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Biggest expansion in the history of Mmorpg's?
Shadowhand
Member Posts: 100
And risky I think, with as big of a money maker as WoW is this is far from a "safe" expansion, some people grow fond of certain zones the've spent time in, the change could be great or terrible. I've never been a huge WoW fan, I just resubbed last week and found out about the expansion a few days ago from a leak online. I have to say I'm impressed ( WoW haters don't kill me ) But this expansion is essentially WoW2.0 , and offhand I cannot think of a bigger expansion to an mmorpg? Either way I'm "Gasp " hyped 
Can anyone think of a larger "expansion" then Cataclysm? Of course meaning IF they actually add everything.
S H A D O W H A N D
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others.
Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online
Comments
IMO this expansion is going to be huge.
Seems like a very safe, no-risk type of expansion to me. I'm going to have to make a Worgen when it comes out. Overall I expect zone changes to be a considerable improvement both in looks as well as questing. Also they're not adding any new classes which would have caused additional balancing head-aches.
As long as Tanaris is safe...I'll be fine with this expansion. I know in the vid preview they show Shimming Flats becoming a lush jungle, but I hope that doesn't mean Tanaris will become a jungle as well.
Wow really?
No risk/very safe? What would you have considered a risky step for a new WoW expansion thats within the technological limits of current mmo's? <-----Directed at Axxar btw 
S H A D O W H A N D
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others.
Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online
Something that shakes up the game I suppose, rather than simply improving and adding to what is. Re-using existing areas is also much quicker and cheaper than having to create new zones for all the new content. Blizzard are being very practical here. I don't think you have to worry about this expansion not being well-received. Seems Blizzard has everything well under control from where I'm sitting.
Well I think the game is being fairly shaken up as is by improving/adding on to what it already is ( expansion ), and they are adding new zones, I Guess we'll never change each other's mind here
But considering mmorpg expansions of late and the past I don't see how this is being practical/safe by any means. But I do agree it's probably going to be well recieved 
S H A D O W H A N D
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others.
Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online
You seem surprisingly convinced that it'll be well-received, considering how big a risk you feel Blizzard is taking.
Read my first post again, I think Blizzard chose a risky course of altering the entire game ( as I said especially on a money maker such as WoW ) as people get attached to certain zones ect ect, and it seemed like a risky path rather than just adding a new zone ect thats common with mmorpgs, It just happens the outcome of choice appears to be a good one and I think it will be well recieved. I don't think its strange that I find a risky choice also being a well recieved one.
S H A D O W H A N D
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others.
Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online
Eh, if you like WoW, it will be well-received. Considering they made the game easy to work with, they can do something as big as this and have no problem. It's what separates Blizzard as a company from the others. It's not like it's even original, when you look at Anet's story of the dragons in GW2 over a year ago. "A dragon legend rises from the oceans.." Where did we hear that before? cough-legendoforr-cough. Thing is, they are smart. It's plenty enough till they get started on the real game, Blizzard's next big mmo.
But easy, fanbois, on the "revolutionary" claims. This was NOT hard for them to do. all they are doing is refreshing the war between the horde and the alliance, which has been going for, what, 5 years, now? It isn't Rocket science to re-skin Taurens and gnomes into Wolf-whatevers and Goblins. It'll be good, it'll make money, but please, enough with declarations of WoW dominance into the next century. Really.
Well, it's certainly big in terms of content that had to be created. Yes, it's using old locations, but they're old locations in name only. the two original continents basically had to be rebuilt to accomadate both flying mounts and the drastic landscape changes. People saying they're re-using old content are pretty narrowminded to what is actually going on here.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Still reading and still being surprised.
Wow 2.0 and indeed gasp is the word that comes to mind.
These next 2 days (and the following 2 years) must be a nightmare for WOW haters.
What do you mean? This is GREAT news!
Now maybe people will actually play the game they love so much and LEAVE THE REST ALONE.
Champions does not need to be "WoW in Spandex" nor does STO need to be "Wow in Space".
For the record, I do not hate Wow. I do however hate all the people that play WoW and try to turn every other game into it.
Yeah what if a lot of players don't like the fact that a bunch of stuff is changing? What would blizz do if half their subs left because they didn't like what they done to the game? Do you think blizz would keep it or change it back and scrap some of the expansion?
