Respec policy revealed in leaked footage

markyturnip

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/movie-uk-d3f3d5b9d25afdebe6789a8f57060771.html

 

(sorry.. original link didn't work)

Fkinglinux

link doesnt work, but I wouldn't be surprised if this forum banned bombay movies lol. AoC forums had to eventually

markyturnip

Originally posted by Fkinglinux


link doesnt work, but I wouldn't be surprised if this forum banned bombay movies lol. AoC forums had to eventually

fixed!

Fkinglinux

TBH i don't see how paying cash for full respecs is a problem to begin with, you can always use in game money to do it also :P

neorandom

 aye constant respeccing has been used as an in game money sink for years now by mainstream games.  i mean eve doesnt have it but its like the only game ive played that didnt.  and remember if its early on you can always use alts to test paths and find the one you like right.  cheers.

Abrahmm

I won't be surprised in the least if respecs cost real life money to do. When item shops play a heavy role in your game, this is what happens. What should be available through in game means becomes only available through out of game cash, and you better believe they will be milking their player base for everything they can.

Blurr

Sorry to burst your bubble there Abrahmm but where did you see it said that CO's MT store would play a 'heavy role' in the game? Also, typically, 'item shops' contain gear that you buy to give you some advantage in the game. I highly doubt there will be much of this in CO, simply for the fact that they've said any of it will be obtainable for free in game as well. Why would they put an emphasis on things people could get free anyways?

If anything I expect the items in the MT store to be largely cosmetic stuff like costume options, aka stuff that doesn't change how you play the game.

You have no proof nor basis for your arguments because not only has the game not officially launched yet, they haven't even opened or suggested anything that will be on the MT store. It's not even turned on for those in the headstart.

Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Blurr


Sorry to burst your bubble there Abrahmm but where did you see it said that CO's MT store would play a 'heavy role' in the game? Also, typically, 'item shops' contain gear that you buy to give you some advantage in the game. I highly doubt there will be much of this in CO, simply for the fact that they've said any of it will be obtainable for free in game as well. Why would they put an emphasis on things people could get free anyways?
If anything I expect the items in the MT store to be largely cosmetic stuff like costume options, aka stuff that doesn't change how you play the game.
You have no proof nor basis for your arguments because not only has the game not officially launched yet, they haven't even opened or suggested anything that will be on the MT store. It's not even turned on for those in the headstart.

While I do agree with you that the MT store's role is far from uncertain at this point in time, it is a definate concern that there is no known in-game method of fully respeccing. This suggests that there will either be no full respecs at all, or that it will be a paid feature.

The sad thing is that I can just imagine either option making absolute sense to a business guy:

Game Designer: "No-one will play alts, people will complete the content then get bored!"

Business Guy: "We want them to play alts so they pay longer. Remove their ability to respec."

Game Designer: "Now people will complain that they can't undo a mistake they made 35 levels ago!"

Business Guy: "So put a 'respec potion' in the MT shop at $20."

It sucks, but it makes sense. If you can level one character and completely change everything about them, then there is absolutely no incentive to make alts. In a class-based game, you would have to replay ~200 hours of levelling content if your original char was a ranged DPSer and you decided that you wanted a tank.

I'm hoping that there is a timesinky method to gain access to a full respec, maybe as a repeatable quest reward or high-priced item at end-game, 'cos I don't wanna be too worried to spend points during levelling in case I permanently gimp my character, and I definately do not want to have to pay an MT store to fix a mistake I didn't know I was making 30 levels ago.

neorandom

 i personally dont have a problem leveling up multiple characters to fill multiple roles (in co i guess itld be more or a power set setup but you get the idea).  if you could have 1 max level char and constantly fully reset their sets and whatnot it would probably be hell on the server for one thing with everyone doing that instead of more slowly paced leveling alts, and for me if i enjoy a game i dont usually find it a boreing chore to level an alt anyway, so as long as i can respec a mistake its no biggy, and i guess ill just have to be carefull not to make any massive mistakes that cant be undone, or at least not complain about rerolling the character to fix it =D

banthis

I really dont see a problem with charging real cash for FULL respecs I mean...seriously you know in game wise it would be incredibly expensive and what happens then?  Gold Sellers....they sweep in..selling money so people can buy respecs.  I'd rather people gave that money to Cryptic then some dirty mob grinding gold sellers who kill the economy in the process.

