Originally posted by Eanok In my book the Upkeep is an artificial control mechanism limiting the maximum size of a claimed portion of space. This in turn may free big chuncks of space wich will be undefended, underdeveloped and up for grabs, possibly luring smaller corps/alliances into 0.0 (that's the idea anyway).
This is flawed, short sighted logic.
Small aliances will always be eaten by larger ones, via conquering or merge. That is something you can't really change. The space will always be dominated by large faction at some point.
The point is, in the current system the defense demands does not really scales up with empire space because of all bridges, jammers and timers.
The Upkeep system does not help this issue.
Originally posted by Eanok Anyway, if it doesn't work, it can be tweaked, improved or revamped again.
If the same people who broke the thing due complete ignorance about the game are supposed to fix it... Just look at speed changes and the state of blaster/sniper boats after a year.
'Ups, I broke it but no worries I will fix it at some point!' is not really good way how to do things.
Originally posted by Gdemami Small aliances will always be eaten by larger ones, via conquering or merge.
That is something you can't really change. The space will always be dominated by large faction at some point.
When conquering too much space becomes too expensive because of large upkeep cost a large faction will stop expanding for the sake of expanding. The only solution to keep expanding in a profitable way is to bring in more people into their space, be it by merging or by increasing their ranks. It doesn't matter how, but unless a large alliance increases their rank and base numbers, at some point conquering more space will be not only pointless, it will be an expensive burden.
The whole thing is meant to bring more people into 0.0. It doesn't matter whether the new settlers are a small independent corp paying rent to a large alliance or if that small corp joins that large alliance. The net effect is that more empire dwellers may make 0.0 their new home.
Anyway, what alternatives are there to bring a number of empire pilots out of their cozy high-sec systems?
PS: I'm with you in that I don't see how the new mechanics will improve the way actual conquering works. Info is not very clear about it and I also have my doubts that it will work as expected. I'll be in the test server to see first hand how the whole thing works.
so none of your care about the grid exploits ? XD Starbases, Outposts and Stations
* Bookmarks can no longer be placed in starbase structures.
All I know about grids is in this manual. (It is open knowledge as it was posted in the official forums by a goon quite some time ago). What is the grid exploit you are talking about? I'm curious to know.
Seriously CCP has to be the sickest bunch of developers on the planet.
These freaking guys go above and beyond.
They're taking the one feature in Eve that would mistakingly be called "Endgame" and smashing it into a lateral progression system that can be expanded apon forever just like every other system in the game.
CCP Adding more sand to the box with every expansion.
SSSHHHHHHHH !!! SSSSSSHHHHHH !!! Thats a sin they would call us hardcore players for playing Eve's sandbox. The next gen of mmo players say that the new SW:TOR is a sandbox.
Originally posted by Eanok The only solution to keep expanding in a profitable way is to bring in more people into their space, be it by merging or by increasing their ranks. It doesn't matter how, but unless a large alliance increases their rank and base numbers, at some point conquering more space will be not only pointless, it will be an expensive burden.
There is another solution of course, mutual pacts and subsidiary aliance.
Even though not being 1 body, you can control entire regions.
Upkeep is essentialy pointless and easily overcome by metagaming.
Upkeep is essentialy pointless and easily overcome by metagaming.
You're right of course. As another forum member said a few days ago:
"When presented with an obstacle, a -good- EvE player will look at it from all angles and then metagame the fuck out of it."
Anyway Gdemany, I think I understand your point.
You say that there will be ways for an alliance to control vast territories. I guess you are right, upkeep won't prevent that. Any competent alliance should be able to adapt to the new situation, established alliances won't easily leave their turfs and therefore there won't be many unclaimed systems for new settlers. Big alliances will probably dominate the landscape as today.
Still, to keep control over these vast territories now will have a cost. If upkeep is expensive, the upkeep paying owner will want to minimize or offset that expense. Developing those systems and taxing those profiting from them is the easiest way, but it requires pilots moving from empire to the now mostly empty 0.0 systems.
Balancing the Upkeep cost won't be easy. Too cheap and a powerful alliance will have enough resources from its moons to pay the upkeep of dozens of empty systems with ease, therefore not bringing any new settlers to nulsec. Too expensive and 0.0 becomes unprofitable, driving off people from nulsec.
