Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Gold Seller's
Chexx
Member Posts: 41
I hope that SE will implement a new system to stop Gold Sellers in their tracks. Since they became a huge problem in XI fluxuating the prices on the AH for their advantage. Of course a penalty for the Gold buyers as well. I would go with permanent ban since we all found out what can happen in a short period of time to the market. They shouldnt mess around in XIV with GS & GB
Comments
Fixed
Gil will be the form of currency for FFXIV.
Also it was stated in the same interview(on FFIXVcore) that they were implementing some sort of filter to prevent Gill selling, my assumption is, Ban China IP! but you never know what they will have in store
Edited to include Currency
I thought the currency was Gil... not Gill
/shrugs
Anyway, there is no way to stop gold ... excuse me.. gil sellers unless there is no in-game economy, and what fun is that?
Besides, no one really knows the exact effects that gold sellers have on an in-game economy. Sure, people like to think that it hurts the economy but I'm not so sure.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
yup ur right my bad, fixed yet again lol
This website came out called "ffxiah.com" (auction house) tracked the servers economies since launch. Everyone knows how much duped gil/botted/hacked/ farmed/ etc.. whatever you get the point, and the point I'm trying to make is that, yes indeed you can track the economy.
When they took out billions of gil out of the economy when they were fighting RMT measures... everything deflated, and you could see these graphs on all servers for X time of years.
Bottom line, is that it does hurt the game, and we wouldn't have the problem if nobody bought it.
But people did, and the economy got so overinflated it was ridiculous. - and this pigeon holed people to buy gil just to stay competetive in the HNM scene.
This website came out called "ffxiah.com" (auction house) tracked the servers economies since launch. Everyone knows how much duped gil/botted/hacked/ farmed/ etc.. whatever you get the point, and the point I'm trying to make is that, yes indeed you can track the economy.
When they took out billions of gil out of the economy when they were fighting RMT measures... everything deflated, and you could see these graphs on all servers for X time of years.
Bottom line, is that it does hurt the game, and we wouldn't have the problem if nobody bought it.
But people did, and the economy got so overinflated it was ridiculous. - and this pigeon holed people to buy gil just to stay competetive in the HNM scene.
SoulSurfer is right. Put a stop to the buyers will eventually put a decline on the farmers. If you ban a farmer the people who he/she works for will just get another account. If a buyer buys gold get caught and get banned he will most likely not buy gold again unless they are just stinking rich and don't care. Either way SE needs a plan to stop both and they probably due and just don't want to reveal their method.
This website came out called "ffxiah.com" (auction house) tracked the servers economies since launch. Everyone knows how much duped gil/botted/hacked/ farmed/ etc.. whatever you get the point, and the point I'm trying to make is that, yes indeed you can track the economy.
When they took out billions of gil out of the economy when they were fighting RMT measures... everything deflated, and you could see these graphs on all servers for X time of years.
Bottom line, is that it does hurt the game, and we wouldn't have the problem if nobody bought it.
But people did, and the economy got so overinflated it was ridiculous. - and this pigeon holed people to buy gil just to stay competetive in the HNM scene.
SoulSurfer is right. Put a stop to the buyers will eventually put a decline on the farmers. If you ban a farmer the people who he/she works for will just get another account. If a buyer buys gold get caught and get banned he will most likely not buy gold again unless they are just stinking rich and don't care. Either way SE needs a plan to stop both and they probably due and just don't want to reveal their method.
I agree SE saw what the RMT could do to their beloved XI and how in a short period of time jacked up the prices causing people to buy gold just to compete with the prices on the market and all the other people buying gold. I really hope they take this alot more seriously then they did XI. I personally would just Ban the person and then their IP. and if that didint work i would take it to the extreme of maybe baning the country code and somehow making that the honest people from their can still play by submitting a application and being monitored for a small period of time to make sure their not RMT.
To elaborate on Yes, RMT do hurt the economy:
During christmas of one year, Hauberk went from 1mil to 15mil in only 1 week. After they removed a ton of RMT, the price went down to 800k.
RMT clearly effect the economy in a negitive way.
This is true i was around for that in 2006, some people will never learn and keep buying gil thinking "oh it's ok...no one will know- it's just a few mil gil" they get careless, buy to high, others feel the need to buy gil too think it's ok. that is our economy killer. work for your "own" gil then you start to plan what to buy and for how much.
I for one have & will not ever buy from RMTer they're thief's unwelcome pests, scamers, spamers....lol you get the idea i hope more see this and pass it on to your friends.
Bottom line RMT = Bad. don't do it! it's a trip think about the children!!
haha, clearly remember this time frame. I was mnk main, but my Sam got all the 2nd hand stuff mnk could use. Haub was not one of the items. And, when this huge deflate happened I finally bought this armor for ballista and other macroed armor stat usage maximization super macro whore spammer lol.... (i wasn't like this at first, but then the culture sorta molded me) XD
Gold/Gil Sellers don't just affect the economy, they affect the game in general.