Dude, they redesigned the complete world of old Azeroth, inclusive dungeons, raid content, extra Battlegrounds andPvP zones
And first read about the changes before posting please.
I know it takes about an hour to read upon what makes this ... WOW 2 actually.
But do that first and then come back.
Is it hard to play WoW with those pom-poms on your hands?
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
Yeah I agree here, Blizz has a ton of money other companies do not have and those companies can not afford to pump out expansions with the amount of content and as quickly due to their company being smaller in size and with financial limitations. I'm sure it's not hard for blizz to create features for the expansion because of their financial backup. But I'm not looking at how hard a company worked for their expansion or how it compares to another companies expansion taking financial limits into concern and giving them a handicap to judge them both by, I'm looking at the end result, the expansion itself. People are quick to shoot it down, but can anyone name an expansion of an mmorpg that has surpassed what they claim to be attempting? Thats one of the advantages of playing an mmo developed by a company with extreme financial backing.
For the record I hated WoW at launch, considering myself a hardcore PVPer I've played every PVP game on the marked, most recently DF, But I'm not blinded by WoW hate either, I'm just giving credit where I think credit is due. I hear people shooting down the new races, claiming its a tauren with a different skin, I suppose its different when other companies add a new race to their mmo?
S H A D O W H A N D
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others.
Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online
Well, it's certainly big in terms of content that had to be created. Yes, it's using old locations, but they're old locations in name only. the two original continents basically had to be rebuilt to accomadate both flying mounts and the drastic landscape changes. People saying they're re-using old content are pretty narrowminded to what is actually going on here.
honestly, its not that big of a deal what they're doing here, don't fool yourself into thinking its more then what it is
the "New Frontiers" free expansion in DAOC was far larger and more difficult then what blizzard is doing with this expansion, you are all mindless drones controlled by strings thanks to blizzard/wow ... and i feel bad for you all
yet, you'll defend this game's honor like its your mother/sister/wife/girlfriend/imaginary friend being harassed in the worst ways, its funny
Relax, cupcake. What I like or dislike will not affect you one bit, I assure you.
Plus, unlike some here apparently, I'm physically able to keep an open mind without it exploding.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Well, it's certainly big in terms of content that had to be created. Yes, it's using old locations, but they're old locations in name only. the two original continents basically had to be rebuilt to accomadate both flying mounts and the drastic landscape changes. People saying they're re-using old content are pretty narrowminded to what is actually going on here.
honestly, its not that big of a deal what they're doing here, don't fool yourself into thinking its more then what it is
the "New Frontiers" free expansion in DAOC was far larger and more difficult then what blizzard is doing with this expansion, you are all mindless drones controlled by strings thanks to blizzard/wow ... and i feel bad for you all
yet, you'll defend this game's honor like its your mother/sister/wife/girlfriend/imaginary friend being harassed in the worst ways, its funny
Relax, cupcake. What I like or dislike will not affect you one bit, I assure you.
Plus, unlike some here apparently, I'm physically able to keep an open mind without it exploding.
Yeah I get the feeling no matter what Blizzard will add in this expansion or future expansion, the haters and closed minded will hate it simply because it's WoW
S H A D O W H A N D
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others.
Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online
Well, it's certainly big in terms of content that had to be created. Yes, it's using old locations, but they're old locations in name only. the two original continents basically had to be rebuilt to accomadate both flying mounts and the drastic landscape changes. People saying they're re-using old content are pretty narrowminded to what is actually going on here.
honestly, its not that big of a deal what they're doing here, don't fool yourself into thinking its more then what it is
the "New Frontiers" free expansion in DAOC was far larger and more difficult then what blizzard is doing with this expansion, you are all mindless drones controlled by strings thanks to blizzard/wow ... and i feel bad for you all
yet, you'll defend this game's honor like its your mother/sister/wife/girlfriend/imaginary friend being harassed in the worst ways, its funny
Relax, cupcake. What I like or dislike will not affect you one bit, I assure you.
Plus, unlike some here apparently, I'm physically able to keep an open mind without it exploding.
listen princess, i know it won't.. i could give a care less about the game, i'm simply being a troll , though what i say holds truth to 95% of WoW players
and the expansion isn't that big, you guys are making it out to be alot more then what it actually is
You binary thinkers are a funny lot. It's either savage hatred or rabid fanboyism with you. The very notion that someone can like some parts, dislike others, and still manage to squeeze out some enjoyment, or in this case, anticipation, causes your brain to fry. You're intellectually incapable of dealing with that, so you have to assign a blanket title to the entire thing in order for you to be able to ridicule it.
