Originally posted by Dafong WoW had a fully open Beta. AoC and WAR did not. Lets compare subscribers.....oh we see a pattern.
Logic is not one of your strong suits if you're trying to insinuate open beta was any significant part of WOW's success.
Originally posted by x_rast_x I can say with 100% certainty that an online game that has no at least semi-open beta is a flop in progress.
You're right, Team Fortress 2 was a complete flop. Nobody plays that game, right?
(on a side note, it's cool to see Subspace players around still. Played that and got my brother (a pez addiction) addicted to it, and I think he still plays today -- whatever the renamed version is, Continuum?)
In reply to topic Personally I'm fine with current beta practices. It's companies identifying a demand and exploiting it (note: this is exactly what they're doing when they make games.) As long as they get enough players to test what they intend to test in their beta, it's perfectly fine for them to limit access to that beta by whatever method they desire.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
My problem with "Open Beta" is really just the name.
"Beta" or "Beta Test" implies some kind of testing and / or feedback cycle?
In reality these periods are mostly 'Pre-Release Trial'
I guess what really annoys me is that there seems to be very little 'testing' going on in these "Open Beta"s.
And yes, Fanbois don't help either. Saying "STFU and go back to WoW" and "L2P" does not help anyone or the game.
To my mind, if people in an Open Beta aren't testing they should be kicked. You can argue that by playing they are testing? But unless there is quality control on the testing (even if it just insuring that players cover the less used content) then really you can't claim it's a real test IMHO.
The quality of recent games at release shows that something is wrong with the whole 'testing' process. "Open Beta"s are a part of that.
Just want to say that Open Beta is not synonymous with "Demo" or "Free Trial."
Alpha and Beta are testing phases of the software development cycle. If you're not trying to get into a Beta to test the software, then you have no right to complain. Also, testing the software does not mean you testing it to see if it runs on your machine, or you testing it to see if you like it or not.
It means testing it to see if everything runs the way the developers intended for it to run.
Playing | GW2 Wanting | Pantheon Watching | Crowfall Retired | WAR, Cabal, MO, CO, SHK, WoW, FFXIV: ARR
Obviously you are completely correct in what you said. Games like Warhammer and AoC which had pay to play Open Betas flopped.
While great games such as Fury and HGL did great with their open betas, anyone can play. Right?
This is one of the dumbest threads I've seen on these forums. This isn't even an opinion, but you trying to use fact to point to a game doing bad. Wow had what, 200,000 people around launch? And it was a terrible launch too. War had 1 million+ the first week or so? And that was with the Pay to play beta.
From now on, you can expect to pay to play in Open betas. I could see guild wars being one of the few not to do that, but that would be more like, if you own any of the original GWs, you get into the open beta, otherwise it's the same as others.
And look at mortal online. Pay the full amount to play in closed beta for a week. Wow.
Besides, paying to play in the open beta gives the company a chance to see how many people are ready and willing to pay to play the game.
Companies either charge you to "Open Beta" the product or make FilePlanet charge you to participate. Im only seeing Korean game companies practicing the old tradition of free open betas to the public.
Now Open Beta means early access, pre-order, character head start since there is no server wipe at release. This is a shameful action made by desperate companies.
Originally posted by Flex1 Now Open Beta means early access, pre-order, character head start since there is no server wipe at release. This is a shameful action made by desperate companies.
This is a theory, based on experience and observations, only:
In the 'old days' of online games, developers actually needed to get enough people into a beta to fully test a game and make sure it worked (with feedback systems, bug reports, etc). You had to apply for the beta with all your previous experience (remember those horrid things?). Then, the developer selected a group of people based on their experience in previous beta programs and demographics. They asked testers to fill out surveys and submit bug reports. And there were bug reports.
These days, AAA game companies are huge, corporate, marketing machines. They don't need much word of mouth to get the word out, and some can even afford to have alpha testers on staff. Heck, I bet companies like Blizzard and NCSoft have enough -paid employees- to initially bug test their games.