Example:
I played FFXI for years, it was my first fantasy MMO, and I was hooked on that game. The thing that ruined it for me was all of the gil sellers. My way of making Gil in FFXI was to go to the mines near Teleport-Dem (I think that's what it was called). I would mine for hours and hours, and wait for Darksday because there was an increased chance of mining Darksteel Ore on Darksday. I would mine all the best ore I could, and sell it on the AH.
Well, I had to take a hiatus from the game for a few months. I came back, went mining while waiting for a party, and the mines I always visited were flooded with gil sellers. They would run up to your mining point and ninja your point. You could bitch at them all you want, but you'd never get a response, because they weren't normal players, they were employees getting paid to steal your loot.
It was a competition between the evil gil sellers, and the players who didn't get paid to play the game. The in-game experience was altered by black market gil sellers. I was not able to play the game the way it was meant to be played because of gil sellers.
"Good people are good because they've come to wisdom through failure. We get very little wisdom from success, you know." William Saroyan
Maybe they'll put in place game mechanics that won't require people to mine for hours and hours to make Gil and then folks won't feel an incentive to buy it.
Nah, too much trouble.
Regardless, they can easily put in algorithms that monitor suspicious Gil activity and they can take swift action.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
yea never fails that no matter what MMo your playing you got those farmers to content with. I, myself, had my WoW account hacked into by a gold seller back in March all because I had a maxed lvl toon and someone was paying the guy to get gold for him. well my point is that gold sellers do nothing but ruin the games we love to play all because, believe it or not, it's really the Dev's fault for making the prices in games just so high for things while making it hard to get the money on your own.
Players controll the AH. As long as something is rare it will cost you. If its easy to make money, well the rare item will cost a massive amount of currency. Rare items will always be valuable. Its all about supply and demand. Low supply high demand your going to be forking over a pretty penny. High supply low demand your going to be vending it.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Oh... just look at how crazy the economy was for a time in XI before they implemented the Task Force... Inflation was beyond ridiculous and people were leaving the game. Once they started the Task Force and all that excessive gil was removed from the economy - on a regular basis - inflation came way down and prices on many things dropped to way lower than they were even when it first launched in the US.
Actually.. I use that example in FFXI as proof that RMT *does* affect in-game economies if left unchecked.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'll just say that its very hard to run for mayor and COMPLETELY stop crime in a large city. (example: New York, Chicago, London, Paris etc.)
Now in just the same type of context its nearly impossible to stop Gold,Gil,Exp,Isk, GP, EU Currency sellers in these games.
And on top of all that I couldn't imagine how hard it would be to STOP RMT in games.
Long live MMO's but I think "gold sellers" will live just as long as MMO's do.
It could be stopped or severly hampered. The beautiful thing about MMO's is its nothing but code. More code could be put in to track currency, and flag certian situations. Of course the company would have to invest in something like this but anything can be tracked.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
RMTs are a blight on any mmorpg world. It sounds SE is trying to approach this as aggressively as possible. Sundi has indicated that the RMTers are criminals. I love that and he has my vote if he ever ran for president. :P Not that he could but if it was possible.. Well you get the idea.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Final Fantasy XIV Core - Final Fantasy XIV Fansite
FFXIVCore.com on Twitter
FFXIVCore.com on Facebook
Simple way to solve this issue is to make GIL/items/weapons/armor tradable to only Clan members. And becoming a clan member the leader of the Clan will set its standards example: You must have 5 Classes, and have x y and z areas unlocked.
Oh... just look at how crazy the economy was for a time in XI before they implemented the Task Force... Inflation was beyond ridiculous and people were leaving the game. Once they started the Task Force and all that excessive gil was removed from the economy - on a regular basis - inflation came way down and prices on many things dropped to way lower than they were even when it first launched in the US.
Actually.. I use that example in FFXI as proof that RMT *does* affect in-game economies if left unchecked.
This is probably why they reminded the security community that they will also be bringing the task force to FFXIV. I think they understand now to routinely analyze the game logs to spot the RMT organizations. Getting the source (tracking down the hosts of RMT websites) is the only way to drive this illegal practice underground, as opposed to how openly people advertise it now.
Explaining the seriousness to the security community was also important in raising the seriousness of the RMT. By equating identity theft into the equation, the issue becomes serious enough for conventional law enforcement to take interest.
Oh... just look at how crazy the economy was for a time in XI before they implemented the Task Force... Inflation was beyond ridiculous and people were leaving the game. Once they started the Task Force and all that excessive gil was removed from the economy - on a regular basis - inflation came way down and prices on many things dropped to way lower than they were even when it first launched in the US.
Actually.. I use that example in FFXI as proof that RMT *does* affect in-game economies if left unchecked.
This is probably why they reminded the security community that they will also be bringing the task force to FFXIV. I think they understand now to routinely analyze the game logs to spot the RMT organizations. Getting the source (tracking down the hosts of RMT websites) is the only way to drive this illegal practice underground, as opposed to how openly people advertise it now.