Keep it up! This amuses me.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
I'm neither a fanboy nor a hater. Played WoW for many years, currently I don't, simply because there was nothing that would really motivate me.
I got mixed feelings about the expansion.
Positive ones would be:
- nice, a goblin hunter sounds like a fun char to play the game again
- having changed most of the old zones will make twinking more fun, and I love twinking
- wonder what will happen with the "secret" places, like the tauren village south of tanaris or the dancing village between moonglade and darkshore. Will they be removed with the revamp? Or will they be still there, but since they're easily accessible then, will lose anything special that was there?
- with some luck, goblins will be the new underdogs of the horde. which would be even more reason to play them
Negative ones would be:
- revamping old stuff is easier than creating new stuff. Sure, there are a few new zones, but we'll see how large they are
- the draenei and blood elves were mostly new to the game. Sure, a few ones stood around here or there, but they never played a large role. But goblins and worgens? There are hundreds of them out there already.
- Blizzard is great in hyping stuff, let's see how much we really get
But the most prominent thought in my mind about this subject is:
"It'll still be a looooooooong time until the expansion will be available. Probably about a year or so. So I'll just read through the rumors and official notes, but keep love and hate away until the release date is really close. Who knows what will change until then? Which MMORPGs will rise and fall? Which new great games (even non-MMORPG ones like Torchlight or Supreme Commander 2) will be released and take up my time?
Edit: I just noticed this is my second post here since half a decade. XD If I keep this speed up, see you in 2014 :P
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Everyone hates the top dog
its not a new thing.
Why do u think the Yankees are called "The Evil Empire" (granted thats kinda old and they are not as good as they used to be)
Anyways as for the the expansion I think they did a great job with deciding to rework the old world instead of adding new areas. The old world was already a dead zone so why not just reuse it to mold it to something that people will revisit and have fun once again. An evolving World is always more fun then a stationary one.
As far as the dificulty the designers may or may have not faced... once u got the graphics engine and all your designers pros at using it it is pretty simple to add new terain/or characters. It does not matter if it is completly new or change the old ones.
Good move on Blizzards side keeping WoW interesting, just when you think you have a wow killer they take that WoW and change it just enough so it evades harm
.
I doubt well see a game that will hold more subsciptions then WoW at least untill their new MMO comes out and they decide to let WoW die.
wow is wow, landscape doesn't change that i think the game isn't fun, to each is own on that
its a marketing thing, games getting desolate in the lower level areas
you think the designers said, lets re-do the entire original zones from scratch? hell no, they modified content that was already there, ripped it up, filled in the gaps, re-textured shit.. i promise you that its not 100% new coding and modeling its probably more like 10%
the genius behind it all is the fact that they said
lets allow new race/class combinations, people will re-roll and that in turn will help new players have groups and meet people
kudos to them, i could care less if wow lasts another 20 years, as far as a marketing scheme this is GIGANTIC, as far as actual work, its not so big, i'm sorry if it upsets you, but its the honest truth
Just one example:
To make a zone 3D fly-able means it takes around 3 times more resources to accomplish this. Instead of "fake" 3D/2D borders to create mountains that can't be surpassed, you DO need to redo the original code from scratch.
BTW, that's one of the reasons ... AoC, WAR, LotrO don't have ANY free flying in their lands AND why Aion only has limited zones where you can stretch the wings. Underwater worlds is just an extra that is skipped by those MMO's (just to save money ... and development time...)
Earlier discussions with Blizzard developpers showed that creating FULL 3D passable landscapes takes indeed 3 times more money to create.
So if that's not "big" to you, no problem, it shows you don't have a clue of world designs and just how costly it is to make it FULL 3D without loading screens or the dreadful "zoning".
negative lol
and daoc had underwater worlds in 2003, with a much smaller dev team then the games you listed... jus saying , free flying doesn't fit into most of the lore of the games you speak of if any at all (i'm no expert, i may be wrong on 1 of them) and as far as aion, i think ncsoft is just a shitty company that put in a feature here and there to limit their work, and make the most possible profit with the time involved
regardless neither of us will get any push on each others opinions, so it is what it is
Being an avid DAoC player and having played since release I can comment on this, you seem to have confirmed what he was saying, as DAoC did have a waterworld in 2003 yes, but trials of atlantis added a completley new continent in which this "water world" was ( and was made from scratch ). Remind you, although swimming was allowed in this new zone, in the classic DAoC water was still NOT able to support underwater swimming.
