For all those complaining about raiding and grinding, what exactly do you expect from an expansion? Steefel is very up front about what you can expect, I believe the quote is 100hrs in one of the videos. That probably means all the quests 60-65, the book storyline, and a run through the new instances as well. Anything beyond that, and you are repeating content and grinding. So you are paying $20 for 100hrs of content plus however much extra grinding you want, plus however many book releases they bring out during they year.
An expansion is levelling followed by a new endgame. Endgame in Lotro consists of story, gearing up, and PvMP. It only takes so long to get through the book quests and then you focus on improving your character. I have yet to hear anyone come up with anything else to do in endgame. And to Turbine's credit they are trying something new with the skirmish system.
The expansion sounds ok but I'm not really looking forward to the "Take on the Nazgul and his Fell Beast and beat him down"
We've already done too many of these....beat up the super high level villian things. There should be SOME things in a game (arch-villians) that the characters are NEVER able to take on DIRECTLY.
Otherwise it just starts to become.... Another Nazgul (yawn) beat up one of those in Volume One.... Balrog (yawn)... farmed it a dozen times.
Storytelling 101.... Leave direct confrontations with the biggest, baddest enemies in the world OUT.... otherwise they loose thier entire sense of dread, mystery, suspense and awe...and become old hat. Not to mention it doesn't leave much you can throw at the characters later on in the story.
Things like Nazgul should inspire a sense of fear and dread in the PLAYER.....cause you KNOW no matter how powerfull or high level your character is.....you've got NO CHANCE to survive a direct confrontation with one. Just seeing the hint of one should give you a chill.
There really is a virtue to under-stated. Unfortunately Turbines story-arcs (which were very good in the beggining of the game) more and more start to seem like something written by a marketing guy then an author.
The expansion sounds ok but I'm not really looking forward to the "Take on the Nazgul and his Fell Beast and beat him down" We've already done too many of these....beat up the super high level villian things. There should be SOME things in a game (arch-villians) that the characters are NEVER able to take on DIRECTLY. Otherwise it just starts to become.... Another Nazgul (yawn) beat up one of those in Volume One.... Balrog (yawn)... farmed it a dozen times. Storytelling 101.... Leave direct confrontations with the biggest, baddest enemies in the world OUT.... otherwise they loose thier entire sense of dread, mystery, suspense and awe...and become old hat. Not to mention it doesn't leave much you can throw at the characters later on in the story. Things like Nazgul should inspire a sense of fear and dread in the PLAYER.....cause you KNOW no matter how powerfull or high level your character is.....you've got NO CHANCE to survive a direct confrontation with one. Just seeing the hint of one should give you a chill. There really is a virtue to under-stated. Unfortunately Turbines story-arcs (which were very good in the beggining of the game) more and more start to seem like something written by a marketing guy then an author.
Dude, you are assuming you even "Win" the fight, or kill him.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
The expansion sounds ok but I'm not really looking forward to the "Take on the Nazgul and his Fell Beast and beat him down" We've already done too many of these....beat up the super high level villian things. There should be SOME things in a game (arch-villians) that the characters are NEVER able to take on DIRECTLY. Otherwise it just starts to become.... Another Nazgul (yawn) beat up one of those in Volume One.... Balrog (yawn)... farmed it a dozen times. Storytelling 101.... Leave direct confrontations with the biggest, baddest enemies in the world OUT.... otherwise they loose thier entire sense of dread, mystery, suspense and awe...and become old hat. Not to mention it doesn't leave much you can throw at the characters later on in the story. Things like Nazgul should inspire a sense of fear and dread in the PLAYER.....cause you KNOW no matter how powerfull or high level your character is.....you've got NO CHANCE to survive a direct confrontation with one. Just seeing the hint of one should give you a chill. There really is a virtue to under-stated. Unfortunately Turbines story-arcs (which were very good in the beggining of the game) more and more start to seem like something written by a marketing guy then an author.
And yet Aragorn and the hobbits were able to temporarily keep the 9 at bay. Something as simple as a flash flood (although magically created) was all it needed to take them out of the equation for a bit. And Eowyn was able to take out the chief Nazgul.
I agree that, if such events are too common, then they lose their impact. However, I definitely want to have such events and don't want to wait until the final battle for that to happen. I've enjoyed the way Turbine has implemented those events and they've been rare enough that the chance of another shot at a Nazgul does not seem passe to me. Sure, if you farmed the Rift a lot, then it could get old - but that's optional for any player. If a raid stops being fun, stop playing it. For instance, I've only been into Helegrod about 5 or so times - the last time probably about a year ago. If I ever find the time to go in again with my guild (they still run it every now and then), I think I'd have a blast doing it again.
Last night, I ran 2.8.3 for the first time (which is also the Hall of Mirrors instance). I found myself picking up "lesser rings" from the mobs. It was a geniune lore "wow" moment for me - right down to the quest hand-in text.
If I never got a chance to fight those battles, I think that would be a huge disappointment.
