And this is why every nearly every MMO that has come out in the last 4-5 years is crap. People don't want to spend the time to level their character, they don't want to have down time where people actually talk to each other, they don't want to have to wait for an item to drop. They want a single player game where everything is easy to get but they can show all the other people playing their own single player games how awesome they are by being the 100,000th person to get uber item X. Crap for you. Fun for a lot more peole. I can't believe people defend down time. If you think staring at a spell book is gameplay, i think a wall will just be fine. Thank you developers are not listening to people you. Even SOE changed that staring at the spell book thing.
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
And this is why every nearly every MMO that has come out in the last 4-5 years is crap. People don't want to spend the time to level their character, they don't want to have down time where people actually talk to each other, they don't want to have to wait for an item to drop. They want a single player game where everything is easy to get but they can show all the other people playing their own single player games how awesome they are by being the 100,000th person to get uber item X. Crap for you. Fun for a lot more peole. I can't believe people defend down time. If you think staring at a spell book is gameplay, i think a wall will just be fine. Thank you developers are not listening to people you. Even SOE changed that staring at the spell book thing.
And this is why every nearly every MMO that has come out in the last 4-5 years is crap. People don't want to spend the time to level their character, they don't want to have down time where people actually talk to each other, they don't want to have to wait for an item to drop. They want a single player game where everything is easy to get but they can show all the other people playing their own single player games how awesome they are by being the 100,000th person to get uber item X. Crap for you. Fun for a lot more peole. I can't believe people defend down time. If you think staring at a spell book is gameplay, i think a wall will just be fine. Thank you developers are not listening to people you. Even SOE changed that staring at the spell book thing.
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I don't need the game to bascially force me to stop playing and do nothing to socialize. See thats the difference. I socialize and made friends in WOW despite not having to sit around and do ntohing and stare into space. How sad for you that you can't play a game and chat at the same time or just choose to stop playing and chat just because you feel like it. EQ wasn't called whack a mole for nothing. Its because it was mindless killing the exact same mobs in the exact same spot for hours every day for weeks on end, barely accoimplishing anything.
If the original EQ didn't force all the nerds to sit around in a sewing circle and say hi, none of you would've said a word to eachother
Originally posted by Josher If the original EQ didn't force all the nerds to sit around in a sewing circle and say hi, none of you would've said a word to eachother
Well, there we have it. The point we all agree.
(and not on the nerd thing either, thats a given.)
EQ forced people to 'sit around and say hi'. That probably should be considered a basic truth. I agree totally.
Forcing people to sit around and talk, as opposed to forcing them to run around without time to talk, is a big part of why classic EQ is loved by so many even now. It is largely what, alongside co-op dependency, challenege, and risk vs reward, built community, created realtionships beyond immediate need, and bonded friends.
I think the meaning of the pain gets lost to some. Sure it was painful at times. Long travel, harsh death penalty, high level mobs in noob zones, zone lines and medding. What these "horrible" things did was bring people together and build communities. If you had to sit and med for 10 minutes after a fight you passed time by getting to know the people you grouped with. You sat at zone lines talking to people. Boat rides...yup you talked to people. In EQ people knew each other. If you needed a good tank, you knew them. The gear was always secondary to me in EQ. I cared more about getting a fun group of people and doing my role to the best of my ability.
These massively multiplayer online solo games now don't offer these things. Well they do, but it's more convenient to go your own way. Really DAoC was the last game I remember where fun communities like that were built. I take it back SWG had some great people playing the first year or two also.
I loved EQ up until around the velious expansion .. EQ simply was great because noone knew any better back then but it soon changed intoa community of loot farming users trying to have the best gear with little REAL socialising left.. the first months in EQ will alway sbe the best..a totally niaeve customer base who had never seen this kind of game really a first of its kind that spawned rubbish like WoW afterwards...once we all became pros and you camped 6 hours for a bubble or two of experience at level 51 the game lost its magic. EQ would not be "successful" today because the market has changed it would be a niche game that would appeal to many older MMO players but todays markey is saturated by post WoW players who would never tolerate a harder game ..this is because MMOs used to target niche markets and today are really trying to mass market their products (and thus dumb them down )
in short, MMO companies are targeting spoiled brats who are young and dont know what it means to work for something
Don't forget the adults that don't have the play time they used to.
Because everyone who plays MMOs that they pay monthly for wish for their game to end really fast. It is ironic that people shout for more content but then shout if the game last too long. You pay monthly, the game should be a "EVER"quest. The journey is always more fun than setting at the end.
And this is why every nearly every MMO that has come out in the last 4-5 years is crap. People don't want to spend the time to level their character, they don't want to have down time where people actually talk to each other, they don't want to have to wait for an item to drop. They want a single player game where everything is easy to get but they can show all the other people playing their own single player games how awesome they are by being the 100,000th person to get uber item X. Crap for you. Fun for a lot more peole. I can't believe people defend down time. If you think staring at a spell book is gameplay, i think a wall will just be fine. Thank you developers are not listening to people you. Even SOE changed that staring at the spell book thing.
