Okay community. Here me out please... I love playing this game, there i have said it. okay, this isnt a flame of the game itself. but of the handling of the launch by NCSOFT where by developers even here have said they will only release a handful of servers knowing full well they have over sold SPACE on the servers. Thus we have queues. but alas, since friday the queues have gotten so bad we now get automatically kicked out of the launcher saying they have no ROOM for anyone else! Hangon, isnt this game on sale in shops in the EU since Friday? surely they havent sold 1million copies by now? oh breaking news, servers for EU have a rumoured capactity of 5,000 each. so thats 50,000 that can play at once. Yet isnt there reports of subs in 400k ++ ?? Now in my view, NCSOFT with a legal battle (out there) sold this game fraudulently to raise CASH fast? Well Trading standards here in the UK will be getting a lot more calls from the UK community over the next week as thousands of players cant even log in to create a character! IF you live in the EU, and not bought this game DO NOT BUY IT YET! THIS is what players RECIEVE now http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9864/aion0006a.jpg
Its only fraud if you cant play on ANY server on ANY side and even then it would be hard to hit them with it as in their ToS they make no promises on uptime.
That being said, in the NA launch there are 2 servers with 0 queues, everyone keeps trying to get onto the busy servers with queues. If its like that in EU then its not NCsofts fault, its people being to stubborn to play on the less crowded servers.
If you get on the highway, and there is a traffic jam, do you sit in it and scream at the traffic or do you hop on a side street that has no traffic? If you have the option, most sane people will take the side street.
NCsoft has provided side streets, people just want to drive on the highway, and due to that they will have to wait.
While one could easily blame NCSoft for poor planning or arguably even questionable ethics in their failure to provide adequate server support for the number of boxes/subs they are selling, legally speaking, their completely in the clear for the simple reason that pretty much every video game with any online component whatsoever writes their licence agreements to specifically affirm that access is not garaunteed. Therefore for legal purposes, you agree when you subscribe that the company is no way liable for failing to provide you access. And this is yet another example of how foolishly inserting meaningless talk of legal action into an arguement (that's otherwise valid) is good way to not be taken seriously.
I commented on this very subject in a FFXIV post.
Devs may be getting away with a total bs TOS they FORCE you to sign,but the days are coming when they won't.It will only take a handful of half ass lawyers to point out ,you cannot FORCE someone to sign something they have not seen yet.Yes they are FORCING you because the INTENT was for you to play after the purchase ,not to press no to the TOS lol.
It is basically like saying car manufacturers can force you to sign a waiver that anything and everything that happens to the car is your fault not theirs.Cars are respected more amongst the community because even the judges and lawyers drive cars,so the law has a firm grip on that industry.The time is coming however,eventually there will be MANY laws prohibiting what a developer can print in their TOS and FORCE you to sign.
IMO yes NCSOFT sold the game fraudulently.The reason is because you cannot sell someone a move pass,then there is no movie.You cannot sell someone gas that is water and will not run your car,ect ect,you cannot sell a game that someone cannot play.
1 You purchase a subscription,a service,the service was NOT provided,they owe you.
2 you purchased the game,with full intent to PLAY the game,no law anywhere should deem it that you made a purchase for the sole reason to own a cardboard box and a useless CD.In essence if you cannot play the product, does not work.It would be like the car lot sells you a car,sure it "CAN" work,but without the keys ,it's useless.
Yeah you would think it's this way, but usually in an MMO's terms of service they say if servers are down or go out, that's just tough shit for you.
just wanted to say that at least in some eu countries these eula and tos have no legal base since you don't have to sign them before buying the game. cause of this i also have to sign the extra license clauses for microsoft student licenses before buying the license. so as far as i know you would have a good chance for legal action in these countries.
Fraud as a statute is covered under provissions of criminal law and defendants are therefore guaranteed due process in conditions far different than what they would encounter in a civil lawsuit. Good luck trying to prove Mens Rea with servers up and running. And btw, corporations are incapable of comitting fraud, you can't jail the defendant "NCsoft" and acussing any of their boardroom members or employees of comitting a crime without proof is called a libel and exposes you to prosecution.