I have quit playing LOTRO all together, even though I am the kins leader. I have a lifetime sub.
I wish all these folk would quit giving turbine a free pass.
Facts are we were promised to have 4 free updates a year. This year 2 updates and both of those should have rolled out with MoM, but did not.
The game now is more buggy than ever, and Turbine continues giong down the wow path. I still talk to friend and all, they say hardly nobody is playing it any more.
Folk are all like omg were getting soldiers and stuff, all I see is more and more hampster wheel of death grindathon instead of real content.
I for one will not be giving them my 19.95 until I actually hear the real reviews on how it plays and not this articles gamespeek of what we already heard at pax.
LotR is facing the age old what do you do at top level issue. Raiding and PvP originally and now weapon grinding are their solutions. If you know of anything else the top levels in a MMO could be doing please tell us.
I'm happey that Mirkwood is first. I can wait to get to Rohan and Mordor even few years and want to see Lonely Mountain and other north-eastern areas first. The more places in middle earth to visit the better.
While I am disappointed to see the level cap increase again (at all really, but let alone so soon after moria), I have to wonder at al lthose complaining about the "grind" or how "raid-centric" this is...I mean really, come on!
3-man instances are NOT raids...the six mans are "barely" raids in any serious sense...LotRO continues to be largely focused on the single-group and below content...which is perfect for every small Kinship or group of friends out there.
As for the "grind"...*every* MMO has a grind. Time spent is the only significant way to gate access in a persistent online world. There is virtually nothing in LotRO that you *must* grind to play or advance. It is *all* optional and concerns things that you simply could do without if you choose to not spend the time on them. (really the only present exception to this is Lothlorien faction, which is only a "grind" if you are farming for specific rewards...doing the quest line once through gets you into and through lothlorien)
I am excited to see the details of the skirmish system (which sounds potentially very interesting) and love that they are finally taking the first steps to allow mounted combat.
Am I "thrilled" to be paying 20 bucks for it, nope, but I'm not overly bent out of shape about it either. I still remember how much I shelled out playing EQ...Kunakr, Velliious, Luclin, Planes of Power and on and on....
I hope Turbine gets back on track with more free content upgrades and less of this paid DL crap, but I am willing to cut them a bit of slack as they are still doing better than most.
LoTRO leaves me in a quandry. I love it yet hate it. I love the world, there are none more beautiful. I love the atmosphere that the game conjures and the immersion I feel exploring it. I have a couple of lvl 60 characters, but it took me a long time to get there because I explored everything, read everything and did a lot of crafting - and I never put in the big hours. I haven't got any of the radiance gear, but I don't mind - I think the gear I have looks great and does the job well enough. I still pay my subscription because I cannot bare to part with a game. I would really like to be there when the level cap finally, after many increments, reaches 100, and you can fight your way to Mount Doom, guarding the door while Frodo does his thing with the ring.
But I never play it any more - I just make donations to Turbine. The gameplay is simply too boring. There is no thrill. It's all so static. The community, which used to be the absolute best, is not what it used to be. The skirmish idea sounds interesting, but I doubt it is enough. I doubt that LoTRO will actually last long enough for us to reach Mount Doom. What will become of Frodo without our help?
The question was asked 'what else do you do end game but raid?' I would like to see the ideas used in Annuminas applied on a far broader front and taken a step further. I like the push and shove that constantly happens between the NPC factions. It would be a matter of taking this idea to a much broader areas of the game and making it relevant to players and encouraging player involvement in this push and shove on a broad level. In other words, the trolls and orcs constantly make forays into the friendly NPC held areas - except let the trolls and orcs win in such battles if players don't join in the fight, and if the trolls and orcs win, then replace all the NPC's in an area with troll and orc NPCs. This could generate a quest - perhaps a non-instanced raid, to get the place back. Again, we see this sort of thing done on a very small scale in Annuminas already. There are plenty of non-instanced quests where groups of enemey NPCs attack friendly NPCs and we must defend them. Use this, but on a larger scale that make the worl dynamic.
The skirmish idea could come into its own here because it could lessen the need to wait on the LFFs. Make the NPC push and shove meaningful - if the enemy holds an area, then quests are not available from friendly NPCs. Randomise the push and shove both in time and number of NPCs involved. In many ways it is still a static themepark world, but it would become more dynamic. Although it might be a little short lived, at least there would be a sense of accomplishment in that you are helping other players by helping hold back the enemy. A sense that your efforts affect the world and other players in a way that an instance can never achieve.
Go up Haldor's flet and wait. At some time a group a ravaging orcs should come streaming across the river and try to get up to that flet. Haldor always escapes to come back at a later stage, but you had better help defend it, along with any other player up there or else the orcs will win past the archers and control that flet. No more quests from Haldor until that flet is recaptured (although there is now a non-instanced skirmish/raid to recapture the flet). And if the flet is not recaptured within 24 hours or whatever, then the orcs NPCs start attacking deeper into friendly territory. Make the strength of attacks gauged on number of players logged on so that there is always a fighting chance, but so that those players who are logged on feel some obligation to help out for the benefit of all Middle Earth.
