Just wondering, but do you think there should be sword in sci fi mmos? The only one i think is Star-Wars, and thats because it is based off the movies. But I just want to know what others think about it. Sometimes it seems like there are sci fi mmos that are masked as fantasy genres.
Guns are great and all, but I suspect that hitting people with a big sharp piece of metal that doesn't require ammunition, power, maintenence (apart from a wipe rag and a whetstone), make any inherent noise, show up on "energy scans", and that can also be used as a utility tool, will never entirely go out of fashion
Just wondering, but do you think there should be sword in sci fi mmos? The only one i think is Star-Wars, and thats because it is based off the movies. But I just want to know what others think about it. Sometimes it seems like there are sci fi mmos that are masked as fantasy genres.
Guns are great and all, but I suspect that hitting people with a big sharp piece of metal that doesn't require ammunition, power, maintenence (apart from a wipe rag and a whetstone), make any inherent noise, show up on "energy scans", and that can also be used as a utility tool, will never entirely go out of fashion
problem with games with amo type attack they never run out of bullet at same time as rogue say they should limit those to 6 amo and reloadable by hand not a 100 amo mag you just clip on lol
I think as a secondary or close-combat weapon, using some sort of a blade is fine, but using a low tech blade as your primary weapon makes about as much sense as using a rock as your primary weapon.
I agree. Swords may not be present, but something smaller with a wider variety of attacks would be viable. Combat knife, anyone? Seriously, swords are limited and straightforward. While knives lack the power of the sword, they make up for it by having unmatched precision (when used in the right hands, i.e. Apache knife fighters). Plus they're lighter, easier to carry, a multi-purpose tool, etc., etc. That's why modern armies equip them today, not swords. A realistic sci-fi game (meaning one that is in the future, but that has logical progression in technology from our present time) would not use swords. But a pure sci-fi game might, just because swords have always been a part of human nature and there might be a good reason to justify their use (like what Dune did - that makes the use of swords plausible).
Just wondering, but do you think there should be sword in sci fi mmos? The only one i think is Star-Wars, and thats because it is based off the movies. But I just want to know what others think about it. Sometimes it seems like there are sci fi mmos that are masked as fantasy genres.
Guns are great and all, but I suspect that hitting people with a big sharp piece of metal that doesn't require ammunition, power, maintenence (apart from a wipe rag and a whetstone), make any inherent noise, show up on "energy scans", and that can also be used as a utility tool, will never entirely go out of fashion
problem with games with amo type attack they never run out of bullet at same time as rogue say they should limit those to 6 amo and reloadable by hand not a 100 amo mag you just clip on lol
www.ryzom.com/en/ is a fantasy / sci-fi mix and a pretty cool one too.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
There are a few reasons to use a bladed weapon rather than a gun in a sci-fi setting.
Maybe not a sword, which is a bit of a clunky weapon, but definately a knife.
Close-quarters combat for one; within a certain distance a concealed knife is more deadly than any holstered weapon, be it a modern .38 or a futuristic high-power plasma pistol. It doesn't matter how high-tech your gun is If you're dead before you can draw it.
As has been mentioned; force-fields also provide a theoretical situation whereby energy weapons and high-speed projectile fire might be ineffective.
Guns can also jam, overheat, run out of ammo, break down and are subject to environment conditions .. they are also somewhat conspicuous, expensive and difficult to conceal. By comparison, a knife is a cheap weapon, far easier to hide upon ones person, absolutely silent and the only thing that can go wrong with it would be for it to break.
No question that I'd be happier with a high-power sniperrifle than a pocket-knife at a distance of 500 ft, but I'd have a knife tucked into my boot nonetheless. They're just too useful.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Just wondering, but do you think there should be sword in sci fi mmos? The only one i think is Star-Wars, and thats because it is based off the movies. But I just want to know what others think about it. Sometimes it seems like there are sci fi mmos that are masked as fantasy genres.
Well, Dune is a good example. They used daggers/knives because of the shields could stop fast moving projectiles etc.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Just wondering, but do you think there should be sword in sci fi mmos? The only one i think is Star-Wars, and thats because it is based off the movies. But I just want to know what others think about it. Sometimes it seems like there are sci fi mmos that are masked as fantasy genres.
