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Gpu ati vs nvidia (trying to decide)
ok a little background on myself and my pc
currently i run the all amd platform setup
phenom II 3.0ghz (oc to 3.8ghz)
m4a79t asus mobo with the 790fx chipset
thermaltake 800watt psu
4 gig of pc 6400 ram (4 x 1gig off brand stuff)
OS: vista 32 bit buisness edition
internet connection is 10 mbps cable ( that's actual bandwith 10 mb down 2.5 mb up)
and now for the delima my current vid card is a 3870 ati card 512mb. When i built this pc i couldn't afford a 3870x2. the 38xx series was the newest that ati offered at the time. So i stuck with the all amd platform b/c i had heard so much about the improved performance. In AoC i got a lousy 20-25 fps in town though, sometimes dropping to 12-15 fps. I am STRICTLY an MMO gamer. i never play any other game on my pc , not even solitaire lol. i stopped playing aoc b/c of ex wife issues. (notice i said EX , so that issue is resolved now) I have not returned to AoC but instead plan to play Aion on release. imo a 20-30 fps rate is crappy and i am looking to upgrade. I want to be in pvp with 30 vs 30 and have no lag issues. My guess is a gpu upgrade will do the trick but i am torn between sticking to the all AMD and switching to a nvidia card. Having never owned Nvidia gpu i'm scared of switching over to the darkside and messing with a hybrid platform. I've also been looking daily for reviews or specs on the new 58XX series from ATI. And have not found any that i would consider reliable, most are speculation.
To sum it up i want to run Aion at a minimum of 50 fps in mass pvp. For once i want to be the guy that dropps all the lagged out and frozen players ><. I need Advice and Help with my choice. On October first i plan to purchase anything i need. My budget is Anything i want to spend, but i'm not gonna start from scratch and rebuild the whole pc. maybe just 1 or possibly 2 upgrades.
HELP!!!! I'm an amateur and look to forward to more knowledgable advice!
Comments
Your system looks good other than the GPU. Don't worry about the "hybrid" system, the GPU is not going to work any better or worse with the Mobo whether it is the same brand or not (maybe if you are doing Crossfire). As for ATI vs Nvidia, I would personally go with Nvidia as they are known to have better driver support (Frequent updates with game optimizations), and anything above an 8800 has Physx acceleration. As for picking the card it all depends on how much money you want to spend. You can pick up the 4870 or GTX 260 for about $150 now which are both great cards and if you wanna step it up you can go for the 4890 or GTX 275, any higher than that and you will end up paying more for little performance gains. Either of those cards should be able to handle AION fine.
Incorrect. Anything above an 8600 has PhysX.
i have looked extensivly at the 275 and the 4890. the thing that has my considering the Nvidia cards is the higher bit interface. the max with ati is only 256 but nvidia is 448 ( ofc they cange with the dual gpu cards to higher but i'm talking single gpu) i had planned on setting aside 5-600$ for the upgrade but would rather not spend that kind of money if i can achieve these frame rates at a lower cost point. anyone have a reliable source or link for the 58XX series? I heard rumors that they will be a higher bit interace but can't find anything to confirm it
Aion:
Aion's graphics engine is 5 years old, no worries
This game is ancient technologicaly wise and you will be fine with what you have.
AoC:
As for GPU, forget about ATI/NVidia dilema and just buy what fits to your budget giving out best performance/price ratio at level of performance you are looking for.
I have GTX260 on base clocks and I can run AoC at 25-60 FPS(can't get more accurate numbers since I can't play the game now).
While I don't think I was engaged in 60 men battle, 20 people Keshata skirmish was absolutely with no performance issues.
DX10 is still suffering heavy perforamnce loss - still playable though.
The system you have now is fine. If you are wanting to upgrade the GPU , I would wait a little while for the new Geforce 300 series ( directX 11). Google it , you will see it has the potential to be twice as powerfull as the best 200 series.
Ive always been an ATI guy and I have a 4850 in my system right now and I've loved it for the past year. It played Aion quite well, its IMHO the smoothest game out there, even smother than WoW. I can max the game out with x8 AA and still get framerates in the 100's in the wild and get 30-60 in the towns. I never got to PvP yet but Im hoping I'll get to do that in Open Beta. That is if they don't make it a stupid weekend thing. I really don't play games on the weekends.
If you can afford it Id get this www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx
or this www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx
I always went with Sapphire but I guess XFX started making ATI cards and people have been buying those more so Im going to try one of those out sometime when I upgrade to a 4890 soon.
i would have considered an X2 card but i wasn't sure if Aion supported multiple gpu's. i know that WoW did not as of the last time i played WoW
Wow. I only have an 8800GT and I get solid 50+ fps with all settings maxxed.
I can't really check the real numbers unfortunately, unless I would grab a trial code somewhere, but that is what my framerate was, I believe(it might be DX10 FPS when I think about it...)
Also, I forgot to add that I was playing the game at 1920*1080. 60 FPS is cap due LCD.
Recommended VGA for Aion is NVidia 6600...
Recommended VGA for Aion is NVidia 6600...
now that's funny stuff.
It is funny but true. I told you the engine is ancient, it's from 2004.
http://www.aionglobal.com/system-requirements.html
I think the CryEngine supports SLI, not sure about CrossFire.
But for Aion, I dont think you actually need to upgrade, im using a X1950XT card thats 4 years old and a pentium 4, and could run Aion on medium settings without problems. Granted i never did any mass pvp.
But if you really want to upgrade, wait for the new 58XX AMD cards or the new nVidia 300 series.
