Originally posted by Brixon Why do haters always want to see a game closed down, how is this good for this form of gaming? Ok WAR hasn't lived up to the hype and let many people down, Mythic did drop the ball. Some people seem to take it way too personal, like your girlfriend dumped you or something. As long as there are people playing, even if it's only one server, I'll keep playing. I like the low cost of entry for PvP. Much like Planetside, you don't need to be high level with maxed out gear to PvP. Sure the game is not as deep as say DAoC, it's more of a beer and pretzel game, but that's fine with me. I just want to get in and play for a couple hours and have fun. Spending months to a year just to be able to get to the end game isn't fun in my eyes. I put up with it in DAoC, but don't really have the patience for it with Aion. So all of you Aion fans have fun with your new game, but can you all just move along already?
Because they dont deserve to live. When a game shuts down, it means there was progress in the universe, something has forced it to shut down and is taking its place. They cant get away with being who they are anymore, they have to try harder or die. This makes many of us very happy. And Its only because of the stupid consumer that the rest of us have to suffer with crappy games and expensive fees for no reason other than they can. So when a games go down, which means the consumer has smartened up, then we know something better is on the horizon. But people like you are part of the problem, enjoying yourself, rolling around in feces wondering why everyone is shaking their head at you. Well im glad you guys are finding out that rolling around in feces isnt cool, as evidence by the populations going down in these crap piles for games. So VERY HAPPY, BURN IN HELL WAR and the rest of you, where you belong!!
From the above producer's letter, i believe apart from the p.r crap, the real developers knows the main problem and is trying their best to rectified. So i don't think this game will die anytime soon, maybe in 2 to 3 years if dont improve current situations. Only problem they are facing now is time. Hopefully the subs will will sustain in a profit manner that allow the devs to solve most of the problem. When its done i will definitely goes back...
How are they going in the right direction? They insist that the problem is weak PvE. Pure idiocy. People liked Warhammer cause it was so PvP & RvR focused. When players & ex-players tried to comment that this is plain delusional, they got banned from forums.
The game is finished. Sub numbers are definitely below 100k right now as Aion is launching. The biggest guilds on Dark Crag, my old server and possibly the most populated server, are gone. These guys ran the RvR.
I think the only reason Warhammer will even stay alive much longer is if EA/Bioware want to retain the IP and maybe do something in the future.
Is not they, its only Jeff doing some pr crap infront of other developers. What he said is issues but not really major.
Another post showing they are going in the right direction:
If WAR had launched with maybe 6 or 7 servers, and had better end-game content, I think it would have been much, much more successful.
I didn't think it was a bad game. It was actually pretty fun. I just got annoyed because I always felt like I was the only person in the whole damn world. It was like playing a single player game. There was hardly ever any open-world PvP battles, but when there was, it was freaking fun! Which also makes me believe that they should have focused alot more on open-world PvP instead of scenarios.
Mythic made some pretty heavy mistakes, and in the end they paid for it. I mean really, whose decision was it to launch with like 60 servers? They were already getting waaaaay too ahead of themselves...
Mythic made some pretty heavy mistakes, and in the end they paid for it. I mean really, whose decision was it to launch with like 60 servers? They were already getting waaaaay too ahead of themselves...
In the beginning warhammer had enough players to fill the 100 servers the released with. At one point they had 750-800,000 active accounts.
People quitting the game is what caused servers to empty out and continue to empty out.
I think they will keep the game running for a while... they spent too much making it to give up on this soon. But I do believe they have pretty much given up on it ever being a success. I am still playing since launch and enjoying the game as it is now. It is a much better game that it was a year ago, but I don't see it getting any better than it is now.
They appear to be in full on maintenance mode now. No new content is even being teased at this point. They are trying to spin it as a focus on balance and squashing bugs... but we have all heard time and again that content and balance come from two different groups. MMOs survive by offering us an ever shinier carrot. They alway dangle some new content out in front of you to keep people on the fence from canceling their sub. I believe if they had any new content in the works, they would be trying to tempt us with it. For the first time since launch, there is absolutely no new content being shown as coming soon, or even coming eventually. The closest thing to new content being teased is the tier 4 armor redesigns, which really only amounts to shifting pieces around between sets with nothing actually being new.
As much as I enjoy the game, I won't keep running through the same content forever. The only thing keeping from looking for a new game now is that there aren't any coming out I am interested in.
Why do haters always want to see a game closed down, how is this good for this form of gaming? Ok WAR hasn't lived up to the hype and let many people down, Mythic did drop the ball. Some people seem to take it way too personal, like your girlfriend dumped you or something. As long as there are people playing, even if it's only one server, I'll keep playing. I like the low cost of entry for PvP. Much like Planetside, you don't need to be high level with maxed out gear to PvP. Sure the game is not as deep as say DAoC, it's more of a beer and pretzel game, but that's fine with me. I just want to get in and play for a couple hours and have fun. Spending months to a year just to be able to get to the end game isn't fun in my eyes. I put up with it in DAoC, but don't really have the patience for it with Aion. So all of you Aion fans have fun with your new game, but can you all just move along already?