Slow down there Skippy. Star Wars isn't full Sci-Fi or Fantasy, its a subgenre of Sci-Fi called Space Opera. Star Trek is a Space Opera as well. Space Operas normally have a much broader scope, then most regular Sci-Fi stories.
Here is the definition from Wikipedia:
Space opera is a subgenre of speculative fiction or science fiction that emphasizes romantic, often melodramatic adventure, set mainly or entirely in space, generally involving conflict between opponents possessing powerful (and sometimes quite fanciful) technologies and abilities. Perhaps the most significant trait of space opera is that settings, characters, battles, powers, and themes tend to be very large-scale.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
Something like a knife would be as useful in a scifi setting as it is now, ie very,, maybe more if you have forcefields or cybernetics, but those are lame. No lasers though those are just stupid, then again I never liked laser guns either.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Fantasy books have been included as part of the science fiction group for many years.
I personally think they are more accurately described as science fiction fantasy or just fantasy, depending on the particular world. However, my personal views are not accepted practice.
We still use plenty of technology used hundreds of years ago in real life...if not adapted. Just make the swords have some random upgrade to it or 'power-up' of sort, and you're good to go for the people confused.
Only thing I'd agree with is balancing damage of such weapon types...a laser vs. a blade, sometimes that can be a little ridiculous in games...
Swords and other bladed weapons are used in Dune. Dune however actually provides a reason for swords being used. The Holtzman shields that generate a protective field around the individual (or ship) wearing the generator, react to the velocity of an incoming object. Fast moving objects like bullets/other projectiles are deflected by the shield. A slow moving object however can pass through the shield. This offers the wearer protection while still allowing them to interact with their environment. As a result a type of specialized hand to hand combat hand to be designed which uses slow movements to bypass shields but still do damange to the target. Swords offer the control and precision necessary for this specialized type of combat. Sorry for the nerdy wall o' text
Indeed, Dune really offers one relatively "reasonable" explanation as to why melee weapons and in most cases even long range balistic weapons are still used in such a distant future with all the awesome technology that exists in that time period. Although, it should be pointed out that they actually make more use of fast and concealable weapons like kinjals and your regular short swords/daggers more than 2H swords and other bulkier weapons.
On the actual point... I have nothing against melee weapons in SF games (yeah, even SW does it with cortosis woven weapons and... well, lightsabers), if for no other reason than mainly it's a good way to balance the classes.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
A sword or blade might also be a 'fashion statement'.
Swords were worn by Europeans for years - how many of those wearers were actaully competent to use them?
And yes, in close quarters a blade might be more useful than a 'stand off' weapon.
In fact - in one Sci-Fi novel I read years ago everyone carried holstered sidearms - but they never used them - it was socially unacceptable even in self defence. They fought with knives and hand to hand.
Well, a 'single molecule thick' edge on a collapsible blade might come in pretty handy. Slicing effortlessly through ship hulls, rocks, armor, raging otherwordly beasts, etc should be pretty fun especially if encased in a reflective armor/energy shield that protects against energy weapons and prohibits firing out of the protection. At any rate, it is all about inventing ways in which the characters can define themselves using these archetype weapons.
After all, 'future' weaponry most likely isn't the improved version of the six-shooter either.
Sci-fi and fantasy are similar in that virtually anything can be explained by the phrase "it was magic" or "advanced technology so complex it seems like magic"
Just wondering, but do you think there should be sword in sci fi mmos? The only one i think is Star-Wars, and thats because it is based off the movies. But I just want to know what others think about it. Sometimes it seems like there are sci fi mmos that are masked as fantasy genres.
Guns are great and all, but I suspect that hitting people with a big sharp piece of metal that doesn't require ammunition, power, maintenence (apart from a wipe rag and a whetstone), make any inherent noise, show up on "energy scans", and that can also be used as a utility tool, will never entirely go out of fashion
Some good responses in this thread.
There are times that, for whatever reason, you find yourself close to your opponent. The only thing that matters is that you accomplish your goal as effectively as possible, and sometimes that means using a blade; or a sci-fi representation of one.
It's also simple and simple means fewer problems, and that's always a good thing when you're trying to survive.
Same reason. Its outdated. And even the simplest handgun is more effective, even up close.
for sake of argument let say that true advanced sci-fi weaponry would be separated in following categories.
