Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Blizzard. Before and After WoW.

2»

Comments

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    I was always a huge fan of Blizzard. Loved all of the Warcrafts. Loved both Diablos. Loved WoW, although I don't play it anymore. Loved Lost Vikings.

    In my opinion they are a solid company that release very entertaining games. While their games may not be known as those that revolutionize the genre, Blizzard somehow finds a way to still add a "wow" factor to them. Their games also have a lasting appeal that keeps people playing their games for decades.

    image

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Vicatin


    A+ company.
     
    They gave MMO's so much exposure. They put MMO games 5+ years ahead of their time.

     

    Huh? They just took a 5 year old game and polished it up a little (EQ). They did not evolved MMOs. They did get a lot of players which is impressive in itself but it was EQ that evolved the genre, Wow just continued down the same lane.

    I think less of Blizzard now then 6 years ago, mostly because they have lost most of their best people, like Jeff Strain.

    Wow isn't a bad game but it is not something that works for me.

     

    Wow may not have been a pure innovation for the mmo market, but it certainly is an evolution of the the games prior to its release.  Saying it polished everquest a little is a huge downplay to what warcraft did. 

     

    Sure wow was built on the concepts of everquest, I would never argue with that.  Yet at the same time it is drastically different in so many aspects it would be hard to count them all.  Wow is an evolution of everquest in many regards. 

     

    Personal preferences don't really play a role in the hows and whats of its creation. 

     

     

    Until blizzard delivers a real stinker, it is hard to expect anything but a solid game from them.  Plenty of people have come and gone over the years, but their track record is pretty solid. 

     

  • AxehiltAxehilt Member RarePosts: 10,504
    Originally posted by Chieftan

    Originally posted by PapaB34R



    Blizzard is heading from a niche company producing outstanding games towards a more mainstream and less unique way. Quantity wins over quality in their eyes and to me, first having the huge letdown warcraft 3 was, without blood, gore, with disney like half animals, half man kinda creatures... then having a MMO based on something out of a disney movie published, its embaracing to say the least.

     Are you on crack?  The first two Warcraft games look like saturday morning cartoons...



     

    Saturday morning cartoons with decaying, bloodied skeletal remains! 

    (No, seriously. Youtube up "warcraft orcs and humans" and "warcraft 2".  The first two games were a lot more violent.)

    FWIW, War3 is one of two Blizzard games I didn't think were flawlessly designed (the other being Diablo 1, due to multiplayer technical issues (ie cheating)).  You went from Starcraft, which had a great balance between econ/military/tech and micro/macro, to an RTS that was nearly all-Military, all-Micro.  The depth that made Starcraft great, just never quite made it into War3.

    Although it's valid to question someone as "on crack?" if they say Blizzard makes quantity over quality.  Quality games is why they're so successful they're hated.

    "What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver

  • BarCrowBarCrow Member UncommonPosts: 2,195
    Originally posted by PapaB34R


    Well Blizzard doesnt exist anymore.. or well it does but it has merged with Activision I believe. As for Blizzard as a company well even with WoW you gotta have respect for what theyve produced, from fantasy diablo to sci fi Starcraft and of course the jewl Warcraft itself.
    With that said Blizzard have lost of its orginal crew from the glorious days of warcraft 2 and diablo. The quality is still there but they have clearly changed the direction of what their games astrive towards. From long strategies and build ups to a more action paced experience. The transformation from D1 to D2 clearly shows this as WC2 to WC3.
    Back to topic, WoW was in the beggining intended to be like Warcraft 3 lore-wise, dark, mystic and headed down some form of storyline. This was however scrapped, a storyline seemed unfitting and like the transformation between D1 and D2 they wanted to lower the age req to get more players.
    Blizzard is heading from a niche company producing outstanding games towards a more mainstream and less unique way. Quantity wins over quality in their eyes and to me, first having the huge letdown warcraft 3 was, without blood, gore, with disney like half animals, half man kinda creatures... then having a MMO based on something out of a disney movie published, its embaracing to say the least.
    You may love or hate WoW but you cant deny its ugly and in a great many of ways childish. I know a lot of mature people play WoW but they dont do it for the lore or for the graphics that is for sure.
    Coming from Blizzard WoW was the final straw, it has great game mechanics but its just not meant for adults, its meant for everybody which in turn means they have to make it kiddy proof, we wouldnt want to have any 11 years olds having any nightmares would we!? But then again why would you want to play with an 11 year old?

