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Quoted from http://theaphelion.wordpress.com/category/daily-thoughts/ffxi-daily-thoughts/
" Many have recently pointed to Square’s “new addititions” to FFXI as a way to grab new members from the disgruntaled Warcraft community. To bridge the transition and to ease them into the long journey their first time to 75.
My contention though is new players don’t really care to enjoy FFXI. They don’t care to work through the weird UI or endure the clunky graphics. But can you really blame new players for not sticking it through with FFXI? This is a new market and new generation of mmo’ers, the thrid, or WoW, generaton.
- This is a generation that grew up on FFX, not FFV.
- Most now a days began their mmo career in either WoW, LotRO, or MapleStory and not UO, EQ or free MUDs.
- They learned to rvr in Warhammer and not DoAC, and they think you pvp to get gear.
- They live in a world where Darkfall’s release has only been pushed back once!
- A world where “of course Vanguard failed”.
- They think mission running in EvE is “what you do” to play the game.
- Most can’t even remember originally WoW’s only raid bosses were classic outdoor spawns which guilds fought over, that many believed it to be the spiritual successor to EQ (before massive instancing, reduction in xp needed to level, and pvp regulated to BG’s).
- Most think AoC was original in it’s world pvp implementation. (god rest your soul Shadowbane)
- A generation where FPS’s reign supreme, action can’t come fast enough, and rewards must come quickly and cheaply.
In a game where the new player experience hasn’t changed since 2002, a game where (at least initially) you can’t move around with the wasd keys, a game where you have to hack your own registry to make the graphics actually look good, a game where the frist 10-15 levels are the loneliest grinding (not questing) in the game, you expect this new generation to get it and tough it out?
FFXI’s great accomplishments are it’s storyline, complexity, and livability of it’s world. I guess you could say it’s greatest accomplishment really is the sense of accomplishment you get by progressing.
Square can do all they like to try to attract this new 3rd generation of MMO’ers, but I can tell you it won’t work. Honestly, Square and the FFXI community shouldn’t expect new players from this generation to understand why FFXI is what it is, a good old-fashion bad a$$ mmorpg.
-D^t "
I really enjoyed reading his article. And after reading it I thought "So what will SE remove/add to make 14 palatable to the masses, as the attempt was obviously made in FF11" .
In another anti-hype thread I am asking FF11 fans--> if they think that SE will make this game easier in terms of lvling, like they did with Fields of Valour in FF11. WIll they will make quests eaiser, like they did with AU Missions? WIll they will make NMs easier, like they did with pop NMs? Will they make partying easier, like they did with level sync, or remove the need for it almost completely? And Lastly, what are your thoughts on the community that FF11's succesor might host because of this.
With the implementation of: no exp/skillpoint loss with death(not for sure), level sync, decreased forced party play except for in boss fights, instanced battling , instanced questing, it does look like they are going for the Wow crowd. Will we see that games mindset permeate the community? Will all those people who reactivated FF11 accounts, just stay there, even after FF14 is released?
Of course we will have to wait and see, but there is no reason not to look objectively at the information we are being given and wonder at its affects in a gaming community. I would rather expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised, than hype FF14 to the moon and afterwards be distraught(sp) because a bunch of crazies are jumping around me in circles during an NM fight.
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
Comments
Good post.
I don't know the answer unfortunately, but if FFXIV is not the true successor to the FFXI we remember (and for the reasons we remember it) then what else currently in development might be? I didn't play most of the single player FF's, but I enjoyed FFXI for what it was, a deep and challenging MMO with a strong community something none that came after could equal.
They could take away some of the complexity (which it seems they will be doing), the investment in my character (again they seem to be doing this), the immersion of learning things yourself (yep), and the group focus (seems to be at least to some extent) but still deliver a game that I will enjoy. It just wouldn't be for all the same reasons I enjoyed FFXI, I hope they don't just take these things away without giving the people who thoroughly enjoyed FFXI for what it was something new which at the end of the day is equally as rewarding.
My faith in Square Enix rests in the fact that their one and only MMO FFXI was what it was, and so as a result my money is theirs to lose. But if they don't deliver with an experience that can engage me at least on some level like FFXI did (and other MMO's didn't) I might just have to give up on MMO's completely for the foreseeable future.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Geesus ,if i didn't know better i'd swear i wrote that lol.
I think i agree with every single part of that article,i don't remember the last time i agreed with half an article let alone the whole thing
The only thing i might add ,is that back in the day ONLINE was relegated i would say to an older generation,al lthese wow kids were playing free on battle net.The majority also had 56k,and there was literally no advertising for MMORPG's beyond say Eq.