Energy - weapons that use powerful focused source of energy , to burn or otherwise damage mather
Disintegrator - weapons that use various laws of physics to manipulate mater into something else (or even suck it into another dimension)
Nano/biologic - weapons that target specific object and deconstruct it using nanorobots or biological agents
Kinetic - weapons that shoot projectiles.
Lets add to that that future weapons would have precise targeting computers built in. Shooting the target with pin point accuracy.
Or kinetic weapons with miniature tracking missiles.
So you see , even if you are finding yourself in position where fiering a weapon is dangerous ( inside a space ship ... etc )
There is surely many weapon alternatives, aside from swords...
Even if there are energy fields, that can reflect energy, antimater or gravity based weapon ray , than surely constructing shield that reflect kinetic energy is simple enough. ( Dune shield is fun concept but no intirely logical. There is no reason why same shield would not be let say 10mm thin and stopping everything. In that way it would not prevent any interaction with surroundings.)
So you see ... primitive weapons like swords are entirely uselles in advanced technical civilisation.
Even the most sophisticate civilizations tend to have traditions or a basis of hand-to-hand combat. Therefore knives, swords, and the like will never likely die from any genre. They become less utilized in heavy combat (war, etc) but specialists who get up close to their target would certainly need some sort of hand to hand, swords and other bladed weapons would then be useful.
Originally posted by Lobotomist ( Dune shield is fun concept but no intirely logical. There is no reason why same shield would not be let say 10mm thin and stopping everything. In that way it would not prevent any interaction with surroundings.)
Actually, the problem with turning a shield all the way up (which could be done) is that it cuts off you off from the surrounding *air*. At one point in the novel, a character in trouble turns his shield way up and can feel the air inside the shield starting to go stale; he has to walk the line between maximum possible protection and suffocating.
Originally posted by Lobotomist Air vent could be easily implemented
Having no knowledge of the actual basic principles of shield operation (being a fictional device, no one does), you have no way of knowing if that statement is true.
How well do swords work in modern militaries? Swords should be secondary, close-quarter combat weapons kind of like the bayonet, not a main choice for anyone but a stealthy character. Even then, a shorter blade, like a knife or a dagger, will work better because it's easier to maneuver.
If the story explains the reason for swords to be there, I guess it could work. Like Dune or Deathstalker or whatever. But I see those as exceptions, not a rule as I prefer Sci-fi that is more realistic.
Edit: Just wanted to point out that Sky Marshals use specialized ammunition that fragments when it impacts the aircraft's wall. So I'm not exactly sure how this whole "piercing space ship hull" thing will work.
If the story explains the reason for swords to be there, I guess it could work. Like Dune or Deathstalker or whatever. But I see those as exceptions, not a rule as I prefer Sci-fi that is more realistic. Edit: Just wanted to point out that Sky Marshals use specialized ammunition that fragments when it impacts the aircraft's wall. So I'm not exactly sure how this whole "piercing space ship hull" thing will work.
There can be plenty of good reasons for blades based on story and setting, the scarcity angle wouldn't be hard to work in.
As for the Sky Marshals, try getting onto a plane in body armor. Those rounds offer almost no penetration, which fine if you're shooting at unprotected passengers. I would guess those rounds would be pretty useless against Hockey or Lacrosse pads.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Comments
Guns are great and all, but I suspect that hitting people with a big sharp piece of metal that doesn't require ammunition, power, maintenence (apart from a wipe rag and a whetstone), make any inherent noise, show up on "energy scans", and that can also be used as a utility tool, will never entirely go out of fashion
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Guns are great and all, but I suspect that hitting people with a big sharp piece of metal that doesn't require ammunition, power, maintenence (apart from a wipe rag and a whetstone), make any inherent noise, show up on "energy scans", and that can also be used as a utility tool, will never entirely go out of fashion
problem with games with amo type attack they never run out of bullet at same time as rogue say they should limit those to 6 amo and reloadable by hand not a 100 amo mag you just clip on lol
I agree. Swords may not be present, but something smaller with a wider variety of attacks would be viable. Combat knife, anyone? Seriously, swords are limited and straightforward. While knives lack the power of the sword, they make up for it by having unmatched precision (when used in the right hands, i.e. Apache knife fighters). Plus they're lighter, easier to carry, a multi-purpose tool, etc., etc. That's why modern armies equip them today, not swords. A realistic sci-fi game (meaning one that is in the future, but that has logical progression in technology from our present time) would not use swords. But a pure sci-fi game might, just because swords have always been a part of human nature and there might be a good reason to justify their use (like what Dune did - that makes the use of swords plausible).
