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How restricted is progress?
Paincake
Member Posts: 139
in EVE Online
What I heard so far is that time investment won't reward progress in EvE. So is the progress that you can make capped in someway or form?
In most MMO's new players can catch up, and if they are really dedicated get in tp experience end-game content. Will dedication reward in EvE? I'm not really sure what type of game EvE is. The game attracts and appeals to me... I really want to play it further then the tutorial. But for some reason I haven't gotten that far yet in my 3 different trials so far. Wil I get discouraged? Is there a fighting chance? Even if that means I have to go trough difficult period, how will I fare later on?
Comments
eve is a sort of casual hardcore game. it has a huge learning curve but on the positive side you are always training skills even when you arent playing. what i have found is after a few months you should be able to at least compete with some dedicated players if you find your niche. the grind comes to the money (isk) in the game. Getting money can be the hardest thing to save up to purchase the items you want. so on one hand yes there is time invested to get the money to buy your stuff but on the other it isnt a constant grind like in a game such as wow where you have to play 24/7 to level up. ive been playing for about 7 months now and am definitely competitive in my field
Alright a couple of things that might help you out:
1. There is a theroetical cap to a players skillpoints but it is so rediculous that no one will more and likely ever attain it outside of working for CCP. That said each ship has a very solid and defenitive max amount of skillpoints that can be used, While to reach the absolute maximum effectiveness can take a significant amount of time. You can get within 80-90% of the maximum effectiveness of most ships with in 1-6 months starting from scratch. Now that underlined part is important as quite a few ships share similar skills so that while the first ship may take 2-3 months to get to that 80-90% mark another ship may only take an additional week to get to the same level of compentency skill point wise.
2. Now most people that say time investment won't reward progress in eve only look at the SP system. Technically you can never leave station and learn every skill in the game to max. Realistically with out investing time you won't progress anywhere in the real measure of progress in eve which is the almighty Isk. In order to be able to buy those nice skills, out fit your ship with better mods you need to be working to make isk to purchase them. That is where your time investments will pay off. The more your willing to put into the game the farther ahead you will be.
I guess my biggest suggestion is to not put your progress on your skillpoints as a character but as a indication of assets that you have. Make goals initaily for breaking higher and higher amounts of isk.
I like that. My playstyle always involves in specializing in ecenomy. I'm mostly interested in currency. Not so much in PvP, but i have the patience to deal with it anyway.
I accept that sometimes you will lose ships, what happens to my progress? How bad am I penalized?
If you fly a ship, make sure you have the cash to replace it or have some alternative backup ship. Then there is very little penalty to loosing that ship.
Don't fly what you can't afford to loose.
If you lose a ship, your penalty is the loss of a ship and its cargo of course. You'll have to buy a new ship then. (it's also the reason why i buy pvp ships in bulk..)
If you lose money while playing the market, you lose money.
It's honestly that simple.
Also, what do you mean with "progress"? Which "progress" are you speaking of?
The skills and items you invest in your ship. Its probably not, otherwise losing a ship would mean starting from scratch. That sounds over the top :P
I used to play the auction house in WoW with auctioneer. But EvE online is probably more focused on ecenomy, so thats why I'm attracted. And other reasons too of course
here is a report on the in game economy in eve
http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/pdf/QEN_Q2-2009.pdf
The great joy of EVE is that there is more than one sort of PvP, the economy is completely player driven and therefore can be player manipulated, hence economic PvP is, in a limited respect, a realistic playstyle. Just don't mention it to the pew pew PvP'ers as they tend to get rather heated about the subject ;-)
Omg, some of those screens looks jawdropping. Especially the lightning. I wonder if it looks like that in-game :O
In the trials I played also after Apocrypha the game looked beautifull. But I can't recall it looking that incredible.
Anyways, yes this report really testifies the complexity of the way the economy is structured in EvE online. Its not just a game, its more then that, wich I personally like.
The great joy of EVE is that there is more than one sort of PvP, the economy is completely player driven and therefore can be player manipulated, hence economic PvP is, in a limited respect, a realistic playstyle. Just don't mention it to the pew pew PvP'ers as they tend to get rather heated about the subject ;-)
The thing is. I was rather involved in WoW economy, and I was using a monopoly strategy on the Auction House. Buying out everything that was low priced, and placing all items from my own. I think I took it a little too far because with the amount of gold I earned I had that power.
After a few days a GM whispered me to stop using the strategy. Although I still do it, just more inconspicious.
I'm personally pretty excited about this project ambulation I've seen on youtube from a CCP conference.
EvE is by far the most potential MMO on the market. If CCP continues with their vision, it will not be out of date for a loooong while. Can't believe how flexible their engine must be.
perfectly allowable in EVE.
the thing is that there is a lot of other people with your same idea, that will try to rip off your profits.
The important part is that EVE's potentional is not wasted.