Once Cable internet became affordable and more parents finally broke down and bought it on top of their cable tv subscription,all those little kids that could not afford to play,could now play.
Along comes WOW ,the first REAL hyped up MMO,and all the kids latch onto to this so called new giant.Also back at the time,99% of the people/kids watching videos believed that those scripted videos was actual game play and thought WHOA ! wow looks cool..lol.,not.
In the end a game that actually strives to make people play for the game play,and not for the ego of speed leveling or PVP,will not attract these WOWesque type of players.I was thinking Square might go one step further and cater to the PVP gaming fanatics,i was happy to hear they did not give in to that cheap aspect of gaining subscriptions.PVP alone would have net i am sure FFXIV probably another 2-3+ million subs.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I'd probably add even during console play the FF franchise never made it a goal to "continue" a storyline for the most part. Whether it was FF4 or FF5 or 7, they all pretty much stood out as their own individual games with unique storylines but featuring similar mobs, avatars, spells, etc. FF14 is an oddity in that it is taking FF11 more or less and "rebuilding" it from ground up. Its true that the initial players for FF11 differed dramatically from those who joined after console release. I also think there is truth in that the gamers who played mmo's during the UO, EQ days were dramatically different from the types that played solely console games.
FF14 probably isn't going to make itself as the "anti-war", if anything that's what Aion is really and currently is. When I think of the so-called "old-school" mmo players vs. console, I think the console players overall wanted overall fast gameplay and easy satisfaction and have a solid direction of "if you want this item, you have to do this for it".
Having said that I wouldn't mind it if FF14 tried something unique or inventive. I can't ever imagine SE taking a sandbox approach to FF (I think they really lack the experience and insight for it) but I also would like it if they get their creativity hats on and try something new. Most of the mmo industry feels like Pixar and movies, why can't the rest of Hollywood make stuff as unique and good as Pixar does on a continual basis and not rehash old movie scripts and present them as new.
Im not sure I understand what you mean by your stance on the console gamer, Sdeleon. The game was always intended to be on the PS2 and was on it very early in its lifetime. I think the NA release of the game was simultaneous with PS2 and PC. It was only Xbox 360 that came out years and years later. I could be wrong. I don;t think there was ever a FF11 "community" before the PS2 that was dramatically changed after the PS2 version. It was with time that SE tried to cater to a new crowd, not the use of the console(maybe the implementation of the 360 I dunno).
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
Personnally who cares about what everyone like, as long i like and that it is all it matter.
FYI, this generation is all about Free 2 play. If it is not F2P, the mmo isn't going to get play much.
but do people still understand the fact, a pay to play game actually is better then F2P ? you might save a movie ticket every month to your neighborhood theater, but in fact your worlds changes to what people want instead of waiting for you to buy "free leveling X of day" enough to change.
FFXI have got the story, i love and i played it for its story and community. FFXIV will carry "story" that i will love and hopefully the same community.
Chain of promethia ROCKS. I also like ToAU (especially shantotto + me taking on khermia 13)
none
A few things....
1. Thought post-wow was '2nd Gen', and first was before it. Hardcore > Casual. (i guess they count non-3d as 1st, but there was not a big change of playerbase)
2. You guys need to RELAX. Have faith in SE. They hint so much that its still going to be a hardcore game that is community orientated.
They didnt put PvP in. That should be a sign. They are most liekly giving us somethign to do while LFP, as they keep saying.
(Which is great, cause even I thought it was rediculous that i would spend 5 mins and almost die for 20xp trying to solo)
3. They've said they've learned their mistakes from FFXI, they would try something new (lvl sync/valour/ect) and sometimes fail.
4. NA launch had PC first, and PS2 a few months after.
5. As someone said, harcore MMO is the way to go right now buisness wise; Casual MMOs get played a short time, then they all run back to WoW.
SE is a smart company, FFXI is still the largest MMO in Japan, have faith.
Well the thing is this, that whole giving us somethign to do while LFP, other games did that too. In fact all the new games do it, and a lot of people would say that makes them not community oriented. It sounds nice on paper to be able to solo, but in practice when soloing is a viable alternative (or at least seen as such) people treat grouping like the plague.
It is this way in many of the current MMO's. Yes I know you still "can" group, and by that most people mean with friends. Now I played a lot with friends in FFXI, but I liked pick up groups as well. That is what I think when I think of community oriented, the pick up groups made the community of FFXI what it was.