Originally posted by Eanok Still, to keep control over these vast territories now will have a cost. If upkeep is expensive, the upkeep paying owner will want to minimize or offset that expense. Developing those systems and taxing those profiting from them is the easiest way, but it requires pilots moving from empire to the now mostly empty 0.0 systems.Balancing the Upkeep cost won't be easy. Too cheap and a powerful alliance will have enough resources from its moons to pay the upkeep of dozens of empty systems with ease, therefore not bringing any new settlers to nulsec. Too expensive and 0.0 becomes unprofitable, driving off people from nulsec. I'm curious to see how all this develops.
I really wonder where you optimism comes from when all odds are against it
I really wonder where you optimism comes from when all odds are against it
'Cos no other game has given me more in terms of immersion and replayability.
'Cos I have enjoyed the changes and additions to the game since I started it, from overloading (which saved my ass a couple of times), the (now obsolete) sovereignty levels (quite an improvement when they were first introduced), the improved graphics we got in trinity and the ones we keep on getting, the filtering options in the overview, the expanding lore including the book and chronicles (they also add to my enjoyment of the game), the weapon grouping, the introduction of w-space that has provided a nice change of pace from the standard exploration...
'Cos I have stayed clear from the additions I din't like (I couldn't care less about FW for example).
'Cos every nerf has meant a different ship, or fitting has gotten a boost and has provided a nice excuse to fly something new and try a different set of tactics.
I guess it all boils down to oneself. I rather approach changes, even potentially bad ones, as challenges. And if one day CCP messes the game so much that I stop enjoying it, I'll just quit and play something different. So far they have managed to keep the game fresh a new with almost every change. I think I'm gonna enjoy this new change too.
Originally posted by schawo I like the new sov system very much. It will make 0.0 a better playground for smaller corps, allys. Dominion will be the best expansion since RMR.
If you don't have enough power to hold a space now, you won't have it with new changes either.
I like the new sov system very much. It will make 0.0 a better playground for smaller corps, allys. Dominion will be the best expansion since RMR.
If you don't have enough power to hold a space now, you won't have it with new changes either.
you know this how exactly? ATM smaller alliances cant grab sov because they would have to take it from a larger alliance. With Dominion, big alliances lose their sov due to immense amount of upkeep of so many systems. They lose sov, Smaller alliances move in unopposed, then they have sov with a enemy or ally right next to them.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I like the new sov system very much. It will make 0.0 a better playground for smaller corps, allys. Dominion will be the best expansion since RMR.
If you don't have enough power to hold a space now, you won't have it with new changes either.
You will be able to cause damage to larger alliances. Attackers will need the help of smaller teams to spread the opponents forces. Will mercenaries be back?
Originally posted by schawo You will be able to cause damage to larger alliances. Attackers will need the help of smaller teams to spread the opponents forces. Will mercenaries be back?
Cause damage to larger allances? Are you joking? Only one who needs to spread are attackers...
you know this how exactly? ATM smaller alliances cant grab sov because they would have to take it from a larger alliance. With Dominion, big alliances lose their sov due to immense amount of upkeep of so many systems. They lose sov, Smaller alliances move in unopposed, then they have sov with a enemy or ally right next to them.
Yes, there might be more free space, there might be small alliance claiming a system.
What makes you think that stronger alliance will not come and wipe them out?
Even if they don't claim the space, they just burn down everything in the system and camp it.
you know this how exactly? ATM smaller alliances cant grab sov because they would have to take it from a larger alliance. With Dominion, big alliances lose their sov due to immense amount of upkeep of so many systems. They lose sov, Smaller alliances move in unopposed, then they have sov with a enemy or ally right next to them.
Yes, there might be more free space, there might be small alliance claiming a system.
What makes you think that stronger alliance will not come and wipe them out?
Even if they don't claim the space, they just burn down everything in the system and camp it.
Unavoidable food chain.
What exactly is your problem with the upkeep system? I'm not trying to be snide, that's a real question. So far the only thing I've seen that you've wrote is that its "retarded".
Over expanding is suppose to be a very real threat for any empire. With jump-bridges and such being common place in the game today, the actual logistics of moving fleets to defend large portions of space isn't as much of a problem as it used to be. I think that's great, losing territory because you can't move ships to defend fast enough is pretty lame on both sides of the engagement, but there needs to be some limiting factor that keeps alliances from expanding for the mere purpose of expanding.
An economic limit makes sense within the spirit of the game. After all, if you don't have the player resources to make additional isk from taking an additional system... why take it? The obvious answer is to deny your competition and secure surrounding space... but that should come at a lasting cost.
It seems to me that the upkeep costs are likely to be negated by upgrading the space you own and having the player resources to take advantage of those upgrades. That seems like a pretty solid concept in my opinion. Especially if upgrading space starts to make nulsec so rewarding that it becomes difficult for even high-sec players to ignore the potential profit.
