Solid review. Answered a lot of my questions. MTs are relevant. They bum me, but I don't see many MMOs releasing w/o them in the future.
What are you talking about? Other than the vague press releases, no one knows anything about the MT's. No one has seen the Cryptic shop.
The OP was just guessing and since he seems to have a negative bias, his guess is negative as well.
I beg to differ. The first day the game was in open beta I read multiple posts on the forums from people who were pretty upset because costume parts that they used in alpha and closed beta weren't available in open beta.
I wonder where those costume pieces are going to be? The cash shop? No... they would never do that. (Please note that this forum has no Times New Sarcasm font so you'll have to use your imagination.)
I really wish that gamers in general would start wising up to all of the sheisty business practices that have been getting worse and worse.
If you support these questionable business practices those same shady practices will be picked up and adopted by other companies.
It's even happening with console gaming as well. You "superior" PC purists can look down your runny noses at all of the "unwashed masses of console cavemen", but one day PC gaming will be just as bad if not worse. Developers are releasing games on the 360 and holding back content or locking content on the disks to be sold piece meal to who ever is willing to part with even more cash than they all ready paid for the "full" game.
The Modern Warfare 2 developers even entertained the notion of charging a subscription fee for players who wanted to level up faster by getting more exp than the people that aren't mindless pleeebs and are unwilling to pony up a monthly fee for some smarmy questionable horse hockey.
Back to Champions Online:
The whole game is based around combat. They're combat mechanics suck. Full box price, plus a monthly sub, PLUS a cash shop on top of all that? Boo-urns, good sirs... Boo... urns.
A lot of these companies are having to fight to stay alive my friend. They have employees to pay that have families to feed. The reason why MTs are becoming the norm is that the subscription model just isn't getting them enough money to keep them in business. I have no problem paying for a product I enjoy know that the proceeds will go to help someone better their life.
Its people like you that are bringing this country down. This I want it now and I want it for free mind set is destroying everything. Look at Obama's healthcare plan, bailouts, socialism, they all have their roots in the same mindset that gamers use when they bitch about DLC or MTs.
Capitalism is about making money at all costs. To make money you have to have a good product that is resonably priced. Adding MTs to a game does not make a company greedy it is just part of the capitalistic system that has made America great. If you must hold on to your socialist ideals then please leave and go live somewhere in Europe cuz I am sick of it here.
Guffaw...
The subscription fee pricing model = socialism? Remind me to steer clear of any HMO you chair bud.
Capatilism will settle this. If Sub+MT is unpalatable to the majority of the target audience there is not sufficient demand. If it is palatable to a majority then it is in demand. It's that simple. Kryogenic's points are not remotely based in socialism. In fact his opinions as well as yours are proof that capatilism is alive and well in this society. Kryo didn't ask for anything for free. Some of us have an aversion to paying specificly for a set of pixels as opposed to a recurring fee for a medium of entertainment.
To me it's no different than Watching Battle Star Galacitica on Sci Fi and them saying, hey if you want to see the show with full special effects, pay this 10.00 fee. I'm not missing out on the plot, but the product as fully designed is not delivered as a whole so that they can nickel and dime me for what is already there and I have paid for in my cable subscription as well as watching their damn commericals.
I LOVE gross generalizations and sound bites...they make the world go round.
Well said good, sir... and thanks. I was sure I was going to be swamped by posters like Rush Limbaugh... I mean BioNut. lol
The reason why MTs are becoming the norm is that the subscription model just isn't getting them enough money to keep them in business. How do you know this? Other companies seem to be doing just fine without MT. I have no problem paying for a product I enjoy know that the proceeds will go to help someone better their life. Most people do, just that few people are rich enough to not care about pricing. If Half-life 3 was sold at 200USD would you still buy it? Its people like you that are bringing this country down. This I want it now and I want it for free mind set is destroying everything. Look at Obama's healthcare plan, bailouts, socialism, they all have their roots in the same mindset that gamers use when they bitch about DLC or MTs. Capitalism is about making money at all costs. (...)If you must hold on to your socialist ideals then please leave and go live somewhere in Europe cuz I am sick of it here.(...) That's weird because in Socialist Europe (TM) , Capitalism is all about competition. Competition that drives prices DOWN and quality UP , in order to increase the population's standard of living and driving scientific and cultural progress at the same time. Like how Henry Ford dominated the automobile market 60 years ago by paying his workers more and selling his Model-T for less. Everyone has a car now all thanks to people like him who came to understand this simple principle. Socialism (=/= Social democracies aka "Welfare states", look it up) on the other hand, sucks in big ways because to the complete opposite of capitalism, there are too few incentives to drive both prices down and quality up, Price and quality are dictated to the consumer since there are no alternatives. Society just stagnates, rots and dies. Take the Trabant (The People's Car of the USSR) compared to the Model-T as the 40-year old, gas-guzzling, unsafe and uncomfortable piece of shit that only a minority could afford. So tell me, wich "car" is CO? A Model-T or a Trabant? Is it better than the competition? Apparently not. Is it cheaper? No. Has it found a better balance between the two? No. Not like the Model-T then. Is it capitalising on a "norm" that is said to take over the whole industry leaving us with no alternatives for those who don't want MT? Yep. Hmmmmm.
Healthcare and Social democracies are a completely different topic altogether but it just surprises me coming from a people who: - Would draw blood for everyone's right to live ONLY where abortion is concerned... - "Never leave a man behind!" at least in all of their war movies, even for non officers.
To make money you have to have a good product that is resonably priced. Adding MTs to a game does not make a company greedy it is just part of the capitalistic system that has made America great. And when you make a mediocre product (according to user reviews) that's arguably twice the price compared to the competion, do you make money? And this has made America great how?
I agree with what Kryogenic is saying.
I ask one question though. According to Cryptic, If MT items can also be acquired through gameplay... Wich is most likely?
1) The devs will do their best to make Faction grinds absolute gems of AI, story , level design etc.
or
2) The devs won't even bother trying to make Faction grinds fun or even reallistically attainable (1 month grinds -.-).
My vote is on 2. Wich shows the absolute brilliance of MT! Instead of making better games, learn to make more money off worse ones!
What a joke MT's becoming the norm... MT's are in games that are failling and constantly bleeding subs. They are there to get more money because the developers know that their game is a piece of shallow crap that can't retain subs so they try to get what they can while they can get it.
MT's do not belong in true AAA MASSIVE morpgs. Sure in F2P, and shallow crap MMO's let them get what they can. MT's will never exists in a truly massivemorpg of AAA quality that can retain subs.
A lot of these companies are having to fight to stay alive my friend. They have employees to pay that have families to feed. The reason why MTs are becoming the norm is that the subscription model just isn't getting them enough money to keep them in business. I have no problem paying for a product I enjoy know that the proceeds will go to help someone better their life. Its people like you that are bringing this country down. This I want it now and I want it for free mind set is destroying everything. Look at Obama's healthcare plan, bailouts, socialism, they all have their roots in the same mindset that gamers use when they bitch about DLC or MTs. Capitalism is about making money at all costs. To make money you have to have a good product that is resonably priced. Adding MTs to a game does not make a company greedy it is just part of the capitalistic system that has made America great. If you must hold on to your socialist ideals then please leave and go live somewhere in Europe cuz I am sick of it here.
You are actually arguing free will is bad? What does the President of the United States of America have to do with a greedy video game company? Seriously, go polish your rifle, you're a moron and wrong on so many levels it's not even worth posting a serious rebuttal.