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I would also like to add that there was no down time if you played like you were suppose to play. You worked as a group and if played efficently and well there was no downtime. The only people complaining of downtime are the ones who didn't play correctly.
can you believe this i saw a lot of game and of all the game i saw ,played hated etc,only one call me as strongly as wow did when i began playing it 3 years ago, EQ2.i got war i got aion beta etc i got most of the game popular (not eq1 im sorry didnt think it was still working lol might be a good idea for me to try it.im not that good with computer and the hardest part was setting up my graphic ,after a long while i found i could make my graphic card replace all setting wich i did, and men this game look good
its still a ressurce hog, but i got an old amd dual core 4600 with 3. somethingf of rame did like eq suggested and deactivated sthe thing that use the hard drive as memory(dont do this with less then 3 gig of memry(vista)
and men i can say eq2 is my best gaming experience yet
some speak about ultima online even yesterday,i check lol surprise of my life after 4 year they release a new expension sept 8 2009 .new race new graphic choice(otional you decide it doesnt cost more)etc
i think i ll buy that it a classic i keep earing about and uo went back to what fans wanted
the thing i found out is some game are so focused on graphic the game is just an empty shell,almost no content .no mystery just easy mode stuff
i thing easy mode is good but offering hard mode server is the future also ,
And this is why every nearly every MMO that has come out in the last 4-5 years is crap. People don't want to spend the time to level their character, they don't want to have down time where people actually talk to each other, they don't want to have to wait for an item to drop. They want a single player game where everything is easy to get but they can show all the other people playing their own single player games how awesome they are by being the 100,000th person to get uber item X. Crap for you. Fun for a lot more peole. I can't believe people defend down time. If you think staring at a spell book is gameplay, i think a wall will just be fine. Thank you developers are not listening to people you. Even SOE changed that staring at the spell book thing.
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I would also like to add that there was no down time if you played like you were suppose to play. You worked as a group and if played efficently and well there was no downtime. The only people complaining of downtime are the ones who didn't play correctly.
...and consequently the only ones who complain about no community in WOW are those who couldn't find friends, so it goes both ways. They didn't play correctly, which is amazing since people who played EQ should've been very skilled in communication. But I'm guessing they came off as elitist A-holes instead, then wondered why everyone ignored them=) Of course it was the games fault, hehe. Its funny because 1/2 the people in the guild I was in most of the time I played were made up of former EQ and DAOC vets who were tired of their older MMOs. For those that couldn't easily find nice people to play with in WOW or any newer MMO, take a look in the mirror. Its probably not everyone around you that were the idiots=)
And this is why every nearly every MMO that has come out in the last 4-5 years is crap. People don't want to spend the time to level their character, they don't want to have down time where people actually talk to each other, they don't want to have to wait for an item to drop. They want a single player game where everything is easy to get but they can show all the other people playing their own single player games how awesome they are by being the 100,000th person to get uber item X. Crap for you. Fun for a lot more peole. I can't believe people defend down time. If you think staring at a spell book is gameplay, i think a wall will just be fine. Thank you developers are not listening to people you. Even SOE changed that staring at the spell book thing.
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I would also like to add that there was no down time if you played like you were suppose to play. You worked as a group and if played efficently and well there was no downtime. The only people complaining of downtime are the ones who didn't play correctly.
But I'm guessing they came off as elitist A-holes instead, then wondered why everyone ignored them=) Of course it was the games fault, hehe
take a look in the mirror. Its probably not everyone around you that were the idiots=)
Why have you reduced talking about a game down to personal insults?
And this is why every nearly every MMO that has come out in the last 4-5 years is crap. People don't want to spend the time to level their character, they don't want to have down time where people actually talk to each other, they don't want to have to wait for an item to drop. They want a single player game where everything is easy to get but they can show all the other people playing their own single player games how awesome they are by being the 100,000th person to get uber item X. Crap for you. Fun for a lot more peole. I can't believe people defend down time. If you think staring at a spell book is gameplay, i think a wall will just be fine. Thank you developers are not listening to people you. Even SOE changed that staring at the spell book thing.
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I would also like to add that there was no down time if you played like you were suppose to play. You worked as a group and if played efficently and well there was no downtime. The only people complaining of downtime are the ones who didn't play correctly.
...and consequently the only ones who complain about no community in WOW are those who couldn't find friends, so it goes both ways. They didn't play correctly, which is amazing since people who played EQ should've been very skilled in communication. But I'm guessing they came off as elitist A-holes instead, then wondered why everyone ignored them=) Of course it was the games fault, hehe. Its funny because 1/2 the people in the guild I was in most of the time I played were made up of former EQ and DAOC vets who were tired of their older MMOs. For those that couldn't easily find nice people to play with in WOW or any newer MMO, take a look in the mirror. Its probably not everyone around you that were the idiots=)
I never said that I liked or dislike WoW. On the contrary I enjoyed WoW as well. I said nothing negative as you took it. The fact is there was a correct way to play Everquest. If you did not play the game correctly then you sit waiting for mana. There is a correct way to play WoW and I also enjoyed that game very much also. Don't assume you may get it wrong. I have nothing against what WoW was in the beginning. I personally do not like the current game nor do I like the current EQ game, but both were great games at their peak. Everquest died for me after Velious and WoW died for me when they released Burning Crusade.