Guns are great and all, but I suspect that hitting people with a big sharp piece of metal that doesn't require ammunition, power, maintenence (apart from a wipe rag and a whetstone), make any inherent noise, show up on "energy scans", and that can also be used as a utility tool, will never entirely go out of fashion
problem with games with amo type attack they never run out of bullet at same time as rogue say they should limit those to 6 amo and reloadable by hand not a 100 amo mag you just clip on lol
Um what?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
It's cool.
www.ryzom.com/en/ is a fantasy / sci-fi mix and a pretty cool one too.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
There are a few reasons to use a bladed weapon rather than a gun in a sci-fi setting.
Maybe not a sword, which is a bit of a clunky weapon, but definately a knife.
Close-quarters combat for one; within a certain distance a concealed knife is more deadly than any holstered weapon, be it a modern .38 or a futuristic high-power plasma pistol. It doesn't matter how high-tech your gun is If you're dead before you can draw it.
As has been mentioned; force-fields also provide a theoretical situation whereby energy weapons and high-speed projectile fire might be ineffective.
Guns can also jam, overheat, run out of ammo, break down and are subject to environment conditions .. they are also somewhat conspicuous, expensive and difficult to conceal. By comparison, a knife is a cheap weapon, far easier to hide upon ones person, absolutely silent and the only thing that can go wrong with it would be for it to break.
No question that I'd be happier with a high-power sniperrifle than a pocket-knife at a distance of 500 ft, but I'd have a knife tucked into my boot nonetheless. They're just too useful.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Well, Dune is a good example. They used daggers/knives because of the shields could stop fast moving projectiles etc.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Slow down there Skippy. Star Wars isn't full Sci-Fi or Fantasy, its a subgenre of Sci-Fi called Space Opera. Star Trek is a Space Opera as well. Space Operas normally have a much broader scope, then most regular Sci-Fi stories.
Here is the definition from Wikipedia:
Space opera is a subgenre of speculative fiction or science fiction that emphasizes romantic, often melodramatic adventure, set mainly or entirely in space, generally involving conflict between opponents possessing powerful (and sometimes quite fanciful) technologies and abilities. Perhaps the most significant trait of space opera is that settings, characters, battles, powers, and themes tend to be very large-scale.
When we get back from where we are going, we will return to where we were. I know people there!
Something like a knife would be as useful in a scifi setting as it is now, ie very,, maybe more if you have forcefields or cybernetics, but those are lame. No lasers though those are just stupid, then again I never liked laser guns either.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Fantasy books have been included as part of the science fiction group for many years.
I personally think they are more accurately described as science fiction fantasy or just fantasy, depending on the particular world. However, my personal views are not accepted practice.
Because if it works & people like it / use it...
We still use plenty of technology used hundreds of years ago in real life...if not adapted. Just make the swords have some random upgrade to it or 'power-up' of sort, and you're good to go for the people confused.
Only thing I'd agree with is balancing damage of such weapon types...a laser vs. a blade, sometimes that can be a little ridiculous in games...
I think swords might actually be useful, but at the same time, too cumbersome to carry. I would expect large knives though to still be carried.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
Indeed, Dune really offers one relatively "reasonable" explanation as to why melee weapons and in most cases even long range balistic weapons are still used in such a distant future with all the awesome technology that exists in that time period. Although, it should be pointed out that they actually make more use of fast and concealable weapons like kinjals and your regular short swords/daggers more than 2H swords and other bulkier weapons.
On the actual point... I have nothing against melee weapons in SF games (yeah, even SW does it with cortosis woven weapons and... well, lightsabers), if for no other reason than mainly it's a good way to balance the classes.
A sword or blade might also be a 'fashion statement'.
Swords were worn by Europeans for years - how many of those wearers were actaully competent to use them?
And yes, in close quarters a blade might be more useful than a 'stand off' weapon.
