Lold. the people who really think WoW can die are kinda just sad, 8 million + players dont just up and quit a game because some other MMO comes along and it will take a couple more yeara before wow blows into the dust as one of the greatest games ever, but for now its jsut a great game hanging around, and Aion is a great game of its own, but hasnt had the Expierence in the field to actualy do any harm to WoW.. any way
heres your sign....
You are planning on staying with WoW right? God I hope so.
You think his logic is wrong? No game would cause a mass transfer.
Actually yes, I do think his logic is wrong. Let me explain.
I have been a 5 year WoW player myself, have 8 level 80s right now. Have been around long enough to actually have a Warlord title on one of them (for some that means something). I have every craft/gather at max on both horde and alliance, and that includes cooking and fishing on every single main/alt. And I believe WoW is already dead, the people who are still playing it are just stuck in the daily grind to realize it. Perhaps after Blizzard brings out the next expansion, charges them another $50, and destroys everythign they worked thier a$$es off on every day for the past 5 years AGAIN, maybe then they will wake up.
Honestly, I do believe its not possible for AION to kill WoW, because WoW is already dead. I was in WoW the week WAR OB took place, there wasn't a kricket in all of Outland on 3 servers. Sure they came back once that game didnt' cater to the easy mode, but the fact remains they bailed to try first. The same will happen here too, those who like AION will stay, those who don't will hipe WoW again and fall back to sleep for another year.
And before anyone starts saying I'm just a WoW hater, let me correct you there first. I have nothign against WoW, I do howver have somethign against the players of WoW. Pre-WoW MMORPGs had a 'community' that some of us actually are proud to be a part of, Post-WoW...well lets just say half the time I'm ambarassaed to say I'm a gamer. Sheep plain and simple, catered to like sheep, groomed of your wool, kept in the pasture to eat more grass and grow more wool, and clipped again.
WoW isn't anything to compete with, the game basics itself is driven by grind in every area...no its not WoW thats the one to compete with, its Blizzard's coddling thats the one to break. The playerbase has become so blinded by thier mass-media machine that they dont even notice they are given a new game every expansion pack that resets everything they knew before. They just keep giving in to the 'oh look shiney!' and forget. And if your a WoW player, and saying it isnt' true, let me ask you this...how many runs did it take you to get your Tier II set? Tier III set?? Tier V set?? Tier VII set?? any of them worth anything now?? You payed Blizzard to waste how much of your life?? Oh dont look now, but word is there is another Expansion Pack in the works too, going to waste more time getting your top Tier set now?
WoW isn't one of the greatest games ever, its the company behind it thats the great one. I started playing WoW because I was a fan of the Warcraft series, as I'm sure most did originally back in the pre-BC days. Those people, and those days, are gone.
{mod edit} So you beleive wow is already dead? Do I really need to pull out sub numbers? No when warhammer came out there wasnt a difference at all, so thats just a lie or just your personal friends list weren't on. Yes I agree the raiding is grind-esque. Although people obviously enjoy it alot or they wouldn't do it. Seeing all the great content and working together with 24 other friends can be a good time. Ya it took me alot of runs to get all my tiers throught the years. Did i have fun while doing it? Yes. Did i make lasting friends ive moved onto with other games even? Yes. Maybe you should try being more competitive in your wow time. That should give you some fun, cause myself along with all the other top guild and players on my server are perfectly happy. Maybe learn to pvp on a serious level, or become a worlds top guild, or even just push some dps records on wowmeteronline.com.
So no wow isn't dead, and it isn't going to be dead. The subs may drop a bit with aion being released. And with the new expansion coming out they will be back. And yes all my work on my character is going to be gone as i level to 85. Although my memories and friends won't be. I'm looking forward to seeing all the new zones, lore, and all the adventures I'm going to have with my guildies. I'm also looking forward to Aion alot. I'm just sick of nerds like this kid who think they're really smart by spewing they're wow "hate". No you aren't smart. You don't look cool to the other readers. You're a loser and your opinion is terrible. I'm not surprised you hate a game thats taken thousands upon thousands of hours of your life that you could have spent making friends and meeting girls or doing something else productive.
