So many "lolz" at this post. first off having "WoW and serious players" in the same sentence is funny.
Second...you claim to play WoW from the beggening, and you are complaining about the armor reset....uhmm where were you for BC and WoTLK.....thats why I quite there is just no point to level anymore.
So I play'd for 9 months, and figured this out. and you play'd for...almost 5 years? and JUST got it? lolz
Games can be serious for competetive people! Look at baseball and football games meant for fun but there are pro levels for the best of the best maybe thats what drives the OP! I am competitive and its what drives me.
Now I would say the OP maybe picked the wrong game....top raider in WOW is = the best tri cycle rider in the world...sure he is the best in the world but at the end of the day do you say man I aspire to be him!
Dewm,how old are you 15-18 yrs old? you have to be a young and very nieve.Don't bash people's posts it was an opinion last words of my post it was not a flame .Have a good day.
I don't do it for gear... I don't it cause I enjoy the lore and I enjoy seeing things from Warcraft 3 come to life inside the game. I play because I have fun doing it and this is what I hate because in Star Wars Galaxies I did content because it was Star Wars. You wern't rewarded but other than a badge or a painting or something saying you did it. Why does everything have to be about getting something? Can't you just play because it is fun?
The problem with raiding in WoW is that it's not fun; the repetition and effort required to master a dungeon points to an end goal. And that is none other than the tier item drops.
So given the hassle getting a raid together is, who would do that at level 60 to experience BWL? Or would one form a raid just to skim through the content, without really being interested in defeating the bosses? By design, the raid dungeons in WoW were made to keep you occupied for a long, long time at cap level. You can go to Naxxramas at level 80, but in reality you're not getting anything out of the dungeon other than sight-seeing, because it is not challenging nor rewarding.
Here's what you have to do Believe all the hype about a game like let's say, Mabinogi. Download it, play it and then you get the sinking feeling of wasting your time on another crappy game. Then maybe you can go back and play wow and realize how great a game it really is. Right now I am trying Neo Steam, which is good so far. You just have to take a break once in a while to know what a great company Blizz is. Of course they are in the market to make money, we all are. I can't wait till the next expansion just see the new stuff. Any (serious) gamers out there don't just try one game and stay there for ten years, your not a serious gamer if you play wow all day everyday, that's called a addict lol. Now get up, go take a shower, make a cup of coffee and then go to the game list on this site and try something new for a bit. There are a ton of free games to try. You will be ok, don't worry, I know the sunshine hurts your eyes, and you will probably get the shakes from not being in Northrend, but it will be ok. OH, AND HEY BLIZZ (KNOCKS ON SCREEN) INSTEAD OF WOW EXPANSIONS, WHEN THE HELL YOU GONNA DO A STARCRAFT MMO FOR BOLLOCKS SAKE?!?!?!
It's taken you this long to notice? lol I quit at the release of BC and never looked back. Spending hours each night raiding for gear that will be obsolete in under a year is completely retarded, no matter which way you look at it. I guess that's why I always thought people still playing wow after BC were a slight bit retarded.
IMO, mmo itemization should be set to like a 4-5 year horizon so that your expansions are all about building new content, classes, crafting, pvp, and other systems to provide variety in the ways that you hunt for items. After all, mmos are really about the hunt for items. Some may not be as interested in itemization, but it is clear that itemization is the driving factor in mmos. Now they just need to do itemization right. (Hint d2 on a very large scale).
Originally posted by thexrated Bad example. Just compare The Dark Knight to Transformers 2/G.I. Joe. A good film does not have to be made for art school grads and Mensa members, nor does it have to be dumbed down to have mass appeal. Both Transformers 2 and G.I. Joe are just special effect extravaganzas with very little "movie" in them - whereas other recent films like The Dark Knight and Iron Man provide a lot more solid experience that you can enjoy even if you are not a rapid fanboi.
"Dark Knight' and 'Iron Man' were both good movies, but they were not in the least bit challenging or inspired film-making.
Blizzard is doing something very smart here: Every time they release a new tougher raid and up the ante on the gear levels, they make it easier for casuals to get into yesterdays toughest dungeon.