In fact - in one Sci-Fi novel I read years ago everyone carried holstered sidearms - but they never used them - it was socially unacceptable even in self defence. They fought with knives and hand to hand.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Well, a 'single molecule thick' edge on a collapsible blade might come in pretty handy. Slicing effortlessly through ship hulls, rocks, armor, raging otherwordly beasts, etc should be pretty fun especially if encased in a reflective armor/energy shield that protects against energy weapons and prohibits firing out of the protection. At any rate, it is all about inventing ways in which the characters can define themselves using these archetype weapons.
After all, 'future' weaponry most likely isn't the improved version of the six-shooter either.
Sci-fi and fantasy are similar in that virtually anything can be explained by the phrase "it was magic" or "advanced technology so complex it seems like magic"
Guns are great and all, but I suspect that hitting people with a big sharp piece of metal that doesn't require ammunition, power, maintenence (apart from a wipe rag and a whetstone), make any inherent noise, show up on "energy scans", and that can also be used as a utility tool, will never entirely go out of fashion
Some good responses in this thread.
There are times that, for whatever reason, you find yourself close to your opponent. The only thing that matters is that you accomplish your goal as effectively as possible, and sometimes that means using a blade; or a sci-fi representation of one.
It's also simple and simple means fewer problems, and that's always a good thing when you're trying to survive.
Why is no modern armed force wielding swords ?
Same reason. Its outdated. And even the simplest handgun is more effective, even up close.
for sake of argument let say that true advanced sci-fi weaponry would be separated in following categories.
Energy - weapons that use powerful focused source of energy , to burn or otherwise damage mather
Disintegrator - weapons that use various laws of physics to manipulate mater into something else (or even suck it into another dimension)
Nano/biologic - weapons that target specific object and deconstruct it using nanorobots or biological agents
Kinetic - weapons that shoot projectiles.
Lets add to that that future weapons would have precise targeting computers built in. Shooting the target with pin point accuracy.
Or kinetic weapons with miniature tracking missiles.
So you see , even if you are finding yourself in position where fiering a weapon is dangerous ( inside a space ship ... etc )
There is surely many weapon alternatives, aside from swords...
Even if there are energy fields, that can reflect energy, antimater or gravity based weapon ray , than surely constructing shield that reflect kinetic energy is simple enough. ( Dune shield is fun concept but no intirely logical. There is no reason why same shield would not be let say 10mm thin and stopping everything. In that way it would not prevent any interaction with surroundings.)
So you see ... primitive weapons like swords are entirely uselles in advanced technical civilisation.
Even the most sophisticate civilizations tend to have traditions or a basis of hand-to-hand combat. Therefore knives, swords, and the like will never likely die from any genre. They become less utilized in heavy combat (war, etc) but specialists who get up close to their target would certainly need some sort of hand to hand, swords and other bladed weapons would then be useful.
Because you run faster with the knife... everyone knows that!
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Actually, the problem with turning a shield all the way up (which could be done) is that it cuts off you off from the surrounding *air*. At one point in the novel, a character in trouble turns his shield way up and can feel the air inside the shield starting to go stale; he has to walk the line between maximum possible protection and suffocating.
Air vent could be easily implemented
Having no knowledge of the actual basic principles of shield operation (being a fictional device, no one does), you have no way of knowing if that statement is true.
How well do swords work in modern militaries? Swords should be secondary, close-quarter combat weapons kind of like the bayonet, not a main choice for anyone but a stealthy character. Even then, a shorter blade, like a knife or a dagger, will work better because it's easier to maneuver.
If the story explains the reason for swords to be there, I guess it could work. Like Dune or Deathstalker or whatever. But I see those as exceptions, not a rule as I prefer Sci-fi that is more realistic.
Edit: Just wanted to point out that Sky Marshals use specialized ammunition that fragments when it impacts the aircraft's wall. So I'm not exactly sure how this whole "piercing space ship hull" thing will work.
There can be plenty of good reasons for blades based on story and setting, the scarcity angle wouldn't be hard to work in.
As for the Sky Marshals, try getting onto a plane in body armor. Those rounds offer almost no penetration, which fine if you're shooting at unprotected passengers. I would guess those rounds would be pretty useless against Hockey or Lacrosse pads.
Fallen earth has swords.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me