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Makers of DC online gets it, Cryptic does not
Yamota
Member UncommonPosts: 6,593
This post is not about bashing CO, I think it is a good game with alot of innovative features. However it lacks any kind of longetivity and Cryptic really hasnt got what Super Heroes are about.
Super Heroes are not like in your typical fantasy MMORPG where you do endless quests or grind mobs. Super Heroes is about fighting Super Villains and saving the world/city/whatever, that is why they are needed as regularly villains are handled by the regular authorities.
So as it says at the end of the interview of the DC comics creators truly show that they "get it". It goes something along like this:
Interviewer: Will there be epic battles between players playing Super Villains and Super Heroes?
Developer: Yes, definetely
Interviewer: Great, thats all people needed to know.
Cryptic needs to wise up and stop threating this game like just another MMORPG and realise that what fans of Super Heroes want is to battle their archnemesis the Super Villains and vice versa. Having an AI controlled Super Villain with inflated stats does not cut it.
This game NEEDS player controlled villains and it NEEDS to have a fun system where they duke it out over a city, world, whatever. That is what defines most Super Hero comics, not doing quests and killing mobs.
Comments
Two major problems with DCUO:
1) SOE
2) F2P
Really don't believe that SOE gets it, from their pass results. CO will grow and change with time. They appear to have the customers interest at heart. I expect that down the road there will be some type of player controlled villians to fight against.
P.S. > Heroes always have "Henchmen" to fight against as well as the super villians.
DCU will allow players to get "access" to more costume styles, looks and options as they level up. Somehow that tells me they do not understand designing a superhero mmo. It suggests to me they are letting the revenue model dictate the design of the game again.
The last thing I would want to do is grind 20 levels out, hope for a costume piece to drop off a super villian, cash shop or virtual loot card just to complete the desired look I have in mind for my character.
Freezerburn: Whats up with your goofy looking outfit?
The Fashionator: Wait until I reach level 30 and get the rest of my costume, it is going to look sweet then.
RockPaperScissors: Have you seen what it will look like at level 30 yet?
The Fashionator: Well ... Umm ...
I find it hard to get into any superhero mmo, your not a superhero if everyone in the world is a superhero aswell.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
Thats understandable, I wish they would make superheroes something you earn the ability to play, until then you only can play citizens who have jobs and duties to take care of, drive around in vehicles, go to and from work etc until you build up to a certain event that unlocks you a superhero to create and play, but with the ability to still play the normal character(s) and interact on that level with the world.
It would make being a superhero more rewarding and you wouldnt see 50 superheroes flying around at the same time constanty. If you saw a superhero as a citizen you would go "Hey, wow there goes underpants man!" Maybe a bit like Star Wars Galaxies Jedi system (when it was first introduced) you can be a police officer for instance, and will have to get to say level 50 or whatever, do this and that and etc and then this event occurs where you unlock the superhero character slot.
Thats understandable, I wish they would make superheroes something you earn the ability to play, until then you only can play citizens who have jobs and duties to take care of, drive around in vehicles, go to and from work etc
Yeah I play this game already. It's a popular game with almost 7 billion users called "Life." I play MMOs to escape from it.
Thats understandable, I wish they would make superheroes something you earn the ability to play, until then you only can play citizens who have jobs and duties to take care of, drive around in vehicles, go to and from work etc
Yeah I play this game already. It's a popular game with almost 7 billion users called "Life." I play MMOs to escape from it.
This could not be more true!
I am not sure that Sony gets it with DCUO but I am looking forward to it. CO is a great game and will get better with time so I am equally looking forward to watching its growth.
Also, you do feel heroic as there are tons of civies and soldiers to save from villians and minions alike. My Main character just got notified that the super villian he put away took control of the prison she was in. Now I have to go stop her. Sounds pretty heroic to me.
I very much miss the 'civil' identity in the hero games as well.
Almost all heroes and villains have an alternate ego that they switch to when 'off duty'. It's a very large part of the whole hero gimmick that all the games seem to miss out on.
I don't particularly want to grind out fifty levels as a paper pusher, but I do think that the choice to change into John Doe should be there. Half a comic book is about hiding who you really are from the villains so they can't get at you when you're licking your wounds, or celebrating Auntie May's birthday, or taking the kids to the circus, etc.
I completely agree with the 'What's the fun in wearing tights when everybody else are?' question. I know you have the option to just make a suit instead of a fancy costume, but I'd still rather have the option to switch between super-mode and ordinary mode. Would open up for a whole new range of objectives, too... Undercover work, spying, fetching milk in the local convenience store. Those are things that are really hard to do when you show up with a hammer the size of yourself, a winged helmet and cape.