A lot of these companies are having to fight to stay alive my friend. They have employees to pay that have families to feed. The reason why MTs are becoming the norm is that the subscription model just isn't getting them enough money to keep them in business. I have no problem paying for a product I enjoy know that the proceeds will go to help someone better their life. Its people like you that are bringing this country down. This I want it now and I want it for free mind set is destroying everything. Look at Obama's healthcare plan, bailouts, socialism, they all have their roots in the same mindset that gamers use when they bitch about DLC or MTs. Capitalism is about making money at all costs. To make money you have to have a good product that is resonably priced. Adding MTs to a game does not make a company greedy it is just part of the capitalistic system that has made America great. If you must hold on to your socialist ideals then please leave and go live somewhere in Europe cuz I am sick of it here.
You are actually arguing free will is bad? What does the President of the United States of America have to do with a greedy video game company? Seriously, go polish your rifle, you're a moron and wrong on so many levels it's not even worth posting a serious rebuttal.
No where did I say anything about free will. I believe in free will as long as it coincides with exactly what our constitution/ bill of rights says.
What I was saying is there is a section of people in the US that just want things given to them. They don't want to earn it they want it for free and they want it now. This is dangerous way of thinking but the liberals have latched onto the idea and have used it to win elections. They call out companies for being "greedy" because thats what the uneducated drivel in society wants to hear.
They don't want to hear that they are personally responsible for having it hard, they want the big greedy companies to be held responsible because they have money.
This goes for the video game world too. You see it in the MT threads all of the time. Companies are all of the sudden greedy for creating a business model.
If you don't see how it all corelates then you have no clue what is going on in our country today. These companies are not using MT for greed, they are using just to get by.
"Subscription fee is not socialism. But demanding everything be free is. The fact that a company wants to add an MT just means they are trying to make money a different way. If it fails then its not a good product but having it does not make them greedy.
Thinking companies are greedy when they try and make money is a socialistic ideal. Don't condemn them for their business model just don't pay for the service."
You are a fountain of amusement, I'll grant you that. Do you even know what socialism is, or are you spouting it because you heard it on TV once? The largest amount of our "socialist welfare" by far goes to corporations, greedy corporations. They are the main cause of our economic woes, it's common knowledge.
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith
We owe corporations nothing, they owe us if they want to fleece us, to think otherwise shows a great lack of self-interest. Capitalism has only recently become about acquiring wealth at the expense of all else, which insures it will in the end destroy itself because it has become unsustainable. Greed is not a virtue, regardless of how much it has become a religion in our nation, there was a time when it was considered a vice.
"Subscription fee is not socialism. But demanding everything be free is. The fact that a company wants to add an MT just means they are trying to make money a different way. If it fails then its not a good product but having it does not make them greedy.
Thinking companies are greedy when they try and make money is a socialistic ideal. Don't condemn them for their business model just don't pay for the service."
You are a fountain of amusement, I'll grant you that. Do you even know what socialism is, or are you spouting it because you heard it on TV once? The largest amount of our "socialist welfare" by far goes to corporations, greedy corporations. They are the main cause of our economic woes, it's common knowledge. "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith We owe corporations nothing, they owe us if they want to fleece us, to think otherwise shows a great lack of self-interest. Capitalism has only recently become about acquiring wealth at the expense of all else, which insures it will in the end destroy itself because it has become unsustainable. Greed is not a virtue, regardless of how much it has become a religion in our nation, there was a time when it was considered a vice.
Do you have evidence to support this common knowledge?
I know what socialism is at least in practice.
Socialism tries to clip both the bottom and the top of society off so that everyone is the same. This is done to create a utopian society but negates human nature. I believe it was Marx that first came up with the idea...or maybe he just refined it.
Socialism breeds mediocrity and downplays personal responsibility because the government will take care of it. The range between the rich and the poor would be much smaller thus everyone will be equally miserable.
To me there is not much difference between socialism and communism.
I was comparing people calling companies greedy to socialism not because they are inherently the same but because of the mindset socialism creates. The "give me now" mindset.
A lot of these companies are having to fight to stay alive my friend. They have employees to pay that have families to feed. The reason why MTs are becoming the norm is that the subscription model just isn't getting them enough money to keep them in business. I have no problem paying for a product I enjoy know that the proceeds will go to help someone better their life. Its people like you that are bringing this country down. This I want it now and I want it for free mind set is destroying everything. Look at Obama's healthcare plan, bailouts, socialism, they all have their roots in the same mindset that gamers use when they bitch about DLC or MTs. Capitalism is about making money at all costs. To make money you have to have a good product that is resonably priced. Adding MTs to a game does not make a company greedy it is just part of the capitalistic system that has made America great. If you must hold on to your socialist ideals then please leave and go live somewhere in Europe cuz I am sick of it here.
You are actually arguing free will is bad? What does the President of the United States of America have to do with a greedy video game company? Seriously, go polish your rifle, you're a moron and wrong on so many levels it's not even worth posting a serious rebuttal.
No where did I say anything about free will. I believe in free will as long as it coincides with exactly what our constitution/ bill of rights says.
What I was saying is there is a section of people in the US that just want things given to them. They don't want to earn it they want it for free and they want it now. This is dangerous way of thinking but the liberals have latched onto the idea and have used it to win elections. They call out companies for being "greedy" because thats what the uneducated drivel in society wants to hear.
They don't want to hear that they are personally responsible for having it hard, they want the big greedy companies to be held responsible because they have money.
This goes for the video game world too. You see it in the MT threads all of the time. Companies are all of the sudden greedy for creating a business model.
If you don't see how it all corelates then you have no clue what is going on in our country today. These companies are not using MT for greed, they are using just to get by.
You believe in free will as long as it exactly...hahaha. Oh sweet fancy tap dancing Moses, it has happened!
Justify it how you will, if Cryptic can not "get by" on charging 50 bucks for a game, 15 bucks a month and for ex-pacs, like all other premium MMOs they deserve to fail, and fail horridly. You're preaching some sort of socialist blather saying the masses should support a business model that we do not agree with so as they can "survive." We are not being given anything, 50 bucks for the game plus 15 a month is not considered "free" where I come from.
And for the record people call out greed because they are good consumers not because they are "OH NOES EVIL LIBRULZ," do not attempt to transfer your apathy towards greed upon me. Frankly I'm disgusted Americans or so infected with the ideal of greed being paramount to success it makes me want to puke. Your right-wing scree is pointless here and it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, just your issues.
"Subscription fee is not socialism. But demanding everything be free is. The fact that a company wants to add an MT just means they are trying to make money a different way. If it fails then its not a good product but having it does not make them greedy.
Thinking companies are greedy when they try and make money is a socialistic ideal. Don't condemn them for their business model just don't pay for the service."
You are a fountain of amusement, I'll grant you that. Do you even know what socialism is, or are you spouting it because you heard it on TV once? The largest amount of our "socialist welfare" by far goes to corporations, greedy corporations. They are the main cause of our economic woes, it's common knowledge. "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith We owe corporations nothing, they owe us if they want to fleece us, to think otherwise shows a great lack of self-interest. Capitalism has only recently become about acquiring wealth at the expense of all else, which insures it will in the end destroy itself because it has become unsustainable. Greed is not a virtue, regardless of how much it has become a religion in our nation, there was a time when it was considered a vice.
Do you have evidence to support this common knowledge?
I know what socialism is at least in practice.
Socialism tries to clip both the bottom and the top of society off so that everyone is the same. This is done to create a utopian society but negates human nature. I believe it was Marx that first came up with the idea...or maybe he just refined it.
Socialism breeds mediocrity and downplays personal responsibility because the government will take care of it. The range between the rich and the poor would be much smaller thus everyone will be equally miserable.
To me there is not much difference between socialism and communism.
I was comparing people calling companies greedy to socialism not because they are inherently the same but because of the mindset socialism creates. The "give me now" mindset.