Sorry, but this game deserves to be shut down. Many players are very upset with how Mythic has treated the playerbase and actually took steps that sometimes made you wonder if they were trying to make the game fail. People put in time hoping to see the potential emerge and constantly pointing out key flaws to Mythic. In response, they were ignored and sometimes censored.
Warhammer, as a concept is a good game & provides some great fun. But Mythic is epic fail. This game will either be dead or on life support. Hopefully, someone else will take the lessons and make a new RvR MMO that fits the standards.
All I can say to those players is "Get a bloody grip, it's not BLOODY REAL FOR HEAVENS SAKE"
As much as I enjoy the game, I won't keep running through the same content forever. The only thing keeping from looking for a new game now is that there aren't any coming out I am interested in. :(
Sorry, but this is the essence of PvP anywhere.
YOU are the content the other player's use. When new people join, that's your new content, lol.
This is the problem with PvP when the populations stink. There are only so many Capture The Flag scenarios they can make that you finish in ten minutes before you get bored. I honestly have no idea how people can play a PvP based game for over a year when it's pretty much the same guilds you are killing over and over. That they give you a new zone to do it and now it's called "Capture the Skull" or "Turn out all the Lights Before the Opponent Does" in isn't really all that more interesting to me personally.
Tribe guild: "We hate Ubermenchers! They suck!"
Ubermenchers: "We hate Tribe! They suck!"
Devs: "Hmm. Let's make a few places they can kill each other over and over in again and again."
As much as I enjoy the game, I won't keep running through the same content forever. The only thing keeping from looking for a new game now is that there aren't any coming out I am interested in.
Sorry, but this is the essence of PvP anywhere.
YOU are the content the other player's use. When new people join, that's your new content, lol.
This is the problem with PvP when the populations stink. There are only so many Capture The Flag scenarios they can make that you finish in ten minutes before you get bored. I honestly have no idea how people can play a PvP based game for over a year when it's pretty much the same guilds you are killing over and over. That they give you a new zone to do it and now it's called "Capture the Skull" or "Turn out all the Lights Before the Opponent Does" in isn't really all that more interesting to me personally.
Tribe guild: "We hate Ubermenchers! They suck!"
Ubermenchers: "We hate Tribe! They suck!"
Devs: "Hmm. Let's make a few places they can kill each other over and over in again and again."
That's pretty much PvP.
Not if its done right. Not if your success makes a difference and shapes the gaming world. Not if your name, or your guilds name, get to forge the future of the gameworld...
Look at EvE and you know what I'm talking about. PvP can be the whole game if it's meaningful.
Not if its done right. Not if your success makes a difference and shapes the gaming world. Not if your name, or your guilds name, get to forge the future of the gameworld... Look at EvE and you know what I'm talking about. PvP can be the whole game if it's meaningful. M
Yeah, EVE is a good example of PvP but there's a monumental difference between the kind of PvP that it is and the kinds that others is. It's almost not a PvP game because it's so different from the usual PvP tripe.
EVE's not based on typical classes and balancing them with nerf/buff/nerf/buff. You can get what anyone else gets pretty much ship wise, and you develop your own skills that anyone can have. There are huge stretches of space where you may not see but a few people. You have a HUGE death penalty for reckless play which makes you very careful about which battles you are going to participate in, and not just die and respawn without caring. You don't have to choose a faction to play this game and there is no real "enemy" artifically created and can go solo without picking a side, and can thrive very well in a small group of friends. Or you can join a mega corporation.
In short, EVE is a sandbox where you do what you want and nothing is scripted, so you can't compare it to a linear amusement park like WAR. There's only one other PvP game out sandbox wise and that's Darkfall, so the typical PvP games are pretty crappy.
I don't think using EVE as an example of good PvP is appropriate, because at launch and even afterwards, it didn't have a huge population. It was only the last few years that it gained in popularity due to its staying power and people realizing they decide what happens, not the devs. The key about EVE was it's a game that builds up but doesn't need a monumental endgame. In fact, is there even an endgame in it? I don't think so. And one never "maxes" out their character, there are no ten minute fights then start the same ten minute fight over again and again.
In other games, there simply isn't that kind of "forging the future" in WAR or most PvP games because there's really no base, and you have to wait for someone to invent some animosity for you to fight for. It's based around quick combat for smaller attention spans with little to lose so everyone tries to pwn everyone else. Typical PvP games lack substance and depth and this is why people tire of them.
You really could put the typical PvP population against a blue backdrop with different surroundings constantly changing and they'd just keep killing each other oblivious to how things looked in the background.