/end rant
You are definately entitled to your opinion, however wrong your assumptions may actually be. Your also entitled to rant when you feel your insulted, I know I didn't pull any punches when I stated your obvious favorite game was in question. I realize it must chap your ass to think someone could possibly question your god like status or belittle your achievements. Afterall it must have taken you and all your friends countless hours to get them all in your virtual world.
Now, since I have given you your due on your opinions I'm only gonig to say one thing. Next time you make wild accusations and try to insult, maybe you should be close m'kay?? 'kid'...nope over 40, but I do have a 17 year old son thank you very much. 'aren't smart'...nope wrong again, actually I'm an Electrical Engneer with over 20 years experience in Telecommunications and a proud member of MENSA, but nice try there too. 'making friends and meeting girls'....yeah married thanks, and plenty of friends - mine are in the real world mostly, some of us even play games online together. As for spending time to 'impress' people with my in-game skills, alrdy got my Warlord title in the only PvP that meant ANYTHING in WoW. And as for the OMGZ I need to get my character name listed on that web site for glory! No thanx...rather spend my time working on my next pay raise at work or building my portfolio, but you have at it boy, I'm sure it will put that Audi in your driveway someday. Oh and please feel free to tell us all here how impressive your life really is, I'm sure everyone will get a kick outta it.
/end return rant
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Honestly, I do believe its not possible for AION to kill WoW, because WoW is already dead. I was in WoW the week WAR OB took place, there wasn't a kricket in all of Outland on 3 servers. Sure they came back once that game didnt' cater to the easy mode, but the fact remains they bailed to try first. The same will happen here too, those who like AION will stay, those who don't will hipe WoW again and fall back to sleep for another year.
Now, before I say what I have to say, I do think you have some valid points and a well thought out post. While I understand your use of "sheep", I think it's a little harsh, and I think for a lot of player's it's less a flock/herd mentality, and more of a fear or lack of desire to try something different. Most of the WoW players I know are extremely casual gamers and will stay there due to that, a lot are in guilds and have mutliple online friends they run with. A lot can be said for those you choose to play with, and if you like the "community" you have built up around yourself, then why leave? There is nothing wrong with that, and that hardly makes them sheep. Not saying there aren't some sheep that play, but that is a bit of an overgeneralzation on the player base as a whole. But I digress...
My main point in all of this deals with the above. I have played WoW on and off for about three years (broke the cycle last year, but as I stated above, my "community" kept me going for awhile), had a few high level toons on a few different servers (most on Venture), and during the WAR OB, I did not see a dent in any of the servers I had toons on. I remember due to one or two guildies trying it out at that time, and not many people were interested in making the jump (personally, I am just sick and tired of fantasy MMOs, so I had no desire to go from one to another). Point being, just because three servers had crickets in the Outlands, with the number of servers and number of players, that hardly makes a big dent in their numbers. WoW may be dead for you (myself as well), but for many others, it is alive and well. Crickets in the outlands on three servers is hardly what I would call a massive shift.
In the end, the only thing that is going to kill WoW will be time or the "improvements" their patches bring. No single game will ever cause a massive enough shift to damage it. Just my two cents. Flame on.
Your absolutely right here, and yes, my term sheep may have been a bit harsh. Flock may have actually been more accurate as well, since ti does appear to me that its the group thats holding the sub numbers up still in WoW. Usually, and you can even see it already here if you check the server forums for Aion, the guilds stay together even through a game move. Which is more than likely why so many haven't move off it yet, as any new game has to convince the majority of the group its worth the time, money, and effort.
And yes, I did imply there was a shift when WAR OB came out, and it was accurate. I made that point to show that there are in fact many people who are at least willing to look outside WoW for thier gaming needs, wether they find a new home or not, it is still a fact they are looking.
As for the end of WoW, I cann't say when it will be, but I stand by my prediction that it is 'already dead'. And yes that is a prediction, of which I personally feel will be caused by themselves. One by the "improvements" as you so nicely put it, and secondly by the group transfer mentality. Eventually there will be some game that comes out that will be enough to justify the guild/group moving off of WoW. They dont all have to move in the same week, to the same game, but as more and more of them do move, less and less are left behind. Your so called TopGuilds as one person here likes to call them are all new to the scene, or a mojority of them are. How many of the original hard-core raiding guilds are actually left anymore? The names maybe, third generation rebuilt, and currently run by the noob who used to make the potion runs (water boy).