Imagine playing in Middle Earth and the enemy NPCs do not sit in a static corner waiting for you to come and beat them up, but will randomly attack in numbers an elven, dwarf or ranger held enclave. You must break away from asking for a quest to aid the NPCs and other players to defend the area or risk the area being overrun and access to that quest disappearing until the enemy can be driven out by a larger group of players. Have a frontline more like the Ettenmoors that moves with the tide of battle. Make the world dynamic (at least to some extent).
Then we would have a beautiful immersive world where actions mean something more than a title shared by hundreds of others. What end game is there apart from raiding? Fighting the good fight, helping other players get access to quests and pushing back Sauron's minions.
Well, in a way, there are 9 other raids, since the skirmishes can be done with 12. But yeah, calling LotRO a raid game is stupid. And for all the radiance cry babies, radiance gear will be much easier to get. You won't even need to complete hard mode. Not that it matters, since radiance is being nerfed so that it only onteracts gloom and no longer gives hope. So radiance gear will have no point other than the raid gate. I have never been able to understand the people who whined that the raids were out of reach because they needed radiance. If you could not manage a hard mode, you couldn't handle a raid anyway, so why complain?
I have quit playing LOTRO all together, even though I am the kins leader. I have a lifetime sub. I wish all these folk would quit giving turbine a free pass. Facts are we were promised to have 4 free updates a year. This year 2 updates and both of those should have rolled out with MoM, but did not. The game now is more buggy than ever, and Turbine continues giong down the wow path. I still talk to friend and all, they say hardly nobody is playing it any more. Folk are all like omg were getting soldiers and stuff, all I see is more and more hampster wheel of death grindathon instead of real content. I for one will not be giving them my 19.95 until I actually hear the real reviews on how it plays and not this articles gamespeek of what we already heard at pax.
MMO's, serious life changing business.
We can ignore the fact that your entitlement on something they HOPED to do, is through the roof.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
While I am disappointed to see the level cap increase again (at all really, but let alone so soon after moria), I have to wonder at al lthose complaining about the "grind" or how "raid-centric" this is...I mean really, come on! 3-man instances are NOT raids...the six mans are "barely" raids in any serious sense...LotRO continues to be largely focused on the single-group and below content...which is perfect for every small Kinship or group of friends out there.
This man/woman speaks truth.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I find it absolutely hilarious all of you saying that LOTRO is no longer casual. You sit there, and look at all the OPTIONAL "HARDCORE" CONTENT and say there is nothing for you left. What a load.
QFE. The article mentioned adding a single 12-man, and adding a metric ton of solo, 6-man and even 3-man (?) content in addition to it. And that's on top of this Skirmish system that really should increase the longevity of the game. There are problems with LoTRO, the least of which is it becoming too Hardcore Raid centered. Go play EQ2 if you want to see a raiding community.
LoTRO never feels like a grind for me, I sit back and enjoy the content with my friends. It's literally the only game where I've read most of the quest text, enjoyed the story of the Book quests and not wanted to be at the cap right away. Taking time with alts is one thing, but wanting to read quest text is what makes LoTRO not a grind IMO.
Of course, I could be cynical and look at the $20 download as a cash grab before a large chunk of the user base leaves for Bioware's Star Wars MMO. Still, as I have a lifetime sub, $20 a year isn't much to shell out for everything I get out of the game.
I find it absolutely hilarious all of you saying that LOTRO is no longer casual. You sit there, and look at all the OPTIONAL "HARDCORE" CONTENT and say there is nothing for you left. What a load. Pro tip: Radiance gear is only useful for one thing. you guessed it, RAIDS. There is alike a grand total of 5-6 raids in the entire game. Everything else is for solo, small groups, or 6 mans, including skirmishes and the rest of the new content in this expansion. You do not need to do anything, or have any of the radiance gear, EVER unless you are raiding. For fucks sake, it even says right in the article you will now be able to see where a legendary items is going in its progression before investing time in it AND you will be able to craft 3ed and second age items. Not to mention the horse, and bank changes, zone revamps, recent crafting changes and bag stacking. Clearly most of you do not know what casual means, or what hardcore is, OR how good you have it with this game. Your just re spouting out the same dribble you read on a forum somewhere.
I find it absolutely hilarious all of you saying that LOTRO is no longer casual. You sit there, and look at all the OPTIONAL "HARDCORE" CONTENT and say there is nothing for you left. What a load. Pro tip: Radiance gear is only useful for one thing. you guessed it, RAIDS. There is alike a grand total of 5-6 raids in the entire game. Everything else is for solo, small groups, or 6 mans, including skirmishes and the rest of the new content in this expansion. You do not need to do anything, or have any of the radiance gear, EVER unless you are raiding. For fucks sake, it even says right in the article you will now be able to see where a legendary items is going in its progression before investing time in it AND you will be able to craft 3ed and second age items. Not to mention the horse, and bank changes, zone revamps, recent crafting changes and bag stacking. Clearly most of you do not know what casual means, or what hardcore is, OR how good you have it with this game. Your just re spouting out the same dribble you read on a forum somewhere.