So, what they did with betas is made them a ploy to get more subscriptions (because that is really what makes or breaks a MMO). You no longer have to fill out those irritating surveys and bug reports if you don't want to, or send in an application with your past experience. That's not why they offer a "beta" anymore. You're not really testing a game in production, you're playing the finished product, minus some minor aesthetic tweaks and infrastructure changes.
I don't think devs do much testing anymore except capacity stress-testing during AAA betas. A clever, but underhanded strategy by their marketing departments.
Now Open Beta means early access, pre-order, character head start since there is no server wipe at release. This is a shameful action made by desperate companies.
This is a theory, based on experience and observations, only:
In the 'old days' of online games, developers actually needed to get enough people into a beta to fully test a game and make sure it worked (with feedback systems, bug reports, etc). You had to apply for the beta with all your previous experience (remember those horrid things?). Then, the developer selected a group of people based on their experience in previous beta programs and demographics. They asked testers to fill out surveys and submit bug reports. And there were bug reports.
These days, AAA game companies are huge, corporate, marketing machines. They don't need much word of mouth to get the word out, and some can even afford to have alpha testers on staff. Heck, I bet companies like Blizzard and NCSoft have enough -paid employees- to initially bug test their games.
So, what they did with betas is made them a ploy to get more subscriptions (because that is really what makes or breaks a MMO). You no longer have to fill out those irritating surveys and bug reports if you don't want to, or send in an application with your past experience. That's not why they offer a "beta" anymore. You're not really testing a game in production, you're playing the finished product, minus some minor aesthetic tweaks and infrastructure changes.
I don't think devs do much testing anymore except capacity stress-testing during AAA betas. A clever, but underhanded strategy by their marketing departments.
So very true...
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Personally, I think pre-order is the best way to go if you really want to try a beta. $5 down at places like GameStop and you're good to go. You have nothing to lose - if you love the game, you're going to spend the $5 anyway. If you hate it, just transfer the $5 to another game. I've only had one situation where the clerk gave me grief about trying to transfer my pre-order money, but I asked for the manager and complained a little.
Comments
Logic is not one of your strong suits if you're trying to insinuate open beta was any significant part of WOW's success.
You're right, Team Fortress 2 was a complete flop. Nobody plays that game, right?
(on a side note, it's cool to see Subspace players around still. Played that and got my brother (a pez addiction) addicted to it, and I think he still plays today -- whatever the renamed version is, Continuum?)
In reply to topic
Personally I'm fine with current beta practices. It's companies identifying a demand and exploiting it (note: this is exactly what they're doing when they make games.) As long as they get enough players to test what they intend to test in their beta, it's perfectly fine for them to limit access to that beta by whatever method they desire.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
My problem with "Open Beta" is really just the name.
"Beta" or "Beta Test" implies some kind of testing and / or feedback cycle?
In reality these periods are mostly 'Pre-Release Trial'
I guess what really annoys me is that there seems to be very little 'testing' going on in these "Open Beta"s.
And yes, Fanbois don't help either. Saying "STFU and go back to WoW" and "L2P" does not help anyone or the game.
To my mind, if people in an Open Beta aren't testing they should be kicked. You can argue that by playing they are testing? But unless there is quality control on the testing (even if it just insuring that players cover the less used content) then really you can't claim it's a real test IMHO.
The quality of recent games at release shows that something is wrong with the whole 'testing' process. "Open Beta"s are a part of that.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Just want to say that Open Beta is not synonymous with "Demo" or "Free Trial."
Alpha and Beta are testing phases of the software development cycle. If you're not trying to get into a Beta to test the software, then you have no right to complain. Also, testing the software does not mean you testing it to see if it runs on your machine, or you testing it to see if you like it or not.
It means testing it to see if everything runs the way the developers intended for it to run.