BTW anyone saying the Cash shop plays a major role in the game have never even played Champions.  The cash shop isnt' even up and I've not felt even Once that there's somethign missing from it.  Items are there & crafting often makes the best ones, hell crafting can even make stuff that unlock costume peices for weapons users.   The cash shop is most likely going to be like they said account management (renaming etc), respecs, vanity pets, and costum sets just like CoH's cash shop.   Hell just like how WoW does it except wow doesn't openly call it what it is ..Micro Transactions.   Card game pets & mounts?  Micro Transactions of the worst kind since its a crap shoot atleast in CO you can just flat out buy it. 

Vexe

Originally posted by Abrahmm


I won't be surprised in the least if respecs cost real life money to do. When item shops play a heavy role in your game, this is what happens. What should be available through in game means becomes only available through out of game cash, and you better believe they will be milking their player base for everything they can.

 

Well someone's a negative nancy.

It might be achieved through both ends. It probably won't be expensive either, just there as a option for those who don't wanna spend hours completely changing their character from the ground up. You can expect something like that to be obtained easily. And judging from CRYPTIC's past they will probably include it into the game. I just wish they did it like in CoH where you get 2 respecs for your character and you can do epic task forces and whatnot to get more if need be. Not easy, but fun at least.

This will probably also be one of the only things in the store. From what I hear/see it doesn't seem liek the store will play a big role at all. I don't know where you go that from.

Abrahmm

Originally posted by Blurr


Sorry to burst your bubble there Abrahmm but where did you see it said that CO's MT store would play a 'heavy role' in the game? Also, typically, 'item shops' contain gear that you buy to give you some advantage in the game. I highly doubt there will be much of this in CO, simply for the fact that they've said any of it will be obtainable for free in game as well. Why would they put an emphasis on things people could get free anyways?
If anything I expect the items in the MT store to be largely cosmetic stuff like costume options, aka stuff that doesn't change how you play the game.
You have no proof nor basis for your arguments because not only has the game not officially launched yet, they haven't even opened or suggested anything that will be on the MT store. It's not even turned on for those in the headstart.

 

They have already said that they will offer both cosmetic items and game effecting items in the item shop, but have claimed that game effecting items will be "available through in game means" as said here: forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php

Those items in the store aren't going to be "free" in the game. They have complete control over how hard or easy it is to acquire those items in the game, and you can bet those items won't be easy to acquire, otherwise there would be no reason to put them in the item shop, and they wouldn't make money off of them. 

Whenever you try to force RMT into a subscription game, the RMT is going to play a role, and it will constantly be tempting them to put more stuff in it to make more money. Putting respecs in there just falls in with this line of thought.

Not having the store open in headstart doesn't assure me that the item shop isn't that big of a deal, it actually makes me more weary of it. Why haven't they opened it yet? Makes me think they don't want people to know what will be in it just yet.

The funniest thing is that you have no proof or basis for your arguments either.

Aganazer

Originally posted by Abrahmm

The funniest thing is that you have no proof or basis for your arguments either.

 

You're right about one thing. Trying to speculate on what the MT shop will and won't be like is completely useless. But when it comes down to it, Abrahmm seems to be making more noisy useless posts about what it will be like than anyone else on these forums. I mean... Wow... Everyday you must pad your post count with at least a dozen completely useless speculative posts about something you don't know anything about.

coldfreedom

so what respec will take?

hope not just ingame money cause a non-legit players will always respec and that will decrease of coolness and uniqueness.

 

ps. when i said non-legit players..... i mean those player that illegally buys ingame money. not from the official. if from official market.... then ok. but overall i dont like anything cash shop if cash shop raise strt, def in pvp.

monkey_butt

Simple solution really. If you are not in support or are wary about the pricing model, ..wait. Others will buy CO. Some will dilineate their experiences on forums like this. This is what I am choosing to do. I have heard little positive about MTs. I have never personally experienced them with or w/o a sub. While at first I was alarmed I soon realised I just really didn't know what this meant. I understand the reactions people are having, but.... the fear mongering on one hand, and the misquoting of the scope of MTs as stated by Roper on the other do little to serve anyone's decision on  a purchase.

