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Bringing back the good ol days
CDCosta
Member Posts: 90
After reading threads in the FF14 section, I can already see that we have a good deal of intelligent players waiting for ffxiv.
And I do have faith that SE will make another great MMO.
But, with the growing number of 'casual' players, I feel like SE is going to slowly take what makes a game fun, away.hing
Things like training, and camping, the dunes, and other rediculous things that seem like shit at first, but are a blast to talk about and tell stories of later. Its the simple, un-noticed things that make an MMO awesome, and I hope SE doesn't slowly ruin the game like they did with FFXI years down the line.
Not sure how people are suppose to respond to this thread, but i'm sure people are looking for something to disscuss.
Comments
I think there will still be some of that. They've said that it will be smiliar to FFXI. I think when they say it will be more casual they are referring mostly to the fact that people can switch jobs(or whatever they will be called) on the fly thus allowing players to jump in and fill a party. That's what I honestly believe.
I definately agree that they wont make it a casual game, but I heard them mentioning 'No exp loss on death', and 'we were thinking of putting in the level sync', and just made me wonder if they will slowly change a (hoping is going to be a great game) with things like, exp cuts, and easier to get items, or getting rid of Trains.
The training at release was insane, lol. After they toned it down a bit later, it wasn't so bad in the wide open areas but I remember the days when you couldn't walk into the front of the one tunnel where the dragon was on the second level (don't think it was Kuftal).
You'd run in after being chased from that desert region after whacking some Dhalmels or Scorpions then running for fun and whammo! smack dab into a pack of crabs, LOL! Then you kept zoning back and forth hoping to keep your healer alive long enough to rez you all.
You are right; in the beginning it kind of sucked because you didn't understand why just getting to a camp you'd lose an hour's worth of exp before you killed one thing. But later it got fun when healers got the good rez. Sometimes you died on purpose just to give the healer something to do while people went AFK for a body break.
I really miss a lot of that. No game since has had that rush of death just going into a place. You go in and mobs are on Valium or none ever go to the end of the zone. Die and you just go back to camp and pay 5 shillings to fix your hat, lol.
Being a BST, I used to have fun killing trains for people who were stuck, or when a party got too many adds I'd just walk over and take the extras away. That was cool to see them all saluting after that. Get some rezzes once you died as well.
But I must say dropping some trains on those farmers was the best. Nothing like dropping Black Mandra after Black Mandra on those guys and laughing hysterically after they were kill stealing. Or watching those two/three that used to farm that Bat boss over in Ifrits (grrr) then rip everyone off on the auction house. Bats made short work of them.
BST was fun to do some damage to farmers.
"TO MICHAEL!"
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
/cry hears to hoping that SE makes a cool design where the players WSIMike is talking about find themselves in a whole different gameplay amongst people like themselves and other players play and socialize in a far different way.
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
I agree Mike, it is indeed the players that encourage SE to slowly ruin the game.
I just hope SE will be smarter this time and not give into the players who want it easier.
They will for sure deliver a great game at launch, and that's saying something since all other MMOs right now are hand holding, 'casual' games.
LOL
Don't forget about the crawlers next, training a soilder or knight crawler to the zone and watch that place fall apart for hours and dead bodies everywhere. The bats at Gartilage Citidel(sp) was another classic train zone. Man those were the good ol days.
Last I read there was exp loss in the game, but that they were considering removing it or adjusting it. I've not read anything about lvl sync in the game just the vague idea that a wide range of skill lvls in a party will not stop any member from gaining skill progress.
Finding the quickest/easiest way to progress has been pretty much standard since like atari. I think it's the game developers burden to design a game that will stand up to that kind of attention from players and remain a challenge. I left FFXI quite a few years ago and reading about some of the changes they have made over the years has caused my eyebrows to rise a few times. Fields of Valor and lvl sync are just things I would never have imagined in the game while I was playing and fundamentally changed the game to where the FFXI that I knew, doesn't really exist anymore. But I give credit to SE for sticking with their "hardcore" game for as long as they did, and some other kind of credit for trying to find some middle ground, after people like me who, while big fans of the game, had to eventually leave because spending 8hours a day in game just isn't feasible forever.