"So I contend that the player stories will always be more powerful than the scripted stories that we try to tell the players."
- Will Wright
In that case you would be better off taking the MMO out. This is more of the design of a sinle player style game. As I don't think there would be a lot of people paying $15.00 a month to watch somebody else be a hero. Plus once the way to do it was found, everybody would be doing it to and wind up with what you have now.
In superhero MMOs my immersion is also broken just way too easily when people create really stupid or crappy looking heros or something offensive, clones or recreate real people.
lol @ ;OP, besides from obviously not playing a lot of CO (if at all) you are putting your money that SOE will deliver a hardcore PVP gameplay MMO? You obviously havent played many SOE games lately, DC Online MIGHT have player villans right off the bat, but the dynamics of world pvp will not be sandbox style.
CO, however, is made by Cryptic....and they have already shown what they can do with COH
I play all ghame
There are different degrees of Super Heroes. Not all Super Heroes are as powerful as Superman... some even dont have any super natural powers.
But I do get your point, people want to feel "super" when playing a super hero and it is hard to have that feeling if everyone have basically the same power. That is why the leveling curve for super hero games needs to be much steeper so few people actually reach that super heroeness of Superman but you can still have fun if you reach the super heroenesss of say Batman.
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I didnt say anything about sandbox PvP but rather that in DC Online the devs claim (ofcourse they could lie) that there definetely will be epic battles between villains and heroes (both being playable) and judging from their demo that seems to be the focus point of the game.
That is what Cryptic does not get, they have made both CoX (which I played for 6 months) and CO to play pretty much like a fantasy MMORPG but instead of elves, dwarves and quests, you have superheroes skins and missions.
They have added the nemesis system but it is an AI. How much enjoyment do you get from fighting a stat-inflated arch villain? Wouldnt one be better of playing a single player game if you enjoy that so much?
So no, Cryptic, inspite of having created CoX, does not seem to get it. The devs of DC online appear to since they focus their game as a Super Hero vs Super Villain matchup and that is the core of most Super Hero comics.
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grind quest is freaking boring. you do non stop and you cant even skip! this is typical generic mmo style of gameplay and i dont like it! how can people stand current mmorpg gameplay?
however what cuts the boring quest is the arena pvp. pretty fun. just do pvp all day. but if you want to unlock new skills.... gotta brace doing boring quest.
seems that alot of people is bashing dc universe descriminately just cause its by SOE. and just cause SOE ruin their star wars mmo.... i dont know how but sadly i never played it since im not a star wars fan.
well atleast champions is better than aion. aion is a true generic mmo of the #1 wow clone with eastern skin.
I totally relate & agree with the prior posters who mention the "civilian" or alter ego side of being a super-hero & it really is a huge part of being a superhero, or supervillian that gets completely ignored by the developers of the games made so far.
I think it would add a huge amount to the "Roleplaying" element of these games if it was done well & had as much effort & polish put into it & how it tied into the whole game.
Imagine having to take your date out for the evening & then have to find a way to delay/postpone the date to go take care of some emergency superstuff you need to get done.....it would add so much to the whole concept of being a super hero it is amazing how the devs have missed it.
I think that all the superhero games right now are far too focused on creating a "arcadey" experience, & while that's fun for a F2P type model because you'll be dropping in on a more casual basis for a quick fight or mission, if you want a good subscription model fleshing these titles out in this direction would add a huge amount of extra dimension to them, and open up more opportunities for Roleplay activities, crafting, jobs etc.
So far all the superhero games have been wasting the opportunity to provide a real heavyweight alternative to the medieval/magic fantasy genre imho.
*nod*
So far Super Hero MMORPGs are no real alternative to medieval/magic fantasy MMORPGs as they fundamentally are the same. The only major difference are the extensive travel powers and the super hero "skins". The rest, questing, leveling, aquiring new skills is virtually the same.
What the MMORPG is in desperate need of is INNOVATION. Not rehashing the same old concept over and over in hope of squezing out some extra bucks. But then again ever since MMORPGS became a multimillion dollar industry, all the visionaries got thrown out of the window and the beancounters entered the scene. So instead of saying: How can we make a good game that gives a new experience to gamers, they are saying: How can we make a profitable game.
And sadly, these days, a profitable game seem to be to take the basic elements of WoW (casual game play, questing and themeparks) and rehashing them over and over again. Sad really.