The problem is, there is not point in going in those dungeons anymore; how many players are going to bother with Blackwing Lair now? Or Naxxramas?
The point is to experience the content. Not everybody playing WoW is gear-obsessed. They want to play the game, have fun, experience a little challenge, and move the hell on. That's tough to do when only 5% of players can actually access some of the content, EVER. There's no reason to build a permanent wall between the majority of your players and the top content.
This is exactly what happened with the original Naxx, and with several of the raids in BC. They're doing this to avoid the same thing all over again.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
The way gear is now is exactly how it was then. Sure you can get epics easy, they aren't good epics...
5 man heroic ToC gear isn't half as good as Ulduar 25 drops, or hard mode drops, or even the good OS25 and Maly 25 drops...
BTW Crying about your gear becoming worth "less" is sad, its called progression, if you have played MMO's for any peroid of time you know this happens...
Here's how you play WoW and have a real life. When an expansion comes out buy it and play it for a month. You will then have the same or better gear than people that wasted the last 6 months raiding. Cancel sub. Repeat upon release of next xpac. I think they do it just to draw back old players for a bit and to cash in on another 49.95 per customer. They promise great things which generally end up getting nerfed/ watered down in the next few months. Then you realize the new awesome thing was just cut and pasted from a lev 20 area with a few different colored higher level mobs in it. I guess their WoW toolkit only goes so far, because they make games the same way I did in their single player games.
The point is to experience the content. Not everybody playing WoW is gear-obsessed. They want to play the game, have fun, experience a little challenge, and move the hell on. That's tough to do when only 5% of players can actually access some of the content, EVER. There's no reason to build a permanent wall between the majority of your players and the top content. This is exactly what happened with the original Naxx, and with several of the raids in BC. They're doing this to avoid the same thing all over again.
gosh, how hard is it to understand?
Top-content can be classified as top, only when it is harder compared to all other content. If you make all content accessible to everyone, then you have blown all distinguishing factors to pieces.
Blizzard hasn't managed to find a way to add content to its existing content; they simply swap high-end dungeons with new ones (now dumbed down for accessibility's sake), rinse and repeat.
Ulduar is still quite a challenge in parts (and the newest Trial raid too apparently) - it might not be as crazy hard as many vanilla and TBC raids but it has its moments. After all how many "casuals" have defeated Yogg-Saron? As well, after you've defeated a boss a few times and learnt the strategies you tend to forget the many fail attempts it took to get there.
Ulduar is still quite a challenge in parts (and the newest Trial raid too apparently) - it might not be as crazy hard as many vanilla and TBC raids but it has its moments. After all how many "casuals" have defeated Yogg-Saron? As well, after you've defeated a boss a few times and learnt the strategies you tend to forget the many fail attempts it took to get there.
I don't think any boss can match the challenge Nefarious posed in vanilla WoW...there were guilds struggling for a whole year till they got him down.
Ulduar is still quite a challenge in parts (and the newest Trial raid too apparently) - it might not be as crazy hard as many vanilla and TBC raids but it has its moments. After all how many "casuals" have defeated Yogg-Saron? As well, after you've defeated a boss a few times and learnt the strategies you tend to forget the many fail attempts it took to get there.
I don't think any boss can match the challenge Nefarious posed in vanilla WoW...there were guilds struggling for a whole year till they got him down.
There are still guilds struggling in Naxx right now. Nefarian was hard in his day, but by no means the hardest boss. Chromaggus and Vaelastrasz were both much harder. Vaelastrasz being one of the hardest fights in the game, because anyone could screw it up.
Currently hard modes are just as challenging if not harder.
Ulduar is still quite a challenge in parts (and the newest Trial raid too apparently) - it might not be as crazy hard as many vanilla and TBC raids but it has its moments. After all how many "casuals" have defeated Yogg-Saron? As well, after you've defeated a boss a few times and learnt the strategies you tend to forget the many fail attempts it took to get there.
I don't think any boss can match the challenge Nefarious posed in vanilla WoW...there were guilds struggling for a whole year till they got him down.
There are still guilds struggling in Naxx right now. Nefarian was hard in his day, but by no means the hardest boss. Chromaggus and Vaelastrasz were both much harder. Vaelastrasz being one of the hardest fights in the game, because anyone could screw it up.