A lot of these companies are having to fight to stay alive my friend. They have employees to pay that have families to feed. The reason why MTs are becoming the norm is that the subscription model just isn't getting them enough money to keep them in business. I have no problem paying for a product I enjoy know that the proceeds will go to help someone better their life. Its people like you that are bringing this country down. This I want it now and I want it for free mind set is destroying everything. Look at Obama's healthcare plan, bailouts, socialism, they all have their roots in the same mindset that gamers use when they bitch about DLC or MTs. Capitalism is about making money at all costs. To make money you have to have a good product that is resonably priced. Adding MTs to a game does not make a company greedy it is just part of the capitalistic system that has made America great. If you must hold on to your socialist ideals then please leave and go live somewhere in Europe cuz I am sick of it here.
You are actually arguing free will is bad? What does the President of the United States of America have to do with a greedy video game company? Seriously, go polish your rifle, you're a moron and wrong on so many levels it's not even worth posting a serious rebuttal.
No where did I say anything about free will. I believe in free will as long as it coincides with exactly what our constitution/ bill of rights says.
What I was saying is there is a section of people in the US that just want things given to them. They don't want to earn it they want it for free and they want it now. This is dangerous way of thinking but the liberals have latched onto the idea and have used it to win elections. They call out companies for being "greedy" because thats what the uneducated drivel in society wants to hear.
They don't want to hear that they are personally responsible for having it hard, they want the big greedy companies to be held responsible because they have money.
This goes for the video game world too. You see it in the MT threads all of the time. Companies are all of the sudden greedy for creating a business model.
If you don't see how it all corelates then you have no clue what is going on in our country today. These companies are not using MT for greed, they are using just to get by.
You believe in free will as long as it exactly...hahaha. Oh sweet fancy tap dancing Moses, it has happened!
Justify it how you will, if Cryptic can not "get by" on charging 50 bucks for a game, 15 bucks a month and for ex-pacs, like all other premium MMOs they deserve to fail, and fail horridly. You're preaching some sort of socialist blather saying the masses should support a business model that we do not agree with so as they can "survive." We are not being given anything, 50 bucks for the game plus 15 a month is not considered "free" where I come from.
And for the record people call out greed because they are good consumers not because they are "OH NOES EVIL LIBRULZ," do not attempt to transfer your apathy towards greed upon me. Frankly I'm disgusted Americans or so infected with the ideal of greed being paramount to success it makes me want to puke. Your right-wing scree is pointless here and it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, just your issues.
Yeah I cringed when I reread that sentence. But it made me realize that even as Americans we don't have complete free will. We have laws and the lick which limit that. So while my statement is silly it is the truth. Americans should have free will to do what they want as long as it coincides with our original laws.
I am not a republican nor "right wing" I am a libertarian and I believe that both parties are dead wrong. So stop labeling me as Rush.
I did not say people should support it. I just said they shouldn't demonize it. If you don't like it don't pay and let the system work itself out. Seems like you are stereotyping me as well.
"Subscription fee is not socialism. But demanding everything be free is. The fact that a company wants to add an MT just means they are trying to make money a different way. If it fails then its not a good product but having it does not make them greedy.
Thinking companies are greedy when they try and make money is a socialistic ideal. Don't condemn them for their business model just don't pay for the service."
You are a fountain of amusement, I'll grant you that. Do you even know what socialism is, or are you spouting it because you heard it on TV once? The largest amount of our "socialist welfare" by far goes to corporations, greedy corporations. They are the main cause of our economic woes, it's common knowledge. "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith We owe corporations nothing, they owe us if they want to fleece us, to think otherwise shows a great lack of self-interest. Capitalism has only recently become about acquiring wealth at the expense of all else, which insures it will in the end destroy itself because it has become unsustainable. Greed is not a virtue, regardless of how much it has become a religion in our nation, there was a time when it was considered a vice.
Do you have evidence to support this common knowledge?
I know what socialism is at least in practice.
Socialism tries to clip both the bottom and the top of society off so that everyone is the same. This is done to create a utopian society but negates human nature. I believe it was Marx that first came up with the idea...or maybe he just refined it.
Socialism breeds mediocrity and downplays personal responsibility because the government will take care of it. The range between the rich and the poor would be much smaller thus everyone will be equally miserable.
To me there is not much difference between socialism and communism.
I was comparing people calling companies greedy to socialism not because they are inherently the same but because of the mindset socialism creates. The "give me now" mindset.
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.
Collectivism
The principles or system of ownership and control of the means of production and distribution by the people collectively, usually under the supervision of a government.
"Subscription fee is not socialism. But demanding everything be free is. The fact that a company wants to add an MT just means they are trying to make money a different way. If it fails then its not a good product but having it does not make them greedy.
Thinking companies are greedy when they try and make money is a socialistic ideal. Don't condemn them for their business model just don't pay for the service."
You are a fountain of amusement, I'll grant you that. Do you even know what socialism is, or are you spouting it because you heard it on TV once? The largest amount of our "socialist welfare" by far goes to corporations, greedy corporations. They are the main cause of our economic woes, it's common knowledge. "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith We owe corporations nothing, they owe us if they want to fleece us, to think otherwise shows a great lack of self-interest. Capitalism has only recently become about acquiring wealth at the expense of all else, which insures it will in the end destroy itself because it has become unsustainable. Greed is not a virtue, regardless of how much it has become a religion in our nation, there was a time when it was considered a vice.
I whole-heartedly agree. Corporate greed and irresponsible consuming have sucked the life and vitality from this country.
When you spend money as a responsible and informed consumer and refrain from supporting questionable business practices you are showing that company and, through extrapolation, other companies that we the consumer will not be sucked in by this kind of stuff.
The problem with the video game industry is that the majority of the consumers who support it are too young to know the value of a dollar and/or are just plain ignorant insofar as how their actions as consumers affect the industry as a whole.
The greed and exploitation in the video game industry is the microcosm of the greed and exploitation that has been going on for quite some time in this country.
Look at what corporate mentality and greed did to the music industry. It's happening to the video game industry, and it's embaressingly apparent in the MMORPG genre.
Look at all of the worthless cash-in attempts that have no soul, no depth, no consideration for the consumer's wants.
I would never turn my nose up at free stuff, but I also have no problem paying for the things that I want. I have no problem paying for a quality game that would bring hours, days, weeks, and months of enjoyment.
The problem is that when people like BioNut support lackluster games it then becomes ok for other companies to flush out garbage. Why should they rethink the grinds and timesinks when there are always more suckers lined up to pay for their subpar entertainment.
It's up to us the players to hold the companies responsible for making the games we play to a higher standard and therefore raise the bar to a new level of emmersion, enjoyment, and fun. As long as we keep buying crap they'll continue to make it.
If however, we stand united against subpar games and questionable business models, we can help chnge the state of the industry.
"Subscription fee is not socialism. But demanding everything be free is. The fact that a company wants to add an MT just means they are trying to make money a different way. If it fails then its not a good product but having it does not make them greedy.
Thinking companies are greedy when they try and make money is a socialistic ideal. Don't condemn them for their business model just don't pay for the service."
You are a fountain of amusement, I'll grant you that. Do you even know what socialism is, or are you spouting it because you heard it on TV once? The largest amount of our "socialist welfare" by far goes to corporations, greedy corporations. They are the main cause of our economic woes, it's common knowledge. "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith We owe corporations nothing, they owe us if they want to fleece us, to think otherwise shows a great lack of self-interest. Capitalism has only recently become about acquiring wealth at the expense of all else, which insures it will in the end destroy itself because it has become unsustainable. Greed is not a virtue, regardless of how much it has become a religion in our nation, there was a time when it was considered a vice.
I whole-heartedly agree. Corporate greed and irresponsible consuming have sucked the life and vitality from this country.