Actually EQ was the worst thing to hit the MMO genre. It introduced the restrictive class level nightmare.
It was easy mode for the masses. They did not have to think about developing their character, it was all done through the class structure for them.
You really need to get a better perspective of the genre.
So much better to be limited to 1-3 templates instead, right? UO and AC both had a pathetically limited number of viable choices when it all came down to it. Better to have 8 working classes than 50 skills, all of which only a handfull were actually usefull. Class systems allow MORE choices and more balance, which is why those systems prevailed. Being able to choose any skill but be gimped compared to the next guy doesn't make for balanced play. Good systems get emulated. Broken ones do not. Skill systems work great in single player games. Theres no doubt about it. But they're horrible in MMOs. They look great on paper but never pan out in practice.
UO is horrible in terms of progression design. Everyone is a tank mage .. a lot LESS variety than EQ. EQ classes are much better.
You have to laugh at posters that try to defend all their choices being made for them. To set you straight UO had endless varieties of character skill combos that were quite viable. Skill systems reflect what happens in the real world, class systems are just a figment of someone's imagination. Skill systems also actually give you choice in how you mold your avatar. In class systems you are usually limited to the one build where your class is viable, so you end up with thousands of copycat builds. How boring. Running around with blinders on is a very boring life, take them off and find out how much fun you are missing.
actually what made eq2 great was 1 thing i havent seen mentioned yet(only read first few pages) but it was actually the player maturity level. i started playing back in 99, so lets see i was 13 years old, but apparently 13 back then is not like 13 now. kids now want every thing handed to them in a game, if a game even shows the slighest of difficulty people seem to want to bitch about it, and if they dont get their own way they quit for an easier game *cough*wow*cough* and it seems like in games that require little to no thinking the more noobs you see, especially towards end game progression. hell in eq1 you didnt have a bunch of fricking kids spaming and talking jibberish all day(ok, maby very few, but not many) but then again i guess there wernt as many kids in mmorpgs back then.
I remember when i quit EQ i started waiting for a game to come out that had many of the features i liked about EQ. Races playing different from each other, racial starting towns. Different and fun character classes. Large world. Underwater dungeons.
Many games came out after that, but none really matched in features to EQ. The first game to match the features was WoW. No wonder it did well.
actually what made eq2 great was 1 thing i havent seen mentioned yet(only read first few pages) but it was actually the player maturity level. i started playing back in 99, so lets see i was 13 years old, but apparently 13 back then is not like 13 now. kids now want every thing handed to them in a game, if a game even shows the slighest of difficulty people seem to want to bitch about it, and if they dont get their own way they quit for an easier game *cough*wow*cough* and it seems like in games that require little to no thinking the more noobs you see, especially towards end game progression. hell in eq1 you didnt have a bunch of fricking kids spaming and talking jibberish all day(ok, maby very few, but not many) but then again i guess there wernt as many kids in mmorpgs back then.
very true, this was definitely a factor in EQ2, and even more so in EQ1.
in '99 a lot fewer people had PCs, let alone internet connectivity, and a minority of even them gamed online, let alone were interested in using their CC to play a fantasy game that they had to pay a monthly sub for...
It's no wonder that classic EQ was more adult. It was, in the main, adults that had realistic access to it.
When WoW blew the doors off this hobby, taking it into the mainstream, at around the same time we were seeing a boom in general internet use, the MMORPG gaming culture in general changed. People from of different age groups who were used to different games, and therefore had wildly different expectations of what a mmorpg 'should' be, and the devs listened to them because they represented the big payoff.
It was a classic case of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs though. Instead of having eggs for years, the devs (and their shareholders and accountants) went for a one off quick feast, and thats what has got us where we are today.
It's taken a long time to see a lot of people to start to come around to the idea that these games are about community again- I remember a time not so long ago on these boards where I felt like a very lone voice. Thank god though we seem to be seeing a change in general attitude and the understanding that MMORPGs are a unique type of game, as much as PnP RPGs are, and should be treated as such.
At last people are seeming to see that without community, challenge, and risk vs reward achievement, these games are nothing.