Currently hard modes are just as challenging if not harder.
Weirdly enough it took my guild longer to down Onyxia then it did for us to kill Vael. I guess the difficulty of the fight is really dependant on how skillfull the players are. We had some very good tanks when we started on Vael so it only took us a few treis to get familar with the fight enough to beat it. On the other hand we were all very green when we started on Onyxia so it took forever to get all of us into a raiding mindset.
You have to take in the fact of the gear and talent trees available now vs.Ony and in reality with those said gear and talents Ony is still somewhat of a challenge if you take in the lvl cap at the time before then and now i mean 80 lvl vs, what 50-55 i can't remember exactly been a long time for me.Ony was a fun fight but took good coordination and execution and a lot of people to complete.Those were truly the good ol days of WoW.
Yeah, 40 people made for much more chaos in a raid on top of raiding still being a very fresh aspect of the game for many people. Nearly 5 years of raid experience will make any game seem easier.
In a nutshell it is another part of their recent push to enable people to "play with your friends easily". In the same vein as their easy character/server transfers and planned faction change capability.
The downside to the steep curve on all progression raiding is it makes it very very dificult for someone entering the progression path later to ever catch up and join their friends in end game content. Beyond a certain point there just is not the oporunity to run the earlier raids to gear up with what you need for the later. This causes problems on several fronts. newer or lesser progressed characters get frustrated because at best they are stuck pugging with strangers in order to get what they need to play with friends, or at worst simply can never get there. Raiders get frustrated because beyond a certain point there is no viable path of replacement folks as their core gets burned out, unless they drop down a tier to work newcommers through the content. And finally experienced geared players have no incentive to make use of the lower tier raid or dungeon content in order to assist those less progressed get through it, so they are either raiding or standing around bored, or grinding alts. All of these scenarios lead to cancelled subscriptions.
Today, with some of the upper tier gear available via badge/emblems, or simply lower level content grinding it provides alot of benefits. Those newcomers can actually catch up. While they will not get to the uberest gear levels, someone starting today could gear to a point where they could easily be well set for Ulduar 10, and be if not top end, at least a viable benefit for Ulduar 25, using mainly ToC and Emblem gear. I know this. My wife started playing recently. She just entered Ulduar with us for the first time on Saturday. The path to getting her there was not overly onerus or painful. She is playing with her friends and family and making an acceptable contribution to the raid effort, and not simply being dragged along. As a marketing tool and all around fun factor, this is a good thing. Part of the reason she was able to gear up so well so fast was that since the patch there are always several heroic groups running in our guild at any given time. All of our guilds tanks and healers are in play for 5 man content, since they can get items they need from Conquest and Triumph emblems. People playing and doing things with friends keeps subscriptions going. This is not complicated math.
Now there is some downside in the form of the sense of achievement. But at least with Ulduar Blizz did a decent job with the heroic modes to buffer that a bit,a nd leave the challenges there while still letting a much broader swath see and enjoy the content. The Triumph stuff probably needs a little more work, or at least some graphics tweaks so the more challenging stuff looks a little diferent for vanity purposes (yeah they dropped the ball on the t9 armor art and variety).
Overall the benefits to long term player happiness probably outweigh the desireability of catering to the most absolute hardcores sense of accomplishment and vanity.
Comments
So many "lolz" at this post. first off having "WoW and serious players" in the same sentence is funny.
Second...you claim to play WoW from the beggening, and you are complaining about the armor reset....uhmm where were you for BC and WoTLK.....thats why I quite there is just no point to level anymore.
So I play'd for 9 months, and figured this out. and you play'd for...almost 5 years? and JUST got it? lolz
Please check out my channel. I do gaming reviews, gaming related reviews & lets plays. Thanks!
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Games can be serious for competetive people! Look at baseball and football games meant for fun but there are pro levels for the best of the best maybe thats what drives the OP! I am competitive and its what drives me.
Now I would say the OP maybe picked the wrong game....top raider in WOW is = the best tri cycle rider in the world...sure he is the best in the world but at the end of the day do you say man I aspire to be him!