I think they will keep the game running for a while... they spent too much making it to give up on this soon. But I do believe they have pretty much given up on it ever being a success. I am still playing since launch and enjoying the game as it is now. It is a much better game that it was a year ago, but I don't see it getting any better than it is now. They appear to be in full on maintenance mode now. No new content is even being teased at this point. They are trying to spin it as a focus on balance and squashing bugs... but we have all heard time and again that content and balance come from two different groups. MMOs survive by offering us an ever shinier carrot. They alway dangle some new content out in front of you to keep people on the fence from canceling their sub. I believe if they had any new content in the works, they would be trying to tempt us with it. For the first time since launch, there is absolutely no new content being shown as coming soon, or even coming eventually. The closest thing to new content being teased is the tier 4 armor redesigns, which really only amounts to shifting pieces around between sets with nothing actually being new. As much as I enjoy the game, I won't keep running through the same content forever. The only thing keeping from looking for a new game now is that there aren't any coming out I am interested in.
I guess its a double edge sword. Mythicis being criticize for releasing new contents instead of focusing on issue on hand. Solving bugs, balancing class etc...
Personally i rather they fix the current problems than releasing new contents, for whats the use of it if players cant play?
Make the game stable first, than proceed from there...
I think they will keep the game running for a while... they spent too much making it to give up on this soon. But I do believe they have pretty much given up on it ever being a success. I am still playing since launch and enjoying the game as it is now. It is a much better game that it was a year ago, but I don't see it getting any better than it is now. They appear to be in full on maintenance mode now. No new content is even being teased at this point. They are trying to spin it as a focus on balance and squashing bugs... but we have all heard time and again that content and balance come from two different groups. MMOs survive by offering us an ever shinier carrot. They alway dangle some new content out in front of you to keep people on the fence from canceling their sub. I believe if they had any new content in the works, they would be trying to tempt us with it. For the first time since launch, there is absolutely no new content being shown as coming soon, or even coming eventually. The closest thing to new content being teased is the tier 4 armor redesigns, which really only amounts to shifting pieces around between sets with nothing actually being new. As much as I enjoy the game, I won't keep running through the same content forever. The only thing keeping from looking for a new game now is that there aren't any coming out I am interested in.
I guess its a double edge sword. Mythicis being criticize for releasing new contents instead of focusing on issue on hand. Solving bugs, balancing class etc...
Personally i rather they fix the current problems than releasing new contents, for whats the use of it if players cant play?
Make the game stable first, than proceed from there...
That is the result of releasing a game to early. After release, the first year should be split between smoothing out the rough edges with a behind the scene push for additional content (expansion). Mythic is doing the right thing by creating new content. It may not be the right thing for Warhammer, but it is the right thing for an mmo.
Warhammer cannot afford that luxury though. The game needs major work in to many areas. There just is not enough time or manpower to do all the things that need to be done. It doesn't matter what issue they try to tackle, because it means they will be ignoring several others.
People always say to give a game 6 months. Then they say give it a year. Well time is almost up and as usual the major issues still exist. Sure the game is better than it was a year ago, but still isn't good enough to attract people back.
Warhammer tried to release in two years and delayed long enough to be in development for 3 years. That was obviosuly not enough time for a project of this size and whoever though it was should be fired.
From the above producer's letter, i believe apart from the p.r crap, the real developers knows the main problem and is trying their best to rectified. So i don't think this game will die anytime soon, maybe in 2 to 3 years if dont improve current situations. Only problem they are facing now is time. Hopefully the subs will will sustain in a profit manner that allow the devs to solve most of the problem. When its done i will definitely goes back...
How are they going in the right direction? They insist that the problem is weak PvE. Pure idiocy. People liked Warhammer cause it was so PvP & RvR focused. When players & ex-players tried to comment that this is plain delusional, they got banned from forums.
The game is finished. Sub numbers are definitely below 100k right now as Aion is launching. The biggest guilds on Dark Crag, my old server and possibly the most populated server, are gone. These guys ran the RvR.
I think the only reason Warhammer will even stay alive much longer is if EA/Bioware want to retain the IP and maybe do something in the future.
Is not they, its only Jeff doing some pr crap infront of other developers. What he said is issues but not really major.
Another post showing they are going in the right direction:
Jeff is the director, so you cannot exactly ignore his words. Additionally, in the thread pointing out his statements, another developer would post defending him.
The bottom line is that the key issues have been pointed for over a year and minimal work has been done to correct them. I played the game for 5 months and while I liked it a lot, I got pretty annoyed with the fact that the major issues that are killing Warhammer are not being attended to.
At some point you have to realize that there is no real hope for Warhammer. The feedback from beta was overwhelming in terms of pointing out that it has game breaking issues which cannot be ignored if Mythic plans to be successful. Hence, look at the results. Most of the players who have left actually really liked the game's concepts but just could not deal with the key problems much longer. So the thread you are linking serves no real purpose. The issue has been discussed to death all over the forums. Emails were written to the development team for month. Beta feedback alone pointed to most of the problems.
Actually AoC has a much better long term chance of survival then WAR does.