S H A D O W H A N D
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others.
Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online
I'm quite stoked for the expansion, as it's addressing a number of the concerns I've had with WoW over the past few months. The main concern was that of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms effectively feeling dead and rather useless. The two continents simply lost the charm and appeal they used to have.
It's great Blizzard aren't creating yet another continent for high level players to further spread out players in the game. I look forward to seeing high and low level characters alike running around, playing both new and old content that was greatly designed and is currently going to such waste.
You MEAN,technological limits of the Warcraft engine ,don't you?That engine is so far behind the rest of the gaming world it is not funny.Square Enix has spent their money over the last several years upping their tech of their engine,while Blizzard continues to show NO effort in raising their standards or give anything back to their fanbase.So now even the ancient FFXI engine is going to leave the warcraft engine as maybe the cheapest product out there amongst legit games.
You know of course ,reading into their OWN PR marketing hype about the expansion is "GOING to ROCK WOW" is foolish.Do you expect them to say anything else?
They are basically doing something ,VERY similar as to what FFXI did in what i called one their laziest expansions ever.They are just taking already in place maps,zones and just going to rework them.This takes VERY little effort,and NO you will not be getting any new technical advancements in gaming,Warcraft is ancient,the engine is ancient and frankly Blizzard has no ability to CREATE NEW ideas.Their lack of creativity and their ALWAYS cheap approach,is why this design works for Blizzard,but not for the fans.However i think it has been VERY obvious that WOW fans have become bored[they frequent all other games lately],so Blizzard could feed them pretty much anything and they will be all over it.
I am MOST interested to hear ,what the fans who are all excited,actually think this is going to deliver for "new" OR "creative"?Other than just buying into Blizzard's usual PR hype?2 new races?yep FFXI did the same thing in the EXACT same type of expansion,i really do not see the same hype ,so many others are gaining from this.Geesh if i wasn't sold into Blizzard copying SOE,i would swear this idea stems from FFXI's expansion of a couple years ago,that would be just about the right amount of time to do it as well...hmmm.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
wow is wow, landscape doesn't change that i think the game isn't fun, to each is own on that
its a marketing thing, games getting desolate in the lower level areas
you think the designers said, lets re-do the entire original zones from scratch? hell no, they modified content that was already there, ripped it up, filled in the gaps, re-textured shit.. i promise you that its not 100% new coding and modeling its probably more like 10%
the genius behind it all is the fact that they said
lets allow new race/class combinations, people will re-roll and that in turn will help new players have groups and meet people
kudos to them, i could care less if wow lasts another 20 years, as far as a marketing scheme this is GIGANTIC, as far as actual work, its not so big, i'm sorry if it upsets you, but its the honest truth
Just one example:
To make a zone 3D fly-able means it takes around 3 times more resources to accomplish this. Instead of "fake" 3D/2D borders to create mountains that can't be surpassed, you DO need to redo the original code from scratch.
BTW, that's one of the reasons ... AoC, WAR, LotrO don't have ANY free flying in their lands AND why Aion only has limited zones where you can stretch the wings. Underwater worlds is just an extra that is skipped by those MMO's (just to save money ... and development time...)
Earlier discussions with Blizzard developpers showed that creating FULL 3D passable landscapes takes indeed 3 times more money to create.
So if that's not "big" to you, no problem, it shows you don't have a clue of world designs and just how costly it is to make it FULL 3D without loading screens or the dreadful "zoning".
negative lol
and daoc had underwater worlds in 2003, with a much smaller dev team then the games you listed... jus saying , free flying doesn't fit into most of the lore of the games you speak of if any at all (i'm no expert, i may be wrong on 1 of them) and as far as aion, i think ncsoft is just a shitty company that put in a feature here and there to limit their work, and make the most possible profit with the time involved
regardless neither of us will get any push on each others opinions, so it is what it is
Being an avid DAoC player and having played since release I can comment on this, you seem to have confirmed what he was saying, as DAoC did have a waterworld in 2003 yes, but trials of atlantis added a completley new continent in which this "water world" was ( and was made from scratch ). Remind you, although swimming was allowed in this new zone, in the classic DAoC water was still NOT able to support underwater swimming.