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Thats understandable, I wish they would make superheroes something you earn the ability to play, until then you only can play citizens who have jobs and duties to take care of, drive around in vehicles, go to and from work etc
Yeah I play this game already. It's a popular game with almost 7 billion users called "Life." I play MMOs to escape from it.
That's just the best.
The arch enemy system in champions seems to do what you are complaining about, but you seem to be concerned that it is computer controlled? The concept sounds pretty sweet.
What exactly is DCU doing that is going to be different?
From what I have seen about dcu, there will be heroes and villains who each have their own quest lines to follow. There might be some open pvp if the two cross each others path (and are on the appropriate pvp type server). I would guess there are going to be arenas and instanced pvp zones.
Is there some super heroe vs super villian system that I have not seen from DCU yet? Do hero players have to form up into teams to combat the actions of villain teams? Contested areas or something?
Honestly, from what I have seen of DCU so far, it feels more like the players get to play sidekick to the more famous DC characters. It always seems like the players get to sidekick with superman or some other major character as they finish some mission they are on.
The arch enemy system in champions seems to do what you are complaining about, but you seem to be concerned that it is computer controlled? The concept sounds pretty sweet.
What exactly is DCU doing that is going to be different?
From what I have seen about dcu, there will be heroes and villains who each have their own quest lines to follow. There might be some open pvp if the two cross each others path (and are on the appropriate pvp type server). I would guess there are going to be arenas and instanced pvp zones.
Is there some super heroe vs super villian system that I have not seen from DCU yet? Do hero players have to form up into teams to combat the actions of villain teams? Contested areas or something?
Honestly, from what I have seen of DCU so far, it feels more like the players get to play sidekick to the more famous DC characters. It always seems like the players get to sidekick with superman or some other major character as they finish some mission they are on.
I just don't know that much about DCUO to really say much other then it will come down to 2 things really. 1) Combat and 2) Content.
Those are the 2 things that CO did, or didn't do right depending on who you talk to. Personally I think COs combat is all too wrong, its faulty and boring over any extended period of time, and the hero on hero PvP content is another mistake on cryptics end. The nemesis system is great, but theres too little of it, the content is too spread apart to be engrossing.
So far we have 2 Super Hero MMOs out there and both of them are by cryptic...... I'm looking forward to seeing what another company can bring to the table..... if nothing else it will expand the genre and bring in a different perspective.
If you don't like this game because its SOE I can understand that, if you don't like it because its F2P I guess I can understand that too (although it may be more of a guild wars model, not sure) but in any true gamers opinion those are really not the right reasons to dislike a game.
Ehh... no.
Now, my examples are only from Marvel, which I enjoy a lot more than DC. However, it still proves that not all super heroes have a secret, "civil" identity as you claim they do.
<aimed at highlighted portions>
You really need to do some actual research before you post. $OE has done far more than just destroying SWG, to piss off their player-base. And, they're well known for revamping their games' core rules when it suits them. Let me recap the wrongdoings of $OE for you:
There's more, but I think this sums up the evils of $OE pretty well.
The arch enemy system in champions seems to do what you are complaining about, but you seem to be concerned that it is computer controlled? The concept sounds pretty sweet.
What exactly is DCU doing that is going to be different?
From what I have seen about dcu, there will be heroes and villains who each have their own quest lines to follow. There might be some open pvp if the two cross each others path (and are on the appropriate pvp type server). I would guess there are going to be arenas and instanced pvp zones.
Is there some super heroe vs super villian system that I have not seen from DCU yet? Do hero players have to form up into teams to combat the actions of villain teams? Contested areas or something?
Honestly, from what I have seen of DCU so far, it feels more like the players get to play sidekick to the more famous DC characters. It always seems like the players get to sidekick with superman or some other major character as they finish some mission they are on.
I just don't know that much about DCUO to really say much other then it will come down to 2 things really. 1) Combat and 2) Content.
Those are the 2 things that CO did, or didn't do right depending on who you talk to. Personally I think COs combat is all too wrong, its faulty and boring over any extended period of time, and the hero on hero PvP content is another mistake on cryptics end. The nemesis system is great, but theres too little of it, the content is too spread apart to be engrossing.
So far we have 2 Super Hero MMOs out there and both of them are by cryptic...... I'm looking forward to seeing what another company can bring to the table..... if nothing else it will expand the genre and bring in a different perspective.
If you don't like this game because its SOE I can understand that, if you don't like it because its F2P I guess I can understand that too (although it may be more of a guild wars model, not sure) but in any true gamers opinion those are really not the right reasons to dislike a game.
