Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Two kid kick man to death in Munich
Yunbei
Member Posts: 898
I haven't entered political debate area's for a while. Usually I stay away from it. But this case moved me, so I wanted to present it to you. As a German (from Hamburg) I must add, we were not used to violence in cities in the past and recently in the Munich city railway an adult man (around 50) was kicked and hit to death by two "kids" of 17 and 19. The man had tried to protect a few younger kids, whom these two criminals wanted to rob of money.
Read the news here:
www.thelocal.de/national/20090913-21887.html
Now the police says that the killed man acted in perfect accordance with what psychologists advise, being calm and decisive. And yet, he is dead now. What brutality, what inhumanity must be in a person, who not just kills someone with a quick shot or stab, but kicks and beats someone to death over a long period of time? I can not fathom it.
Now you must know Germany has one of the most liberls laws concerning crime. There is always the socializing aspect in the center, looking at causes and whatever, and for long I too thought that way. But hearing of this... it really changed me. I never was for the death penality. But thinking two teenager beat an adult to death just out of sheer rage and brutality... I honestly felt those two people deserve only death. Flame me for it, but this so shocked me.
All those DAMN excuses! Oh they had evil parents. Well, cry me a river! My dad was beaten by his dad every day as was natural in those days of the 40ies and 50ies, and he didnt turn out a murderer! All my friends played computer games and NONE of us ever beat anyone! It is just a bad excuse, and even if they are sorry now, that man is irrevocably dead!
And those thrice damn politicians and experts! Oh we must look at their social background, they were raised violently, we must re-integrate them... and they played those evil computer games! The criminals were naturally known to the police. But what did they do? Nothing. Now everyone has pity because kids have evil schools and evil parents and play evil computer gamers. Now at best they get 10 years in easy peacy youth arrest. Compared to most prisons, German youth prison is a hotel! It makes me sick. All are concerned about the poor murderers! And dozens of people stand around and watch someone being beaten to death. Horrible.
I am so sad and angry. What about the family! What about the victim! That person acted out of courage and compassion and he is irrevocably dead!
No... no matter their age, people with such brutality have no right to live on!
Comments
There's a new Politics/religion forum that this would probabley get more responces to.
Tbh, even in the US they would have a hard time getting the death penalty. Now if they planed it out, followed him home and did somthing like this then maybe a shot then.
I think this would be the perfect example of a Life sentence. Which is 40 years in the State, then paroled if on good behavior. Life is also much cheaper than the death penalty, soo much paper work and appeals, and special appeals, and more appeals, and opps, lost some evidence, gonna have to appeal again to see if they are still guilty and deserving of death. Then nearing the end the ask, "Any last appeals at innocence?"
Cheaper to throw them into a 40 year labor camp and feed them oatmeal and occasional dried fruits than 10-20 years in a cell waiting to die.
Seriously, sometimes a couple of 9mms seems like the right way to go. I don't get why the penalty for violents crimes are so fucking low.
One has to question the treatment methods employed. True, you can reform youths that age and they will contribute to society as a whole. If they just killed the kids then you lose the contributions of the man they killed and what they could have. The thing is you arent even addressing the cause. Its true, bad parents, bad environments and other issues can create kids like this. They do. The problem is people seem to ignore the problems and treat the symptoms. Haul out some bad parents, strangle them in public and I bet your going to see some results.
In the US the 17 year old would be out when they are 18. However, you have to remember our prison system is far far worse punishment then any prison in west Europe. I am of the opinion imprisonment is a far more cruel and unusual punishment then capital punishment. With capital punishment, these kids would be missing the hand that would allow them to steal.
I think a big problem is the lack of punishment; had they known that they could have been sentencing themselves to death by beating the man, I doubt they would have gone through with it.
Face it: Some people have a natural tendency towards violence and will act upon it without the proper consequences. Singapore is proof that strict laws mean less crime (especially violent crime).
This is also interesting:
"Und sie hätten immer wieder gesagt: "Es hat uns keiner geholfen." Die Kinder erzählen ihr, dass sie nicht nur um Hilfe gerufen, sondern gezielt Passanten angesprochen hätten mit der Bitte, einzugreifen. Auch dann noch, als der 50-Jährige schon am Boden lag. Doch mehrere Personen seien weitergegangen, die Kinder, sagt Braun, "fühlten sich völlig hilflos".
Basically OTHER PASSENGERS WATCHED HIM DIE AND DIDN'T ATTEMPT TO HELP HIM.
That really speaks volumes about society in Munich.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Not for taking a life. Even if they meant to "beat him up" and then he died without the intent to cause grave physical harm, they would be charged as adults. In this case it seems they had no concern whatso ever other than destroying somthing that tried to stop them from taking money.
I kinda like the Aussie rule of the age of consent being 16. At 16 if you don't know penis+vagine = extra job/overtime or smashing someones head in for laughs and giggles = a miserable life for yourself then when do you? Not that I messed around with any teens in oz... too damn... teeny for me.
mmmmm, big fan of Japanese style prisons myself.
You want to behave like an animal. Okay then, communication is cut down to a minimum, diet consist of fish heads and other things most "honest" people wont eat, heavy labor and to top it off you were a diaper like you are some kinda untamed beast.
They start rehibilitation at the begining of evolution more or less.
Quite depressing, isn't it?
Yes, I did not used to be a friend of harsh penalities. But seeing how in every mayor city in Germany bus windows are ALL scratched, chairs in public transportations cut, every free house wall sprayed on - and then I recall in my visit to Japan I NEVER saw graffiti on ANY house.
Or people just drop their litter where they stand. Good riddance is it SO difficult to have some minimal behavior? It's not that much asked. Seriously, the West has gotten way too liberal in some aspects. I mean, I am all for freedom of personal stuff, but some destructive behaviour must not be tolerated.
Can't really speak for other countrys as I have no idea what they are going through. However for mine own (US) I would love to see the prison system worked by separate catagories.
Lesser criminals given less but but harder time, the old school ball and chain labor even. With the emphasises on getting them back to society as long as they make the first steps.
Violent and "unfixable" criminals separated and put in Utah or some other north american version of siberia. Work with them best you can, but if they want to be life long wardies then so be it. Illegal immigrants can't do all the work.
And the lifers, those that will spend a life time in prison, no need to rehibilitate as they wont see the light of day till elderly but do regret what they did or who the killed/raped/whatever to get their. No long term idea, guess let them farm their personal (prison's) gardens/chicken farms. Live life seperated but not in humanly.
And the psychos, those guys are a chemical inbalance more so than anything else...... tricky one for me. Best i can say is they must be seperated but rehibilitation is not really possible. They already live on another plane of existance where removing the flesh from someone elses skull and wearing it like a mask is cool and hip or something.
Ever heard of the Kitty Genovese/bystander effect? Psychology 101. It's not 'society in Munich'; it's human nature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
its not impossible, we had some news in my country that two schoolboys got held up at knifepoint and they managed to beat the man who held them up...they were taekwondo students