All stuff that should be in a free book release.
Most that I listed was. I listed very little of whats coming in the expansion, apparently, you have no idea what is what, thus your comments are moot. I listed all the recent and expansion changes that continue to make LOTRO a game very respectful of its player-bases time.
Problem is, most of you do not realize how much work most of the changes coming in the expansion is. The skirmish system is not something someone made in an evening.
Scope, and perceptive, look it up. The expansion is also 20$. Many in this player base have been spoiled, Turbine still releases more free content and new feature more frequently, and with more quality and quantity than any other development house.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Of course, I could be cynical and look at the $20 download as a cash grab before a large chunk of the user base leaves for Bioware's Star Wars MMO. Still, as I have a lifetime sub, $20 a year isn't much to shell out for everything I get out of the game.
Eh why would people leave a MMO for a game that is far from release which we know almost nothing about and what we know isnt very promising?
How could they give a huge content update like this for free? Other companies would charge full price for this amount of content but SoM is only $20...
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
The mods here need to stop breaking threads. The last page button, and the number of the last page is now broken, this has happened in about 15 threads on the site so far. To the point where a rely boots you to the general discussion forums.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
The expansion sounds ok but I'm not really looking forward to the "Take on the Nazgul and his Fell Beast and beat him down" We've already done too many of these....beat up the super high level villian things. There should be SOME things in a game (arch-villians) that the characters are NEVER able to take on DIRECTLY. Otherwise it just starts to become.... Another Nazgul (yawn) beat up one of those in Volume One.... Balrog (yawn)... farmed it a dozen times. Storytelling 101.... Leave direct confrontations with the biggest, baddest enemies in the world OUT.... otherwise they loose thier entire sense of dread, mystery, suspense and awe...and become old hat. Not to mention it doesn't leave much you can throw at the characters later on in the story. Things like Nazgul should inspire a sense of fear and dread in the PLAYER.....cause you KNOW no matter how powerfull or high level your character is.....you've got NO CHANCE to survive a direct confrontation with one. Just seeing the hint of one should give you a chill. There really is a virtue to under-stated. Unfortunately Turbines story-arcs (which were very good in the beggining of the game) more and more start to seem like something written by a marketing guy then an author.
And yet Aragorn and the hobbits were able to temporarily keep the 9 at bay. Something as simple as a flash flood (although magically created) was all it needed to take them out of the equation for a bit. And Eowyn was able to take out the chief Nazgul.
I agree that, if such events are too common, then they lose their impact. However, I definitely want to have such events and don't want to wait until the final battle for that to happen. I've enjoyed the way Turbine has implemented those events and they've been rare enough that the chance of another shot at a Nazgul does not seem passe to me. Sure, if you farmed the Rift a lot, then it could get old - but that's optional for any player. If a raid stops being fun, stop playing it. For instance, I've only been into Helegrod about 5 or so times - the last time probably about a year ago. If I ever find the time to go in again with my guild (they still run it every now and then), I think I'd have a blast doing it again.
Last night, I ran 2.8.3 for the first time (which is also the Hall of Mirrors instance). I found myself picking up "lesser rings" from the mobs. It was a geniune lore "wow" moment for me - right down to the quest hand-in text.
If I never got a chance to fight those battles, I think that would be a huge disappointment.
Well, I guess we'll just agree to disagree on that. I'll just mention that Tolkien draws heavily on the old concepts of Fate and Doom. The reason Eowyn COULD take down the Witch King was because she was the one fated to do so. No swordsman, no matter how brave, strong or skilled could achieve that because the Witch King was doomed to never fall to the hand of any man.... and he didn't it.
Furthermore, there are many things that Aragorn does in the books because only HE can do them. Remember, not only is he not just any old wanderer in the wild... he's not even just any Dunedain either. He is Isildurs heir.... that blood-line means something special in Tolkiens World.
As far as our characters go.... we're just supposed to be the Ordinary sort of hero's that you might see get a passing mention in the book (e.g Hama) .... At least that was Turbines origional concept (as they described it) when they first released the game.... and one I REALLY LIKED. That's why we are not allowed to play Dunedain or Elf Lords. There is something far richer (IMO) to being forced to play those ordinary sorts of hero's with all thier flaws, failings and short-comings.
Playing the guy with the cape and the big S on his chest.... gets very one dimensional and frankly cartoonish very quickly. It seems to me that Turbine keeps upping the ante with how powerfull our characters are supposed to be in the world.... I guess they are going for the "Iconic" or "Epic" or whatever the marketing-speak buzzword of the day is. I just wish they had stuck with thier origional guns and kept things on a more subtle/low key level. Honestly I think they are letting thier marketing guys drive thier content and tone.....and frankly marketing guys stink as story-tellers, GM's, and world designers.