You do realize (I assume) that every time there is any change or proposed change in Eve you come here and post that the game is doomed and the sky is falling?
You also belittle everyone that disagrees with you.
While I have not enjoyed all the changes that CCP has made over the years, by and large CCP has created an incredible and evolving virtual world that is without equal in the world.
Do you complain this much in real life? If you do you must drive your coworkers/ friends/ family insane.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Originally posted by Enkindu Gdemami- You do realize (I assume) that every time there is any change or proposed change in Eve you come here and post that the game is doomed and the sky is falling? You also belittle everyone that disagrees with you.
While I have not enjoyed all the changes that CCP has made over the years, by and large CCP has created an incredible and evolving virtual world that is without equal in the world.
Do you complain this much in real life? If you do you must drive your coworkers/ friends/ family insane.
Enkindu, with no offense, you're a carebear. It doesn't matter to you how the game is because all you are interested is PVE aspect of the game. Only you have to do is to adpat to some changes that are relevant to your playstyle but the subject of your interested is unchanged.
Speed change is not touching you since you don't PVP. T3 production chain is not touching you because you will do not intend to use the ships in PVP, where they are supposed to be used. Sovereintgy change is not touching you since you will not fight for space.
You do realize (I assume) that every time there is any change or proposed change in Eve you come here and post that the game is doomed ...?
Enkindu, [ ... ]You will praise whatever CCP says.
Well, we gamers come in all kinds. Enkindu and myself look at every new change with expectation, trying to find the good in it. Gdemami is smart enough to find all kind of troubles it will cause to the game. Where we enjoy news about updates and changes, Gdemami fears them. To me it is kind of sad to fear every patch and expansion 'cos CCP are such an incompetent bunch.
I'm sorry for Gdemami, stuck in a game produced and managed by an incompetent mob prone to destroy its gameplay beyond repair. Maybe you should find a better game instead of investing your game time in a doomed game like EvE? A game with smart devs who really care about their player base?
Originally posted by comerb What exactly is your problem with the upkeep system? I'm not trying to be snide, that's a real question. So far the only thing I've seen that you've wrote is that its "retarded".
I explained my resoning in this thread already.
However, Upkeep is restrictive, artificial barrier slowing the game dynamics. Also it turns the game into sort of labour actively working against orgiginal intention of populating the space.
Originally posted by Gdemami Expansion for sake of expansion is the best thing to keep the game in constant dynamics. The Upkeep is an articifial control mechanism limiting expansion efforts. Less expansion means less fighting, less ship produced, less need to fight for resources.
Originally posted by comerb Over expanding is suppose to be a very real threat for any empire. With jump-bridges and such being common place in the game today, the actual logistics of moving fleets to defend large portions of space isn't as much of a problem as it used to be. I think that's great, losing territory because you can't move ships to defend fast enough is pretty lame on both sides of the engagement, but there needs to be some limiting factor that keeps alliances from expanding for the mere purpose of expanding.
Losing territory because you can't defend is lame? How come?
I agree that expanding should bring some drawbaks, Upkeep is not the way to do it.
The real issue is this:
Originally posted by comerb The point is, in the current system the defense demands does not really scales up with empire space because of all bridges, jammers and timers.
Originally posted by comerb An economic limit makes sense within the spirit of the game. After all, if you don't have the player resources to make additional isk from taking an additional system... why take it? The obvious answer is to deny your competition and secure surrounding space... but that should come at a lasting cost. It seems to me that the upkeep costs are likely to be negated by upgrading the space you own and having the player resources to take advantage of those upgrades. That seems like a pretty solid concept in my opinion. Especially if upgrading space starts to make nulsec so rewarding that it becomes difficult for even high-sec players to ignore the potential profit.
Economy is not what EVE is build upon. Economy is the tool to connect every player with the game objective - PVP.
Upkeep has nothing to do with economy since the ISK put in upkeep are not returning. They will vanish.
Why take it? Because you can. It is as simple as that. Gaining a space for resources is only one reason for war effort and I would say it is not even a primary one. People fight for space because space represents your power.
The current suggested changes as I see it is an effort to make 0.0 more of high-sec - a player driven themepark for carebears if you want. You contest a space and create opportunities for bears to run plexes, mine, run their own labs and production lines, etc. At the same time, you implement incredibely though contesting mechanics, upkeep mechanics and nerf capitals, that will assure that alliance will use as small space as possible and because of higher density, that space will be better protected offering carebears and industrial people desired safety.