But yeah, your absolutely right on pretty much all of your post here, its the community thats keeping WoW alive right now, and in my opion, its that same community that will bring it down.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
How does a mmo kill another mmo? I mean, did that ever happen before? I mean most mmo seem to either be killed by itself, developer, company, or players. I have not see a game actually killing another yet, so if someone want to give a past example, that would be greatly appreciated.
I am afraid you are completely right how does one MMO kill another?Your point is greatly appreciated as i will spend the rest of my night pondering on how it is possible thanks for the statement!
"how do you kill that which has no life ?"
sorry had to
Anyway WOW will never die just like EQ and Ultima it could turn to absolute crap (IMO it already is and always has been) but it will still always have a loyal following who will just not move on until the day the final server closes.
I have great news for poster #21, when he / she writes :
"Congrats you just described EQ and the company that began that process. I think you need to re-direct your disdain for that "end-game" based expansions to SOE and not Blizzard."
Guess what ? The guys who are deciding on WoW's design are the former elite players from EQ : Kaplan was Tigole, guild leader of Legacy of Steel, for example. At some point Furor (Fires of Heaven) joined the project, and so on...
So congratulations for your awareness ! You're perfectly right, EQ and WOW have the same problems regarding endgame and progression, but that's just because WOW's endgame and progression are a copy-paste of what used to be EQ's endgame and progression until Planes of Power (I dont know how it went afterwards, and how it is nowadays).
I don't know if that is enough to say Aion's endgame will be any different, I have no idea. But at least you now know the reason why WOW and EQ are so much alike...
There wont be any one factor that kills wow it ll be a number of things . Aion will reduce the number of WOW players as will the new Star Wars mmo ( and many other as yet to be released mmos for that matter ) . Boredom with Warcraft will also lead players to give it up . WoW will look increasingly dated in the coming years so time will be another factor .Also Blizzard tend to be aiming the game at an increasingly younger and casual userbase so short term gains over long term gameplay will lead to less people playing eventually .
Aions not the WOWkiller .But it is the first nail in its coffin . Of course i could be totally wrong and if AION becomes the in game among children , pier pressure may come into play and it may become the in game to play . If you suddenly become uncool at school for playing WOW then that ll lead to a vast exodus from the game . I personally dont think thats likly to happen but you never know .
Comments
You are planning on staying with WoW right? God I hope so.
You think his logic is wrong? No game would cause a mass transfer.
Actually yes, I do think his logic is wrong. Let me explain.
I have been a 5 year WoW player myself, have 8 level 80s right now. Have been around long enough to actually have a Warlord title on one of them (for some that means something). I have every craft/gather at max on both horde and alliance, and that includes cooking and fishing on every single main/alt. And I believe WoW is already dead, the people who are still playing it are just stuck in the daily grind to realize it. Perhaps after Blizzard brings out the next expansion, charges them another $50, and destroys everythign they worked thier a$$es off on every day for the past 5 years AGAIN, maybe then they will wake up.
Honestly, I do believe its not possible for AION to kill WoW, because WoW is already dead. I was in WoW the week WAR OB took place, there wasn't a kricket in all of Outland on 3 servers. Sure they came back once that game didnt' cater to the easy mode, but the fact remains they bailed to try first. The same will happen here too, those who like AION will stay, those who don't will hipe WoW again and fall back to sleep for another year.
And before anyone starts saying I'm just a WoW hater, let me correct you there first. I have nothign against WoW, I do howver have somethign against the players of WoW. Pre-WoW MMORPGs had a 'community' that some of us actually are proud to be a part of, Post-WoW...well lets just say half the time I'm ambarassaed to say I'm a gamer. Sheep plain and simple, catered to like sheep, groomed of your wool, kept in the pasture to eat more grass and grow more wool, and clipped again.
WoW isn't anything to compete with, the game basics itself is driven by grind in every area...no its not WoW thats the one to compete with, its Blizzard's coddling thats the one to break. The playerbase has become so blinded by thier mass-media machine that they dont even notice they are given a new game every expansion pack that resets everything they knew before. They just keep giving in to the 'oh look shiney!' and forget. And if your a WoW player, and saying it isnt' true, let me ask you this...how many runs did it take you to get your Tier II set? Tier III set?? Tier V set?? Tier VII set?? any of them worth anything now?? You payed Blizzard to waste how much of your life?? Oh dont look now, but word is there is another Expansion Pack in the works too, going to waste more time getting your top Tier set now?
