"Player skill"

tbox

MMO pvp Fans and mmo devs use the words like it is going to require a lot of player skill over time put in.   What I find as a major problem with a catch phrase is that  What about "group skill" or "group tactics"  or "group pre pvp and pvp encounter strategy".  Player skill is a factor but shit I don't play MMO because I want to become the fastest mouse clicker.   Thanks for reading my rant.

Inzra

I'd say player skill is more than mouseclicking tho, and group tactics require some player skill too, if it's open for more ways than one to overcome the task.

To me player skill is not just how fast you are, but what combination of skills/spells you do, how you use all options that you have before you. A game that opens for many options to solve the same thing, I would say require player skill, at least in PvP.

 

Beatnik59

I think most measures of "player skill" have to do with odds-leveraging in one way or another, ie, what combination of powers, gear, buffs, group composition, etc. gives out maximum advantage in kill/loss ratios?

To me at least, that's easy; and frankly, not very impressive.

I tend to see player skill as the ability to bring to life interesting characters.  That, to me, requires an amount of creativity and depth.  I can find a thousand min/maxers and they all play and act pretty much the same.  But someone who creates a unique character who adds to the immersion and is fun to be around?  That's impressive!

Sadly, we don't have many games that encourage players to create interesting characters.  That's because they are all made by businessmen who themselves are boring, and only understand min/maxing.

tbox

  "Originally posted by Inzra

I'd say player skill is more than mouseclicking tho, and group tactics require some player skill too, if it's open for more ways than one to overcome the task.

To me player skill is not just how fast you are, but what combination of skills/spells you do, how you use all options that you have before you. A game that opens for many options to solve the same thing, I would say require player skill, at least in PvP."

 

 

Yeah I agree that you have a broader defination but I worry that devs and mmo's now and in the future don't have such an outlook.    For example  In Darkfall I found the group pvp and large scale fights seemed to be very limited on strategy other then the basic abilities. There was a  lack of use of support spells on other players, no skill cap so everyone could have the same skills and little group abilities outside aoe damage, and a very small amout of aoe healing.    I fear that Mortal online with it's first person combat system may suffer the same fate. Although, I have not played it.   In Darkfall I never felt like large fights were anything other then a brainless shark like feeding frenzy.    I fear that Mortal online may suffer the same fate.   I miss Shadowbane and the tactics, planning, strategy and group skill that was invloved in being successful.  I don't want to fight these heros of  1v1 combat who just happen to have 5 other such players with them. I  want to compete against teams that act as a group not as a mass of individuals.

 

 

"I think most measures of "player skill" have to do with odds-leveraging in one way or another, ie, what combination of powers, gear, buffs, group composition, etc. gives out maximum advantage in kill/loss ratios?

To me at least, that's easy; and frankly, not very impressive.

I tend to see player skill as the ability to bring to life interesting characters. That, to me, requires an amount of creativity and depth. I can find a thousand min/maxers and they all play and act pretty much the same. But someone who creates a unique character who adds to the immersion and is fun to be around? That's impressive!

Sadly, we don't have many games that encourage players to create interesting characters. That's because they are all made by businessmen who themselves are boring, and only understand min/maxing."

 

Min maxing can be very imaginative if the game has enough  skills that allow for many ways to win a pvp encounter.    Imaginative and creativity  are not like fire and water to a min maxer.  It is just  most mmo's that have pvp have such limited skill choices/ character ability options that the creativity and imagination are not in harmony.  In fact Min Maxing is basically a group and single player strategy element that is important if their is enough options. 

Jairoe03

I would say the definition of "player skill" is subjective in itself and its really all too broad to use it so loosely in terms of generalizing it within the MMORPG. As put already by some within this thread, this can be timing of appropriate skills, mouseclicks and manipulating an avatar within an environment, reacting to circumstances/situations properly or proper combination of strategy and coordination in lieu with a group of other members.

There is just too many aspects within an MMORPG to even use words like "skill". There's a character's design/setup, equipment, move sets amongst other things that could be included and mixed in with just the sole control of an avatar and how do you attribute between 1 being greater than another to just skill alone (or 1 attribute alone) when there are so many other factors to include. I don't think player skill is an appropriate word to use within the MMORPG genre as opposed to a genre like FPS since MMORPG tends to mix in strategy and other elements more specialized to specific characters into its gameplay whereas FPS is just guns and equipment accessible to everyone with a much more focused goal (via CTF or deathmatch etc.).

You can easily attribute skill in something like an FPS, not in an MMORPG.

EDIT: I do share the same sentiments about min-maxing and more involved ways to incorporate multiple members in combat. I think this is probably that big step that many other developers are looking for ways to get over to further evolve where we are at today. We finally got lots of people to play in a single world/environment/universe (more or less to different extents) and made MMORPG's a major thing. I don't think the industry has had enough time to take things a step further just yet. I do like the way Mortal Online at least presents itself in terms of not having optimal setups (or at least its a goal of theres a per their recent interview). I like those type of things where you get to create your own unique style and I think I just been "sandbox starved" as of lately since I only been playing WoW recently, I will be back on EVE soon...soon.