AoC is owned and operated by Funcom, a development house that is particularly noted for never giving up on an investment, and clawing games back from colosally bad releases. (The fact that they are also known for colosally bad releases is another matter entirely.) So knowing Funcom things would have to get truly critically bad for them to pull the plug. I think AoC has stabilized at a lower but steady player base. Currently its only real risk is Aion drain. AoC also got a boost not long after WAR's release from returning players.
WAR however has a huge huge problem. It is owned by EA,and it has not as of yet recouped its development costs. While EA will sometimes keep paid for games running forever on minimal life support to reap a profit (see UO), they are also well known as the quickest and most arbitrary publisher when it comes to closing down MMO's. They have killed more MMO's then any other publisher combined. They do it with very short notice, and they often do it simply to show some artifiial effect on a corporate balance sheet. Player loyalty means nothing. A stable niche means nothing. Product X did not meet expected revenue goes, product X is gone. Given this corporate environment WAR is pretty much doomed. I am predicting Spring 2010.
Originally posted by faefrost Originally posted by Blackwell99 Originally posted by Clawzon So, when is the funeral of War really?
Right after Age of Conan's funeral But a little bit before Secret World's funeral.
Actually AoC has a much better long term chance of survival then WAR does. AoC is owned and operated by Funcom, a development house that is particularly noted for never giving up on an investment, and clawing games back from colosally bad releases. (The fact that they are also known for colosally bad releases is another matter entirely.) So knowing Funcom things would have to get truly critically bad for them to pull the plug. I think AoC has stabilized at a lower but steady player base. Currently its only real risk is Aion drain. AoC also got a boost not long after WAR's release from returning players. WAR however has a huge huge problem. It is owned by EA,and it has not as of yet recouped its development costs. While EA will sometimes keep paid for games running forever on minimal life support to reap a profit (see UO), they are also well known as the quickest and most arbitrary publisher when it comes to closing down MMO's. They have killed more MMO's then any other publisher combined. They do it with very short notice, and they often do it simply to show some artifiial effect on a corporate balance sheet. Player loyalty means nothing. A stable niche means nothing. Product X did not meet expected revenue goes, product X is gone. Given this corporate environment WAR is pretty much doomed. I am predicting Spring 2010.
Warhammer: Player dependant to survive because it's PvP based. No one signs up for Warhammer and it's bland PvE. Even the devs just admitted it recently that it's "too easy" (see: boring) and claim it was one of their biggest mistakes (which is a lie; they had way more pressing problems). When there is no population in the game's servers, this game grinds to a halt. As people continue to look for opponents without luck on a particular server, they keep shutting down.
AoC: Not player dependant to survive because it's PvE based. It has tons more quests that are more fun to do and has good voiceover acting. You get a better since of immersion in AoC for those who like a story and it's way more grittier than WAR (bloody). The PvE in that game is significantly more satisfying. They have reached the number of servers where they don't have to shut anymore down.
Money aside or who owns what, AoC will probably last longer simply because you can have people playing it without worrying about a warband.
If I was pressed to pick one, I'd say AoC would survive longer.
Actually AoC has a much better long term chance of survival then WAR does.
AoC is owned and operated by Funcom, a development house that is particularly noted for never giving up on an investment, and clawing games back from colosally bad releases. (The fact that they are also known for colosally bad releases is another matter entirely.) So knowing Funcom things would have to get truly critically bad for them to pull the plug. I think AoC has stabilized at a lower but steady player base. Currently its only real risk is Aion drain. AoC also got a boost not long after WAR's release from returning players.
WAR however has a huge huge problem. It is owned by EA,and it has not as of yet recouped its development costs. While EA will sometimes keep paid for games running forever on minimal life support to reap a profit (see UO), they are also well known as the quickest and most arbitrary publisher when it comes to closing down MMO's. They have killed more MMO's then any other publisher combined. They do it with very short notice, and they often do it simply to show some artifiial effect on a corporate balance sheet. Player loyalty means nothing. A stable niche means nothing. Product X did not meet expected revenue goes, product X is gone. Given this corporate environment WAR is pretty much doomed. I am predicting Spring 2010.
Off the top of my head, I can think of only one MMORPG that EA closed: Earth and Beyond. Were there more they closed down?
And, did they close more than three? Because, that's NCSoft's total so far: AC2, Auto Assault, and Tabula Rasa.
The major flaws of WAR were all pointed out, dissected and highlighted in a very clear fashion as early as in closed beta. The posters who pointed these things out actually got banned or censored...
The astounding stupidity of the developers and their management during beta was god damn perplexing. The community told them "A" and Mythic went and did "X". They just blatantly ignored everything that was ever uttered during the beta and after it, and only today do they even start to catch up to all the complaints.
"Scenarios will fracture the playerbase and empty the RVR lakes"
"There is no incentive to be in the RVR lakes."
Leveling via PvP/RVR is all but impossible.
Combat feels sluggish and disconnected.
"It's hard to tell what is going on in RVR and the capture systems make no sense"
"Keeps are boring and underdeveloped"
"Leveling takes too long"
"Itemization is horrendous"
"The game world is too disembodied and cramped. Does not feel like a world and as such immersiveness is lacking"
Dividing up the entire world in "order/destro/RVRlakes" ruins the experience in a number of ways.