This how the concept is supposed to work thought-out, imo. Otherwise it is just another pure fail due ignorance.
In both cases, it's bad because the game will lose the dynamics. It effectively kills territorial wars. Because you will need to split your military effort between expansion and active protection your space.
It is the same stupid mindest behind this changes as it was behind the speed nerf.
Well, we gamers come in all kinds. Enkindu and myself look at every new change with expectation, trying to find the good in it. Gdemami is smart enough to find all kind of troubles it will cause to the game. Where we enjoy news about updates and changes, Gdemami fears them. To me it is kind of sad to fear every patch and expansion 'cos CCP are such an incompetent bunch. I'm sorry for Gdemami, stuck in a game produced and managed by an incompetent mob prone to destroy its gameplay beyond repair. Maybe you should find a better game instead of investing your game time in a doomed game like EvE? A game with smart devs who really care about their player base? Just an idea. ;-)
I am not sying it with any offense, the carebears are as important to the game as PVPer or any other folks alike.
This is not about fear. This is about reasonable evaluation of the changes. Speed changes were a fail. T3 production was a fail. Sov changes have good chance of being fail too because it follows same pattern and repeats the same mistakes.
Your only argument for those changes is that CCP made some many great stuff in before. Truth is they did not, but those changes were not affecting you thus you can't really say.
While you have your prays and hopes to mighty CCP, I prefer to use my own brain...
Edit: One little note about Dev competency: At the live dev blog last year, CCP Nozh stated that he will fly his Blastertron fitted with afterburner to take advantage of the awesome speed changes!
You can imagine a plated boat with optimal of 4.5km slowboating 350m/s whole 30km to get to the target.
and you scrutinize whatever CCP says/does. We understand you dont like change, maybe you should find another game that doesnt change so much. I dont even know why you play anymore if everything CCP has done to the game has been for the worse in your point of view.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Originally posted by tvalentine and you scrutinize whatever CCP says/does. We understand you dont like change, maybe you should find another game that doesnt change so much. I dont even know why you play anymore if everything CCP has done to the game has been for the worse in your point of view.
Surely, once CCP screws the game to the point that is not acceptable for me, I will vote with my wallet such as many others did before...
Comments
This is flawed, short sighted logic.
Small aliances will always be eaten by larger ones, via conquering or merge.
That is something you can't really change. The space will always be dominated by large faction at some point.
The point is, in the current system the defense demands does not really scales up with empire space because of all bridges, jammers and timers.
The Upkeep system does not help this issue.
If the same people who broke the thing due complete ignorance about the game are supposed to fix it...
Just look at speed changes and the state of blaster/sniper boats after a year.
'Ups, I broke it but no worries I will fix it at some point!' is not really good way how to do things.
so none of your care about the grid exploits ? XD
notes here www.eveonline.com/updates/intesting.asp
Features
Starbases, Outposts and Stations
* Bookmarks can no longer be placed in starbase structures.
Fixes
Starbases, Outposts and Stations
* In some instances an attack notification EVE-mail was not sent when a starbase was under attack. This has now been fixed.
* Jump Portal Generators and Covert Jump Portal Generators now detail the use of isotopes to fuel the portal jumps by fleet members.
* An issue where the fuel usage for onlining an Experimental Laboratory Module was incorrectly calculated has been fixed.
BestSigEver :P
When conquering too much space becomes too expensive because of large upkeep cost a large faction will stop expanding for the sake of expanding. The only solution to keep expanding in a profitable way is to bring in more people into their space, be it by merging or by increasing their ranks. It doesn't matter how, but unless a large alliance increases their rank and base numbers, at some point conquering more space will be not only pointless, it will be an expensive burden.
The whole thing is meant to bring more people into 0.0. It doesn't matter whether the new settlers are a small independent corp paying rent to a large alliance or if that small corp joins that large alliance. The net effect is that more empire dwellers may make 0.0 their new home.
Anyway, what alternatives are there to bring a number of empire pilots out of their cozy high-sec systems?
PS: I'm with you in that I don't see how the new mechanics will improve the way actual conquering works. Info is not very clear about it and I also have my doubts that it will work as expected. I'll be in the test server to see first hand how the whole thing works.
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
All I know about grids is in this manual. (It is open knowledge as it was posted in the official forums by a goon quite some time ago). What is the grid exploit you are talking about? I'm curious to know.