Playing | GW2
Wanting | Pantheon
Watching | Crowfall
Retired | WAR, Cabal, MO, CO, SHK, WoW, FFXIV: ARR
Obviously you are completely correct in what you said. Games like Warhammer and AoC which had pay to play Open Betas flopped.
While great games such as Fury and HGL did great with their open betas, anyone can play. Right?
This is one of the dumbest threads I've seen on these forums. This isn't even an opinion, but you trying to use fact to point to a game doing bad. Wow had what, 200,000 people around launch? And it was a terrible launch too. War had 1 million+ the first week or so? And that was with the Pay to play beta.
From now on, you can expect to pay to play in Open betas. I could see guild wars being one of the few not to do that, but that would be more like, if you own any of the original GWs, you get into the open beta, otherwise it's the same as others.
And look at mortal online. Pay the full amount to play in closed beta for a week. Wow.
Besides, paying to play in the open beta gives the company a chance to see how many people are ready and willing to pay to play the game.
This whole topic is how I see this practice.
Companies either charge you to "Open Beta" the product or make FilePlanet charge you to participate. Im only seeing Korean game companies practicing the old tradition of free open betas to the public.
Now Open Beta means early access, pre-order, character head start since there is no server wipe at release. This is a shameful action made by desperate companies.
This is a theory, based on experience and observations, only:
In the 'old days' of online games, developers actually needed to get enough people into a beta to fully test a game and make sure it worked (with feedback systems, bug reports, etc). You had to apply for the beta with all your previous experience (remember those horrid things?). Then, the developer selected a group of people based on their experience in previous beta programs and demographics. They asked testers to fill out surveys and submit bug reports. And there were bug reports.
These days, AAA game companies are huge, corporate, marketing machines. They don't need much word of mouth to get the word out, and some can even afford to have alpha testers on staff. Heck, I bet companies like Blizzard and NCSoft have enough -paid employees- to initially bug test their games.
So, what they did with betas is made them a ploy to get more subscriptions (because that is really what makes or breaks a MMO). You no longer have to fill out those irritating surveys and bug reports if you don't want to, or send in an application with your past experience. That's not why they offer a "beta" anymore. You're not really testing a game in production, you're playing the finished product, minus some minor aesthetic tweaks and infrastructure changes.
I don't think devs do much testing anymore except capacity stress-testing during AAA betas. A clever, but underhanded strategy by their marketing departments.
This is a theory, based on experience and observations, only:
In the 'old days' of online games, developers actually needed to get enough people into a beta to fully test a game and make sure it worked (with feedback systems, bug reports, etc). You had to apply for the beta with all your previous experience (remember those horrid things?). Then, the developer selected a group of people based on their experience in previous beta programs and demographics. They asked testers to fill out surveys and submit bug reports. And there were bug reports.
These days, AAA game companies are huge, corporate, marketing machines. They don't need much word of mouth to get the word out, and some can even afford to have alpha testers on staff. Heck, I bet companies like Blizzard and NCSoft have enough -paid employees- to initially bug test their games.
So, what they did with betas is made them a ploy to get more subscriptions (because that is really what makes or breaks a MMO). You no longer have to fill out those irritating surveys and bug reports if you don't want to, or send in an application with your past experience. That's not why they offer a "beta" anymore. You're not really testing a game in production, you're playing the finished product, minus some minor aesthetic tweaks and infrastructure changes.
I don't think devs do much testing anymore except capacity stress-testing during AAA betas. A clever, but underhanded strategy by their marketing departments.
So very true...
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Personally, I think pre-order is the best way to go if you really want to try a beta. $5 down at places like GameStop and you're good to go. You have nothing to lose - if you love the game, you're going to spend the $5 anyway. If you hate it, just transfer the $5 to another game. I've only had one situation where the clerk gave me grief about trying to transfer my pre-order money, but I asked for the manager and complained a little.
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