"Way too much CC"
"Not enough endgame content"
"Horrible animations"
"Lack of graphical options. Not even Anti Aliasing is available."
"Completely broken endgame"
And the list goes on. And on.
Long reports, pages long, were posted on each of the above subjects and tons of details and effort were put in to try and show Mythic that they needed to change aspects of their game if it was going to be successful. But as previously said, these efforts were completely in vain.
Today they have rectified a few of these issues, but many more persist and they do not seem to be going anywhere. These are all issues that had to be fixed in beta - not 1 year after release. They screwed themselves over.
the only way to save WAR is to take it away from EA and let bioware just rebuild it or better yet just let THQ take over and fix it hell they already working on warhammer 40k online (i hope that game is great)
When? Summer 2010. Too much coming out in that year . You can only merge servers until you reach the final two. In order: Cataclysm (succes assured), SWkotor (already 1M ...), FFXIV, Star trek. If a Korean dull copy grinder without any Lore took out 50% of War's final pops, think what the above games will do.... 2010 will be the year of the one wedding and 4 funerals era.
Quoted for funny.
Playing: DO Trial, EVE 1 Day Buy a PLEX promo. Played: UO, EQ, AC, GW, WoW, CoX, EQ2, AoC, WURM Online, Ryzom, Eve Online, FE Trial Genres: 4x strategy, Sim Racing, American/Euro RPG, Fighters
WAR will probably hit the F2P market after some restructuring. The Warhammer Fantasy line has some hardcore fans and I imagine they will stay to the end. Me personally, I really wish they had done a 40k MMO. Sci-fi would have been a breath of fresh air. There are already a ton of fantasy MMOs.
Also, as mentioned earlier there are a ton of BIG NAME MMOs coming out next year. I cannot imagine a struggling game surviving in this environment without becoming F2P. Aion will probably lose subs as well to the games coming out, especially ToR and FFXIV. It's too bad because this game wasn't really bad, it just didn't have much to offer that people couldn't get from WoW. I like the Warhammer universe and this whole thing is kind of a bummer.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage Follower Of Silvanus
Comments
I've seen far more cohesive guilds in some low key F2p games than I've seen in any of the newer 'P2P' MMO's.
Usually because those guilds play for the community and fun aspect and not for the 'Zomg achieve!' aspect.
Because they dont deserve to live. When a game shuts down, it means there was progress in the universe, something has forced it to shut down and is taking its place. They cant get away with being who they are anymore, they have to try harder or die. This makes many of us very happy. And Its only because of the stupid consumer that the rest of us have to suffer with crappy games and expensive fees for no reason other than they can. So when a games go down, which means the consumer has smartened up, then we know something better is on the horizon. But people like you are part of the problem, enjoying yourself, rolling around in feces wondering why everyone is shaking their head at you. Well im glad you guys are finding out that rolling around in feces isnt cool, as evidence by the populations going down in these crap piles for games. So VERY HAPPY, BURN IN HELL WAR and the rest of you, where you belong!!
How are they going in the right direction? They insist that the problem is weak PvE. Pure idiocy. People liked Warhammer cause it was so PvP & RvR focused. When players & ex-players tried to comment that this is plain delusional, they got banned from forums.
The game is finished. Sub numbers are definitely below 100k right now as Aion is launching. The biggest guilds on Dark Crag, my old server and possibly the most populated server, are gone. These guys ran the RvR.
I think the only reason Warhammer will even stay alive much longer is if EA/Bioware want to retain the IP and maybe do something in the future.
Is not they, its only Jeff doing some pr crap infront of other developers. What he said is issues but not really major.
Another post showing they are going in the right direction:
www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php
Just hope that time is on their side...
RIP Orc Choppa
If WAR had launched with maybe 6 or 7 servers, and had better end-game content, I think it would have been much, much more successful.
I didn't think it was a bad game. It was actually pretty fun. I just got annoyed because I always felt like I was the only person in the whole damn world. It was like playing a single player game. There was hardly ever any open-world PvP battles, but when there was, it was freaking fun! Which also makes me believe that they should have focused alot more on open-world PvP instead of scenarios.
Mythic made some pretty heavy mistakes, and in the end they paid for it. I mean really, whose decision was it to launch with like 60 servers? They were already getting waaaaay too ahead of themselves...
In the beginning warhammer had enough players to fill the 100 servers the released with. At one point they had 750-800,000 active accounts.
People quitting the game is what caused servers to empty out and continue to empty out.
I think they will keep the game running for a while... they spent too much making it to give up on this soon. But I do believe they have pretty much given up on it ever being a success. I am still playing since launch and enjoying the game as it is now. It is a much better game that it was a year ago, but I don't see it getting any better than it is now.