Actually... that's an opinion. Many gamers boycott any game made by $OE... and with good reason too. Look at my previous post for their transgressions. It's legitimate complaint to dislike a company for their past actions. In fact, everyone should actually take a gander at any company's past transgressions before they decide to play it... especially when it comes to MMORPGS as they are both a time and further monetary investment.
However, to hate the game just because of the company making it is not a valid excuse to hate a game. Hating the company is alright, but hating the game because of the company is not. Yet, boycotting that game is valid, so long as the person boycotting it does not bash the game itself. But, bashing the company is acceptable.
Anyways, how do you truthfully define "true gamers"?
I am mildly optimistic about DCU. But I guess we have to see.
The arch enemy system in champions seems to do what you are complaining about, but you seem to be concerned that it is computer controlled? The concept sounds pretty sweet.
What exactly is DCU doing that is going to be different?
From what I have seen about dcu, there will be heroes and villains who each have their own quest lines to follow. There might be some open pvp if the two cross each others path (and are on the appropriate pvp type server). I would guess there are going to be arenas and instanced pvp zones.
Is there some super heroe vs super villian system that I have not seen from DCU yet? Do hero players have to form up into teams to combat the actions of villain teams? Contested areas or something?
Honestly, from what I have seen of DCU so far, it feels more like the players get to play sidekick to the more famous DC characters. It always seems like the players get to sidekick with superman or some other major character as they finish some mission they are on.
I just don't know that much about DCUO to really say much other then it will come down to 2 things really. 1) Combat and 2) Content.
Those are the 2 things that CO did, or didn't do right depending on who you talk to. Personally I think COs combat is all too wrong, its faulty and boring over any extended period of time, and the hero on hero PvP content is another mistake on cryptics end. The nemesis system is great, but theres too little of it, the content is too spread apart to be engrossing.
So far we have 2 Super Hero MMOs out there and both of them are by cryptic...... I'm looking forward to seeing what another company can bring to the table..... if nothing else it will expand the genre and bring in a different perspective.
If you don't like this game because its SOE I can understand that, if you don't like it because its F2P I guess I can understand that too (although it may be more of a guild wars model, not sure) but in any true gamers opinion those are really not the right reasons to dislike a game.
Actually... that's an opinion. Many gamers boycott any game made by $OE... and with good reason too. Look at my previous post for their transgressions. It's legitimate complaint to dislike a company for their past actions. In fact, everyone should actually take a gander at any company's past transgressions before they decide to play it... especially when it comes to MMORPGS as they are both a time and further monetary investment.
However, to hate the game just because of the company making it is not a valid excuse to hate a game. Hating the company is alright, but hating the game because of the company is not. Yet, boycotting that game is valid, so long as the person boycotting it does not bash the game itself. But, bashing the company is acceptable.
Anyways, how do you truthfully define "true gamers"?
I knew that would strike a cord with a number of people when I wrote it, and god willing. I'm very tired of this MMO crowd in particular thinking that they are taking a "stand" against these companies that run their games the way they do. I was hurt by the NGE too, and I've been somewhat weary of SOEs business practices since, but thats not to say they can't put out a quality product. Listen, if you don't like the company, don't like the company... if you don't like the payment model don't like the payment model... but that has no bearing on the actual game itself. In my opinion, a true gamer is someone that transcends a particular genre, system, or stereotype and is willing to play anything once without passing judgment on "the unknown". I would much rather someone say they don't like the game based on the IP or genre then the company that makes it or the payment model. (eventhought I disagree with MT payment models its never actually stopped me from playing a game I was interested in)
So many on this site make rash generalizations about certain games or genres but rarely have the stones to try the game, and instead rationalize why they won't/ The only reason I talk about Champions the way I do is because I have played it.
I'll wind down the rant now, but yes, to me if you say "This game will suck because its SOE and its F2P" then to me, you aren't a real gamer. Just about any other reason regarding the play style of the game I would understand. SO yes, please, dis the company, not the game.
I like the approach to world and involvement suggested by DCUO, I also like the way its heroes vs Villain which is really as it should be, rather than heroes vs bland herds of critters...... imo SoE are saying the right things and the devs appear to know what makes a comic book come alive, but it remains a case of; can they implement it effectively......
atm the only thing I think I am certain of is that Cryptic, at least as they exist today, do not have any understanding or show any real love for comicbooks or superheroes.
so essentially he is saying there is pvp in the game. the 'epic' part, well we have to wait and judge that for ourselves, but somehow i doubt the individual battle between xbattmanx and the jokester will habe any game-world changing consequence.