both companies to merge servers in response to subscriber decline. Both companies bragged about 7-800k subscribers and then a few months later it was less than half of that. It didn't force either company to fire the game directors (both were original founders of the companies).
As much as I didn't want to believe that xfire was accurately showing a trend, it is hard to dismiss it as anything other than accurate. I'm sure a statistics professor or someone from the gallop polling agency could write a paper detailing how it theoretically shouldn't be accurate, but it was.
For reasons I still have trouble accepting, xfire has shown to be pretty accurate in giving an overall view of the health of pvp games in its first year. It may not show exact numbers, give details of how to calculate estamatied total subscribers and it may not be reliable beyond the first year, but it was spot on about both games. I can't explain it, but it was.
This isn't me saying conan sucks or is going to die in any way. It is just an honest look at what happened and not buying explainations as to why something didn't happen, when it did happen.
And you would be wrong, but that is ok. Read it as you will.
What I stated (and it is in the OP)....
1. Anyone who wishes to use Xfire to map out subscribers...would be wrong.
Why?
2. Due to the fact that users can and DO exhibit issues with Xfire running with AoC. My issues were not as severe as the other poster whose blog showed he would crash within an hour. After removing it, he has had no issues.
3. And to finally state if you are crashing in AoC or having weird issues, then it may be because of Xfire if you have it installed.
There is a problem with Xfire and AoC that I see. It may not be you, but for myself, and others it causes problems and in the end is a fallible tool. This was my main point.
BTW, solid facts is a recreatable situation for myself, and the FACT remains that for myself and others, we have issues with Xfire and AoC, and I would not be one to state it is everyone...maybe you see that due to your language barrier...but it was never my intent.
(And I saw the little jokes at the end about your account. But, I can assume you have not been on the MMORPG forums in a while and seen the multitude of fake accounts that have been going this past week. For that, I forgive you...but, I can certainly tell you are not one of them)
I am sorry if I misunderstood your post, yet once again you state that Xfire is the fallible program of the two.
I think it is that statement (from your blog) and your second last paragraph in your orignal post: "AoC and Xfire = BURN!!" that hit my language barrier.
Oh - my last paragraph was not supposed to be a joke. And I have been reading the mmorpg forums... I just try not to post in those threads unless something sets me on fire. In my experience shouting for silence rarely leads the desired result.
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)