I know some of you really want to see CO succeed, frankly, I want them all to succeed, competition drives innovation.

I know some of you want to see CO fail, it's pricing model is offensive to you and you don't want this to become the norm in your gaming genre of choice.

However, predicitions are pretty worthless. We've all seen them proved wrong time and time again.

Either buy it now, wait, or move on.

 

Abrahmm

Originally posted by Aganazer

Originally posted by Abrahmm

The funniest thing is that you have no proof or basis for your arguments either.

 

You're right about one thing. Trying to speculate on what the MT shop will and won't be like is completely useless. But when it comes down to it, Abrahmm seems to be making more noisy useless posts about what it will be like than anyone else on these forums. I mean... Wow... Everyday you must pad your post count with at least a dozen completely useless speculative posts about something you don't know anything about.

 

Sorry that I must inject logic and common sense into your "noisy useless" fanboi praise that you litter this board with every day. I'm taking what the devs have said at face value(that I linked in) and pointing out some highly likely courses of action based on their current stance.

By the way, show me those "dozen" posts I make every day about this topic? I maybe make one or two. Sorry they don't praise Cryptic and everything they touch, but I find your need to attack me because I am not in love with Champions Online, or because I don't support incredibly greedy business tactics quite amusing.

I'm very curious to know, which part am I wrong about? What do I know "nothing about"?

Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Abrahmm
Sorry that I must inject logic and common sense

Don't worry, you're not injecting logic and common sense. Just paranoia and conspiracy theory.

You don't like microtransactions. You feel that every company using them is planning to rip you off by trying to force you into buying from them. If they say that game-affecting items will be "available through in game means" then obviously, they are planning on making the "in game means" ridiculous to force you to resort to the microtransactions. Ripping you off is what MTs are for, right?

Your glass is half empty. Mine is half full. If it turns out that Cryptic are planning to pish in it, then I'll damn well just go out and get me another glass. 'til then I'm happy to enjoy the honeymoon period.

 

treysmooth

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Abrahmm
Sorry that I must inject logic and common sense

Don't worry, you're not injecting logic and common sense. Just paranoia and conspiracy theory.

You don't like microtransactions. You feel that every company using them is planning to rip you off by trying to force you into buying from them. If they say that game-affecting items will be "available through in game means" then obviously, they are planning on making the "in game means" ridiculous to force you to resort to the microtransactions. Ripping you off is what MTs are for, right?

Your glass is half empty. Mine is half full. If it turns out that Cryptic are planning to pish in it, then I'll damn well just go out and get me another glass. 'til then I'm happy to enjoy the honeymoon period.

 

 

Actually every game I've ever played that had a cash shop the company WAS trying to rip the customer off with the pricing scheme.  You see when you put RMT into a game you have to look at how you can make the items you are going to sell desirable.  The first thing most do is to make the grind after the "honeymoon" period insane so that eventually you will have to buy xp potions.  Then many make the pvp game a pot spamming fest which makes you have to buy the good pots from the item shop to compete.  In the case of Champion online I can already see the way the respec is going to work and sadly city of hero's had it right and they seem to be leaning in the opposite direction for champions.  

I want the game to be good, I was in beta and preordered.  I loved the open beta but the more I learned about the RMT in game the less I wanted to play.  I tried to cancel my preorder but of course fileplanet said not on a mmo(funny I was in the beta previous to the preorder so I hadn't really received anything from them).  So now I'm stuck with a key come tuesday that I may not even use in the beginning because I am concerned. 

Cryptic has really set  themselves up for longterm failure with this business model imo.  I saw how NCsoft used the rmt in exteel and its funny they would actually overpower items in the cash shop to have the influx of cash then turn around and nerf them only to release the same thing in a new skin weeks later for real money to cash in again.  Funny thing I spent alot of time in that game so maybe I got my money's worth but the thing is I have no desire to play that game now.  Why? well they stopped working on the game what so ever but still take peoples money as if the game has a staff and development, funny thing its been well over 6 months since they did anything to that game.  