Here is why the original EQ has not been topped for over 10 years.. You couldn't do hardly anything solo - You had to mostly rely on others - Almost every aspect of the game encouraged players to work together. The game was difficult and unforgiving - Quests and zones were difficult and unforgiving, so people got satisfaction by remembering where and what killed them before and avoiding them, then later camping them - People got satisfaction by completing hard quests - People remembered their experiences as generally awesome because they were on the edge of their seat from all of the dangers and unforgiving deaths. Players regard each other highly because of the camaraderie associated with sharing dangerous and dramatic experiences with others. No maps and very little guides made groups genuinely explore. No quest logs, map markers and compass markers. You want to know which way you are facing you had to either have a compass, have a sense heading spell, have good sense heading skill, or drop a sword and see which way it points =D Players almost certainly get lost, or have trouble finding their corpses at some point, along with the fact that leveling was a slow process, you come to know the land like the back of your hand. Who can draw a detailed map of burning steppes from memory? Even though you may have spent alot of time there or traveled through it numerous times? you cannot truly get lost in wow, and even if you did purposely you wouldn't lose anything, and so there is no real reason to learn it unless you happen to spend enough time there. The main ingredient was teamwork and social interaction. Everything from getting a bind, port, buffs, revive, corpse summon, and most quests all required interaction with other players. Before the bazaar there was much player interaction with player commerce. Every expansion that SoE added after they lost the vision gave players the power to do that which they used to rely on others, unti now, where the only people who play EQ are the ones who use bots and multiple accounts simultaniously, and guess what? It's dead. I believe EQ was built on the simple vision of player interaction. All the MMOs out there today, including modern EQ seems to avoid this like the plague, calculating that the majority of the market likes to solo. I say the entirety of the market will solo if the option is given to them, just because it is easier. That doesn't make a legend of a game like classic EQ was.
Adding to that:
1) you could chat while fighting, since autoattack was pretty much 90% of the damage down, making socializing not only necessary, but also easy;
2) there was no short-task to accomplish solo (kill 10 boars, kill 20 birds) therefore the only action that players could get involved into day to day was grouping and killing mobs together (the so called "forced grouping"), putting even more focus on socializing and getting together;
3) you didn't have to farm for anything (materials, gold - ok a bit to lvl up tradeskills, but not that much and at the time tradeskillw ere pretty weak therefore not necessary to lvl) making your daily routine more about hanging out with guildmates or friends and having fun together;
4) Combat was long, making it less twitchy than the current n°1, and more relaxed;
5) The world was overall very deep and profound, making it even more immersive;
As i said numerous time, WOW is better in every single way than EQ, yet it was the gameplay flaws of EQ which made it more engaging and social-friendly than WoW. Talk about a paradox..
I loved EQ, but i coudldn't play it today.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I enjoyed EQ more than any game to date. Maybe it was because it was my first and you always have fond memories of your first. Maybe its because it wasn't so corrupted as today's MMO Market. If your old school, then you will remember "The Vision" as Brad Mcquaid said. They were trying to build a dream game, but it went to hell when 989 studios sold out to SOE. I was a Volunteer Guide(GM) for almost 5yrs, so I got to see the a lot more than the average player. When you answer a petition from someone who is completely lost. it makes you laugh a little, but you don't ever see that in todays MMO because there are websites and mods that do all the work for you. When you dealt with players issues all the time, you got to see exactly how naive the players were back then. Someone sells a piece of shit sword on accident and is so upset they are literally in tears over it... its crazy... but you don't see that today. Todays player is nothing more than a loot whore. If they cant get PH4T L00TZ then they want no part of it.
I truly hope that someone will find a way to bring a game to the market that has the ability to change the current mind set. Make it more about the Game and the people and less about the Loot.
And this is why every nearly every MMO that has come out in the last 4-5 years is crap. People don't want to spend the time to level their character, they don't want to have down time where people actually talk to each other, they don't want to have to wait for an item to drop. They want a single player game where everything is easy to get but they can show all the other people playing their own single player games how awesome they are by being the 100,000th person to get uber item X. Crap for you. Fun for a lot more peole. I can't believe people defend down time. If you think staring at a spell book is gameplay, i think a wall will just be fine. Thank you developers are not listening to people you. Even SOE changed that staring at the spell book thing.
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I remember that and it was awful. Woohoo .. now i can stare at a static scene, as opposed to my spellbook.
I socialize with my guildies EVERYDAY. We do chats and vent. 10 min down-time between trash pull is just STUPID. If i want to spend 1 min play, 10 min chatting, i will use MSN, AIM or what not. A MMO is GAME. We are supposed to be in gameplay, not a chat box.
It is extremely silly to give excuse to BORING gameplay mechanics and chalk it up to need to socialize. When we want to socialize, we socialize. We don't do it because a GAME forces us to look at at static screen for 10 min.
Oh, you are sad abt today's MMO. I am not. I guess you can always quit and leave us to have fun. It is not like there are not enough people in MMOs.
If you loved EQ in the past. Try it out again. Seriously it's a really easy to get into game now days.
Roll on the Mayong server ( start at 51 with 50 AA ) and you can solo fairly well until you can afford to hire a Mercenary, in which you can solo extremely well.
If soloing isn't your bag, I know I hate soloing. You can join up with people in Hotzones, there are always groups going on Mayong. If you need a healer for your grp, u can use a merc. If you need a tank, you can use a merc. No more sitting and waiting forever for a cleric to come along. They are very good at what they do.