WoW 'economy' is laughable. If you like this sort of things, you will love EVE.
Regarding game progress, there is no progress apart from your own effort spent on goals you set for yourself.
I recently bumped into interesting quote regarding grinding game mechanics:
'The idea of having a designed in-game aspect which is likely to become repetitive and boring seems contradictory to good game design, but has been justified in several different ways. The first is that it helps ensure a level playing field. According to the Pareto principle, players with better aim, faster reactions, or more extensive tactical knowledge will quickly dominate the entire game, frustrating the now-powerless vast majority. Thus, by creating a direct correlation between in-game power and time spent grinding, every player will at least have the potential to reach the top 20% (although the Pareto principle will still apply to the amount of time spent grinding). '
EVE rewards the smart and skilled, that is what makes the game so fun and hated.
Visions can be as inspiring as disasterous...
EvE has the largest and most developed economy of any MMO. You can engage in what is probably the most ruthless form of PvP without ever getting in a ship. Trading skills are some of the most easily acquired, as well. You can get the entire Trading tree in a few months, and not many people bother doing that.
EvE's system is time based. You select a skill and start training it. It trains at the same rate regardless of what you are doing, even if you're not logged in. Whilst at first glance this may make is seem like you can "never catch up", as other posters have said this is not the case because skills are capped. A lot of people come from other MMOs and think that SP are like XP; 1M SP = level, 10M SP = level 10, 50M SP = level 50 etc. Not so. It's more like 50M SP = level 5+5+5+5+5+5+4+4+4+4... where level 4 is 95% as good as level 5 anyway.
Another mistake that is often made is to think that character advancement is the game. This is less true in EvE than most games. What you do is much more important than what you have. This is why people who think they will shortcut themselves to uberness by paying a few hundred quid for a 50M SP character (this can be done legitimately) are not so much of a problem, more of a source of comedy. They dont have the player skills or the game knowledge to properly take advantage of their purchased abilities.
But eventually, you will lose a ship. You'll lose the ship and everything in it. That's all. That's why you see experienced EvE players saying over and over again: DONT FLY WHAT YOU CANT AFFORD TO LOSE.
Another rule to live by is NEVER GO AFK IN SPACE - or if you do, dont be surprised to wake up in a station.
And most important of all: ALWAYS KEEP YOUR CLONE UPDATED.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
The great joy of EVE is that there is more than one sort of PvP, the economy is completely player driven and therefore can be player manipulated, hence economic PvP is, in a limited respect, a realistic playstyle. Just don't mention it to the pew pew PvP'ers as they tend to get rather heated about the subject ;-)
The thing is. I was rather involved in WoW economy, and I was using a monopoly strategy on the Auction House. Buying out everything that was low priced, and placing all items from my own. I think I took it a little too far because with the amount of gold I earned I had that power.
After a few days a GM whispered me to stop using the strategy. Although I still do it, just more inconspicious.
I'm personally pretty excited about this project ambulation I've seen on youtube from a CCP conference.
EvE is by far the most potential MMO on the market. If CCP continues with their vision, it will not be out of date for a loooong while. Can't believe how flexible their engine must be.
ehehe sounds like EvE might be the game for you. Even scamming is allowed, in fact it's very frequent. As long as you're not using exploits, anything you can do is allowed. Short of RMTing, racial abuse or real life threats, it's pretty difficult to get banned in EvE. Simply being creatively ruthless is basically the norm.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I'm so tempted to play the game. Just anticipating the EvE conference untill I activate my account. Just to be sure where EvE's future is headed to. Once I'm on, its my dedication that drives me. Hopefully I won't have to deal with dumbed down games anymore after EvE :P
I actually have one more important qeustion. Is it viable to play the game as a ''lone wolf''? I will definitely try to reach the corporations, but still prefer to play in my own. And if engaged in space combat, I could specialize in escaping? Or not possible? :P
It is possible, but not advised. You will be restricting yourself far too much. Corporations will give you purpose, friends (important in EVE), and they will give you experience. EVE's community is great for teaching others how to do things.
For instance, if you want to be a pirate, you will be looking for solo kills a lot. If you're alone, you just have to choose your targets FAR more carefully. It will take time, and it won't happen immediately, but you can do it. At the same time, if you're in a pirate corp, it is nice to have friends who can back you up, and who you can join in roaming gangs, etc...
On the PvE side, yes its very possible to lone wolf. Running missions, trading, production, mining, salvaging, exploration, etc can all be done solo... and you'll make reasonable money doing it. The opportunity for more valuable resources, specifically 0.0 & Wormholes , tend to require more of a team effort. But you can do very well solo in this game.