When you spend money as a responsible and informed consumer and refrain from supporting questionable business practices you are showing that company and, through extrapolation, other companies that we the consumer will not be sucked in by this kind of stuff.
The problem with the video game industry is that the majority of the consumers who support it are too young to know the value of a dollar and/or are just plain ignorant insofar as how their actions as consumers affect the industry as a whole.
The greed and exploitation in the video game industry is the microcosm of the greed and exploitation that has been going on for quite some time in this country.
Look at what corporate mentality and greed did to the music industry. It's happening to the video game industry, and it's embaressingly apparent in the MMORPG genre.
Look at all of the worthless cash-in attempts that have no soul, no depth, no consideration for the consumer's wants.
I would never turn my nose up at free stuff, but I also have no problem paying for the things that I want. I have no problem paying for a quality game that would bring hours, days, weeks, and months of enjoyment.
The problem is that when people like BioNut support lackluster games it then becomes ok for other companies to flush out garbage. Why should they rethink the grinds and timesinks when there are always more suckers lined up to pay for their subpar entertainment.
It's up to us the players to hold the companies responsible for making the games we play to a higher standard and therefore raise the bar to a new level of emmersion, enjoyment, and fun. As long as we keep buying crap they'll continue to make it.
If however, we stand united against subpar games and questionable business models, we can help chnge the state of the industry.
I don't disagree with people spending money wisely but at the same time who elected you to say what is wise or not? If someone wants to support a game they love by using MTs then let them. If a lot of people support it then it will become mainstream. If nobody does it will fail.
Problem is a lot of people on these boards want to see it fail before they even know how it works. How do you know its shady? Greedy? If you see something you want and it will make you happy then it has worth to you. If the price is unreasonable then you might not buy it....wouldn't be worth it.
I bought a track IR the other day because it looked cool, not because I needed it. It has worth to me but other people would say it is a niche device and you shouldn't spend money on stuff like that.
Originally posted by Kryogenic I whole-heartedly agree. Corporate greed and irresponsible consuming have sucked the life and vitality from this country. When you spend money as a responsible and informed consumer and refrain from supporting questionable business practices you are showing that company and, through extrapolation, other companies that we the consumer will not be sucked in by this kind of stuff. The problem with the video game industry is that the majority of the consumers who support it are too young to know the value of a dollar and/or are just plain ignorant insofar as how their actions as consumers affect the industry as a whole. The greed and exploitation in the video game industry is the microcosm of the greed and exploitation that has been going on for quite some time in this country. Look at what corporate mentality and greed did to the music industry. It's happening to the video game industry, and it's embaressingly apparent in the MMORPG genre. Look at all of the worthless cash-in attempts that have no soul, no depth, no consideration for the consumer's wants. I would never turn my nose up at free stuff, but I also have no problem paying for the things that I want. I have no problem paying for a quality game that would bring hours, days, weeks, and months of enjoyment. The problem is that when people like BioNut support lackluster games it then becomes ok for other companies to flush out garbage. Why should they rethink the grinds and timesinks when there are always more suckers lined up to pay for their subpar entertainment. It's up to us the players to hold the companies responsible for making the games we play to a higher standard and therefore raise the bar to a new level of emmersion, enjoyment, and fun. As long as we keep buying crap they'll continue to make it. If however, we stand united against subpar games and questionable business models, we can help chnge the state of the industry.
Indeed, companies rely on the fact most Americans are apathetic or just plain ignorant. This is nothing new and innovative it's them hammering together as many payment models as they can and hoping it will become an industry standard. It's obvious CO is a testbed for ST:O, if this even remotely works for CO they will expand upon it greatly in ST:O which many consider to be a huge IP.
Once they went open BETA and the forums started churning out massive amounts of posts, the thread a dev started asking how people felt about MTs had it's sticky status removed with zero explanation and no answers (after stating in the initial post that was the whole purpose of the thread). It was a few pages off the front before anyone noticed, it's clear they just want the whole ordeal to die with minimum fuss. As a matter of fact they started a new thread (a dev) asking what we'd like to see most in costume pieces. I wonder why they'd ask that...
"Subscription fee is not socialism. But demanding everything be free is. The fact that a company wants to add an MT just means they are trying to make money a different way. If it fails then its not a good product but having it does not make them greedy.
Thinking companies are greedy when they try and make money is a socialistic ideal. Don't condemn them for their business model just don't pay for the service."
You are a fountain of amusement, I'll grant you that. Do you even know what socialism is, or are you spouting it because you heard it on TV once? The largest amount of our "socialist welfare" by far goes to corporations, greedy corporations. They are the main cause of our economic woes, it's common knowledge. "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith We owe corporations nothing, they owe us if they want to fleece us, to think otherwise shows a great lack of self-interest. Capitalism has only recently become about acquiring wealth at the expense of all else, which insures it will in the end destroy itself because it has become unsustainable. Greed is not a virtue, regardless of how much it has become a religion in our nation, there was a time when it was considered a vice.
I whole-heartedly agree. Corporate greed and irresponsible consuming have sucked the life and vitality from this country.
When you spend money as a responsible and informed consumer and refrain from supporting questionable business practices you are showing that company and, through extrapolation, other companies that we the consumer will not be sucked in by this kind of stuff.
The problem with the video game industry is that the majority of the consumers who support it are too young to know the value of a dollar and/or are just plain ignorant insofar as how their actions as consumers affect the industry as a whole.
The greed and exploitation in the video game industry is the microcosm of the greed and exploitation that has been going on for quite some time in this country.
Look at what corporate mentality and greed did to the music industry. It's happening to the video game industry, and it's embaressingly apparent in the MMORPG genre.
Look at all of the worthless cash-in attempts that have no soul, no depth, no consideration for the consumer's wants.
I would never turn my nose up at free stuff, but I also have no problem paying for the things that I want. I have no problem paying for a quality game that would bring hours, days, weeks, and months of enjoyment.
The problem is that when people like BioNut support lackluster games it then becomes ok for other companies to flush out garbage. Why should they rethink the grinds and timesinks when there are always more suckers lined up to pay for their subpar entertainment.
It's up to us the players to hold the companies responsible for making the games we play to a higher standard and therefore raise the bar to a new level of emmersion, enjoyment, and fun. As long as we keep buying crap they'll continue to make it.
If however, we stand united against subpar games and questionable business models, we can help chnge the state of the industry.
I don't disagree with people spending money wisely but at the same time who elected you to say what is wise or not? If someone wants to support a game they love by using MTs then let them. If a lot of people support it then it will become mainstream. If nobody does it will fail.
Problem is a lot of people on these boards want to see it fail before they even know how it works. How do you know its shady? Greedy? If you see something you want and it will make you happy then it has worth to you. If the price is unreasonable then you might not buy it....wouldn't be worth it.
I bought a track IR the other day because it looked cool, not because I needed it. It has worth to me but other people would say it is a niche device and you shouldn't spend money on stuff like that.
People with money have more than most in RL, should they have more than most in a GD game too! I don't know about anyone else , but I don't pay people so they create content for "other" people! If EVERYTHING in the store is available with a little effort in game ... then fine but I'm pretty sure only some of it is. Or down the line they start puttign w/e they want in it to make more money. What is to say tanking subs won't cause them to put other things on the MT store so they bilk more money out of the loyal customers who aren't leaving.
I don't like it at all, but of course I don't have to play and I won't. Why would anyone want this to become a standard form of payment model?
All in all, I think it is a reasonable review, but there are some points that seems to be missing and areas that I've had a different experience with:
Interesting that there is no mention of the customization of the individual powers. It is true that the number of powers is relatively small, but part of the leveling process involves applying bonuses or additional abilities to those individual powers. This creates more significant customization than CoH (which also has a relatively small number of powers available to the user), and a little bit more inline with talents in WoW.