I can't play WoW type games for more than 30 mins at a time, they are so boring. EQ however I played for 12 hours straight yesterday, went from 51 - 60. Loved every second of it.
I think the meaning of the pain gets lost to some. Sure it was painful at times. Long travel, harsh death penalty, high level mobs in noob zones, zone lines and medding. What these "horrible" things did was bring people together and build communities. If you had to sit and med for 10 minutes after a fight you passed time by getting to know the people you grouped with. You sat at zone lines talking to people. Boat rides...yup you talked to people. In EQ people knew each other. If you needed a good tank, you knew them. The gear was always secondary to me in EQ. I cared more about getting a fun group of people and doing my role to the best of my ability.
These massively multiplayer online solo games now don't offer these things. Well they do, but it's more convenient to go your own way. Really DAoC was the last game I remember where fun communities like that were built. I take it back SWG had some great people playing the first year or two also.
Nope. The "meaning" of these pain is just that developers did NOT know better then. It has NO meaning.
This mysterious community talk is just silly. I played with guildies today in WOW. I played with people in EQ 10 years back. There is little difference. In fact, it is EASIER to get groups TODAY in WOW than 10 years ago in EQ because you have better software tools, *and* dungeons/raids are designed to be shorter and so easier to scheduled.
I think the meaning of the pain gets lost to some. Sure it was painful at times. Long travel, harsh death penalty, high level mobs in noob zones, zone lines and medding. What these "horrible" things did was bring people together and build communities. If you had to sit and med for 10 minutes after a fight you passed time by getting to know the people you grouped with. You sat at zone lines talking to people. Boat rides...yup you talked to people. In EQ people knew each other. If you needed a good tank, you knew them. The gear was always secondary to me in EQ. I cared more about getting a fun group of people and doing my role to the best of my ability.
These massively multiplayer online solo games now don't offer these things. Well they do, but it's more convenient to go your own way. Really DAoC was the last game I remember where fun communities like that were built. I take it back SWG had some great people playing the first year or two also.
Nope. The "meaning" of these pain is just that developers did NOT know better then. It has NO meaning.
This mysterious community talk is just silly. I played with guildies today in WOW. I played with people in EQ 10 years back. There is little difference. In fact, it is EASIER to get groups TODAY in WOW than 10 years ago in EQ because you have better software tools, *and* dungeons/raids are designed to be shorter and so easier to scheduled.
Nariuss, some people like differnt things. Your outlook on MMORPGs is not the same as everyones, so don't speak like it is.
I think the meaning of the pain gets lost to some. Sure it was painful at times. Long travel, harsh death penalty, high level mobs in noob zones, zone lines and medding. What these "horrible" things did was bring people together and build communities. If you had to sit and med for 10 minutes after a fight you passed time by getting to know the people you grouped with. You sat at zone lines talking to people. Boat rides...yup you talked to people. In EQ people knew each other. If you needed a good tank, you knew them. The gear was always secondary to me in EQ. I cared more about getting a fun group of people and doing my role to the best of my ability.
These massively multiplayer online solo games now don't offer these things. Well they do, but it's more convenient to go your own way. Really DAoC was the last game I remember where fun communities like that were built. I take it back SWG had some great people playing the first year or two also.
Nope. The "meaning" of these pain is just that developers did NOT know better then. It has NO meaning.
This mysterious community talk is just silly. I played with guildies today in WOW. I played with people in EQ 10 years back. There is little difference. In fact, it is EASIER to get groups TODAY in WOW than 10 years ago in EQ because you have better software tools, *and* dungeons/raids are designed to be shorter and so easier to scheduled.
Yet, while WoW is a superior game, it's not all that much more of a thrill... too much convenience eventually kills the fun somehow, because everything you could have done yourself, the game does it for you.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
EQ was topped same year it released by ASHERONS CALL it was superior to EQ in everyway.
EQ=Mainstream
AC=Sandbox with a superior DARKTIDE SERVER!!!
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Nope. The "meaning" of these pain is just that developers did NOT know better then. It has NO meaning. This mysterious community talk is just silly. I played with guildies today in WOW. I played with people in EQ 10 years back. There is little difference. In fact, it is EASIER to get groups TODAY in WOW than 10 years ago in EQ because you have better software tools, *and* dungeons/raids are designed to be shorter and so easier to scheduled.
Nariuss, some people like differnt things. Your outlook on MMORPGs is not the same as everyones, so don't speak like it is.
Sure. People like different things. However, there are certain things that is so undesirable that it is quite improbable to find people who like it. I would argue that staring at a static image for 10 min is one of them. I suppose there are people who like to stare at art for hours too.
I suppose there may be 10 people in the world who like to stare at a static picture while chatting. Oh if you are one of them, i would suggest staring at the wall *and* chat on MSN. There is a larger community on MSN than on EQ now so i am sure you will enjoy "building a community" very much.