               It's already been determined that the average mmo/wow player is in their 30's. I'm not going to link anything to support this because I've done so about 10 times in other posts. The percent of  pre- teens playing is really not too high.....and you ask why anyone would want to play with an 11 year old?...because he's my son....that's why. People do find others to spend their life with and even have children from time to time.

  • logangregorlogangregor Member Posts: 1,524


    Originally posted by chiffington
    Originally posted by Cromica
     
    So you are upset because blizzard and microsoft make money by only doing the minimum? Sorry to tell you this but the entire business world is about this, do only what you have to do to get money you are looking for.

     
    I'm not upset in the slightest.  Don't put words in my 'mouth'; and your patronising MMO-forum tone is not welcome either.  Believe it or not, some of us hope for a brighter world where people do the best they can rather than sell-off the shoddiest product at the cheapest price.  That is how some companies have become successful - so your know-it-all assertion that the 'entire business world' is your way of thinking is distinctly wrong.  The bad ones just made it through sheer marketing and the willingness of people to be led.
    I just find it regretful that so many people out there in the world buy cr*p when it's pushed out there simply because they're so desperately bored with their lives that they'll buy at least one option from a selection of all-bad options.



    /cheer

    image

  • ChieftanChieftan Member UncommonPosts: 1,188
    Originally posted by logangregor


     

    Originally posted by chiffington


    Originally posted by Cromica

     

    So you are upset because blizzard and microsoft make money by only doing the minimum? Sorry to tell you this but the entire business world is about this, do only what you have to do to get money you are looking for.


     

     

    I'm not upset in the slightest.  Don't put words in my 'mouth'; and your patronising MMO-forum tone is not welcome either.  Believe it or not, some of us hope for a brighter world where people do the best they can rather than sell-off the shoddiest product at the cheapest price.  That is how some companies have become successful - so your know-it-all assertion that the 'entire business world' is your way of thinking is distinctly wrong.  The bad ones just made it through sheer marketing and the willingness of people to be led.

    I just find it regretful that so many people out there in the world buy cr*p when it's pushed out there simply because they're so desperately bored with their lives that they'll buy at least one option from a selection of all-bad options.


     



    /cheer

     

    What's regretful is that in the 4 years since WoW launched all the geeks and SOE rejects combined haven't come up with something better.

    My youtube MMO gaming channel



  • logangregorlogangregor Member Posts: 1,524


    Originally posted by Chieftan
    Originally posted by logangregor  

    Originally posted by chiffington

    Originally posted by Cromica
     
    So you are upset because blizzard and microsoft make money by only doing the minimum? Sorry to tell you this but the entire business world is about this, do only what you have to do to get money you are looking for.
     
     
    I'm not upset in the slightest.  Don't put words in my 'mouth'; and your patronising MMO-forum tone is not welcome either.  Believe it or not, some of us hope for a brighter world where people do the best they can rather than sell-off the shoddiest product at the cheapest price.  That is how some companies have become successful - so your know-it-all assertion that the 'entire business world' is your way of thinking is distinctly wrong.  The bad ones just made it through sheer marketing and the willingness of people to be led.
    I just find it regretful that so many people out there in the world buy cr*p when it's pushed out there simply because they're so desperately bored with their lives that they'll buy at least one option from a selection of all-bad options.



     

    /cheer



     
    What's regretful is that in the 4 years since WoW launched all the geeks and SOE rejects combined haven't come up with something better.

    I think Mythic "tried" with WARhammer.

    image

  • CromicaCromica Member UncommonPosts: 657
    Originally posted by chiffington

    Originally posted by Cromica
     
    So you are upset because blizzard and microsoft make money by only doing the minimum? Sorry to tell you this but the entire business world is about this, do only what you have to do to get money you are looking for.



     

    I'm not upset in the slightest.  Don't put words in my 'mouth'; and your patronising MMO-forum tone is not welcome either.  Believe it or not, some of us hope for a brighter world where people do the best they can rather than sell-off the shoddiest product at the cheapest price.  That is how some companies have become successful - so your know-it-all assertion that the 'entire business world' is your way of thinking is distinctly wrong.  The bad ones just made it through sheer marketing and the willingness of people to be led.