Interesting that cooldowns figure prominently in the initial part of your review. It is true that there are some cooldowns with some powers, but it is hardly a pervasive issue in the game. I've played around with 3 different toons so far and haven't encountered it myself, and heard about it only through one of my friends (3 of us are playing concurrently choosing different toons) on one of her toons.
Power imbalances in a new MMO? I've never heard of such a thing (/sarcasm)
I do agree that the percentages approach to powers can create a nerfing nightmare. I'm hoping that Cryptic learned some lessons from CoH, and that they won't have to be as extreme in their balancing...I'm still a bit miffed at what they did to my regen scrapper...
The team-play portion of your review was rather shocking to me. The game has been more stable and solid than some of the long-running MMOs (including CoH that I also reactivated back in February). We've not encountered anyone missing from the maps, although we did learn to play with the zoom on the mini-map pretty early.
I've not seen any performance issues on a modern platform. You do realize that the P4 was initially shipped in 2000, if you are running a 32-bit OS you really only have about 3 GB RAM, and the 4750 can't do but so much by itself. I did have to turn down the graphics a bit on my son's computer (about 3 years old, don't remember the specs, but it at least had a dual-core processor) because of noticable, but it's nowhere near set to the bottom on graphics. Minimum specs are always disappointing for any software.
My quick take on the game (mostly differences compared to other MMOs I've played):
An enjoyable change from the other MMOs (my experience is primarily WoW, CoX, Guild Wars, LoTRO, Warhammer Online).
Although the characters are "cartoonish" in appearance, a lot of the background is pretty sharp...and the toons themselves are actually pretty detailed, but the cell-shading gives the different look.
Once you understand all the customization (look for buttons that unlock advanced features), the number of combinations actually start to get a bit overwhelming; this applies to character customization as well as power customization.
Active blocking makes for an interesting dynamic. Dodging is passive, but blocking becomes an active decision on part of the player.
The tutorial zone is very well done which is a big plus for new players where most MMOs tutorial zones are rather minimal; but will be a negative to experienced MMO players.
Open group mission areas are a nice touch (like Warhammer) for variety.
Crafting system seems to be a bit clumsy at this point. But kudos for being able to research to gain skill points in lieu of grinding out goods (like WoW).
The travel powers are very entertaining and more interactive (e.g. super jump does require that you use the space bar for each jump).
Nice ability to test out your power choices before locking them in. If you aren't sure about which power or customization you want, pick one, go to the back room and test it out. If you don't like it, you can "respec" for free (as long as you don't exit the training area) and try something else.
Concern about leveling so quick. You can very easily get to level 10 in a few hours...with a level 40 cap currently, it seems a bit hasty; but it does serve to minimize the time that you have only a few powers.
Out of interest; Bionut, your in game alias is not "Joseph Mcarthy" perchance?
I shall wait and see about these micro transactions. I'm not aware of them actually releasing information on specifics that can be brought, only loose collections items. To decide you're not going to buy the game based on early ideas of micro transactions is a little hasty, no? Some people might even believe that if you do take this approach... You weren't planning on buying this game in the first place! Having played a little in the closed beta (unfortunately the severely bugged patcher and account servers prevents me from playing a lot) I have had fun. I just wonder how long Cryptic will be able sustain this fun.
Just to stick my neck out there.. The whole MT system won't be that bad. They've already stated that any gameplay-changing items will be available to players - and from what I've seen costumes will be as well. It's not like CoH/V didn't have a similar system after all.
Furthermore, think the MT system has more to do with the Lifetime and 6-Month Subscribers rather than normal monthly subscribers. Think of it like this:
Lifetime Subscription Example
(Notice: The math isn't going to be 100% accurate given that 14 months at $15/Mo equates to $210, not $200. I'm also not taking into account the free month attained by simply buying the game. If you wish to nitpick, just read "5 Years" as "5 years and 1 Month".)
Buy the lifetime subscription right now for $200, in 14 months you'll be playing the game for free (When being compared to the $15/Mo subscription model). That is, free for as long as the game lasts. If it lasts 5 years? You will have only paid for 1 Year and 2 Months of time. That's roughly 47 free months and $700 that Cryptic would never get... $700 from one person. Now, what if 10,000 people grabbed the lifetime subscription? That's $7,000,000 Cyptic misses out on in the span of 5 years. Add/Subtract Zeros as you wish, any amount over $700,000 is a lot of lost money no matter how you look at it.
6-Month Subscription Example
Comparatively get the 6-Month subscription package for $60/6 Months (Or $10 a month). That's a good deal, and in time that's a lot of lost money for Cryptic. Of course it's not as bad as the losses from a lifetime subscriber, but losses are losses. Lets take the 5-year example from above and adapt it. $120 a year, $600 after 5 years. Paying $15 a month would be $180 a year, $900 after 5 years. Say 10,000 people chose that payment model - Cryptic loses out on roughly $3,000,000 in 5 years time.
For those who hate looking at numbers in a forum, the point is that the Micro-Transaction system isn't Cryptic being greedy, it's them trying to recoup losses from the aforementioned deals. The MT system is geared towards adding an additional reward to players who chose a long-term subscription model while still allowing players who wish to play month-by-month to drop a little extra money on the same items if they so chose. Could it imbalance the game? Maybe. I'm not a Cryptic Developer, I wouldn't know - I have faith, though, they're not going to allow such a system to ruin the game because Player A is a rich bastard while Player B is eating Ramen in a college dorm doing odd jobs just to pay for the game alone.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
As far as the game itself goes.. It's love it or hate it. Just like CoH/V the game will continue to expand and grow to be fairly massive (It already is rather Massive, and has great replay value). It fulfills the Superhero MMO Niche quite well given the vast customization for your characters. The progression in the game is excellently done and allows for a player to have a completely different experience on an alternate character.
Personally, I think it's an above-average MMO given it's genre and style. It's certainly geared towards a specific audience, but Champions Online still has enough features to be inviting to gamers who aren't huge fans of the Super Hero genre. It's not WoW, it's not Aion and I'll be surprised if it gains success even remotely close to either of those games. In it's own right, though, it is a great game and certainly worth a look. Are there inherent problems? Yes, plenty - not one of those problems is enough to make the game not enjoyable however. They're all small little issues Cryptic has been working hard to fix, and they are getting fixed - much faster than most MMOs manage to fix their problems.
The controls in the game are horrid... clunky and badly designed. I like how they give you a few different control sets, but regardless they are bad. Attacking enemies tends to be very slow and awkward. The character customization is fun, though it wont take long for a player to recognize many of the commonly used visuals such as large wings or claws. Quests so far have been boring, though they make up for that with an active world. Really annoying enemies tend to appear out of no where, again mixed with the combat system and targeting... it can be a pain in the butt.
I would have to say the quality of the game is average. It could have spent more time in production, could have been much better designed. Will make a fun console game, but a mediocre PC title.
Overall impression is that this game ranges between a 6.5-7.5/10 give or take. CoH/CoV definately had the controls down better, the design and appeal seemed better thought out and developed. I cant help but feel champions is a mimicry of better games, but is meant mainly to be an entry into the console mmorpg market...not necessarily a very good one, just an entry none the less.
Comments
What are you talking about? Other than the vague press releases, no one knows anything about the MT's. No one has seen the Cryptic shop.
The OP was just guessing and since he seems to have a negative bias, his guess is negative as well.
I beg to differ. The first day the game was in open beta I read multiple posts on the forums from people who were pretty upset because costume parts that they used in alpha and closed beta weren't available in open beta.
I wonder where those costume pieces are going to be? The cash shop? No... they would never do that. (Please note that this forum has no Times New Sarcasm font so you'll have to use your imagination.)