Comments
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
i play eq2 and not a lot of new game beats it
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I don't need the game to bascially force me to stop playing and do nothing to socialize. See thats the difference. I socialize and made friends in WOW despite not having to sit around and do ntohing and stare into space. How sad for you that you can't play a game and chat at the same time or just choose to stop playing and chat just because you feel like it. EQ wasn't called whack a mole for nothing. Its because it was mindless killing the exact same mobs in the exact same spot for hours every day for weeks on end, barely accoimplishing anything.
If the original EQ didn't force all the nerds to sit around in a sewing circle and say hi, none of you would've said a word to eachother
Well, there we have it. The point we all agree.
(and not on the nerd thing either, thats a given.)
EQ forced people to 'sit around and say hi'. That probably should be considered a basic truth. I agree totally.
Forcing people to sit around and talk, as opposed to forcing them to run around without time to talk, is a big part of why classic EQ is loved by so many even now. It is largely what, alongside co-op dependency, challenege, and risk vs reward, built community, created realtionships beyond immediate need, and bonded friends.
I won't argue with that.
I think the meaning of the pain gets lost to some. Sure it was painful at times. Long travel, harsh death penalty, high level mobs in noob zones, zone lines and medding. What these "horrible" things did was bring people together and build communities. If you had to sit and med for 10 minutes after a fight you passed time by getting to know the people you grouped with. You sat at zone lines talking to people. Boat rides...yup you talked to people. In EQ people knew each other. If you needed a good tank, you knew them. The gear was always secondary to me in EQ. I cared more about getting a fun group of people and doing my role to the best of my ability.
These massively multiplayer online solo games now don't offer these things. Well they do, but it's more convenient to go your own way. Really DAoC was the last game I remember where fun communities like that were built. I take it back SWG had some great people playing the first year or two also.
in short, MMO companies are targeting spoiled brats who are young and dont know what it means to work for something
Don't forget the adults that don't have the play time they used to.
Because everyone who plays MMOs that they pay monthly for wish for their game to end really fast. It is ironic that people shout for more content but then shout if the game last too long. You pay monthly, the game should be a "EVER"quest. The journey is always more fun than setting at the end.
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I would also like to add that there was no down time if you played like you were suppose to play. You worked as a group and if played efficently and well there was no downtime. The only people complaining of downtime are the ones who didn't play correctly.
can you believe this i saw a lot of game and of all the game i saw ,played hated etc,only one call me as strongly as wow did when i began playing it 3 years ago, EQ2.i got war i got aion beta etc i got most of the game popular (not eq1 im sorry didnt think it was still working lol might be a good idea for me to try it.im not that good with computer and the hardest part was setting up my graphic ,after a long while i found i could make my graphic card replace all setting wich i did, and men this game look good
its still a ressurce hog, but i got an old amd dual core 4600 with 3. somethingf of rame did like eq suggested and deactivated sthe thing that use the hard drive as memory(dont do this with less then 3 gig of memry(vista)
and men i can say eq2 is my best gaming experience yet
some speak about ultima online even yesterday,i check lol surprise of my life after 4 year they release a new expension sept 8 2009 .new race new graphic choice(otional you decide it doesnt cost more)etc
i think i ll buy that it a classic i keep earing about and uo went back to what fans wanted
the thing i found out is some game are so focused on graphic the game is just an empty shell,almost no content .no mystery just easy mode stuff
i thing easy mode is good but offering hard mode server is the future also ,
just easy mode is bad
just hard mode is bad
both are needed (trough seperate server)
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I would also like to add that there was no down time if you played like you were suppose to play. You worked as a group and if played efficently and well there was no downtime. The only people complaining of downtime are the ones who didn't play correctly.
...and consequently the only ones who complain about no community in WOW are those who couldn't find friends, so it goes both ways. They didn't play correctly, which is amazing since people who played EQ should've been very skilled in communication. But I'm guessing they came off as elitist A-holes instead, then wondered why everyone ignored them=) Of course it was the games fault, hehe. Its funny because 1/2 the people in the guild I was in most of the time I played were made up of former EQ and DAOC vets who were tired of their older MMOs. For those that couldn't easily find nice people to play with in WOW or any newer MMO, take a look in the mirror. Its probably not everyone around you that were the idiots=)
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I would also like to add that there was no down time if you played like you were suppose to play. You worked as a group and if played efficently and well there was no downtime. The only people complaining of downtime are the ones who didn't play correctly.
But I'm guessing they came off as elitist A-holes instead, then wondered why everyone ignored them=) Of course it was the games fault, hehe
take a look in the mirror. Its probably not everyone around you that were the idiots=)
Why have you reduced talking about a game down to personal insults?
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I would also like to add that there was no down time if you played like you were suppose to play. You worked as a group and if played efficently and well there was no downtime. The only people complaining of downtime are the ones who didn't play correctly.