The game had pretty much the perfect feel for me right around when our characters were 15-20th level or so. The more we advance the more Monty Haulish/Monty Pythonish it starts to feel..... and frankly the further away (for me) it feels from the essence of Tolkiens creation.
The preponderance of long-time LotRO players are very unhappy with the direction the new development team is taking with the game. We'd like to see them stop worshipping at the old-style fantasy MMO god, reverse direction and move forward and never look back.
The profound dislike with the old-style stuff is all over the official forum and a focal point of many threads on all thewell-known fan sties, as well. Impossible to ignore or dismiss, even if you're a LotRO/Turbine fanboi and/or a lover of the now-tiresome old, outdated standbys of fantasy MMO game play.
We'd like to see more polish to what we have (mounts are a joke, for example) and more forward thinking (like skirmishes). We need even more improvements to crafting; lets not forget how silly the half-ass housing has remained the same, unchanged since it was hastily thrown in). Polish. LotRO is screaming "Polish me!."
Unfortunately the current dev regime made it clear that they will remain stubbornly fixated on many of the tired old-school WoW-like (use EQ2 here and the like) systems, foolishly justifying this in their mistaken impression that it will bring more people to the game.
While I agree there is plenty they could and should be working on, it's not like none of what you want is there.
The new skirmish system IS there. They are taking the first steps towards making mounts usable in combat. They are making crafting more important to end game legendaries.
All three of those are things you say they need to do and well they are doing them. Look on the bright side for once?
This is really simple. The preponderance of long-time LotRO players are very unhappy with the direction the new development team is taking with the game. We'd like to see them stop worshipping at the old-style fantasy MMO god, reverse direction and move forward and never look back. The profound dislike with the old-style stuff is all over the official forum and a focal point of many threads on all thewell-known fan sties, as well. Impossible to ignore or dismiss, even if you're a LotRO/Turbine fanboi and/or a lover of the now-tiresome old, outdated standbys of fantasy MMO game play. We'd like to see more polish to what we have (mounts are a joke, for example) and more forward thinking (like skirmishes). We need even more improvements to crafting; lets not forget how silly the half-ass housing has remained the same, unchanged since it was hastily thrown in). Polish. LotRO is screaming "Polish me!." Unfortunately the current dev regime made it clear that they will remain stubbornly fixated on many of the tired old-school WoW-like (use EQ2 here and the like) systems, foolishly justifying this in their mistaken impression that it will bring more people to the game. Sad.
While it is true a lot of folks are unhappy. All you have to do is log into game and see the numbers. Saturday night I went to each region and did a /who to see what all I cam up with. A total of around 2900 folks playing, durring prime time hours. Saturday morning less than 100 total server wide.
I think a lot of folks are playing other things while waiting for the dev team to give us details. Things we do know about the relase. We getting level cap increase, were getting some kind of tune up to LI system, and a skrimage system. Were also getting more radiance gating something that has been an issue for a year, instead of fixing it now there just splitting it off.
Only time will tell, moria was a bad publish. I would bet that were going to have months worth of fixes after this thing goes live. All in all the game has departed from something special the token world back to just another game with a token skin on it.
"All in all the game has departed from something special the token world back to just another game with a token skin on it."
Freudian slip, eh Eric? Still on point, though.
I'm a lifetime founder so I'll be checking to see how long it takes for Turbine to get back on course with this game. If they do manage to listen like they used to and get away from their current bent on old style, outdated MMO "features," great. I'd love to return to logging in and playing LotRO regularly. If not, I'll just continue beta testing Star Wars: The Old Republic.
Comments
For all those complaining about raiding and grinding, what exactly do you expect from an expansion? Steefel is very up front about what you can expect, I believe the quote is 100hrs in one of the videos. That probably means all the quests 60-65, the book storyline, and a run through the new instances as well. Anything beyond that, and you are repeating content and grinding. So you are paying $20 for 100hrs of content plus however much extra grinding you want, plus however many book releases they bring out during they year.
An expansion is levelling followed by a new endgame. Endgame in Lotro consists of story, gearing up, and PvMP. It only takes so long to get through the book quests and then you focus on improving your character. I have yet to hear anyone come up with anything else to do in endgame. And to Turbine's credit they are trying something new with the skirmish system.
The only thing im worried about with this expansion is it sounds like it will be the death of MPvP. Why not do the skirmish stuff in th Ettenmoors?
The expansion sounds ok but I'm not really looking forward to the "Take on the Nazgul and his Fell Beast and beat him down"
We've already done too many of these....beat up the super high level villian things. There should be SOME things in a game (arch-villians) that the characters are NEVER able to take on DIRECTLY.
Otherwise it just starts to become.... Another Nazgul (yawn) beat up one of those in Volume One.... Balrog (yawn)... farmed it a dozen times.
Storytelling 101.... Leave direct confrontations with the biggest, baddest enemies in the world OUT.... otherwise they loose thier entire sense of dread, mystery, suspense and awe...and become old hat. Not to mention it doesn't leave much you can throw at the characters later on in the story.