WoW isn't one of the greatest games ever, its the company behind it thats the great one. I started playing WoW because I was a fan of the Warcraft series, as I'm sure most did originally back in the pre-BC days. Those people, and those days, are gone.
{mod edit} So you beleive wow is already dead? Do I really need to pull out sub numbers? No when warhammer came out there wasnt a difference at all, so thats just a lie or just your personal friends list weren't on. Yes I agree the raiding is grind-esque. Although people obviously enjoy it alot or they wouldn't do it. Seeing all the great content and working together with 24 other friends can be a good time. Ya it took me alot of runs to get all my tiers throught the years. Did i have fun while doing it? Yes. Did i make lasting friends ive moved onto with other games even? Yes. Maybe you should try being more competitive in your wow time. That should give you some fun, cause myself along with all the other top guild and players on my server are perfectly happy. Maybe learn to pvp on a serious level, or become a worlds top guild, or even just push some dps records on wowmeteronline.com.
So no wow isn't dead, and it isn't going to be dead. The subs may drop a bit with aion being released. And with the new expansion coming out they will be back. And yes all my work on my character is going to be gone as i level to 85. Although my memories and friends won't be. I'm looking forward to seeing all the new zones, lore, and all the adventures I'm going to have with my guildies. I'm also looking forward to Aion alot. I'm just sick of nerds like this kid who think they're really smart by spewing they're wow "hate". No you aren't smart. You don't look cool to the other readers. You're a loser and your opinion is terrible. I'm not surprised you hate a game thats taken thousands upon thousands of hours of your life that you could have spent making friends and meeting girls or doing something else productive.
/end rant
You are definately entitled to your opinion, however wrong your assumptions may actually be. Your also entitled to rant when you feel your insulted, I know I didn't pull any punches when I stated your obvious favorite game was in question. I realize it must chap your ass to think someone could possibly question your god like status or belittle your achievements. Afterall it must have taken you and all your friends countless hours to get them all in your virtual world.
Now, since I have given you your due on your opinions I'm only gonig to say one thing. Next time you make wild accusations and try to insult, maybe you should be close m'kay?? 'kid'...nope over 40, but I do have a 17 year old son thank you very much. 'aren't smart'...nope wrong again, actually I'm an Electrical Engneer with over 20 years experience in Telecommunications and a proud member of MENSA, but nice try there too. 'making friends and meeting girls'....yeah married thanks, and plenty of friends - mine are in the real world mostly, some of us even play games online together. As for spending time to 'impress' people with my in-game skills, alrdy got my Warlord title in the only PvP that meant ANYTHING in WoW. And as for the OMGZ I need to get my character name listed on that web site for glory! No thanx...rather spend my time working on my next pay raise at work or building my portfolio, but you have at it boy, I'm sure it will put that Audi in your driveway someday. Oh and please feel free to tell us all here how impressive your life really is, I'm sure everyone will get a kick outta it.
/end return rant
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
It's been said in another thread but never really answered. Why do some want WOW to be killed again?
Honestly, I do believe its not possible for AION to kill WoW, because WoW is already dead. I was in WoW the week WAR OB took place, there wasn't a kricket in all of Outland on 3 servers. Sure they came back once that game didnt' cater to the easy mode, but the fact remains they bailed to try first. The same will happen here too, those who like AION will stay, those who don't will hipe WoW again and fall back to sleep for another year.
Now, before I say what I have to say, I do think you have some valid points and a well thought out post. While I understand your use of "sheep", I think it's a little harsh, and I think for a lot of player's it's less a flock/herd mentality, and more of a fear or lack of desire to try something different. Most of the WoW players I know are extremely casual gamers and will stay there due to that, a lot are in guilds and have mutliple online friends they run with. A lot can be said for those you choose to play with, and if you like the "community" you have built up around yourself, then why leave? There is nothing wrong with that, and that hardly makes them sheep. Not saying there aren't some sheep that play, but that is a bit of an overgeneralzation on the player base as a whole. But I digress...