...and consequently the only ones who complain about no community in WOW are those who couldn't find friends, so it goes both ways. They didn't play correctly, which is amazing since people who played EQ should've been very skilled in communication. But I'm guessing they came off as elitist A-holes instead, then wondered why everyone ignored them=) Of course it was the games fault, hehe. Its funny because 1/2 the people in the guild I was in most of the time I played were made up of former EQ and DAOC vets who were tired of their older MMOs. For those that couldn't easily find nice people to play with in WOW or any newer MMO, take a look in the mirror. Its probably not everyone around you that were the idiots=)
I never said that I liked or dislike WoW. On the contrary I enjoyed WoW as well. I said nothing negative as you took it. The fact is there was a correct way to play Everquest. If you did not play the game correctly then you sit waiting for mana. There is a correct way to play WoW and I also enjoyed that game very much also. Don't assume you may get it wrong. I have nothing against what WoW was in the beginning. I personally do not like the current game nor do I like the current EQ game, but both were great games at their peak. Everquest died for me after Velious and WoW died for me when they released Burning Crusade.
So much better to be limited to 1-3 templates instead, right? UO and AC both had a pathetically limited number of viable choices when it all came down to it. Better to have 8 working classes than 50 skills, all of which only a handfull were actually usefull. Class systems allow MORE choices and more balance, which is why those systems prevailed. Being able to choose any skill but be gimped compared to the next guy doesn't make for balanced play. Good systems get emulated. Broken ones do not. Skill systems work great in single player games. Theres no doubt about it. But they're horrible in MMOs. They look great on paper but never pan out in practice.
UO is horrible in terms of progression design. Everyone is a tank mage .. a lot LESS variety than EQ. EQ classes are much better.
You have to laugh at posters that try to defend all their choices being made for them. To set you straight UO had endless varieties of character skill combos that were quite viable. Skill systems reflect what happens in the real world, class systems are just a figment of someone's imagination. Skill systems also actually give you choice in how you mold your avatar. In class systems you are usually limited to the one build where your class is viable, so you end up with thousands of copycat builds. How boring. Running around with blinders on is a very boring life, take them off and find out how much fun you are missing.
actually what made eq2 great was 1 thing i havent seen mentioned yet(only read first few pages) but it was actually the player maturity level. i started playing back in 99, so lets see i was 13 years old, but apparently 13 back then is not like 13 now. kids now want every thing handed to them in a game, if a game even shows the slighest of difficulty people seem to want to bitch about it, and if they dont get their own way they quit for an easier game *cough*wow*cough* and it seems like in games that require little to no thinking the more noobs you see, especially towards end game progression. hell in eq1 you didnt have a bunch of fricking kids spaming and talking jibberish all day(ok, maby very few, but not many) but then again i guess there wernt as many kids in mmorpgs back then.
I remember when i quit EQ i started waiting for a game to come out that had many of the features i liked about EQ. Races playing different from each other, racial starting towns. Different and fun character classes. Large world. Underwater dungeons.
Many games came out after that, but none really matched in features to EQ. The first game to match the features was WoW. No wonder it did well.
very true, this was definitely a factor in EQ2, and even more so in EQ1.
in '99 a lot fewer people had PCs, let alone internet connectivity, and a minority of even them gamed online, let alone were interested in using their CC to play a fantasy game that they had to pay a monthly sub for...
It's no wonder that classic EQ was more adult. It was, in the main, adults that had realistic access to it.
When WoW blew the doors off this hobby, taking it into the mainstream, at around the same time we were seeing a boom in general internet use, the MMORPG gaming culture in general changed. People from of different age groups who were used to different games, and therefore had wildly different expectations of what a mmorpg 'should' be, and the devs listened to them because they represented the big payoff.
It was a classic case of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs though. Instead of having eggs for years, the devs (and their shareholders and accountants) went for a one off quick feast, and thats what has got us where we are today.
It's taken a long time to see a lot of people to start to come around to the idea that these games are about community again- I remember a time not so long ago on these boards where I felt like a very lone voice. Thank god though we seem to be seeing a change in general attitude and the understanding that MMORPGs are a unique type of game, as much as PnP RPGs are, and should be treated as such.
At last people are seeming to see that without community, challenge, and risk vs reward achievement, these games are nothing.
You know that, I know that, some people just don't get it.
Adding to that:
1) you could chat while fighting, since autoattack was pretty much 90% of the damage down, making socializing not only necessary, but also easy;
2) there was no short-task to accomplish solo (kill 10 boars, kill 20 birds) therefore the only action that players could get involved into day to day was grouping and killing mobs together (the so called "forced grouping"), putting even more focus on socializing and getting together;
3) you didn't have to farm for anything (materials, gold - ok a bit to lvl up tradeskills, but not that much and at the time tradeskillw ere pretty weak therefore not necessary to lvl) making your daily routine more about hanging out with guildmates or friends and having fun together;
4) Combat was long, making it less twitchy than the current n°1, and more relaxed;
5) The world was overall very deep and profound, making it even more immersive;
As i said numerous time, WOW is better in every single way than EQ, yet it was the gameplay flaws of EQ which made it more engaging and social-friendly than WoW. Talk about a paradox..
I loved EQ, but i coudldn't play it today.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
In The End... Its all about opinion.