you don't say? and then they updated all the other water in the game with the same thing, no big deal... new frontiers was a bigger expansion then this, shit TOA was huge and way more work then this expansion
Yeah :P And I know they fixed the water =D I was just using that release point to prove Zorn's point.And no NF/ToA were not in the same scope as this, ToA was considered a let down by the players in terms of content ect, many consider this the downfall of DAoC. ToA was a big expansion yes,Before release it was hyped a lot yes, but no where near the size/magnitude of Catacylsm, I don't even have to mention NF, the closest expansion DAoC had that had similarities would have to be Catacombs I would think. ToA just added ML/arti raids and an underwater Continent, and took the games PVP to hell. Who knows Catacylsm might be in the same boat as ToA and bring WoW to its knees, I'm just saying the expansions are not comparable :P
S H A D O W H A N D
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others.
Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online
You MEAN,technological limits of the Warcraft engine ,don't you?That engine is so far behind the rest of the gaming world it is not funny.Square Enix has spent their money over the last several years upping their tech of their engine,while Blizzard continues to show NO effort in raising their standards or give anything back to their fanbase.So now even the ancient FFXI engine is going to leave the warcraft engine as maybe the cheapest product out there amongst legit games.
You know of course ,reading into their OWN PR marketing hype about the expansion is "GOING to ROCK WOW" is foolish.Do you expect them to say anything else?
They are basically doing something ,VERY similar as to what FFXI did in what i called one their laziest expansions ever.They are just taking already in place maps,zones and just going to rework them.This takes VERY little effort,and NO you will not be getting any new technical advancements in gaming,Warcraft is ancient,the engine is ancient and frankly Blizzard has no ability to CREATE NEW ideas.Their lack of creativity and their ALWAYS cheap approach,is why this design works for Blizzard,but not for the fans.However i think it has been VERY obvious that WOW fans have become bored[they frequent all other games lately],so Blizzard could feed them pretty much anything and they will be all over it.
I am MOST interested to hear ,what the fans who are all excited,actually think this is going to deliver for "new" OR "creative"?Other than just buying into Blizzard's usual PR hype?2 new races?yep FFXI did the same thing in the EXACT same type of expansion,i really do not see the same hype ,so many others are gaining from this.Geesh if i wasn't sold into Blizzard copying SOE,i would swear this idea stems from FFXI's expansion of a couple years ago,that would be just about the right amount of time to do it as well...hmmm.
No, I meant the technological limits of "current" mmorpg's I was just saying that so he wouldn't give me an unrealistic idea for an mmorpg expansion.
S H A D O W H A N D
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Played - All mainstream MMORPGS/Many others.
Favorites- Dark Age of Camelot/mordred,Shadowbane , Old school Ultima Online
I think you are over simplifying it.For one i don't hate the Yankees,i hate the way they are allowed to outspend everyone else,the whole MLB has become a money war,rather than any legit sport.The concept of winning by outspending is what i don't like about MLB,not the yankees,as they are not alone,Boston,Anaheim a few teams far outspend the rest of the league.
As for this expansion,it is actually a VERY weak concept,one that is borderline an exact ripoff idea from what FFXI did in their expansion a couple years ago.Guess what Blizzard is known for copying and the time line of about 2 years ,seems perfect for them to pull off this expansion.
The only difference between the two is that Square sent their game into the past ,to a time of STRIFE,Blizzard is doing the EXACT same thing only into the future.Really other than the timeline,the expansions are identical.This type of exapnsion takes VERY little effort to pull off.I actually criticized Square for this same type of expansion,it is a very lazy and cheap approach.Guess what Square also introduced two new classes,go figure how much this resembles the same approach and design for an expansion.
I am sorry but the hype behind this expansion far outweighs it's actual concept and design.I can also see the design approach,as it would take a MUCH smaller team than the normal 50-100,as they have alotted staff into SC2 and their new MMO.This type of expansion would take a team of about 20,create some new hype,try to keep the money roilling in,by once again spending VERY little effort,nice ceo move but not one i agree is good for the game or the fans.
There wil lbe nothing new for technical advancements,the warcraft engine is ancient.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.