    I just find it regretful that so many people out there in the world buy cr*p when it's pushed out there simply because they're so desperately bored with their lives that they'll buy at least one option from a selection of all-bad options.

     

    You just keep dreaming that dream of a brighter more friendly world, at the end of the day the only thing that matters is how much money my company makes over my competition and what I can do tomorrow to hurt them even more. I do know that companies don't care about there customers, all we care about is your money and what ever we have to do to get it, and the fact that a company has survived and is making money means that they are successful good or bad has nothing to do with it, ethics get thrown out the window when no one is watching, and that is what business is like.

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by chiffington


    Blizzard's Warcraft series was a concept ripped off, like so many RTS's.  However, they were GOOD rip-offs that had some great fun times associated with them.  The RTS market was still relatively weak back then.  Warcraft 1 and 2 were pretty good, and Warcraft 3 added alot of story-based aspect to a game that wasn't really developing that much.
    Diablo was dire.  It showed a distinct direction for Blizzard that started it's definite spiral into what I tend to sneer at in games.  Complete baseline repetitive tedium. Another drawn icon and slightly different numbers on a database object and you had another 'awesome item of l00t'.  Rather than there being some basic items and some awesome rarer items, or especially crafted items generated by games of skill (so the good players who practiced could become better) they started slapping in random drops of 10 tons of cr*p.  Thus the obsession with l00t grew.
    World of Warcraft came along and was yet another ripoff, and it took the most basest, common denominators and stuck them into a game so basic that even Everquest players sneered at it.  The pace was slow enough for the most simple of players to join in, and the quests so tedious that it numbed many, many players' minds down until they were content to sit there day after day with multiple accounts raiding constantly.
    WoW's biggest success was in the player-base, since if you stuck with it enough you would eventually find some decent people and all end up having fun together.  My brother was like that, he found a great guild and they all stuck together and enjoyed themselves immensely.  Inevitably though, the guild broke down as people became bored, and he ended up leaving, as he realised the only reason he'd been playing for the last 9 months was for those few people, and that the game really WAS tedious.
    Blizzard's ultimate success stemmed from the same thing that made Microsoft so huge - marketing.  Blizzard swamped the world with adverts, TV shows, stories and sometimes outright lies and misrepresentations about how fantastic the game was.  Soon enough it became the case, like Windows, that you should play it because it is THE game everyone plays and there aren't any others worth mentioning.  People chose it because other people chose it.
    I can respect Blizzard the same way I respect Microsoft.  They pushed themselves out there onto everyone and made a shedload of money from it.  Their earlier games had some promise, but rather than develop they chose to sit in the dark with the lights off.

    I haven't played Diablo for a very long time but from what I understand is what set it apart is the its randomized aspects and excellent online feature.



    Now World of Warcraft I have played  for quite a long time and i do not agree with your describtion at all, or your explanation on why it it's so popular.

    Everquest players sneered at World of Warcraft because World of Warcraft was outselling Everquest. Everquest does not have more depth than World of Warcraft. In fact, most other mmorpgs in general don't really have much more or less depth than World of Warcraft.



    The hidden ingredient that made World of Warcraft such a hit was it's accessibility and the way it guided players to become familar with the genre and the game. For instance, when you first create your character you're dropped in a small region away from the main cities. This area is usually small and a quest giver with a big question mark above its head is right in front of you.  This will give the player a direction what they should be doing. Eventually the NPC will give you a letter or a stone inviting you to find the trainer of your class. The quests will eventually move you away from the small area into the large city, introducing each aspect of the game one by one. Is this any less difficult than looking around aimlessly in a big city, having no clue what to do? Not really.



    It's not that World of Warcraft is any less difficult or complicated than most other MMOs, it's just that WoW introduces the player to new aspect in a great pace. If you let any person who never played WoW before play on your high level character, you can bet that player will be completely confused and will not make use to the full capabilities of his class. That's because he has been thrown in the pool.



    Content is going to be repetive no matter which mmorpg you play because such is the nature of the genre. It's nearly impossible to not have any form of repetition in a game that last longer than 8 hours, let alone a game that is supposed to last for months. While the objectives were repetetive, the game did do a good job of further developing your class, so while the objectives may be the same, the skills and strategies you used to deal with them did evolve. Another reason is, and i consider this WoW's best aspect, is the world that these quests would take you one. Azeroth is almost begging to be explored and due to its excellent world design, it feels like a real world.