My point? if this game doesn't do well I can see them "milking" it with RMT til their next mmo is ready for release.  Basically you would be funding their next project with money that is supposedly going back into champions.  It won't be going back into champions though it will be going toward the next cash scheme that they come up with.  Do I sound jaded?  well after 10 plus years of playing online games I've learned one thing and that is that money trumps all when it comes to how a company will treat you and most of the time the suits in the boardroom are deciding what happens to your fav game(see SWG NGE).

Blurr

Wow Abrahmm, I mean, clearly you're trolling, but okay.

First of all, when I'm talking about a cash store and I use the word "free" that means I'm referring to the fact that it costs no real life money. To even think otherwise is kind of rediculous. Of course it's not going to be "easy" to get free versions of any cash store items. It may even be kind of hard. What this does, and maybe you haven't puzzled it out, is turn the cash store transaction into a time/effort saving transaction. It's like getting express shipping on your mail.

The point I made about the store not being available right now, which you seem to have missed, is the fact that since it isn't available, all these "oh no it's the worst thing evar" comments are completely without basis. There is no way you can know how good or bad it will be. Clearly you're just wanting it to be bad and superimposing your agenda on the topic. I'm sure cryptic could do very well even if they only sold unique costume parts. After all, one of the largest parts about playing these super hero games is the way you look. That's a standard for CO.

I don't have any proof or basis for my arguments? Actually I think I've outlined them quite well, perhaps you simply missed them.

You say you're taking what the devs said at "face value" but I don't think you understand what that means, because you then add in your own interpretation of what that means for the game. You are wrong in that you are acting like what you want to believe is actual fact, when there's no real evidence to prove for or against. You show your hand when you say things like it's an "incredibly greedy business tactic" to have RMTs. This is evidence that you think RMTs are bad, but you claim is proof that cryptic is being overly greedy and so on and so forth. Here's the real question. If you don't like RMTs that's fine, but how could it possibly hurt you if other people have access to it? Or is it just that you think you deserve all the extra content for free?

Xasapis

What extra content for free?

Haha, some of you people are willing to pay for an RMT item mall in a subscription based game. You'll be lucky if there is an actual meaningful core game without the use of a cash shop six months down the line.

Abrahmm

Originally posted by Blurr


Wow Abrahmm, I mean, clearly you're trolling, but okay.

 

Yep, because I'm not a fanboi like you, I must be trolling.

xiirot

I'm not too concerned about it.  Think about Blizzard offering paid-services such as changing your gender and appearance, and name-changes.

 

You don't hear people raising hell over Blizzard charging people to change their appearance, but you hear people complain about Cryptic offering a paid-service to change your skills.

 

A paid-respec in CO is equivalent to a paid-class change in WOW, which Blizzard does not offer.

 

If you don't want to pay to respec, then don't respec.

Abrahmm

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Abrahmm
Sorry that I must inject logic and common sense

Don't worry, you're not injecting logic and common sense. Just paranoia and conspiracy theory.

You don't like microtransactions. You feel that every company using them is planning to rip you off by trying to force you into buying from them. If they say that game-affecting items will be "available through in game means" then obviously, they are planning on making the "in game means" ridiculous to force you to resort to the microtransactions. Ripping you off is what MTs are for, right?

Your glass is half empty. Mine is half full. If it turns out that Cryptic are planning to pish in it, then I'll damn well just go out and get me another glass. 'til then I'm happy to enjoy the honeymoon period.

 

 

No, it's just common sense and logic. The only reason microtransactions are available is to make the game producer more money off of the same product. If items that are available both in game and in the item shop are easy to obtain in game, they would never sell any, defeating the purpose of the item shop to begin with. Therefore, in order to make money off of the item shop, the items available in game must have a certain amount of difficulty/time consumption in order to validate purchasing it in the store. It is common sense really. I'm not saying every item will take years to grind for, but it is really just common sense that those items will have a high enough degree of difficulty in obtaining to push at least some users to buying it in the shop over grinding for it.

And yes, I'm a glass half empty person. That way I'm rarely disappointed, and only pleasantly surprised.

xiirot

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Abrahmm
Sorry that I must inject logic and common sense

Don't worry, you're not injecting logic and common sense. Just paranoia and conspiracy theory.

