I never really needed jumping in FFXI. After about 6 months of playing, I could've played the game blindfolded...if there weren't monsters around me that is hehe. I pretty much know the entire map of pretty much any of the zones in FFXI. Hopefully FFXIV will be even larger. FFXI was pretty big, but I could still memorize the land.
You guys keep saying how the FF playerbase is so mature but yet you think that if there is jumping it will be abused. Sounds like what you really think is that FF playerbase is just as immature as wow's.
We are for the most part an older, more mature crowd,(after all FF11 is 8/9 years old) though we like everyone else get excited about the new game we are intrested in. LOL How you could miss the obvious fact that its the new influx of WOW-tots-who will request all the jumping and WOW features they liked in WOW- that is our actually worry, is beyond me. I was kidding around in my previous post... again I thought obvious.
I played FFXI for quite awhile as well, and it may very well be my favorite MMO so far (was forced to quit unfortunately, when I switched to Verizon FIOS and then found out that the PS2 version could not connect wirelessly to FIOS). I must say, that lack of jumping didn't make much of a difference except that you didn't have a bunch of people jumping down the road like rabbits, or jumping in circles in PvP... which I always found rather ridiculous and irritating in other games anyway. I for one hope that jumping remains wonderfully absent.
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]" (Wikipedia.org, 8-24-09)
Ok, after reading over 4 pages of this stuff I had to stop and post myself.
M1. First off, calling it an RPG-MMO does not mean that it should not have jumping in it.
A1. Does anybody remember RPGs (Role Playing Games), as in the tabletop variety? It included anything that could be thought of but within limits to an individuals abilities. Jumping is easily within these limits.
M2. Real Life advocates and critics.
A2. Yes, jumping occurs in real life, but also people do get drained of their stamina. Because of this then those who support jumping should not complain about use of a stamina bar or limited jumping ability, especially if they are wearing armor. From experience, jumping just in chainmail is no small task.
Also, hurdling small obstacles (~7ft for tall, ~6ft for average, and ~4ft for small individuals) should be automatic or given the option to make that hurdle from the player. Finally ledges of ~6-8 ft should be able to be jumped down/fall down with minimal damage. That height used is for medium sized people weighing between 100-150lbs. (Remember as size&mass increases so will damage from that fall, less for smaller size&mass.)
M3. Name a FF title with jumping.
A3. A little moot, since only one other FF title has been an MMORPG.
M4. Jumping will attract a less mature crowd.
A4. This is just speculation. Most people associate jumping ability with WoW, but that is not the only game to include jumping in it. In every game rated ‘Teen +’ you are going to have both immature groups and mature groups. Just find those individuals that you associate with more and make some friends. Also, those kiddies who play in WoW probably like it, so after spending so much time harassing each other, why would they want to start over from scratch?
I played Warhammer 40K and Fantasy versions in high school. The game where you buy/paint/build models and assemble armies and then fight other people on a huge table top with terrain and grass etc.. you get the picture.
anyways, yeah that game was awesome, for the people on higher ground, they had an advantage in dice roll points when attacking enemies from above, vica versa, if you were the low guy attacking the higher guy you were at a great disadvantage. pretty cool and realistic coming from a defensive strongkeep point of view.
this game had no jumping.
If you want to jump , go play Aion, you can even freakking FLY up and down the Z - axis to your hearts content.
and if you don't like Aion, go play super mario bro's ^^
I am still in such disbelief that people are so simple minded that jumping is of any relevance what so ever. People want jumping because its realistic but they dont want realistic jumping? WTF!!! what am I missing here. If your going to use realistic as an argument you have live and die by it. They fact they dont want realistic jumping just nulls their realistic argument.
Like its been said before if devs design a map with jumping in mind, your not going to be able to jump where devs dont want you to be unless you find an exploit. (Which is what jumping does, is open up map exploits.) If devs want you to walk somewhere the map will be designed for that if jumping is involved or not.
Thanks WoW for bringing these people to the MMO genre that has 2 brain cells that can be endlessly entertained by watching their character jump on the screen.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
I am still in such disbelief that people are so simple minded that jumping is of any relevance what so ever. People want jumping because its realistic but they dont want realistic jumping? WTF!!! what am I missing here. If your going to use realistic as an argument you have live and die by it. They fact they dont want realistic jumping just nulls their realistic argument. Like its been said before if devs design a map with jumping in mind, your not going to be able to jump where devs dont want you to be unless you find an exploit. (Which is what jumping does, is open up map exploits.) If devs want you to walk somewhere the map will be designed for that if jumping is involved or not. Thanks WoW for bringing these people to the MMO genre that has 2 brain cells that can be endlessly entertained by watching their character jump on the screen.