I'm hoping that SE can find a way to keep XIV challenging without the massive time commitment. Running down to the dunes was a challenge, and it could be fun and exciting and it could also be very frustrating and could even be a total waste of time. Requiring players to risk spending 20-30min just to maybe make some progress isn't going to fly anymore, and it probably shouldn't. I'm hoping that with the guild leve system that players will be able to choose the difficulty they wish to experience and remove the time sink with the warp crystals. Most games these days, even the so called "casual" ones, basically only challenge you with a time commitment, SE has done more then that in the past and I expect they will with XIV as well.
I would like to know what Zorak thinks games can use to challenge a person , aside from time committment and really crazy hard bosses. In todays world of instant access to information on the internet, people will find most things in games easy enough, its the time to work at something with patience in FF11 that proved a persons excellence. Skill is usually a small enough learning curve in an MMO... exccept in Darkfall where I heard the UI has made it an extinct concept :P jk
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
Good ol' Garbage Shitadel, lol.
Things like having others help you to get past the doors are missing in too many other games. It could be a pain when doing RDM gear quests (looking for those chests!), but overall I'd gladly go through mechanisms like that again. They required TEAMWORK, you couldn't just solo this or that everyplace and bust your way into every zone. Today's games are all about the individual and I hope areas like that and others are just as closed off to a large extent to soloers.
The fact that so many mobs worked so independantly or co-dependantly (such as crawlers) made that game super fun. Sometimes you'd forget what zone and see a different type of crawler in a new area and it reminded me of corals snakes, band snakes and California king snakes. Subtle differences but you had to pay attention to every zone in FFXI or you'd be in trouble.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Good ol' Garbage Shitadel, lol.
Things like having others help you to get past the doors are missing in too many other games. It could be a pain when doing RDM gear quests (looking for those chests!), but overall I'd gladly go through mechanisms like that again. They required TEAMWORK, you couldn't just solo this or that everyplace and bust your way into every zone. Today's games are all about the individual and I hope areas like that and others are just as closed off to a large extent to soloers.
The fact that so many mobs worked so independantly or co-dependantly (such as crawlers) made that game super fun. Sometimes you'd forget what zone and see a different type of crawler in a new area and it reminded me of corals snakes, band snakes and California king snakes. Subtle differences but you had to pay attention to every zone in FFXI or you'd be in trouble.
+1
I loved the Teamwork factor in XI maybe because I had a group of friends who were always willing to help. In
By this thread alone, I can tell the FF14 community is going to be great.
and maybe this time around they wont listen to the complainers :P
Well as some others have basically pointed out, mobs that can actually kill you helps a lot. Way too many games where you can just auto-run through a whole zone, as long as you don't get stuck on something and never worry about dying and then even if you do die you can just respawn maybe even closer to where you were going. ha I think FFXI *forced* players to pay attention because there was real danger most everywhere, and even an experienced group of well geared players could get a bad pull and die; this meant that that players had to actually learn how to get the most out of their job. Sure there was a lot of time involved but if you made it to 75 in FFXI it was because you were at the very least a decent player, same can't be said for most other MMO's around.
I think the instant internet information is more a reference to wow style raid encounters where you basically figure out the "trick" to the mob and game over. I don't remember it being so easy in FFXI even if you knew the fight inside and out. But anyways, here's to hoping that SE realizes that "challenge" is a game feature that matters.
This is how i see the entire game design.
Instead of having levels you now have the ONLY reason for playing is to have weapon skillups.I mean if that does not dumb down a game ,i don't know what does.In most games you grind away levels,here again you grind away weapon skills.
The thing is this,weapons had to be skilled up in FFXI already,so there is NOTHING new here at all.They have actually removed most the game by doing this,it is VERY clear that this is a ploy to make a much simpler game a much easier to design,taking far less effort to make.