I enjoyed EQ more than any game to date. Maybe it was because it was my first and you always have fond memories of your first. Maybe its because it wasn't so corrupted as today's MMO Market. If your old school, then you will remember "The Vision" as Brad Mcquaid said. They were trying to build a dream game, but it went to hell when 989 studios sold out to SOE. I was a Volunteer Guide(GM) for almost 5yrs, so I got to see the a lot more than the average player. When you answer a petition from someone who is completely lost. it makes you laugh a little, but you don't ever see that in todays MMO because there are websites and mods that do all the work for you. When you dealt with players issues all the time, you got to see exactly how naive the players were back then. Someone sells a piece of shit sword on accident and is so upset they are literally in tears over it... its crazy... but you don't see that today. Todays player is nothing more than a loot whore. If they cant get PH4T L00TZ then they want no part of it.
I truly hope that someone will find a way to bring a game to the market that has the ability to change the current mind set. Make it more about the Game and the people and less about the Loot.
And when you hit 35 and you didn't have to stare at that spell book anymore was a huge rite of passage for casters. I mean once I hit 35 I let everyone know how much I loved sit for med. But really as far as down time was concerned, that feature changed nothing. Sitting down and looking at the book, and sitting down and looking at an X shaped tree ended up regening mana at the same rate. It's really sad that people like you do not see the need for social interaction in MMO's. I'm really sorry that you have the patience and attention span of a 5 year old, you and people like you are the reason why MMO's are in the sad state they are now.
I remember that and it was awful. Woohoo .. now i can stare at a static scene, as opposed to my spellbook.
I socialize with my guildies EVERYDAY. We do chats and vent. 10 min down-time between trash pull is just STUPID. If i want to spend 1 min play, 10 min chatting, i will use MSN, AIM or what not. A MMO is GAME. We are supposed to be in gameplay, not a chat box.
It is extremely silly to give excuse to BORING gameplay mechanics and chalk it up to need to socialize. When we want to socialize, we socialize. We don't do it because a GAME forces us to look at at static screen for 10 min.
Oh, you are sad abt today's MMO. I am not. I guess you can always quit and leave us to have fun. It is not like there are not enough people in MMOs.
If you loved EQ in the past. Try it out again. Seriously it's a really easy to get into game now days.
Roll on the Mayong server ( start at 51 with 50 AA ) and you can solo fairly well until you can afford to hire a Mercenary, in which you can solo extremely well.
If soloing isn't your bag, I know I hate soloing. You can join up with people in Hotzones, there are always groups going on Mayong. If you need a healer for your grp, u can use a merc. If you need a tank, you can use a merc. No more sitting and waiting forever for a cleric to come along. They are very good at what they do.
I can't play WoW type games for more than 30 mins at a time, they are so boring. EQ however I played for 12 hours straight yesterday, went from 51 - 60. Loved every second of it.
Nope. The "meaning" of these pain is just that developers did NOT know better then. It has NO meaning.
This mysterious community talk is just silly. I played with guildies today in WOW. I played with people in EQ 10 years back. There is little difference. In fact, it is EASIER to get groups TODAY in WOW than 10 years ago in EQ because you have better software tools, *and* dungeons/raids are designed to be shorter and so easier to scheduled.
Nope. The "meaning" of these pain is just that developers did NOT know better then. It has NO meaning.
This mysterious community talk is just silly. I played with guildies today in WOW. I played with people in EQ 10 years back. There is little difference. In fact, it is EASIER to get groups TODAY in WOW than 10 years ago in EQ because you have better software tools, *and* dungeons/raids are designed to be shorter and so easier to scheduled.
Nariuss, some people like differnt things. Your outlook on MMORPGs is not the same as everyones, so don't speak like it is.
Nope. The "meaning" of these pain is just that developers did NOT know better then. It has NO meaning.
This mysterious community talk is just silly. I played with guildies today in WOW. I played with people in EQ 10 years back. There is little difference. In fact, it is EASIER to get groups TODAY in WOW than 10 years ago in EQ because you have better software tools, *and* dungeons/raids are designed to be shorter and so easier to scheduled.
Yet, while WoW is a superior game, it's not all that much more of a thrill... too much convenience eventually kills the fun somehow, because everything you could have done yourself, the game does it for you.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
EQ was topped same year it released by ASHERONS CALL it was superior to EQ in everyway.
EQ=Mainstream
AC=Sandbox with a superior DARKTIDE SERVER!!!
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Nariuss, some people like differnt things. Your outlook on MMORPGs is not the same as everyones, so don't speak like it is.
Sure. People like different things. However, there are certain things that is so undesirable that it is quite improbable to find people who like it. I would argue that staring at a static image for 10 min is one of them. I suppose there are people who like to stare at art for hours too.
I suppose there may be 10 people in the world who like to stare at a static picture while chatting. Oh if you are one of them, i would suggest staring at the wall *and* chat on MSN. There is a larger community on MSN than on EQ now so i am sure you will enjoy "building a community" very much.