Things like Nazgul should inspire a sense of fear and dread in the PLAYER.....cause you KNOW no matter how powerfull or high level your character is.....you've got NO CHANCE to survive a direct confrontation with one. Just seeing the hint of one should give you a chill.
There really is a virtue to under-stated. Unfortunately Turbines story-arcs (which were very good in the beggining of the game) more and more start to seem like something written by a marketing guy then an author.
Dude, you are assuming you even "Win" the fight, or kill him.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
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How are you?" -Me
And yet Aragorn and the hobbits were able to temporarily keep the 9 at bay. Something as simple as a flash flood (although magically created) was all it needed to take them out of the equation for a bit. And Eowyn was able to take out the chief Nazgul.
I agree that, if such events are too common, then they lose their impact. However, I definitely want to have such events and don't want to wait until the final battle for that to happen. I've enjoyed the way Turbine has implemented those events and they've been rare enough that the chance of another shot at a Nazgul does not seem passe to me. Sure, if you farmed the Rift a lot, then it could get old - but that's optional for any player. If a raid stops being fun, stop playing it. For instance, I've only been into Helegrod about 5 or so times - the last time probably about a year ago. If I ever find the time to go in again with my guild (they still run it every now and then), I think I'd have a blast doing it again.
Last night, I ran 2.8.3 for the first time (which is also the Hall of Mirrors instance). I found myself picking up "lesser rings" from the mobs. It was a geniune lore "wow" moment for me - right down to the quest hand-in text.
If I never got a chance to fight those battles, I think that would be a huge disappointment.
Slainte Mhath!
I have quit playing LOTRO all together, even though I am the kins leader. I have a lifetime sub.
I wish all these folk would quit giving turbine a free pass.
Facts are we were promised to have 4 free updates a year. This year 2 updates and both of those should have rolled out with MoM, but did not.
The game now is more buggy than ever, and Turbine continues giong down the wow path. I still talk to friend and all, they say hardly nobody is playing it any more.
Folk are all like omg were getting soldiers and stuff, all I see is more and more hampster wheel of death grindathon instead of real content.
I for one will not be giving them my 19.95 until I actually hear the real reviews on how it plays and not this articles gamespeek of what we already heard at pax.
LotR is facing the age old what do you do at top level issue. Raiding and PvP originally and now weapon grinding are their solutions. If you know of anything else the top levels in a MMO could be doing please tell us.
I'm happey that Mirkwood is first. I can wait to get to Rohan and Mordor even few years and want to see Lonely Mountain and other north-eastern areas first. The more places in middle earth to visit the better.
While I am disappointed to see the level cap increase again (at all really, but let alone so soon after moria), I have to wonder at al lthose complaining about the "grind" or how "raid-centric" this is...I mean really, come on!
3-man instances are NOT raids...the six mans are "barely" raids in any serious sense...LotRO continues to be largely focused on the single-group and below content...which is perfect for every small Kinship or group of friends out there.
As for the "grind"...*every* MMO has a grind. Time spent is the only significant way to gate access in a persistent online world. There is virtually nothing in LotRO that you *must* grind to play or advance. It is *all* optional and concerns things that you simply could do without if you choose to not spend the time on them. (really the only present exception to this is Lothlorien faction, which is only a "grind" if you are farming for specific rewards...doing the quest line once through gets you into and through lothlorien)
I am excited to see the details of the skirmish system (which sounds potentially very interesting) and love that they are finally taking the first steps to allow mounted combat.
Am I "thrilled" to be paying 20 bucks for it, nope, but I'm not overly bent out of shape about it either. I still remember how much I shelled out playing EQ...Kunakr, Velliious, Luclin, Planes of Power and on and on....
I hope Turbine gets back on track with more free content upgrades and less of this paid DL crap, but I am willing to cut them a bit of slack as they are still doing better than most.
LoTRO leaves me in a quandry. I love it yet hate it. I love the world, there are none more beautiful. I love the atmosphere that the game conjures and the immersion I feel exploring it. I have a couple of lvl 60 characters, but it took me a long time to get there because I explored everything, read everything and did a lot of crafting - and I never put in the big hours. I haven't got any of the radiance gear, but I don't mind - I think the gear I have looks great and does the job well enough. I still pay my subscription because I cannot bare to part with a game. I would really like to be there when the level cap finally, after many increments, reaches 100, and you can fight your way to Mount Doom, guarding the door while Frodo does his thing with the ring.
But I never play it any more - I just make donations to Turbine. The gameplay is simply too boring. There is no thrill. It's all so static. The community, which used to be the absolute best, is not what it used to be. The skirmish idea sounds interesting, but I doubt it is enough. I doubt that LoTRO will actually last long enough for us to reach Mount Doom. What will become of Frodo without our help?