Dewm,how old are you 15-18 yrs old? you have to be a young and very nieve.Don't bash people's posts it was an opinion last words of my post it was not a flame .Have a good day.
The problem with raiding in WoW is that it's not fun; the repetition and effort required to master a dungeon points to an end goal. And that is none other than the tier item drops.
So given the hassle getting a raid together is, who would do that at level 60 to experience BWL? Or would one form a raid just to skim through the content, without really being interested in defeating the bosses? By design, the raid dungeons in WoW were made to keep you occupied for a long, long time at cap level. You can go to Naxxramas at level 80, but in reality you're not getting anything out of the dungeon other than sight-seeing, because it is not challenging nor rewarding.
op, find a job then you might understand the reason that games are more of a relaxing entertainment form than anyhting else.
You, sir, deserve a high five.
It's taken you this long to notice? lol I quit at the release of BC and never looked back. Spending hours each night raiding for gear that will be obsolete in under a year is completely retarded, no matter which way you look at it. I guess that's why I always thought people still playing wow after BC were a slight bit retarded.
IMO, mmo itemization should be set to like a 4-5 year horizon so that your expansions are all about building new content, classes, crafting, pvp, and other systems to provide variety in the ways that you hunt for items. After all, mmos are really about the hunt for items. Some may not be as interested in itemization, but it is clear that itemization is the driving factor in mmos. Now they just need to do itemization right. (Hint d2 on a very large scale).
"Dark Knight' and 'Iron Man' were both good movies, but they were not in the least bit challenging or inspired film-making.
You missed his point:
1. They were popular
2. They didn't suck
/end of thread
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The problem is, there is not point in going in those dungeons anymore; how many players are going to bother with Blackwing Lair now? Or Naxxramas?
The point is to experience the content. Not everybody playing WoW is gear-obsessed. They want to play the game, have fun, experience a little challenge, and move the hell on. That's tough to do when only 5% of players can actually access some of the content, EVER. There's no reason to build a permanent wall between the majority of your players and the top content.
This is exactly what happened with the original Naxx, and with several of the raids in BC. They're doing this to avoid the same thing all over again.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
The ultimate irony, when a player QQs because devs put new content in the game.
TL;DR
Obviously OP didn't play durring Sunwell.
The way gear is now is exactly how it was then. Sure you can get epics easy, they aren't good epics...
5 man heroic ToC gear isn't half as good as Ulduar 25 drops, or hard mode drops, or even the good OS25 and Maly 25 drops...
BTW Crying about your gear becoming worth "less" is sad, its called progression, if you have played MMO's for any peroid of time you know this happens...
Here's how you play WoW and have a real life. When an expansion comes out buy it and play it for a month. You will then have the same or better gear than people that wasted the last 6 months raiding. Cancel sub. Repeat upon release of next xpac. I think they do it just to draw back old players for a bit and to cash in on another 49.95 per customer. They promise great things which generally end up getting nerfed/ watered down in the next few months. Then you realize the new awesome thing was just cut and pasted from a lev 20 area with a few different colored higher level mobs in it. I guess their WoW toolkit only goes so far, because they make games the same way I did in their single player games.
gosh, how hard is it to understand?
Top-content can be classified as top, only when it is harder compared to all other content. If you make all content accessible to everyone, then you have blown all distinguishing factors to pieces.
Blizzard hasn't managed to find a way to add content to its existing content; they simply swap high-end dungeons with new ones (now dumbed down for accessibility's sake), rinse and repeat.
The best way to play WoW is to not play WoW. Then you never don't have the best gear.
Why bother questing for gear at level 17, when you are just going to replace it at level 23.
See how silly these kind of statements look when you take a look at it from just a slightly different angle?
Ulduar is still quite a challenge in parts (and the newest Trial raid too apparently) - it might not be as crazy hard as many vanilla and TBC raids but it has its moments. After all how many "casuals" have defeated Yogg-Saron? As well, after you've defeated a boss a few times and learnt the strategies you tend to forget the many fail attempts it took to get there.
I don't think any boss can match the challenge Nefarious posed in vanilla WoW...there were guilds struggling for a whole year till they got him down.
I don't think any boss can match the challenge Nefarious posed in vanilla WoW...there were guilds struggling for a whole year till they got him down.