I really wish that gamers in general would start wising up to all of the sheisty business practices that have been getting worse and worse.
If you support these questionable business practices those same shady practices will be picked up and adopted by other companies.
It's even happening with console gaming as well. You "superior" PC purists can look down your runny noses at all of the "unwashed masses of console cavemen", but one day PC gaming will be just as bad if not worse. Developers are releasing games on the 360 and holding back content or locking content on the disks to be sold piece meal to who ever is willing to part with even more cash than they all ready paid for the "full" game.
The Modern Warfare 2 developers even entertained the notion of charging a subscription fee for players who wanted to level up faster by getting more exp than the people that aren't mindless pleeebs and are unwilling to pony up a monthly fee for some smarmy questionable horse hockey.
Back to Champions Online:
The whole game is based around combat. They're combat mechanics suck. Full box price, plus a monthly sub, PLUS a cash shop on top of all that? Boo-urns, good sirs... Boo... urns.
A lot of these companies are having to fight to stay alive my friend. They have employees to pay that have families to feed. The reason why MTs are becoming the norm is that the subscription model just isn't getting them enough money to keep them in business. I have no problem paying for a product I enjoy know that the proceeds will go to help someone better their life.
Its people like you that are bringing this country down. This I want it now and I want it for free mind set is destroying everything. Look at Obama's healthcare plan, bailouts, socialism, they all have their roots in the same mindset that gamers use when they bitch about DLC or MTs.
Capitalism is about making money at all costs. To make money you have to have a good product that is resonably priced. Adding MTs to a game does not make a company greedy it is just part of the capitalistic system that has made America great. If you must hold on to your socialist ideals then please leave and go live somewhere in Europe cuz I am sick of it here.
Guffaw...
The subscription fee pricing model = socialism? Remind me to steer clear of any HMO you chair bud.
Capatilism will settle this. If Sub+MT is unpalatable to the majority of the target audience there is not sufficient demand. If it is palatable to a majority then it is in demand. It's that simple. Kryogenic's points are not remotely based in socialism. In fact his opinions as well as yours are proof that capatilism is alive and well in this society. Kryo didn't ask for anything for free. Some of us have an aversion to paying specificly for a set of pixels as opposed to a recurring fee for a medium of entertainment.
To me it's no different than Watching Battle Star Galacitica on Sci Fi and them saying, hey if you want to see the show with full special effects, pay this 10.00 fee. I'm not missing out on the plot, but the product as fully designed is not delivered as a whole so that they can nickel and dime me for what is already there and I have paid for in my cable subscription as well as watching their damn commericals.
I LOVE gross generalizations and sound bites...they make the world go round.
Well said good, sir... and thanks. I was sure I was going to be swamped by posters like Rush Limbaugh... I mean BioNut. lol
I agree with what Kryogenic is saying.
I ask one question though. According to Cryptic, If MT items can also be acquired through gameplay... Wich is most likely?
1) The devs will do their best to make Faction grinds absolute gems of AI, story , level design etc.
or
2) The devs won't even bother trying to make Faction grinds fun or even reallistically attainable (1 month grinds -.-).
My vote is on 2. Wich shows the absolute brilliance of MT! Instead of making better games, learn to make more money off worse ones!
What a joke MT's becoming the norm... MT's are in games that are failling and constantly bleeding subs. They are there to get more money because the developers know that their game is a piece of shallow crap that can't retain subs so they try to get what they can while they can get it.
MT's do not belong in true AAA MASSIVE morpgs. Sure in F2P, and shallow crap MMO's let them get what they can. MT's will never exists in a truly massivemorpg of AAA quality that can retain subs.
You are actually arguing free will is bad? What does the President of the United States of America have to do with a greedy video game company? Seriously, go polish your rifle, you're a moron and wrong on so many levels it's not even worth posting a serious rebuttal.
You are actually arguing free will is bad? What does the President of the United States of America have to do with a greedy video game company? Seriously, go polish your rifle, you're a moron and wrong on so many levels it's not even worth posting a serious rebuttal.
No where did I say anything about free will. I believe in free will as long as it coincides with exactly what our constitution/ bill of rights says.
What I was saying is there is a section of people in the US that just want things given to them. They don't want to earn it they want it for free and they want it now. This is dangerous way of thinking but the liberals have latched onto the idea and have used it to win elections. They call out companies for being "greedy" because thats what the uneducated drivel in society wants to hear.
They don't want to hear that they are personally responsible for having it hard, they want the big greedy companies to be held responsible because they have money.
This goes for the video game world too. You see it in the MT threads all of the time. Companies are all of the sudden greedy for creating a business model.
If you don't see how it all corelates then you have no clue what is going on in our country today. These companies are not using MT for greed, they are using just to get by.
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
"Subscription fee is not socialism. But demanding everything be free is. The fact that a company wants to add an MT just means they are trying to make money a different way. If it fails then its not a good product but having it does not make them greedy.
Thinking companies are greedy when they try and make money is a socialistic ideal. Don't condemn them for their business model just don't pay for the service."
You are a fountain of amusement, I'll grant you that. Do you even know what socialism is, or are you spouting it because you heard it on TV once? The largest amount of our "socialist welfare" by far goes to corporations, greedy corporations. They are the main cause of our economic woes, it's common knowledge.
"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest." Adam Smith
We owe corporations nothing, they owe us if they want to fleece us, to think otherwise shows a great lack of self-interest. Capitalism has only recently become about acquiring wealth at the expense of all else, which insures it will in the end destroy itself because it has become unsustainable. Greed is not a virtue, regardless of how much it has become a religion in our nation, there was a time when it was considered a vice.
Do you have evidence to support this common knowledge?
I know what socialism is at least in practice.
Socialism tries to clip both the bottom and the top of society off so that everyone is the same. This is done to create a utopian society but negates human nature. I believe it was Marx that first came up with the idea...or maybe he just refined it.
Socialism breeds mediocrity and downplays personal responsibility because the government will take care of it. The range between the rich and the poor would be much smaller thus everyone will be equally miserable.
To me there is not much difference between socialism and communism.
I was comparing people calling companies greedy to socialism not because they are inherently the same but because of the mindset socialism creates. The "give me now" mindset.
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
You are actually arguing free will is bad? What does the President of the United States of America have to do with a greedy video game company? Seriously, go polish your rifle, you're a moron and wrong on so many levels it's not even worth posting a serious rebuttal.
No where did I say anything about free will. I believe in free will as long as it coincides with exactly what our constitution/ bill of rights says.
What I was saying is there is a section of people in the US that just want things given to them. They don't want to earn it they want it for free and they want it now. This is dangerous way of thinking but the liberals have latched onto the idea and have used it to win elections. They call out companies for being "greedy" because thats what the uneducated drivel in society wants to hear.
They don't want to hear that they are personally responsible for having it hard, they want the big greedy companies to be held responsible because they have money.
This goes for the video game world too. You see it in the MT threads all of the time. Companies are all of the sudden greedy for creating a business model.
If you don't see how it all corelates then you have no clue what is going on in our country today. These companies are not using MT for greed, they are using just to get by.
You believe in free will as long as it exactly...hahaha. Oh sweet fancy tap dancing Moses, it has happened!
Justify it how you will, if Cryptic can not "get by" on charging 50 bucks for a game, 15 bucks a month and for ex-pacs, like all other premium MMOs they deserve to fail, and fail horridly. You're preaching some sort of socialist blather saying the masses should support a business model that we do not agree with so as they can "survive." We are not being given anything, 50 bucks for the game plus 15 a month is not considered "free" where I come from.
And for the record people call out greed because they are good consumers not because they are "OH NOES EVIL LIBRULZ," do not attempt to transfer your apathy towards greed upon me. Frankly I'm disgusted Americans or so infected with the ideal of greed being paramount to success it makes me want to puke. Your right-wing scree is pointless here and it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, just your issues.