The question was asked 'what else do you do end game but raid?' I would like to see the ideas used in Annuminas applied on a far broader front and taken a step further. I like the push and shove that constantly happens between the NPC factions. It would be a matter of taking this idea to a much broader areas of the game and making it relevant to players and encouraging player involvement in this push and shove on a broad level. In other words, the trolls and orcs constantly make forays into the friendly NPC held areas - except let the trolls and orcs win in such battles if players don't join in the fight, and if the trolls and orcs win, then replace all the NPC's in an area with troll and orc NPCs. This could generate a quest - perhaps a non-instanced raid, to get the place back. Again, we see this sort of thing done on a very small scale in Annuminas already. There are plenty of non-instanced quests where groups of enemey NPCs attack friendly NPCs and we must defend them. Use this, but on a larger scale that make the worl dynamic.
The skirmish idea could come into its own here because it could lessen the need to wait on the LFFs. Make the NPC push and shove meaningful - if the enemy holds an area, then quests are not available from friendly NPCs. Randomise the push and shove both in time and number of NPCs involved. In many ways it is still a static themepark world, but it would become more dynamic. Although it might be a little short lived, at least there would be a sense of accomplishment in that you are helping other players by helping hold back the enemy. A sense that your efforts affect the world and other players in a way that an instance can never achieve.
Go up Haldor's flet and wait. At some time a group a ravaging orcs should come streaming across the river and try to get up to that flet. Haldor always escapes to come back at a later stage, but you had better help defend it, along with any other player up there or else the orcs will win past the archers and control that flet. No more quests from Haldor until that flet is recaptured (although there is now a non-instanced skirmish/raid to recapture the flet). And if the flet is not recaptured within 24 hours or whatever, then the orcs NPCs start attacking deeper into friendly territory. Make the strength of attacks gauged on number of players logged on so that there is always a fighting chance, but so that those players who are logged on feel some obligation to help out for the benefit of all Middle Earth.
Imagine playing in Middle Earth and the enemy NPCs do not sit in a static corner waiting for you to come and beat them up, but will randomly attack in numbers an elven, dwarf or ranger held enclave. You must break away from asking for a quest to aid the NPCs and other players to defend the area or risk the area being overrun and access to that quest disappearing until the enemy can be driven out by a larger group of players. Have a frontline more like the Ettenmoors that moves with the tide of battle. Make the world dynamic (at least to some extent).
Then we would have a beautiful immersive world where actions mean something more than a title shared by hundreds of others. What end game is there apart from raiding? Fighting the good fight, helping other players get access to quests and pushing back Sauron's minions.
Well, in a way, there are 9 other raids, since the skirmishes can be done with 12. But yeah, calling LotRO a raid game is stupid. And for all the radiance cry babies, radiance gear will be much easier to get. You won't even need to complete hard mode. Not that it matters, since radiance is being nerfed so that it only onteracts gloom and no longer gives hope. So radiance gear will have no point other than the raid gate. I have never been able to understand the people who whined that the raids were out of reach because they needed radiance. If you could not manage a hard mode, you couldn't handle a raid anyway, so why complain?
MMO's, serious life changing business.
We can ignore the fact that your entitlement on something they HOPED to do, is through the roof.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
This expansion will be great cant for it to come out.
This man/woman speaks truth.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
QFE. The article mentioned adding a single 12-man, and adding a metric ton of solo, 6-man and even 3-man (?) content in addition to it. And that's on top of this Skirmish system that really should increase the longevity of the game. There are problems with LoTRO, the least of which is it becoming too Hardcore Raid centered. Go play EQ2 if you want to see a raiding community.
LoTRO never feels like a grind for me, I sit back and enjoy the content with my friends. It's literally the only game where I've read most of the quest text, enjoyed the story of the Book quests and not wanted to be at the cap right away. Taking time with alts is one thing, but wanting to read quest text is what makes LoTRO not a grind IMO.
I play games
Of course, I could be cynical and look at the $20 download as a cash grab before a large chunk of the user base leaves for Bioware's Star Wars MMO. Still, as I have a lifetime sub, $20 a year isn't much to shell out for everything I get out of the game.
Slainte Mhath!
All stuff that should be in a free book release.
All stuff that should be in a free book release.
Most that I listed was. I listed very little of whats coming in the expansion, apparently, you have no idea what is what, thus your comments are moot. I listed all the recent and expansion changes that continue to make LOTRO a game very respectful of its player-bases time.
Problem is, most of you do not realize how much work most of the changes coming in the expansion is. The skirmish system is not something someone made in an evening.
Scope, and perceptive, look it up. The expansion is also 20$. Many in this player base have been spoiled, Turbine still releases more free content and new feature more frequently, and with more quality and quantity than any other development house.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Eh why would people leave a MMO for a game that is far from release which we know almost nothing about and what we know isnt very promising?
How could they give a huge content update like this for free? Other companies would charge full price for this amount of content but SoM is only $20...
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
The mods here need to stop breaking threads. The last page button, and the number of the last page is now broken, this has happened in about 15 threads on the site so far. To the point where a rely boots you to the general discussion forums.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
And yet Aragorn and the hobbits were able to temporarily keep the 9 at bay. Something as simple as a flash flood (although magically created) was all it needed to take them out of the equation for a bit. And Eowyn was able to take out the chief Nazgul.