Explaining the seriousness to the security community was also important in raising the seriousness of the RMT. By equating identity theft into the equation, the issue becomes serious enough for conventional law enforcement to take interest.
You know... that's another thing...
RMT has gotten to the point where it now goes beyond in-game activity. They are actively trying to hack or otherwise compromise players' accounts to get their stuff and then spam their RMT ads 'til the characters are deleted, etc. That's been happening a lot in WoW as well.
So... yeah... When RMT companies are resorting to compromising people's accounts to do their business... I'd say it's safe to say that it *definitely* has an impact on the game and the players... even those who don't buy their gil.
Yet still... so long as lazy-ass people think it's okay to buy their way through a game, it'll continue to be a problem. That's really where it all comes back to... If people would stop buying the gil/gold/what-have-you, these companies wouldn't be able to survive... or at least not in a given game.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I want to go out on a limb and assume that everyone agrees RMT affect the economy one way or another. The biggest thing that really was the *facepalm* in FF11 was the early belief and failure to acknowledge that, in those famous words uttered by SE, "there are no rmt just simply players who have more time to play than others". If players remember when that quote was tossed around then they would also remember it would take over a year before a banning of any sort would would hit the game and that was at the inflation height (remember those 20M serket rings on the AH).
I want to honestly hope that SE has at least rejected their "I know better than you" attitude but I'm also a bit worried about how they wish to implement measures toward RMT. As was already reported on blue gartr, when they tried to implement a program that would auto-jail supposed rmt, it was hitting average players in less than 5 min (it was admitted their program needed fine-tuning)! I think SE's problem is listening to the player base. It's been well known that players would report rmt names. Obviously it dangerous but its different if an LS of 17 ppl report 1 player and 300 ppl report 1 player as an rmt. So I think SE ignoring the player base doesn't help.
Yeah, I remember when they took that sorta "non-stance" on it. I think it was naivete on their part, to be honest. Maybe they didn't consider that people playing their game would actually do that... 'til the proof hit them in the face.
The *good* thing, though, is that once they acknowledged it, they went on to become one of the most active in combatting it of any other MMO developer I've seen. Usually, in other MMOs, RMT activity is usually relegated to GMs who already have their hands full with myriad other player issues. Thus, they seldom get the attention they deserve.
SE has done something unprecedented, I think, in creating an entire separate group of people whose sole purpose is to research, eliminate and find new ways to defend against RMT in their game, maintaining accountability to their player base. People I've spoken to who've played either few other MMOs, if any at all, seem to be skeptical of how effective they are since you do still get /tells, etc. Since they have little or not other experience to compare it against, their doubt is understandable.
I simply tell them that in terms of fighting a war that will never truly be won (there will always be RMT as long as there are those lazy enough to buy their way through a game), SE is kicking some serious ass, and invite them to go check out some other MMOs where they *really* don't do anything about RMT and see the radical difference.
As for everyone agreeing that RMT affects the economy one way or the other... I wouldn't be so quick to take that bet. I've seen, and gotten into debates with many people who insist that RMT is harmless, that the game's design makes it necessary and that if the developers didn't intend people to buy money outside the game that they wouldn't be able to... They think it's a completely legitimate way to play and would argue all day long that RMT has *no* negative affect on the game in any way.
To quote one particularly staunch champion of RMT, "Will you jealous babies your whining? If you can't afford to spend money on gold, then you probably shouldn't be playing MMOs". That's a direct, almost word-for-word quote from another forum I was debating this issue on some time ago.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
well as annoyed as I was with the gil sellers once they reached endgame on my server, our initial cause of inflation was the damn padded cap craze. I made 3 million in under 2 weeks doing that with no bot and I only got in on it right before the nerf. Then you factor in the thousands of other people who were there doing it with Bots... sure sure a lot of them probably sold gil... but that income was way too easy to come by... it added like a billion gil into circulation in under a month. Drop that much currency into any economy and things will go nuts very fast
the funny thing is that if you studied the AH trends carefully and treated it like a stock market, usually you came out on top. If you had the foresight to sell certain items, buy certain ones, at the right time, before whatever SE was trying to do for that particular update - sometimes you could make a killing.
If you were one of those players oblivious (maybe with good reason) to what the hell was going on in the economy, you usually got boned.
online AH economies are interesting in the face of rmt consequences/goldselling/bots etc..., devs trying to mitigate it, and players reacting to it.
I wrote a short bio on one of the developers for FFXIV, and from the looks of it, he won't be taking the RMT problem lightly.
Developer Spotlight - Sage Sundi
I do remember hearing about that incident, they've since moved away from single check account flagging. From the information that has come out recently, they will be using real people to evaluate accounts for activities of fraud. The hope as you mentioned is that they have learned from FFXI and apply it to FFXIV.
I've always been in favor of a self moderating community, where players actually feel their reports are being listened to, and hence their usefulness increases. And everything that has been said about the RMT and game inflation is spot on.