    I didn't really have that feeling in most other mmorpgs.



    I doubt that its community aspect alone was its big success. This would mean every mmorpg would be as successful as WoW doesn't really have a better community than other games nor are its community aspects any better than other mmorpgs. You have a friendlist and a guild which you can pretty much only raid with and thats about it. Functional, but nothing really exciting.



    It's not surprising your brother left because a big part of the lasting impressions a game makes on you is it community. No matter how fun something is, if you have been doing that with a group of people you really like for such a long time, doing it by yourself might feel like it's just not the same.

    From my memory, World of Warcraft's advertisement didn't became so bold long after it already passed every mmorpgs subscribtion numbers.

     

  • EbenEben Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 522
    Originally posted by Varny

    Originally posted by Chieftan

    Originally posted by PapaB34R



    Blizzard is heading from a niche company producing outstanding games towards a more mainstream and less unique way. Quantity wins over quality in their eyes and to me, first having the huge letdown warcraft 3 was, without blood, gore, with disney like half animals, half man kinda creatures... then having a MMO based on something out of a disney movie published, its embaracing to say the least.


     

    Are you on crack?  The first two Warcraft games look like saturday morning cartoons...

     

    Yeah Quantity because Blizzard just keeps rushing out all their titles every year like Madden don't they.......



    Blizzard havn't made a game since 2004 that wasn't and expansion and even then theres only been 2 in five years. Unlike SOe which likes to release 2 or 3 half arsed attempts which end up ruining the game. Starcraft 2 has been delayed yet again and Diablo 3 doesn't even have a target year yet but it'll probably be 2011.



    Blizzard take the term it'll be ready when it's done to the extreme and they have yet to make a bad game.

     

    Morons on this board.



     

    It used to be 'it'll be ready when it's done' now the motto is 'delay until competition is close to launch'.  Cataclysm will launch within weeks of TOR.  I'd put money on it.  And it'll be magically 'all done!!' just in time. 

    Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.

  • KordeshKordesh Member Posts: 1,715

     Blizzard fell into the same trap as many other companies that suddenly become a popular success. They lose sight of what made them unique, begin milking their fans and IP, and while the "quality" might be there from a programming standpoint, everything else goes to hell. Blizzard before WoW was nothing like it is today. The pairing with Activision was a fitting one, as they're both soulless industry whores now. Just look at Warcraft. The lore gets butchered more and more with each laughable patch/expansion. 

    Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.

    EAT ME MMORPG.com!

  • EuphorykEuphoryk Member Posts: 450
    Originally posted by Kordesh


    Just look at Warcraft. The lore gets butchered more and more with each laughable patch/expansion. 

     

    You do realize that it is there lore to change as they see fit, right? They created it, they can modify it in any way they choose.

    Just because you dislike it, does not equate to something being butchered.

     

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Originally posted by Vicatin


    A+ company.
     
    They gave MMO's so much exposure. They put MMO games 5+ years ahead of their time.

    Sorry that was high bandwidth DSL that did that,and also the reason WOW had so many new gamers to grab.Everyone asked about EQ back in the day but the majority still had 56k.No question EQ put mmo's on the map,heck where do you think the Blizzard got their idea from for making a MMO?They were all playing EQ lol,this is also the reason WOW is such a copy of EQ,the Blizzard devs had little knowledge outside of EQ for MMO's.They were stil lmaking overhead view console type games like SC and Diablo,again ancient tech.

    This is also the same reason PPV has risen so much over the years.Dana White thinks it was him who made the UFC what it is,but in reality DSL gave a lot of things more exposure,including for millions of viewers ,just the ability to watch TV,instead of rabbit years.

    As far as ahead of their times,this was also SOE as EQ2 revolutionized 3d graphics for MMORPG's,WOW[Blizzards game] is actually Ancient and NOTHING close to ahead of their time.Right now at this point in time ,the warcraft engine[WOW] is scraping the bottom of the barrell for tech,they are basically last place amongst all developers of any note.If you want to compare WOW to Mabinogi then ya it may win out,hence why i said NOTABLE developers.

    I think posts like these and the hundreds of WOW forum posts i have seen over the years,shows how little the WOW fanbase really knows about gaming,they are just TREND followers,people that follow the "numbers" and the crowd.No two legs to stand on when you mentions thing like "ahead of their time" lol.I would like to hear one logical person tell me ancient tech and copying others is ahead of their time worthy.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    Originally posted by Vicatin


    A+ company.
     