Do you have evidence to support this common knowledge?
I know what socialism is at least in practice.
Socialism tries to clip both the bottom and the top of society off so that everyone is the same. This is done to create a utopian society but negates human nature. I believe it was Marx that first came up with the idea...or maybe he just refined it.
Socialism breeds mediocrity and downplays personal responsibility because the government will take care of it. The range between the rich and the poor would be much smaller thus everyone will be equally miserable.
To me there is not much difference between socialism and communism.
I was comparing people calling companies greedy to socialism not because they are inherently the same but because of the mindset socialism creates. The "give me now" mindset.
You have no clue, I'm glad you freely admit it.
You are actually arguing free will is bad? What does the President of the United States of America have to do with a greedy video game company? Seriously, go polish your rifle, you're a moron and wrong on so many levels it's not even worth posting a serious rebuttal.
No where did I say anything about free will. I believe in free will as long as it coincides with exactly what our constitution/ bill of rights says.
What I was saying is there is a section of people in the US that just want things given to them. They don't want to earn it they want it for free and they want it now. This is dangerous way of thinking but the liberals have latched onto the idea and have used it to win elections. They call out companies for being "greedy" because thats what the uneducated drivel in society wants to hear.
They don't want to hear that they are personally responsible for having it hard, they want the big greedy companies to be held responsible because they have money.
This goes for the video game world too. You see it in the MT threads all of the time. Companies are all of the sudden greedy for creating a business model.
If you don't see how it all corelates then you have no clue what is going on in our country today. These companies are not using MT for greed, they are using just to get by.
You believe in free will as long as it exactly...hahaha. Oh sweet fancy tap dancing Moses, it has happened!
Justify it how you will, if Cryptic can not "get by" on charging 50 bucks for a game, 15 bucks a month and for ex-pacs, like all other premium MMOs they deserve to fail, and fail horridly. You're preaching some sort of socialist blather saying the masses should support a business model that we do not agree with so as they can "survive." We are not being given anything, 50 bucks for the game plus 15 a month is not considered "free" where I come from.
And for the record people call out greed because they are good consumers not because they are "OH NOES EVIL LIBRULZ," do not attempt to transfer your apathy towards greed upon me. Frankly I'm disgusted Americans or so infected with the ideal of greed being paramount to success it makes me want to puke. Your right-wing scree is pointless here and it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, just your issues.
Yeah I cringed when I reread that sentence. But it made me realize that even as Americans we don't have complete free will. We have laws and the lick which limit that. So while my statement is silly it is the truth. Americans should have free will to do what they want as long as it coincides with our original laws.
I am not a republican nor "right wing" I am a libertarian and I believe that both parties are dead wrong. So stop labeling me as Rush.
I did not say people should support it. I just said they shouldn't demonize it. If you don't like it don't pay and let the system work itself out. Seems like you are stereotyping me as well.
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
Do you have evidence to support this common knowledge?
I know what socialism is at least in practice.
Socialism tries to clip both the bottom and the top of society off so that everyone is the same. This is done to create a utopian society but negates human nature. I believe it was Marx that first came up with the idea...or maybe he just refined it.
Socialism breeds mediocrity and downplays personal responsibility because the government will take care of it. The range between the rich and the poor would be much smaller thus everyone will be equally miserable.
To me there is not much difference between socialism and communism.
I was comparing people calling companies greedy to socialism not because they are inherently the same but because of the mindset socialism creates. The "give me now" mindset.
You have no clue, I'm glad you freely admit it.
So you are saying that is not socialism?
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
Exactly, just give it up, not the place nor time it doesn't impact the game or the MT store in any way, form or fashion.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.
Collectivism
The principles or system of ownership and control of the means of production and distribution by the people collectively, usually under the supervision of a government.
Next step is communism
So it seems I am not wrong.
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
I whole-heartedly agree. Corporate greed and irresponsible consuming have sucked the life and vitality from this country.
When you spend money as a responsible and informed consumer and refrain from supporting questionable business practices you are showing that company and, through extrapolation, other companies that we the consumer will not be sucked in by this kind of stuff.
The problem with the video game industry is that the majority of the consumers who support it are too young to know the value of a dollar and/or are just plain ignorant insofar as how their actions as consumers affect the industry as a whole.
The greed and exploitation in the video game industry is the microcosm of the greed and exploitation that has been going on for quite some time in this country.
Look at what corporate mentality and greed did to the music industry. It's happening to the video game industry, and it's embaressingly apparent in the MMORPG genre.
Look at all of the worthless cash-in attempts that have no soul, no depth, no consideration for the consumer's wants.
I would never turn my nose up at free stuff, but I also have no problem paying for the things that I want. I have no problem paying for a quality game that would bring hours, days, weeks, and months of enjoyment.
The problem is that when people like BioNut support lackluster games it then becomes ok for other companies to flush out garbage. Why should they rethink the grinds and timesinks when there are always more suckers lined up to pay for their subpar entertainment.
It's up to us the players to hold the companies responsible for making the games we play to a higher standard and therefore raise the bar to a new level of emmersion, enjoyment, and fun. As long as we keep buying crap they'll continue to make it.
If however, we stand united against subpar games and questionable business models, we can help chnge the state of the industry.
Of course not, now move along.
I whole-heartedly agree. Corporate greed and irresponsible consuming have sucked the life and vitality from this country.
When you spend money as a responsible and informed consumer and refrain from supporting questionable business practices you are showing that company and, through extrapolation, other companies that we the consumer will not be sucked in by this kind of stuff.
The problem with the video game industry is that the majority of the consumers who support it are too young to know the value of a dollar and/or are just plain ignorant insofar as how their actions as consumers affect the industry as a whole.
The greed and exploitation in the video game industry is the microcosm of the greed and exploitation that has been going on for quite some time in this country.
Look at what corporate mentality and greed did to the music industry. It's happening to the video game industry, and it's embaressingly apparent in the MMORPG genre.
Look at all of the worthless cash-in attempts that have no soul, no depth, no consideration for the consumer's wants.
I would never turn my nose up at free stuff, but I also have no problem paying for the things that I want. I have no problem paying for a quality game that would bring hours, days, weeks, and months of enjoyment.
The problem is that when people like BioNut support lackluster games it then becomes ok for other companies to flush out garbage. Why should they rethink the grinds and timesinks when there are always more suckers lined up to pay for their subpar entertainment.
It's up to us the players to hold the companies responsible for making the games we play to a higher standard and therefore raise the bar to a new level of emmersion, enjoyment, and fun. As long as we keep buying crap they'll continue to make it.
If however, we stand united against subpar games and questionable business models, we can help chnge the state of the industry.
I don't disagree with people spending money wisely but at the same time who elected you to say what is wise or not? If someone wants to support a game they love by using MTs then let them. If a lot of people support it then it will become mainstream. If nobody does it will fail.
Problem is a lot of people on these boards want to see it fail before they even know how it works. How do you know its shady? Greedy? If you see something you want and it will make you happy then it has worth to you. If the price is unreasonable then you might not buy it....wouldn't be worth it.
I bought a track IR the other day because it looked cool, not because I needed it. It has worth to me but other people would say it is a niche device and you shouldn't spend money on stuff like that.
Playing: Tera, BF3, ME3
Waiting on: Guild Wars 2
Indeed, companies rely on the fact most Americans are apathetic or just plain ignorant. This is nothing new and innovative it's them hammering together as many payment models as they can and hoping it will become an industry standard. It's obvious CO is a testbed for ST:O, if this even remotely works for CO they will expand upon it greatly in ST:O which many consider to be a huge IP.