They appear to be in full on maintenance mode now. No new content is even being teased at this point. They are trying to spin it as a focus on balance and squashing bugs... but we have all heard time and again that content and balance come from two different groups. MMOs survive by offering us an ever shinier carrot. They alway dangle some new content out in front of you to keep people on the fence from canceling their sub. I believe if they had any new content in the works, they would be trying to tempt us with it. For the first time since launch, there is absolutely no new content being shown as coming soon, or even coming eventually. The closest thing to new content being teased is the tier 4 armor redesigns, which really only amounts to shifting pieces around between sets with nothing actually being new.
As much as I enjoy the game, I won't keep running through the same content forever. The only thing keeping from looking for a new game now is that there aren't any coming out I am interested in.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Sorry, but this game deserves to be shut down. Many players are very upset with how Mythic has treated the playerbase and actually took steps that sometimes made you wonder if they were trying to make the game fail. People put in time hoping to see the potential emerge and constantly pointing out key flaws to Mythic. In response, they were ignored and sometimes censored.
Warhammer, as a concept is a good game & provides some great fun. But Mythic is epic fail. This game will either be dead or on life support. Hopefully, someone else will take the lessons and make a new RvR MMO that fits the standards.
All I can say to those players is "Get a bloody grip, it's not BLOODY REAL FOR HEAVENS SAKE"
Sorry, but this is the essence of PvP anywhere.
YOU are the content the other player's use. When new people join, that's your new content, lol.
This is the problem with PvP when the populations stink. There are only so many Capture The Flag scenarios they can make that you finish in ten minutes before you get bored. I honestly have no idea how people can play a PvP based game for over a year when it's pretty much the same guilds you are killing over and over. That they give you a new zone to do it and now it's called "Capture the Skull" or "Turn out all the Lights Before the Opponent Does" in isn't really all that more interesting to me personally.
Tribe guild: "We hate Ubermenchers! They suck!"
Ubermenchers: "We hate Tribe! They suck!"
Devs: "Hmm. Let's make a few places they can kill each other over and over in again and again."
That's pretty much PvP.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Sorry, but this is the essence of PvP anywhere.
YOU are the content the other player's use. When new people join, that's your new content, lol.
This is the problem with PvP when the populations stink. There are only so many Capture The Flag scenarios they can make that you finish in ten minutes before you get bored. I honestly have no idea how people can play a PvP based game for over a year when it's pretty much the same guilds you are killing over and over. That they give you a new zone to do it and now it's called "Capture the Skull" or "Turn out all the Lights Before the Opponent Does" in isn't really all that more interesting to me personally.
Tribe guild: "We hate Ubermenchers! They suck!"
Ubermenchers: "We hate Tribe! They suck!"
Devs: "Hmm. Let's make a few places they can kill each other over and over in again and again."
That's pretty much PvP.
Not if its done right. Not if your success makes a difference and shapes the gaming world. Not if your name, or your guilds name, get to forge the future of the gameworld...
Look at EvE and you know what I'm talking about. PvP can be the whole game if it's meaningful.
M
Yeah, EVE is a good example of PvP but there's a monumental difference between the kind of PvP that it is and the kinds that others is. It's almost not a PvP game because it's so different from the usual PvP tripe.
EVE's not based on typical classes and balancing them with nerf/buff/nerf/buff. You can get what anyone else gets pretty much ship wise, and you develop your own skills that anyone can have. There are huge stretches of space where you may not see but a few people. You have a HUGE death penalty for reckless play which makes you very careful about which battles you are going to participate in, and not just die and respawn without caring. You don't have to choose a faction to play this game and there is no real "enemy" artifically created and can go solo without picking a side, and can thrive very well in a small group of friends. Or you can join a mega corporation.
In short, EVE is a sandbox where you do what you want and nothing is scripted, so you can't compare it to a linear amusement park like WAR. There's only one other PvP game out sandbox wise and that's Darkfall, so the typical PvP games are pretty crappy.
I don't think using EVE as an example of good PvP is appropriate, because at launch and even afterwards, it didn't have a huge population. It was only the last few years that it gained in popularity due to its staying power and people realizing they decide what happens, not the devs. The key about EVE was it's a game that builds up but doesn't need a monumental endgame. In fact, is there even an endgame in it? I don't think so. And one never "maxes" out their character, there are no ten minute fights then start the same ten minute fight over again and again.
In other games, there simply isn't that kind of "forging the future" in WAR or most PvP games because there's really no base, and you have to wait for someone to invent some animosity for you to fight for. It's based around quick combat for smaller attention spans with little to lose so everyone tries to pwn everyone else. Typical PvP games lack substance and depth and this is why people tire of them.
You really could put the typical PvP population against a blue backdrop with different surroundings constantly changing and they'd just keep killing each other oblivious to how things looked in the background.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I guess its a double edge sword. Mythicis being criticize for releasing new contents instead of focusing on issue on hand. Solving bugs, balancing class etc...
Personally i rather they fix the current problems than releasing new contents, for whats the use of it if players cant play?
Make the game stable first, than proceed from there...