There are still guilds struggling in Naxx right now. Nefarian was hard in his day, but by no means the hardest boss. Chromaggus and Vaelastrasz were both much harder. Vaelastrasz being one of the hardest fights in the game, because anyone could screw it up.
Currently hard modes are just as challenging if not harder.
OP,
Try a new MMO or get some sun maybe? Its pretty simple really, not a life changing decision or anything.
WoW truely is going downhill...I dont play it right now but I see post after post of people complaining about it.
Poor Blizzard.....
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
I don't think any boss can match the challenge Nefarious posed in vanilla WoW...there were guilds struggling for a whole year till they got him down.
There are still guilds struggling in Naxx right now. Nefarian was hard in his day, but by no means the hardest boss. Chromaggus and Vaelastrasz were both much harder. Vaelastrasz being one of the hardest fights in the game, because anyone could screw it up.
Currently hard modes are just as challenging if not harder.
Weirdly enough it took my guild longer to down Onyxia then it did for us to kill Vael. I guess the difficulty of the fight is really dependant on how skillfull the players are. We had some very good tanks when we started on Vael so it only took us a few treis to get familar with the fight enough to beat it. On the other hand we were all very green when we started on Onyxia so it took forever to get all of us into a raiding mindset.
You have to take in the fact of the gear and talent trees available now vs.Ony and in reality with those said gear and talents Ony is still somewhat of a challenge if you take in the lvl cap at the time before then and now i mean 80 lvl vs, what 50-55 i can't remember exactly been a long time for me.Ony was a fun fight but took good coordination and execution and a lot of people to complete.Those were truly the good ol days of WoW.
Yeah, 40 people made for much more chaos in a raid on top of raiding still being a very fresh aspect of the game for many people. Nearly 5 years of raid experience will make any game seem easier.
Why is Blizzard doing this?
In a nutshell it is another part of their recent push to enable people to "play with your friends easily". In the same vein as their easy character/server transfers and planned faction change capability.
The downside to the steep curve on all progression raiding is it makes it very very dificult for someone entering the progression path later to ever catch up and join their friends in end game content. Beyond a certain point there just is not the oporunity to run the earlier raids to gear up with what you need for the later. This causes problems on several fronts. newer or lesser progressed characters get frustrated because at best they are stuck pugging with strangers in order to get what they need to play with friends, or at worst simply can never get there. Raiders get frustrated because beyond a certain point there is no viable path of replacement folks as their core gets burned out, unless they drop down a tier to work newcommers through the content. And finally experienced geared players have no incentive to make use of the lower tier raid or dungeon content in order to assist those less progressed get through it, so they are either raiding or standing around bored, or grinding alts. All of these scenarios lead to cancelled subscriptions.
Today, with some of the upper tier gear available via badge/emblems, or simply lower level content grinding it provides alot of benefits. Those newcomers can actually catch up. While they will not get to the uberest gear levels, someone starting today could gear to a point where they could easily be well set for Ulduar 10, and be if not top end, at least a viable benefit for Ulduar 25, using mainly ToC and Emblem gear. I know this. My wife started playing recently. She just entered Ulduar with us for the first time on Saturday. The path to getting her there was not overly onerus or painful. She is playing with her friends and family and making an acceptable contribution to the raid effort, and not simply being dragged along. As a marketing tool and all around fun factor, this is a good thing. Part of the reason she was able to gear up so well so fast was that since the patch there are always several heroic groups running in our guild at any given time. All of our guilds tanks and healers are in play for 5 man content, since they can get items they need from Conquest and Triumph emblems. People playing and doing things with friends keeps subscriptions going. This is not complicated math.
Now there is some downside in the form of the sense of achievement. But at least with Ulduar Blizz did a decent job with the heroic modes to buffer that a bit,a nd leave the challenges there while still letting a much broader swath see and enjoy the content. The Triumph stuff probably needs a little more work, or at least some graphics tweaks so the more challenging stuff looks a little diferent for vanity purposes (yeah they dropped the ball on the t9 armor art and variety).
Overall the benefits to long term player happiness probably outweigh the desireability of catering to the most absolute hardcores sense of accomplishment and vanity.