I am planning to upgrade my HD3870 soon to an HD5870. It really depends on what you want to do. If you use 3D programs, then ATI is the only consumer brand option. If you want to play AoC, then ATI is the better option. With the HD3870 there are some issues with the card you should be aware about. Make sure you aren't anti-aliasing or using V-Sync. This will cause the biggest performance loss with that particular card.
Well, we know Aion uses the modified CryEngine 1 to power its graphics, which was only used in Farcry, the Farcry expansions, and eventually a reworked version of it was used in FarCry 2. Farcry 2 is the closest I can find benches for using modern cards. So, here's a benchmark using relatively recent drivers:
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mainstream-roundup-2_16.html#sect0
ATI and Nvidia seem to be neck and neck on that engine and you get fps equal to the price point. The 250 runs a little faster than the 4850 but also costs a little more, the 4870 and 260 cost the same and run the same. Other benchmarks show similar results, the 260 or 4870 trading places depending on which version of drivers was out at the time.
Anyone who says ATI's driver support is infrequent or spotty hasn't followed ATI in the last 5 or 6 years. They got their asses in gear when the HD line came out and now release a driver update every month as policy (9.8 is most recent, for Aug/09), which is actually faster than nVidia releases their's. Xbitlabs.com is very good at doing driver reviews and you can read about Catalyst and Forceware updates there.
So what I would say is this: Since the cards are basically equal for this engine I can only think of these factors for you: ATI runs AoC a little faster than nVidia, nVidia runs WoW faster, and nVidia has interesting 3d glasses support if you have a 120hz monitor (if it works w/Aion).
Also wait till the end of the month for 5870 to hit the shelves, even if you don't buy a 5870 everything else will drop in price. The 300 series isn't anywhere near release, prob 6 months away.
does the Cryengine support multi gpu setups? i know WoW is a single thread app so dual gpu's tend to be glitchy. But if Aion will support it i'll crossfire dual 5870's when they release if not i think that the 5870 is probably the way i will go. i just can't see the bonus fps out of the nvidia price. they run a lil faster but not enough to justify the extra $. plus i love the new ati catalyst OC utility. i jsut oc'd my 3870 last night and it's up to 840 mhz core now!! and i didn't even have to mess with the bios . ATI imo has gotten their stuff together in the last few years. My AoC problems were probably the AA. i turned EVERYTHING to max and same with aion. turning my AA on on the login screen in aion it's using 99% of my gpu. with it off i'm only using 80%. but that's just the login screen. that's what worries me and that's y i'm upgrading.
I'm going to admit to complete laziness. I didn't read all of the OP. Too much text too late at night.
Aion runs - so far (I haven't yet ran OB, of course) - smooth as silk on a Radeon 4850 at 1680x1050 with all in-game options at their best. Check my dxdiag (sig) for more info about my system.
if you are deadset on upgrading, wait a tad longer for the ATI HD5000 series. Supposedly it hits in late October.
www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1473.html
Check this test, buy the best card you think you afford.
As for the ATI vs Nvidia I reccomend Nvidia. Until ATI releases the next gen card this winter they have nothing in the same class as the Nvidia cards.
But use the benchmark test to decide, not just the word of me or anyone else. Toms tests are reliable and actual numbers are always better to go on than a feeling or a loyalty to a brand.
I actually find tomshardware's Best of the Month section more useful than the charts:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2387.html
And this value comparison chart at xbitlabs if you can decipher it lol:
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/mainstream-roundup-2_22.html#sect0
The charts are really weird and don't match toms other reviews on the same cards, and the Sum of Benchmarks adds in all the lower settings you wouldn't play at with the higher settings you would, giving you a skewed result.
Toms Hardware tests are actually a bit biased. All of the games they choose for their 2009 benchmarks heavily favor nVidia architecture. When it comes to architecture, ATI right now has the better one. However, game engines won't use its architecture until this generation of video cards. DX11.
You can really only perceive 30 or so framerate max as a human being anyways (assuming having good perception), anything after that is just extra buffer in case frame rate drops. Anything above 30 it is not visible if the framerate does not fluctuate.
Brands don't matter as much as what you are comfortable with, and getting the right GPU for your system.
To the OP,you already have a solid system.
Massive PVP will NEVER work,witch is why the idea is just dumb and i cannot understand why players keep asking for it.The over all bottleneck of the system will always lend to a laggy game and i highly doubt any developer is close to coding their games properly for multi core and GPU use.I know i did notice that NCSOFT/Arena net is looking for mutli core programmers,so i guess they are attempting the effort,but IMOP it is years away still.
I can give you the perfect example...When i bought my machine ,it was the top of the line everything and yet it could not handle many objects in FFXI a VERY low poly game,so anything nowadays has no chance.
I loved the idea of Besieged in FFXI,but when those 5-100 mobs would enter to attack the city and those 50-100 players would fight them,i could only see 10% of all the action,the rest was just lagged out terribly.So what is the ONLY way to make it happen?limit the view distance and quality to about 10 feet around you lol,then what is the purpose of massive ,if you can only see SMALL?it is a design that fights itself.Maybe 5 years from now,the PC's and game coding will be up to par,but they are no where near yet.
IMO the OP's system is perfect for right now,i would not spend one dime upgrading>the only thing i would go for is the fastest RAM you can get and 8mb IF your system can read 8MB,i am not sure if Vista 32 can,because it is basically just XP.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/09/01/nvidia-roadmaps-turn/
after reading this i'm definately going for an ATI gpu. and absolutely gonna wait on the 5800 series.
Massive PVP is a possibility with older games. Ragnarok and Lineage 2 in 2004 were capable of multi-thousand player PVP. AION is attempting it as well. It really depends on netcoding and client/engine effeciency, it is possible.