RIP Orc Choppa
It`s just another thread of players TRYING to wake up the devs, who aren`t paying any attention.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I guess its a double edge sword. Mythicis being criticize for releasing new contents instead of focusing on issue on hand. Solving bugs, balancing class etc...
Personally i rather they fix the current problems than releasing new contents, for whats the use of it if players cant play?
Make the game stable first, than proceed from there...
That is the result of releasing a game to early. After release, the first year should be split between smoothing out the rough edges with a behind the scene push for additional content (expansion). Mythic is doing the right thing by creating new content. It may not be the right thing for Warhammer, but it is the right thing for an mmo.
Warhammer cannot afford that luxury though. The game needs major work in to many areas. There just is not enough time or manpower to do all the things that need to be done. It doesn't matter what issue they try to tackle, because it means they will be ignoring several others.
People always say to give a game 6 months. Then they say give it a year. Well time is almost up and as usual the major issues still exist. Sure the game is better than it was a year ago, but still isn't good enough to attract people back.
Warhammer tried to release in two years and delayed long enough to be in development for 3 years. That was obviosuly not enough time for a project of this size and whoever though it was should be fired.
How are they going in the right direction? They insist that the problem is weak PvE. Pure idiocy. People liked Warhammer cause it was so PvP & RvR focused. When players & ex-players tried to comment that this is plain delusional, they got banned from forums.
The game is finished. Sub numbers are definitely below 100k right now as Aion is launching. The biggest guilds on Dark Crag, my old server and possibly the most populated server, are gone. These guys ran the RvR.
I think the only reason Warhammer will even stay alive much longer is if EA/Bioware want to retain the IP and maybe do something in the future.
Is not they, its only Jeff doing some pr crap infront of other developers. What he said is issues but not really major.
Another post showing they are going in the right direction:
www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php
Just hope that time is on their side...
Jeff is the director, so you cannot exactly ignore his words. Additionally, in the thread pointing out his statements, another developer would post defending him.
The bottom line is that the key issues have been pointed for over a year and minimal work has been done to correct them. I played the game for 5 months and while I liked it a lot, I got pretty annoyed with the fact that the major issues that are killing Warhammer are not being attended to.
At some point you have to realize that there is no real hope for Warhammer. The feedback from beta was overwhelming in terms of pointing out that it has game breaking issues which cannot be ignored if Mythic plans to be successful. Hence, look at the results. Most of the players who have left actually really liked the game's concepts but just could not deal with the key problems much longer. So the thread you are linking serves no real purpose. The issue has been discussed to death all over the forums. Emails were written to the development team for month. Beta feedback alone pointed to most of the problems.
Playing: EvE, Warhammer free unlimited trial, Allods Online
Played: Anarchy Online, WoW, Warhammer, AoC, Ryzom. Aion
Strongly Recommend: Ryzom, EvE, Allods Online
1-3 years, sadly this game could of been so much more and with the low pop (at least Eu side) it kinda made it pointless playing a PvP game.
Right after Age of Conan's funeral
But a little bit before Secret World's funeral.
Right after Age of Conan's funeral
But a little bit before Secret World's funeral.
Actually AoC has a much better long term chance of survival then WAR does.
AoC is owned and operated by Funcom, a development house that is particularly noted for never giving up on an investment, and clawing games back from colosally bad releases. (The fact that they are also known for colosally bad releases is another matter entirely.) So knowing Funcom things would have to get truly critically bad for them to pull the plug. I think AoC has stabilized at a lower but steady player base. Currently its only real risk is Aion drain. AoC also got a boost not long after WAR's release from returning players.
WAR however has a huge huge problem. It is owned by EA,and it has not as of yet recouped its development costs. While EA will sometimes keep paid for games running forever on minimal life support to reap a profit (see UO), they are also well known as the quickest and most arbitrary publisher when it comes to closing down MMO's. They have killed more MMO's then any other publisher combined. They do it with very short notice, and they often do it simply to show some artifiial effect on a corporate balance sheet. Player loyalty means nothing. A stable niche means nothing. Product X did not meet expected revenue goes, product X is gone. Given this corporate environment WAR is pretty much doomed. I am predicting Spring 2010.
Right after Age of Conan's funeral
But a little bit before Secret World's funeral.
Actually AoC has a much better long term chance of survival then WAR does.
AoC is owned and operated by Funcom, a development house that is particularly noted for never giving up on an investment, and clawing games back from colosally bad releases. (The fact that they are also known for colosally bad releases is another matter entirely.) So knowing Funcom things would have to get truly critically bad for them to pull the plug. I think AoC has stabilized at a lower but steady player base. Currently its only real risk is Aion drain. AoC also got a boost not long after WAR's release from returning players.