In PVP, its possible. You need a detailed knowledge of game systems, and how everything works (EW, gun tracking, optimal ranges, scanners, probes, etc etc). You have to have excellent tactical knowledge of your ship and its capabilities, as well as any ship you're likely to face(and the variety of fits you're likely to see). And you need to skills to fit and use that ship properly, whatever it may be. Being a low SP character isn't nearly as forgiving when your solo as when your in a fleet. Also... you have to be infinitely patient, pick your fights very carefully, and know when its time to run... even if it means giving up on a kill thats only a few seconds away.
It's not easy. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who doesn't have tons of experience. To get that experience, you'll need to suck it up and fly with a fleet to get the hang of the game and understand everything thats involved in being successful in PvP.
When your starting out, just use something cheap like a well fitted Rifter. You're goal shouldn't be so much turning a profit, or even winning fights... but just engaging enemies that you have the "potential" of beating and keeping yourself alive in the process. You'll lose ships, a lot of them probably... even playing things careful... but you'll gain the experience you'll need.
You can if you want, but I would advise at least trying corp play first. Apart from anything else, there is a lot to learn about surviving in EvE, especially outside hi-sec, even more so about empire, that a corp can teach you. You can learn on your own, but you will have to learn a lot of very expensive lessons while reinventing those wheels.
Unfortunately at the moment the "lone trader in deep 0.0 space" thing, which I suspect is what you're leading up to, is kind of dead. Jump Bridges and Jump Freighters pretty much killed that way of making ISK. It used to be very lucrative for a bold pilot to fill up a Blockade Runner cargo ship (small, very fast hauler - think Millenium Falcon but with a cloak) full of expensive modules and run them into 0.0 for a profit. Now, because of Jump Freighters, huge amounts of cargo can be moved around 0.0 in near complete safety, so prices are not much above those in the safe sectors.
As a rule, successful solo play is something you do at the end of your EvE career, rather than the beginning. There are exceptions, and maybe you'll be one, but for me EvE is so much better as a group game that I urge you to at least give that playstyle a try. I would say that the normal rules of human interaction apply though, and that for every good corp there are several bad ones. Personally, I've been very very lucky, and only been in one corp which I would describe as mediocre, the rest being good or excellent. Your personal social skills will be a factor in your EvE success.
If what I've said in this post has motivated you to seek out a corp purely to learn the ropes before you go off and do your solo thing, then join EvE University, a player run alliance which exists specifically for that purpose.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
absolutely possible. You can be basically invulnerable to looses and 'win' every fight by escaping. You need to learn when, where and how people engage as well as how to escape.
I played this way for years and still tend to a lot as I safely move things for personal, corp and alliance needs. Possibly the best way to learn was to actually PvP in cheap disposable tacklers in fleets of other ship for a while. You get to see how the combat works.
As I answered the question earlier in other post:
You have to understand that big part of the game is meta-gaming becaus there is only little predefined.
It is up to find your place in EVE universe.
Thanks everyone for the replies, its greatly apreciated. Freelancer corporations seems to sound good to me. My plan is to work my way up in EvE university first. I'l check their website later
Best of luck, mate. Drop me a line in game if you have any questions (use evemail - convoing people is a no-no when they're likely to be fighting. You can get ships killed that way.)
Give me liberty or give me lasers
There are a wide range of skills that you can learn and train while playing Eve and as you advance in your training of certain skills this will effectively unlock other more advanced skills. Basically the skills do pretty much what you think a skill should do. If you train in a gunnery skill someone that has their skill at level 1 will be at a slight disadvantage to someone that is at level 2 and bigger disadvantage to someone that has traind to level 5 and then trained an advanced skill level.
With recent changes a new player gets a pretty good start (much better than in the old days) and is given a pretty good idea of what to train for. One thing to be aware of is that how fast you learn a skill is based on your knowledge skills and the higher they are the faster you will train your skills depending upon what the skill you are training requires. What does all this mean? It means that you can start training up ship flying skills or gunnery skills or electronic skills or mechanic skills right away but that you are probably better off to train up your knowledge skills at least a bit as it will generally make training your other skills a bit faster.
Skills really provide two functions in the game first they determine if you can use something. For example if you haven't trained to fly battleships you can't fly one. But, in other cases they will effect how well you can use something by reducing the requirement for power or CPU needs by 5% or 2% or some such. Or, it will increase your ability to target opponents or track them by some amount. Again the differences are not huge from one skill level to another but taken all together they do add up.
But as has been stated earlier you don't need all the skills trained to the max and it is a bit of a waste to do that to be honest. Train up your knowledge skills and figure out what you want to do in the game and go for it. The new certification planner can also provide you with some guidance.
Good luck and fly safe.
Very detailed responce, thanks
You say its a waste. Is there a limited amount of investment into skills that can be made? So I have to spend them wisely?
My plans are get a feel for everything and then make a second definitive character where I want to specialize at certain things rather then be a hybrid ''jack of all trades''. If there is such thing anyway :P