I agree that, if such events are too common, then they lose their impact. However, I definitely want to have such events and don't want to wait until the final battle for that to happen. I've enjoyed the way Turbine has implemented those events and they've been rare enough that the chance of another shot at a Nazgul does not seem passe to me. Sure, if you farmed the Rift a lot, then it could get old - but that's optional for any player. If a raid stops being fun, stop playing it. For instance, I've only been into Helegrod about 5 or so times - the last time probably about a year ago. If I ever find the time to go in again with my guild (they still run it every now and then), I think I'd have a blast doing it again.
Last night, I ran 2.8.3 for the first time (which is also the Hall of Mirrors instance). I found myself picking up "lesser rings" from the mobs. It was a geniune lore "wow" moment for me - right down to the quest hand-in text.
If I never got a chance to fight those battles, I think that would be a huge disappointment.
Well, I guess we'll just agree to disagree on that. I'll just mention that Tolkien draws heavily on the old concepts of Fate and Doom. The reason Eowyn COULD take down the Witch King was because she was the one fated to do so. No swordsman, no matter how brave, strong or skilled could achieve that because the Witch King was doomed to never fall to the hand of any man.... and he didn't it.
Furthermore, there are many things that Aragorn does in the books because only HE can do them. Remember, not only is he not just any old wanderer in the wild... he's not even just any Dunedain either. He is Isildurs heir.... that blood-line means something special in Tolkiens World.
As far as our characters go.... we're just supposed to be the Ordinary sort of hero's that you might see get a passing mention in the book (e.g Hama) .... At least that was Turbines origional concept (as they described it) when they first released the game.... and one I REALLY LIKED. That's why we are not allowed to play Dunedain or Elf Lords. There is something far richer (IMO) to being forced to play those ordinary sorts of hero's with all thier flaws, failings and short-comings.
Playing the guy with the cape and the big S on his chest.... gets very one dimensional and frankly cartoonish very quickly. It seems to me that Turbine keeps upping the ante with how powerfull our characters are supposed to be in the world.... I guess they are going for the "Iconic" or "Epic" or whatever the marketing-speak buzzword of the day is. I just wish they had stuck with thier origional guns and kept things on a more subtle/low key level. Honestly I think they are letting thier marketing guys drive thier content and tone.....and frankly marketing guys stink as story-tellers, GM's, and world designers.
The game had pretty much the perfect feel for me right around when our characters were 15-20th level or so. The more we advance the more Monty Haulish/Monty Pythonish it starts to feel..... and frankly the further away (for me) it feels from the essence of Tolkiens creation.
This is really simple.
The preponderance of long-time LotRO players are very unhappy with the direction the new development team is taking with the game. We'd like to see them stop worshipping at the old-style fantasy MMO god, reverse direction and move forward and never look back.
The profound dislike with the old-style stuff is all over the official forum and a focal point of many threads on all thewell-known fan sties, as well. Impossible to ignore or dismiss, even if you're a LotRO/Turbine fanboi and/or a lover of the now-tiresome old, outdated standbys of fantasy MMO game play.
We'd like to see more polish to what we have (mounts are a joke, for example) and more forward thinking (like skirmishes). We need even more improvements to crafting; lets not forget how silly the half-ass housing has remained the same, unchanged since it was hastily thrown in). Polish. LotRO is screaming "Polish me!."
Unfortunately the current dev regime made it clear that they will remain stubbornly fixated on many of the tired old-school WoW-like (use EQ2 here and the like) systems, foolishly justifying this in their mistaken impression that it will bring more people to the game.
Sad.
While I agree there is plenty they could and should be working on, it's not like none of what you want is there.
The new skirmish system IS there. They are taking the first steps towards making mounts usable in combat. They are making crafting more important to end game legendaries.
All three of those are things you say they need to do and well they are doing them. Look on the bright side for once?
While it is true a lot of folks are unhappy. All you have to do is log into game and see the numbers. Saturday night I went to each region and did a /who to see what all I cam up with. A total of around 2900 folks playing, durring prime time hours. Saturday morning less than 100 total server wide.
I think a lot of folks are playing other things while waiting for the dev team to give us details. Things we do know about the relase. We getting level cap increase, were getting some kind of tune up to LI system, and a skrimage system. Were also getting more radiance gating something that has been an issue for a year, instead of fixing it now there just splitting it off.
Only time will tell, moria was a bad publish. I would bet that were going to have months worth of fixes after this thing goes live. All in all the game has departed from something special the token world back to just another game with a token skin on it.
"All in all the game has departed from something special the token world back to just another game with a token skin on it."
Freudian slip, eh Eric? Still on point, though.
I'm a lifetime founder so I'll be checking to see how long it takes for Turbine to get back on course with this game. If they do manage to listen like they used to and get away from their current bent on old style, outdated MMO "features," great. I'd love to return to logging in and playing LotRO regularly. If not, I'll just continue beta testing Star Wars: The Old Republic.