You don't like microtransactions. You feel that every company using them is planning to rip you off by trying to force you into buying from them. If they say that game-affecting items will be "available through in game means" then obviously, they are planning on making the "in game means" ridiculous to force you to resort to the microtransactions. Ripping you off is what MTs are for, right?

Your glass is half empty. Mine is half full. If it turns out that Cryptic are planning to pish in it, then I'll damn well just go out and get me another glass. 'til then I'm happy to enjoy the honeymoon period.

 

 

No, it's just common sense and logic. The only reason microtransactions are available is to make the game producer more money off of the same product. If items that are available both in game and in the item shop are easy to obtain in game, they would never sell any, defeating the purpose of the item shop to begin with. Therefore, in order to make money off of the item shop, the items available in game must have a certain amount of difficulty/time consumption in order to validate purchasing it in the store. It is common sense really. I'm not saying every item will take years to grind for, but it is really just common sense that those items will have a high enough degree of difficulty in obtaining to push at least some users to buying it in the shop over grinding for it.

And yes, I'm a glass half empty person. That way I'm rarely disappointed, and only pleasantly surprised.

 

Only if the game is p2p plus microtransactions.

CO is a p2p game, however, the item in question is not even an item, it's a service (we are still talking about the respecs, right?).  I don't believe full-respecs can be obtained in-game.  However, you can respec your last ~ten skills that you trained with in-game currency.  Beyond that, you will have to pay.

Abrahmm

Originally posted by xiirot

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Abrahmm
Sorry that I must inject logic and common sense

Don't worry, you're not injecting logic and common sense. Just paranoia and conspiracy theory.

You don't like microtransactions. You feel that every company using them is planning to rip you off by trying to force you into buying from them. If they say that game-affecting items will be "available through in game means" then obviously, they are planning on making the "in game means" ridiculous to force you to resort to the microtransactions. Ripping you off is what MTs are for, right?

Your glass is half empty. Mine is half full. If it turns out that Cryptic are planning to pish in it, then I'll damn well just go out and get me another glass. 'til then I'm happy to enjoy the honeymoon period.

 

 

No, it's just common sense and logic. The only reason microtransactions are available is to make the game producer more money off of the same product. If items that are available both in game and in the item shop are easy to obtain in game, they would never sell any, defeating the purpose of the item shop to begin with. Therefore, in order to make money off of the item shop, the items available in game must have a certain amount of difficulty/time consumption in order to validate purchasing it in the store. It is common sense really. I'm not saying every item will take years to grind for, but it is really just common sense that those items will have a high enough degree of difficulty in obtaining to push at least some users to buying it in the shop over grinding for it.

And yes, I'm a glass half empty person. That way I'm rarely disappointed, and only pleasantly surprised.

 

Only if the game is p2p plus microtransactions.

CO is a p2p game, however, the item in question is not even an item, it's a service (we are still talking about the respecs, right?).  I don't believe full-respecs can be obtained in-game.  However, you can respec your last ~ten skills that you trained with in-game currency.  Beyond that, you will have to pay.

 

I was just talking about the microtransactions in general, not specifically the respec(which I guess I roamed a bit off topic).  CO is a p2p plus microtransactions game. Services are completely different than MT in my book. A character name change, or a server transfer gets a fee not only to get a little extra money for the developer, but also attempt to mitigate use of that service so that you don't have players constantly changing names and servers on a whim. That really doesn't bother me as people abusing those services can have negative effects on players.

A pay to respec service doesn't really benefit the player at all, only the developer. There is no reason why a full respec can't be available through in game means.

Xasapis

Originally posted by xiirot


... Think about Blizzard offering paid-services such as changing your gender and appearance, and name-changes.
...

Interesting comparison between apples and oranges.

How about debating the impact of a real money respec cost on WoW with the impact of a real money respec cost on Champions Online? How do you think a RMT on respec would be received by the WoW community? Do you think it would have been well received? What makes CO respec so different so as to justify an RMT respec cost?

 

[On that same note, a bad spec or changes in the game down the line can break a character rendering him ... less fun (or unplayable for some). A sex or similar such change has no such impact. Thus my comment on your comparing apples with oranges. ]