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
SSSHHHHHHHH !!! SSSSSSHHHHHH !!! Thats a sin they would call us hardcore players for playing Eve's sandbox. The next gen of mmo players say that the new SW:TOR is a sandbox.
There is another solution of course, mutual pacts and subsidiary aliance.
Even though not being 1 body, you can control entire regions.
Upkeep is essentialy pointless and easily overcome by metagaming.
You're right of course. As another forum member said a few days ago:
"When presented with an obstacle, a -good- EvE player will look at it from all angles and then metagame the fuck out of it."
Anyway Gdemany, I think I understand your point.
You say that there will be ways for an alliance to control vast territories. I guess you are right, upkeep won't prevent that. Any competent alliance should be able to adapt to the new situation, established alliances won't easily leave their turfs and therefore there won't be many unclaimed systems for new settlers. Big alliances will probably dominate the landscape as today.
Still, to keep control over these vast territories now will have a cost. If upkeep is expensive, the upkeep paying owner will want to minimize or offset that expense. Developing those systems and taxing those profiting from them is the easiest way, but it requires pilots moving from empire to the now mostly empty 0.0 systems.
Balancing the Upkeep cost won't be easy. Too cheap and a powerful alliance will have enough resources from its moons to pay the upkeep of dozens of empty systems with ease, therefore not bringing any new settlers to nulsec. Too expensive and 0.0 becomes unprofitable, driving off people from nulsec.
I'm curious to see how all this develops.
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
I really wonder where you optimism comes from when all odds are against it
'Cos no other game has given me more in terms of immersion and replayability.
'Cos I have enjoyed the changes and additions to the game since I started it, from overloading (which saved my ass a couple of times), the (now obsolete) sovereignty levels (quite an improvement when they were first introduced), the improved graphics we got in trinity and the ones we keep on getting, the filtering options in the overview, the expanding lore including the book and chronicles (they also add to my enjoyment of the game), the weapon grouping, the introduction of w-space that has provided a nice change of pace from the standard exploration...
'Cos I have stayed clear from the additions I din't like (I couldn't care less about FW for example).
'Cos every nerf has meant a different ship, or fitting has gotten a boost and has provided a nice excuse to fly something new and try a different set of tactics.
I guess it all boils down to oneself. I rather approach changes, even potentially bad ones, as challenges. And if one day CCP messes the game so much that I stop enjoying it, I'll just quit and play something different. So far they have managed to keep the game fresh a new with almost every change. I think I'm gonna enjoy this new change too.
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
I like the new sov system very much. It will make 0.0 a better playground for smaller corps, allys. Dominion will be the best expansion since RMR.
If you don't have enough power to hold a space now, you won't have it with new changes either.
If you don't have enough power to hold a space now, you won't have it with new changes either.
you know this how exactly? ATM smaller alliances cant grab sov because they would have to take it from a larger alliance. With Dominion, big alliances lose their sov due to immense amount of upkeep of so many systems. They lose sov, Smaller alliances move in unopposed, then they have sov with a enemy or ally right next to them.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
If you don't have enough power to hold a space now, you won't have it with new changes either.
You will be able to cause damage to larger alliances. Attackers will need the help of smaller teams to spread the opponents forces. Will mercenaries be back?
Cause damage to larger allances? Are you joking?
Only one who needs to spread are attackers...
Yes, there might be more free space, there might be small alliance claiming a system.
What makes you think that stronger alliance will not come and wipe them out?
Even if they don't claim the space, they just burn down everything in the system and camp it.
Unavoidable food chain.
Yes, there might be more free space, there might be small alliance claiming a system.
What makes you think that stronger alliance will not come and wipe them out?
Even if they don't claim the space, they just burn down everything in the system and camp it.
Unavoidable food chain.
What exactly is your problem with the upkeep system? I'm not trying to be snide, that's a real question. So far the only thing I've seen that you've wrote is that its "retarded".
Over expanding is suppose to be a very real threat for any empire. With jump-bridges and such being common place in the game today, the actual logistics of moving fleets to defend large portions of space isn't as much of a problem as it used to be. I think that's great, losing territory because you can't move ships to defend fast enough is pretty lame on both sides of the engagement, but there needs to be some limiting factor that keeps alliances from expanding for the mere purpose of expanding.
An economic limit makes sense within the spirit of the game. After all, if you don't have the player resources to make additional isk from taking an additional system... why take it? The obvious answer is to deny your competition and secure surrounding space... but that should come at a lasting cost.