WAR however has a huge huge problem. It is owned by EA,and it has not as of yet recouped its development costs. While EA will sometimes keep paid for games running forever on minimal life support to reap a profit (see UO), they are also well known as the quickest and most arbitrary publisher when it comes to closing down MMO's. They have killed more MMO's then any other publisher combined. They do it with very short notice, and they often do it simply to show some artifiial effect on a corporate balance sheet. Player loyalty means nothing. A stable niche means nothing. Product X did not meet expected revenue goes, product X is gone. Given this corporate environment WAR is pretty much doomed. I am predicting Spring 2010.
Warhammer: Player dependant to survive because it's PvP based. No one signs up for Warhammer and it's bland PvE. Even the devs just admitted it recently that it's "too easy" (see: boring) and claim it was one of their biggest mistakes (which is a lie; they had way more pressing problems). When there is no population in the game's servers, this game grinds to a halt. As people continue to look for opponents without luck on a particular server, they keep shutting down.
AoC: Not player dependant to survive because it's PvE based. It has tons more quests that are more fun to do and has good voiceover acting. You get a better since of immersion in AoC for those who like a story and it's way more grittier than WAR (bloody). The PvE in that game is significantly more satisfying. They have reached the number of servers where they don't have to shut anymore down.
Money aside or who owns what, AoC will probably last longer simply because you can have people playing it without worrying about a warband.
If I was pressed to pick one, I'd say AoC would survive longer.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Right after Age of Conan's funeral
But a little bit before Secret World's funeral.
Actually AoC has a much better long term chance of survival then WAR does.
AoC is owned and operated by Funcom, a development house that is particularly noted for never giving up on an investment, and clawing games back from colosally bad releases. (The fact that they are also known for colosally bad releases is another matter entirely.) So knowing Funcom things would have to get truly critically bad for them to pull the plug. I think AoC has stabilized at a lower but steady player base. Currently its only real risk is Aion drain. AoC also got a boost not long after WAR's release from returning players.
WAR however has a huge huge problem. It is owned by EA,and it has not as of yet recouped its development costs. While EA will sometimes keep paid for games running forever on minimal life support to reap a profit (see UO), they are also well known as the quickest and most arbitrary publisher when it comes to closing down MMO's. They have killed more MMO's then any other publisher combined. They do it with very short notice, and they often do it simply to show some artifiial effect on a corporate balance sheet. Player loyalty means nothing. A stable niche means nothing. Product X did not meet expected revenue goes, product X is gone. Given this corporate environment WAR is pretty much doomed. I am predicting Spring 2010.
Off the top of my head, I can think of only one MMORPG that EA closed: Earth and Beyond. Were there more they closed down?
And, did they close more than three? Because, that's NCSoft's total so far: AC2, Auto Assault, and Tabula Rasa.
When?
Summer 2010. Too much coming out in that year .
You can only merge servers until you reach the final two.
In order: Cataclysm (succes assured), SWkotor (already 1M ...), FFXIV, Star trek.
If a Korean dull copy grinder without any Lore took out 50% of War's final pops, think what the above games will do....
2010 will be the year of the one wedding and 4 funerals era.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
It`s just another thread of players TRYING to wake up the devs, who aren`t paying any attention.
Ok, how about this?
www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php
RIP Orc Choppa
The major flaws of WAR were all pointed out, dissected and highlighted in a very clear fashion as early as in closed beta. The posters who pointed these things out actually got banned or censored...
The astounding stupidity of the developers and their management during beta was god damn perplexing. The community told them "A" and Mythic went and did "X". They just blatantly ignored everything that was ever uttered during the beta and after it, and only today do they even start to catch up to all the complaints.
And the list goes on. And on.
Long reports, pages long, were posted on each of the above subjects and tons of details and effort were put in to try and show Mythic that they needed to change aspects of their game if it was going to be successful. But as previously said, these efforts were completely in vain.
Today they have rectified a few of these issues, but many more persist and they do not seem to be going anywhere. These are all issues that had to be fixed in beta - not 1 year after release. They screwed themselves over.
the only way to save WAR is to take it away from EA and let bioware just rebuild it or better yet just let THQ take over and fix it hell they already working on warhammer 40k online (i hope that game is great)
IN THE FACE!
Quoted for funny.
Playing: DO Trial, EVE 1 Day Buy a PLEX promo.
Played: UO, EQ, AC, GW, WoW, CoX, EQ2, AoC, WURM Online, Ryzom, Eve Online, FE Trial
Genres: 4x strategy, Sim Racing, American/Euro RPG, Fighters
WAR will probably hit the F2P market after some restructuring. The Warhammer Fantasy line has some hardcore fans and I imagine they will stay to the end. Me personally, I really wish they had done a 40k MMO. Sci-fi would have been a breath of fresh air. There are already a ton of fantasy MMOs.
Also, as mentioned earlier there are a ton of BIG NAME MMOs coming out next year. I cannot imagine a struggling game surviving in this environment without becoming F2P. Aion will probably lose subs as well to the games coming out, especially ToR and FFXIV. It's too bad because this game wasn't really bad, it just didn't have much to offer that people couldn't get from WoW. I like the Warhammer universe and this whole thing is kind of a bummer.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!