My main point in all of this deals with the above. I have played WoW on and off for about three years (broke the cycle last year, but as I stated above, my "community" kept me going for awhile), had a few high level toons on a few different servers (most on Venture), and during the WAR OB, I did not see a dent in any of the servers I had toons on. I remember due to one or two guildies trying it out at that time, and not many people were interested in making the jump (personally, I am just sick and tired of fantasy MMOs, so I had no desire to go from one to another). Point being, just because three servers had crickets in the Outlands, with the number of servers and number of players, that hardly makes a big dent in their numbers. WoW may be dead for you (myself as well), but for many others, it is alive and well. Crickets in the outlands on three servers is hardly what I would call a massive shift.
In the end, the only thing that is going to kill WoW will be time or the "improvements" their patches bring. No single game will ever cause a massive enough shift to damage it. Just my two cents. Flame on.
Your absolutely right here, and yes, my term sheep may have been a bit harsh. Flock may have actually been more accurate as well, since ti does appear to me that its the group thats holding the sub numbers up still in WoW. Usually, and you can even see it already here if you check the server forums for Aion, the guilds stay together even through a game move. Which is more than likely why so many haven't move off it yet, as any new game has to convince the majority of the group its worth the time, money, and effort.
And yes, I did imply there was a shift when WAR OB came out, and it was accurate. I made that point to show that there are in fact many people who are at least willing to look outside WoW for thier gaming needs, wether they find a new home or not, it is still a fact they are looking.
As for the end of WoW, I cann't say when it will be, but I stand by my prediction that it is 'already dead'. And yes that is a prediction, of which I personally feel will be caused by themselves. One by the "improvements" as you so nicely put it, and secondly by the group transfer mentality. Eventually there will be some game that comes out that will be enough to justify the guild/group moving off of WoW. They dont all have to move in the same week, to the same game, but as more and more of them do move, less and less are left behind. Your so called TopGuilds as one person here likes to call them are all new to the scene, or a mojority of them are. How many of the original hard-core raiding guilds are actually left anymore? The names maybe, third generation rebuilt, and currently run by the noob who used to make the potion runs (water boy).
But yeah, your absolutely right on pretty much all of your post here, its the community thats keeping WoW alive right now, and in my opion, its that same community that will bring it down.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I am afraid you are completely right how does one MMO kill another?Your point is greatly appreciated as i will spend the rest of my night pondering on how it is possible thanks for the statement!
"how do you kill that which has no life ?"
sorry had to
Anyway WOW will never die just like EQ and Ultima it could turn to absolute crap (IMO it already is and always has been) but it will still always have a loyal following who will just not move on until the day the final server closes.
I have great news for poster #21, when he / she writes :
"Congrats you just described EQ and the company that began that process. I think you need to re-direct your disdain for that "end-game" based expansions to SOE and not Blizzard."
Guess what ? The guys who are deciding on WoW's design are the former elite players from EQ : Kaplan was Tigole, guild leader of Legacy of Steel, for example. At some point Furor (Fires of Heaven) joined the project, and so on...
So congratulations for your awareness ! You're perfectly right, EQ and WOW have the same problems regarding endgame and progression, but that's just because WOW's endgame and progression are a copy-paste of what used to be EQ's endgame and progression until Planes of Power (I dont know how it went afterwards, and how it is nowadays).
I don't know if that is enough to say Aion's endgame will be any different, I have no idea. But at least you now know the reason why WOW and EQ are so much alike...
There wont be any one factor that kills wow it ll be a number of things . Aion will reduce the number of WOW players as will the new Star Wars mmo ( and many other as yet to be released mmos for that matter ) . Boredom with Warcraft will also lead players to give it up . WoW will look increasingly dated in the coming years so time will be another factor .Also Blizzard tend to be aiming the game at an increasingly younger and casual userbase so short term gains over long term gameplay will lead to less people playing eventually .
Aions not the WOWkiller .But it is the first nail in its coffin . Of course i could be totally wrong and if AION becomes the in game among children , pier pressure may come into play and it may become the in game to play . If you suddenly become uncool at school for playing WOW then that ll lead to a vast exodus from the game . I personally dont think thats likly to happen but you never know .