    They gave MMO's so much exposure. They put MMO games 5+ years ahead of their time.

    Sorry that was high bandwidth DSL that did that,and also the reason WOW had so many new gamers to grab.Everyone asked about EQ back in the day but the majority still had 56k.No question EQ put mmo's on the map,heck where do you think the Blizzard got their idea from for making a MMO?They were all playing EQ lol,this is also the reason WOW is such a copy of EQ,the Blizzard devs had little knowledge outside of EQ for MMO's.They were stil lmaking overhead view console type games like SC and Diablo,again ancient tech.

    This is also the same reason PPV has risen so much over the years.Dana White thinks it was him who made the UFC what it is,but in reality DSL gave a lot of things more exposure,including for millions of viewers ,just the ability to watch TV,instead of rabbit years.

    As far as ahead of their times,this was also SOE as EQ2 revolutionized 3d graphics for MMORPG's,WOW[Blizzards game] is actually Ancient and NOTHING close to ahead of their time.Right now at this point in time ,the warcraft engine[WOW] is scraping the bottom of the barrell for tech,they are basically last place amongst all developers of any note.If you want to compare WOW to Mabinogi then ya it may win out,hence why i said NOTABLE developers.

    I think posts like these and the hundreds of WOW forum posts i have seen over the years,shows how little the WOW fanbase really knows about gaming,they are just TREND followers,people that follow the "numbers" and the crowd.No two legs to stand on when you mentions thing like "ahead of their time" lol.I would like to hear one logical person tell me ancient tech and copying others is ahead of their time worthy.

    If you're going to argue that Everquest put MMORPGs on the map, I'm going to argue that Ultima Online put MMORPGs on the map. If you're going to reply "But Everquest was more popular than UO!" i'll simply point out that the difference between WoW's and EQ's numbers is significantly larger than the difference between UO's and EQ's. 

    Also at Kordesh, that has to be one of the worst examples I have heard.

    "Blizzard is now an industry whore because of the lore"

    Seriously, the Lore? The lore is the least important aspect of World of Warcraft, never should gameplay concepts be rejected because of lore. If a developer has to make the decisions between gameplay and lore, they should always pick gameplay over lore.



     

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,981

    I think Blizzard singlehandedly destroyed MMO genre. Or more precisely they set it back at least 10 years back.

    Before WOW MMOs were about virtual simulated worlds, with focus on community and sandbox elements, and aimed at "thinking gamer"

    After WOW MMOs are theme parks for people with ADD , with focus on grinds and dangling carrots.

    But since WOW is making gazzilions , publisher can not deny the fact that Blizzard system works (financially) so they keep pushing all those WOW clones, in hope to get a piece of the cake.



  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    I think Blizzard singlehandedly destroyed MMO genre. Or more precisely they set it back at least 10 years back.
    Before WOW MMOs were about virtual simulated worlds, with focus on community and sandbox elements, and aimed at "thinking gamer"
    After WOW MMOs are theme parks for people with ADD , with focus on grinds and dangling carrots.
    But since WOW is making gazzilions , publisher can not deny the fact that Blizzard system works (financially) so they keep pushing all those WOW clones, in hope to get a piece of the cake.

    It gets really tiring hearing this load of crap.

    The problem with the genre is that it is filled with developers who keep repeating the same damn mistakes over and over again.  Ten years and companies still release piles of garbage and expect players to hand over money for 18 months while they try to fix their busted piles of shit.  If blizzard didn't create wow, we would all still be handing out cash for busted unfinished mmos, because developers can't do their fucking jobs.

     

    You know, any one your "super thinking man community" games could come along and kick wow from its throne, but it hasn't and do you know why? See above.

     

     

  • isurusisurus Member Posts: 396

    Blizzard = marketing + polish.

    image

  • DreamagramDreamagram Member Posts: 798
    Originally posted by PapaB34R


    Well Blizzard doesnt exist anymore.. or well it does but it has merged with Activision I believe.


    Just a small correction here: Activision Blizzard is a merger between Vivendi Games and Activision. The developing studio commonly referred to as "Blizzard" (full name being Blizzard Entertainment) was no part of the merger, and exists very much like before.

Sign In or Register to comment.