People somehow need to be encouraged to work together even when they don't already know eachother (even when they don't even speak the same language!), I hope they will be, I prefer to think that SE won't stray away from this encouraged cooperation as it seems to be what the series is all about (ironically enough though most of the games are single player). I just don't see how they are going to do it yet, and so it is something a lot of people are justifiably worried about looking at every other game on the market and how they handle grouping.
I have faith, and I'll buy it pretty much no matter what hoping I will find something I'll enjoy, but I'm just saying the community created by the way FFXI was originally designed was its main selling point for me, so I hope something similar will be done in FFXIV even if I don't see how exactly they are gonna pull it off this time yet.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Well the thing is this, that whole giving us somethign to do while LFP, other games did that too. In fact all the new games do it, and a lot of people would say that makes them not community oriented. It sounds nice on paper to be able to solo, but in practice when soloing is a viable alternative (or at least seen as such) people treat grouping like the plague.
It is this way in many of the current MMO's. Yes I know you still "can" group, and by that most people mean with friends. Now I played a lot with friends in FFXI, but I liked pick up groups as well. That is what I think when I think of community oriented, the pick up groups made the community of FFXI what it was.
People somehow need to be encouraged to work together even when they don't already know eachother (even when they don't even speak the same language!), I hope they will be, I prefer to think that SE won't stray away from this encouraged cooperation as it seems to be what the series is all about (ironically enough though most of the games are single player). I just don't see how they are going to do it yet, and so it is something a lot of people are justifiably worried about looking at every other game on the market and how they handle grouping.
I have faith, and I'll buy it pretty much no matter what hoping I will find something I'll enjoy, but I'm just saying the community created by the way FFXI was originally designed was its main selling point for me, so I hope something similar will be done in FFXIV even if I don't see how exactly they are gonna pull it off this time yet.
I would disagree on them making it 'Solo Orientated'
Just like they put PvP in FFXI, but it was restricted as a game.
Most likely Solo will be restricted to guildleaves, as thats where they have only mentioned it.
If they "Say" its going to have solo in it, they have a chance to draw in new players, and then have them find out its not too solo-friendly.
agreed, its going to be a well formulated scheme by SE to draw a player base and then keep them there with graphics, seemed together by a strong party system, where solo is friendly, and a healthy alternative, with parties being faster to gain special items, new areas, and enjoyable gameplay.
Who do you agree with, because that is not what CD said. He said he thinks that Solo play will not be very friendly, nor a "healthy alternative" in the long run of the game. He means that though they say "Hey WOW players come play this", in time they will find that it is not quite as soloable as their old game. We will have to wait and see.
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
There has to be a balance to group and solo play. Other games have failed that balance not because soloing was viable but because it was more viable than grouping.
I really appreciate all the kind words. I wrote that post out of way back in Feb 1st so I really didn't intend for its impact to carry over to FFXIV, but I guess it's still fairly relevant.
I do think that if done in the spirit of FFXI, FFXIV can/will come close to that same feeling of community just through different means. Making encounters extremely difficult and require multiple job switching (i.e.mulitple possible strategys) could offer a compelling gameplay experience and creating a world based on exploration and storyline would still foster a great community.
On the other hand, with no levels, we could just have a game full of mini-games with no worldly continuity. Given SE's track record, I waver on the side of optimism.
btw...
Generally it’s understood there are 3 current generations of MMO’ers…
1st – the MUD to pre-EQ:Shadows of Luclin, this includes those who began their career on OU and Asheron’s Call.
- 1995 -> late 2001
2nd- post EQ:Kunark to WoW. his includes those people who started their career with FFXI, DaoC, Shadowbane, Lineage 2, SWG and Ragnarok.
- 2002 -> late 2004
3rd – WoW through the present, and includes all games since. Though some contend this should be divided yet again into smaller, more focused groups.
- 2005 -> now
Currently Playing: GW2
Retired: Shadowbane, DAoC, WoW, FFXI, Eve Online, SWToR
The Aphelion MMO Blog - GW2 Initial Impressions
Disagree.
Pre-WoW, there was very little solobility. Why? Because that was the point of an MMO, to play with people.
There doesn't have to be a balance of PvE/PvP or Group/Solo. They've worked without them, and will continue to. Only reason to add them is to bring a wider audiance, but usually ends in failure because those play types don't work togther.
Kinda why there are dif genres, people like different things, and adding 2 things =a different thing.
@ Dom: That's what I thought about the 3 generations, was just unsure. Thanks
No worries CDCosta, it's not always completely obvious.
Currently Playing: GW2
Retired: Shadowbane, DAoC, WoW, FFXI, Eve Online, SWToR
The Aphelion MMO Blog - GW2 Initial Impressions