It seems to me that the upkeep costs are likely to be negated by upgrading the space you own and having the player resources to take advantage of those upgrades. That seems like a pretty solid concept in my opinion. Especially if upgrading space starts to make nulsec so rewarding that it becomes difficult for even high-sec players to ignore the potential profit.
Gdemami-
You do realize (I assume) that every time there is any change or proposed change in Eve you come here and post that the game is doomed and the sky is falling?
You also belittle everyone that disagrees with you.
While I have not enjoyed all the changes that CCP has made over the years, by and large CCP has created an incredible and evolving virtual world that is without equal in the world.
Do you complain this much in real life? If you do you must drive your coworkers/ friends/ family insane.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
Enkindu, with no offense, you're a carebear. It doesn't matter to you how the game is because all you are interested is PVE aspect of the game. Only you have to do is to adpat to some changes that are relevant to your playstyle but the subject of your interested is unchanged.
Speed change is not touching you since you don't PVP.
T3 production chain is not touching you because you will do not intend to use the ships in PVP, where they are supposed to be used.
Sovereintgy change is not touching you since you will not fight for space.
You will praise whatever CCP says.
Enkindu, [ ... ]You will praise whatever CCP says.
Well, we gamers come in all kinds. Enkindu and myself look at every new change with expectation, trying to find the good in it. Gdemami is smart enough to find all kind of troubles it will cause to the game. Where we enjoy news about updates and changes, Gdemami fears them. To me it is kind of sad to fear every patch and expansion 'cos CCP are such an incompetent bunch.
I'm sorry for Gdemami, stuck in a game produced and managed by an incompetent mob prone to destroy its gameplay beyond repair. Maybe you should find a better game instead of investing your game time in a doomed game like EvE? A game with smart devs who really care about their player base?
Just an idea. ;-)
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW
I explained my resoning in this thread already.
However, Upkeep is restrictive, artificial barrier slowing the game dynamics. Also it turns the game into sort of labour actively working against orgiginal intention of populating the space.
Losing territory because you can't defend is lame? How come?
I agree that expanding should bring some drawbaks, Upkeep is not the way to do it.
The real issue is this:
Economy is not what EVE is build upon. Economy is the tool to connect every player with the game objective - PVP.
Upkeep has nothing to do with economy since the ISK put in upkeep are not returning. They will vanish.
Why take it? Because you can. It is as simple as that. Gaining a space for resources is only one reason for war effort and I would say it is not even a primary one. People fight for space because space represents your power.
The current suggested changes as I see it is an effort to make 0.0 more of high-sec - a player driven themepark for carebears if you want.
You contest a space and create opportunities for bears to run plexes, mine, run their own labs and production lines, etc.
At the same time, you implement incredibely though contesting mechanics, upkeep mechanics and nerf capitals, that will assure that alliance will use as small space as possible and because of higher density, that space will be better protected offering carebears and industrial people desired safety.
This how the concept is supposed to work thought-out, imo. Otherwise it is just another pure fail due ignorance.
In both cases, it's bad because the game will lose the dynamics. It effectively kills territorial wars. Because you will need to split your military effort between expansion and active protection your space.
It is the same stupid mindest behind this changes as it was behind the speed nerf.
I believe that at this point I am now reasonably entitled to ask:
Can I have your stuff?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I am not sying it with any offense, the carebears are as important to the game as PVPer or any other folks alike.
This is not about fear. This is about reasonable evaluation of the changes.
Speed changes were a fail.
T3 production was a fail.
Sov changes have good chance of being fail too because it follows same pattern and repeats the same mistakes.
Your only argument for those changes is that CCP made some many great stuff in before. Truth is they did not, but those changes were not affecting you thus you can't really say.
While you have your prays and hopes to mighty CCP, I prefer to use my own brain...
Edit:
One little note about Dev competency:
At the live dev blog last year, CCP Nozh stated that he will fly his Blastertron fitted with afterburner to take advantage of the awesome speed changes!
You can imagine a plated boat with optimal of 4.5km slowboating 350m/s whole 30km to get to the target.
I think that's enough said...
and you scrutinize whatever CCP says/does. We understand you dont like change, maybe you should find another game that doesnt change so much. I dont even know why you play anymore if everything CCP has done to the game has been for the worse in your point of view.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Surely, once CCP screws the game to the point that is not acceptable for me, I will vote with my wallet such as many others did before...
Sooo... why you keep investing your time and money in this doomed game? If I where you I would have jumped wagon some time ago, honest.
Played: UO, SWG, TR, WoW, AoC, EvE
Playing:
Interested in: JGE, LotR, TSW