\
All I have to say is: WOW Cateclysm(sp for sure) and Blizzards new MMO, both of which are as exciting to me as FF14, and two of the three I won't even be playing. Teehee, you cancount on Blizzard to pander to the lowest common denominator. A beautiful strategy profit-wise if you can pull it off. We will see whether SE tries to.
Again, jumping does not bother me, but I do not think FF14 has, to this point, been made with jumping in mind, which to me means adding it would cause a lot of harm to the gameplay.
Voice chat, on the other hand I believe could be added now or in the future and can always be redeveloped without having the same level of impact on gameplay.... Thats me defending my own lovechild, there, that is.
I played Warhammer 40K and Fantasy versions in high school. The game where you buy/paint/build models and assemble armies and then fight other people on a huge table top with terrain and grass etc.. you get the picture. anyways, yeah that game was awesome, for the people on higher ground, they had an advantage in dice roll points when attacking enemies from above, vica versa, if you were the low guy attacking the higher guy you were at a great disadvantage. pretty cool and realistic coming from a defensive strongkeep point of view. this game had no jumping.
Heh, Warhammer40K and games like it are not considered tabletop RPGs. They are miniature combat simulation games, or to put it more simply a tabletop RTS game. Yes there are no rules for jumping in the game, however if you are talking about the RPG suppliments for the Warhammer system, then you will notice that you can create your own rules for the game. There weren't really any rules for jumping because it wasn't needed. It was assumed that any small objects in your troop's path would be automatically overcame. In FF however small objects are not automatically scaled. When I mean RPG i'm talking about games like:
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, Dungeons and Dragons 2.0-4.0, Shadowrun, Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, Mechwarrior, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, and Middle-earth Roleplaying ect. ect.
Really this can all be boiled down to a rather simple answer, people want another button to mash. It's not about immersion, it's not about travel. Just the act of pushing a button, and receiving visual stimulation in turn.
I swear for some reason I see jumping as a potential for a bunch of hacks and cheats (and I said "potential" and if you don't understand the context its being used in then simply don't give me crap about it lol). But I can see it not being done just out of sure programming: yea it looks nice but is jumping really worth making the developers work on that 1 thing and make sure it doesn't flop programming wise and push-back release date by months or a year.
that range of ridges looks to work just like in other games, like in WoW if you're climbing a hill, sometimes you can go up but sometimes it's just too steep. Only difference is if the video was for WoW, the guy would be jumping 20 times trying to get over the steep part.
Comments
If you are bitching about no Jumping.
Please don't play the game.
We arn't worried about quantity of players, just quality.
We don't need people complainign and bitching on our game.
I never really needed jumping in FFXI. After about 6 months of playing, I could've played the game blindfolded...if there weren't monsters around me that is hehe. I pretty much know the entire map of pretty much any of the zones in FFXI. Hopefully FFXIV will be even larger. FFXI was pretty big, but I could still memorize the land.
We are for the most part an older, more mature crowd,(after all FF11 is 8/9 years old) though we like everyone else get excited about the new game we are intrested in. LOL How you could miss the obvious fact that its the new influx of WOW-tots-who will request all the jumping and WOW features they liked in WOW- that is our actually worry, is beyond me. I was kidding around in my previous post... again I thought obvious.
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
I played FFXI for quite awhile as well, and it may very well be my favorite MMO so far (was forced to quit unfortunately, when I switched to Verizon FIOS and then found out that the PS2 version could not connect wirelessly to FIOS). I must say, that lack of jumping didn't make much of a difference except that you didn't have a bunch of people jumping down the road like rabbits, or jumping in circles in PvP... which I always found rather ridiculous and irritating in other games anyway. I for one hope that jumping remains wonderfully absent.
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]" (Wikipedia.org, 8-24-09)
The best way to deal with trolls:
http://www.angelfire.com/space/usenet/ [IGNORE THEM, THEY JUST WANT ATTENTION!]
Ok, after reading over 4 pages of this stuff I had to stop and post myself.
M1. First off, calling it an RPG-MMO does not mean that it should not have jumping in it.
A1. Does anybody remember RPGs (Role Playing Games), as in the tabletop variety? It included anything that could be thought of but within limits to an individuals abilities. Jumping is easily within these limits.
M2. Real Life advocates and critics.