Before players would ask,what level is your whm or blm.Now it is going to be what level is your sword?lmao it even sounds lame."Group looking for level 5-6 sword users for skillup party",the most boring part of FFXi and it will become the main reason for playing ,,sad.
how will the game handle groups of players that have other maxed weapons ?say they all want to raise their swords from a level 1 rank,but all there other skills are level 10 rank?They are going to have a quite easy time leveling that sword when they can utilize rank 10 enfeebs on the mob,because their other weapons ,such as the staff are maxed out.
They CANNOT put limitations on players weapons by not allowing skillups for the other users,because that puts the game right back to stage one creating party hassles.It will also hamper a player that is soloing,if he cannot get skillups on his low rank sword,just because he used his high rank staff for healing ,it creates and even worse setup than before.
I think the whole limitation thing will be a design based similar to the Dancer[ffxi],you will not be able to do anything w/o TP,so this will iimit switching back and forth.All it really does is counteract what they are trying to accomplish,and i believe 100% this is how the system will work.The other facet,will be how you engage the mob,to get the skillups you will have to engage on your low rank sword and that will put an auto lock on your other weapon skills.So say you are locked in at rank 1 sword,all your other weapon skills will be locked in at level 1 rank,even though they may be much higher.This is the only way it can work and still have a decently suspect combat system.
You will have to ask yourself "why am i logging into the game?" the only answer will be "to level up my sword",it is going to be a flavor that gets old real fast.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Instead of having levels you now have the ONLY reason for playing is to have weapon skillups.I mean if that does not dumb down a game ,i don't know what does.In most games you grind away levels,here again you grind away weapon skills.
Since the rest of your post pretty much hinges on this first paragraph, I have to ask...
Do you *really* believe that the "only reason for playing is to have weapon skillups"? Really?
You don't think those developed skills will be utilized in other aspects of the game? Like... quests, missions, side activities... and so on?
Using FFXI as an example...
There are myriad activities, such as Assault, Einjerjiar, Dynamis, BCNMs, ZNMs, Sky, Sea... and so on. You realize you can't do any of that unless you've leveled your jobs and skills, right? So... no... it's not "only about leveling skills". It's about developing a character - through leveling skills and other means - so you can then participate in other content the game offers. Leveling jobs/skills is a means to an end... not an end in itself.
There's no reason to believe that FFXIV won't offer a similar experience.
If your statement, highlighted in orange above, is how you perceive the game - that it's the "only reason to play" - then I'll say the limitation is with you, not the game. Like in so many similar cases... the "problem" is self-imposed, and you're projecting it on to the developers.
To me (and, apparently, to many others judging by how many do all those activities), leveling/skilling up is merely a *part* of the overall game that allows me to participate in all the other content along the way. Of all my time in FFXI, I would say that leveling up jobs/skills accounted for about ~40% overall. The other ~60% has been doing a variety of other activities - most of which leveling up those jobs/skills gave me the ability to do.
I have no reason to doubt that FFXIV will be the same. I think your pessimism is unfounded and unreasonable.
Then again, you've been down on this game for a while now, always fishing for issues to rant about. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised you're doing the same here.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I loved beastmasters. I never played one (never was one for pet classes) but, they were respected, and had power, and people feared that. They added nice flavor to the game. A badass solo class in a pve game based upon grouping. But, I saw lots of bsts grouping together... interesting, ability to MPK , everyone bitched and moaned and see what happened?
The glory days (to me at least) were the 2 years after N/A release, when all the gaijin had to play catch-up ball after an j/p release ~ before the great ranger nerf, before the monk nerf, bst nerf, basically before they started to nerf folks and take out trains and ways to mpk players. It was always great to see people find loopholes and mpk anyways...lol
level sync - lol , I remeber people getting kicked out of parties as soon as they dinged out of the party's "hot spot" level zoning...because they were that nazi about getting the best exp per hr.
I wish SE would take the mistakes from xi and build with those mistakes with xiv and then let the players evolve the game a little bit, less nerfs, but gradual change is expected.
I cried when they nerfed my BST charm.
Sigh... A progress bar is a progress bar is a progress bar. It can be called skills or exp, it can be attached to your weapon or your toe ring fact is you will still be advancing your character and that's the most fundamental part of any MMO, XIV is going to have it just like every other game.