Once they went open BETA and the forums started churning out massive amounts of posts, the thread a dev started asking how people felt about MTs had it's sticky status removed with zero explanation and no answers (after stating in the initial post that was the whole purpose of the thread). It was a few pages off the front before anyone noticed, it's clear they just want the whole ordeal to die with minimum fuss. As a matter of fact they started a new thread (a dev) asking what we'd like to see most in costume pieces. I wonder why they'd ask that...
I whole-heartedly agree. Corporate greed and irresponsible consuming have sucked the life and vitality from this country.
When you spend money as a responsible and informed consumer and refrain from supporting questionable business practices you are showing that company and, through extrapolation, other companies that we the consumer will not be sucked in by this kind of stuff.
The problem with the video game industry is that the majority of the consumers who support it are too young to know the value of a dollar and/or are just plain ignorant insofar as how their actions as consumers affect the industry as a whole.
The greed and exploitation in the video game industry is the microcosm of the greed and exploitation that has been going on for quite some time in this country.
Look at what corporate mentality and greed did to the music industry. It's happening to the video game industry, and it's embaressingly apparent in the MMORPG genre.
Look at all of the worthless cash-in attempts that have no soul, no depth, no consideration for the consumer's wants.
I would never turn my nose up at free stuff, but I also have no problem paying for the things that I want. I have no problem paying for a quality game that would bring hours, days, weeks, and months of enjoyment.
The problem is that when people like BioNut support lackluster games it then becomes ok for other companies to flush out garbage. Why should they rethink the grinds and timesinks when there are always more suckers lined up to pay for their subpar entertainment.
It's up to us the players to hold the companies responsible for making the games we play to a higher standard and therefore raise the bar to a new level of emmersion, enjoyment, and fun. As long as we keep buying crap they'll continue to make it.
If however, we stand united against subpar games and questionable business models, we can help chnge the state of the industry.
I don't disagree with people spending money wisely but at the same time who elected you to say what is wise or not? If someone wants to support a game they love by using MTs then let them. If a lot of people support it then it will become mainstream. If nobody does it will fail.
Problem is a lot of people on these boards want to see it fail before they even know how it works. How do you know its shady? Greedy? If you see something you want and it will make you happy then it has worth to you. If the price is unreasonable then you might not buy it....wouldn't be worth it.
I bought a track IR the other day because it looked cool, not because I needed it. It has worth to me but other people would say it is a niche device and you shouldn't spend money on stuff like that.
People with money have more than most in RL, should they have more than most in a GD game too! I don't know about anyone else , but I don't pay people so they create content for "other" people! If EVERYTHING in the store is available with a little effort in game ... then fine but I'm pretty sure only some of it is. Or down the line they start puttign w/e they want in it to make more money. What is to say tanking subs won't cause them to put other things on the MT store so they bilk more money out of the loyal customers who aren't leaving.
I don't like it at all, but of course I don't have to play and I won't. Why would anyone want this to become a standard form of payment model?
All in all, I think it is a reasonable review, but there are some points that seems to be missing and areas that I've had a different experience with:
My quick take on the game (mostly differences compared to other MMOs I've played):
Overall, I'm looking at keeping the game.
Out of interest; Bionut, your in game alias is not "Joseph Mcarthy" perchance?
I shall wait and see about these micro transactions. I'm not aware of them actually releasing information on specifics that can be brought, only loose collections items. To decide you're not going to buy the game based on early ideas of micro transactions is a little hasty, no? Some people might even believe that if you do take this approach... You weren't planning on buying this game in the first place! Having played a little in the closed beta (unfortunately the severely bugged patcher and account servers prevents me from playing a lot) I have had fun. I just wonder how long Cryptic will be able sustain this fun.
Just to stick my neck out there.. The whole MT system won't be that bad. They've already stated that any gameplay-changing items will be available to players - and from what I've seen costumes will be as well. It's not like CoH/V didn't have a similar system after all.
Furthermore, think the MT system has more to do with the Lifetime and 6-Month Subscribers rather than normal monthly subscribers. Think of it like this:
Lifetime Subscription Example
(Notice: The math isn't going to be 100% accurate given that 14 months at $15/Mo equates to $210, not $200. I'm also not taking into account the free month attained by simply buying the game. If you wish to nitpick, just read "5 Years" as "5 years and 1 Month".)
Buy the lifetime subscription right now for $200, in 14 months you'll be playing the game for free (When being compared to the $15/Mo subscription model). That is, free for as long as the game lasts. If it lasts 5 years? You will have only paid for 1 Year and 2 Months of time. That's roughly 47 free months and $700 that Cryptic would never get... $700 from one person. Now, what if 10,000 people grabbed the lifetime subscription? That's $7,000,000 Cyptic misses out on in the span of 5 years. Add/Subtract Zeros as you wish, any amount over $700,000 is a lot of lost money no matter how you look at it.
6-Month Subscription Example
Comparatively get the 6-Month subscription package for $60/6 Months (Or $10 a month). That's a good deal, and in time that's a lot of lost money for Cryptic. Of course it's not as bad as the losses from a lifetime subscriber, but losses are losses. Lets take the 5-year example from above and adapt it. $120 a year, $600 after 5 years. Paying $15 a month would be $180 a year, $900 after 5 years. Say 10,000 people chose that payment model - Cryptic loses out on roughly $3,000,000 in 5 years time.
For those who hate looking at numbers in a forum, the point is that the Micro-Transaction system isn't Cryptic being greedy, it's them trying to recoup losses from the aforementioned deals. The MT system is geared towards adding an additional reward to players who chose a long-term subscription model while still allowing players who wish to play month-by-month to drop a little extra money on the same items if they so chose. Could it imbalance the game? Maybe. I'm not a Cryptic Developer, I wouldn't know - I have faith, though, they're not going to allow such a system to ruin the game because Player A is a rich bastard while Player B is eating Ramen in a college dorm doing odd jobs just to pay for the game alone.
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As far as the game itself goes.. It's love it or hate it. Just like CoH/V the game will continue to expand and grow to be fairly massive (It already is rather Massive, and has great replay value). It fulfills the Superhero MMO Niche quite well given the vast customization for your characters. The progression in the game is excellently done and allows for a player to have a completely different experience on an alternate character.
Personally, I think it's an above-average MMO given it's genre and style. It's certainly geared towards a specific audience, but Champions Online still has enough features to be inviting to gamers who aren't huge fans of the Super Hero genre. It's not WoW, it's not Aion and I'll be surprised if it gains success even remotely close to either of those games. In it's own right, though, it is a great game and certainly worth a look. Are there inherent problems? Yes, plenty - not one of those problems is enough to make the game not enjoyable however. They're all small little issues Cryptic has been working hard to fix, and they are getting fixed - much faster than most MMOs manage to fix their problems.
Hellgate: London had a lifetime sub...
Hellgate: London sucked balls too.
LOTRO Has a lifetime sub...
The controls in the game are horrid... clunky and badly designed. I like how they give you a few different control sets, but regardless they are bad. Attacking enemies tends to be very slow and awkward. The character customization is fun, though it wont take long for a player to recognize many of the commonly used visuals such as large wings or claws. Quests so far have been boring, though they make up for that with an active world. Really annoying enemies tend to appear out of no where, again mixed with the combat system and targeting... it can be a pain in the butt.
I would have to say the quality of the game is average. It could have spent more time in production, could have been much better designed. Will make a fun console game, but a mediocre PC title.
Overall impression is that this game ranges between a 6.5-7.5/10 give or take. CoH/CoV definately had the controls down better, the design and appeal seemed better thought out and developed. I cant help but feel champions is a mimicry of better games, but is meant mainly to be an entry into the console mmorpg market...not necessarily a very good one, just an entry none the less.