A2. Yes, jumping occurs in real life, but also people do get drained of their stamina. Because of this then those who support jumping should not complain about use of a stamina bar or limited jumping ability, especially if they are wearing armor. From experience, jumping just in chainmail is no small task.
Also, hurdling small obstacles (~7ft for tall, ~6ft for average, and ~4ft for small individuals) should be automatic or given the option to make that hurdle from the player. Finally ledges of ~6-8 ft should be able to be jumped down/fall down with minimal damage. That height used is for medium sized people weighing between 100-150lbs. (Remember as size&mass increases so will damage from that fall, less for smaller size&mass.)
M3. Name a FF title with jumping.
A3. A little moot, since only one other FF title has been an MMORPG.
M4. Jumping will attract a less mature crowd.
A4. This is just speculation. Most people associate jumping ability with WoW, but that is not the only game to include jumping in it. In every game rated ‘Teen +’ you are going to have both immature groups and mature groups. Just find those individuals that you associate with more and make some friends. Also, those kiddies who play in WoW probably like it, so after spending so much time harassing each other, why would they want to start over from scratch?
ok, your question about table top rpg games.
I played Warhammer 40K and Fantasy versions in high school. The game where you buy/paint/build models and assemble armies and then fight other people on a huge table top with terrain and grass etc.. you get the picture.
anyways, yeah that game was awesome, for the people on higher ground, they had an advantage in dice roll points when attacking enemies from above, vica versa, if you were the low guy attacking the higher guy you were at a great disadvantage. pretty cool and realistic coming from a defensive strongkeep point of view.
this game had no jumping.
If you want to jump , go play Aion, you can even freakking FLY up and down the Z - axis to your hearts content.
and if you don't like Aion, go play super mario bro's ^^
I am still in such disbelief that people are so simple minded that jumping is of any relevance what so ever. People want jumping because its realistic but they dont want realistic jumping? WTF!!! what am I missing here. If your going to use realistic as an argument you have live and die by it. They fact they dont want realistic jumping just nulls their realistic argument.
Like its been said before if devs design a map with jumping in mind, your not going to be able to jump where devs dont want you to be unless you find an exploit. (Which is what jumping does, is open up map exploits.) If devs want you to walk somewhere the map will be designed for that if jumping is involved or not.
Thanks WoW for bringing these people to the MMO genre that has 2 brain cells that can be endlessly entertained by watching their character jump on the screen.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
\
All I have to say is: WOW Cateclysm(sp for sure) and Blizzards new MMO, both of which are as exciting to me as FF14, and two of the three I won't even be playing. Teehee, you cancount on Blizzard to pander to the lowest common denominator. A beautiful strategy profit-wise if you can pull it off. We will see whether SE tries to.
Again, jumping does not bother me, but I do not think FF14 has, to this point, been made with jumping in mind, which to me means adding it would cause a lot of harm to the gameplay.
Voice chat, on the other hand I believe could be added now or in the future and can always be redeveloped without having the same level of impact on gameplay.... Thats me defending my own lovechild, there, that is.
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
Heh, Warhammer40K and games like it are not considered tabletop RPGs. They are miniature combat simulation games, or to put it more simply a tabletop RTS game. Yes there are no rules for jumping in the game, however if you are talking about the RPG suppliments for the Warhammer system, then you will notice that you can create your own rules for the game. There weren't really any rules for jumping because it wasn't needed. It was assumed that any small objects in your troop's path would be automatically overcame. In FF however small objects are not automatically scaled. When I mean RPG i'm talking about games like:
Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, Dungeons and Dragons 2.0-4.0, Shadowrun, Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, Mechwarrior, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, and Middle-earth Roleplaying ect. ect.
oh, my bad. lulz <.<
Really this can all be boiled down to a rather simple answer, people want another button to mash. It's not about immersion, it's not about travel. Just the act of pushing a button, and receiving visual stimulation in turn.
Well if it means I don't have to see a bunch of d-bags spamming the jump button, I'll take an invisible wall here and there.
I swear for some reason I see jumping as a potential for a bunch of hacks and cheats (and I said "potential" and if you don't understand the context its being used in then simply don't give me crap about it lol). But I can see it not being done just out of sure programming: yea it looks nice but is jumping really worth making the developers work on that 1 thing and make sure it doesn't flop programming wise and push-back release date by months or a year.
that range of ridges looks to work just like in other games, like in WoW if you're climbing a hill, sometimes you can go up but sometimes it's just too steep. Only difference is if the video was for WoW, the guy would be jumping 20 times trying to get over the steep part.