I am a lawyer, stop discussing concepts you really are clueless about... If you want a refund read the terms on your sales contract (technically you haven't paid a subscription yet) and see what provissions in your country's law apply. Simple and straightforward as that. I'm pretty sure the day is coming some ambulance chaser will try to claim nerdraging as emotional distress (and we'll all suffer for it with higher subscription costs and stiffer ToS agreements) but unless you want to wrongfully collect damages through frivolous litigation pretty much a refund is all you can ask for.
Seriously this is about as dumb a thread as i've ever read...
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
5000 per channel they got 12 channel i think 60000 per server freaking hell what are you guys doing in europe gees eating the whole freaking game thew way it goes they would need 2 server for each langage just to get the line up in we dont have that in america yet theres always a server with space
good thing for you all American servers are english while only 5 are english in the EU. every server including foreign language ones are so full there is no queue, u just get a message saying server is full. Wow had these problems at release also and lets face it, aion is the biggest release since wow.
You'd think after the Tabula Rasa flop NCsoft would be more proactive about keeping customers happy? *shrug* Meh, just further enforces why I decided to wait 6 months after a MMO's release before I buy/play. Last games I bought were Hellgate:London and Tabula Rasa and with the demise of those I've been hesitant to vote with my dollar towards another game since. I figure, if in 6 months it's in the bargain bin for $19.99 then in another 6 months being shut down due to "lack of subs" it wasn't meant to be.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Comments
Its only fraud if you cant play on ANY server on ANY side and even then it would be hard to hit them with it as in their ToS they make no promises on uptime.
That being said, in the NA launch there are 2 servers with 0 queues, everyone keeps trying to get onto the busy servers with queues. If its like that in EU then its not NCsofts fault, its people being to stubborn to play on the less crowded servers.
If you get on the highway, and there is a traffic jam, do you sit in it and scream at the traffic or do you hop on a side street that has no traffic? If you have the option, most sane people will take the side street.
NCsoft has provided side streets, people just want to drive on the highway, and due to that they will have to wait.
I commented on this very subject in a FFXIV post.
Devs may be getting away with a total bs TOS they FORCE you to sign,but the days are coming when they won't.It will only take a handful of half ass lawyers to point out ,you cannot FORCE someone to sign something they have not seen yet.Yes they are FORCING you because the INTENT was for you to play after the purchase ,not to press no to the TOS lol.
It is basically like saying car manufacturers can force you to sign a waiver that anything and everything that happens to the car is your fault not theirs.Cars are respected more amongst the community because even the judges and lawyers drive cars,so the law has a firm grip on that industry.The time is coming however,eventually there will be MANY laws prohibiting what a developer can print in their TOS and FORCE you to sign.
IMO yes NCSOFT sold the game fraudulently.The reason is because you cannot sell someone a move pass,then there is no movie.You cannot sell someone gas that is water and will not run your car,ect ect,you cannot sell a game that someone cannot play.
1 You purchase a subscription,a service,the service was NOT provided,they owe you.
2 you purchased the game,with full intent to PLAY the game,no law anywhere should deem it that you made a purchase for the sole reason to own a cardboard box and a useless CD.In essence if you cannot play the product, does not work.It would be like the car lot sells you a car,sure it "CAN" work,but without the keys ,it's useless.
Yeah you would think it's this way, but usually in an MMO's terms of service they say if servers are down or go out, that's just tough shit for you.
just wanted to say that at least in some eu countries these eula and tos have no legal base since you don't have to sign them before buying the game.
cause of this i also have to sign the extra license clauses for microsoft student licenses before buying the license.
so as far as i know you would have a good chance for legal action in these countries.
Fraud as a statute is covered under provissions of criminal law and defendants are therefore guaranteed due process in conditions far different than what they would encounter in a civil lawsuit. Good luck trying to prove Mens Rea with servers up and running. And btw, corporations are incapable of comitting fraud, you can't jail the defendant "NCsoft" and acussing any of their boardroom members or employees of comitting a crime without proof is called a libel and exposes you to prosecution.
I am a lawyer, stop discussing concepts you really are clueless about... If you want a refund read the terms on your sales contract (technically you haven't paid a subscription yet) and see what provissions in your country's law apply. Simple and straightforward as that. I'm pretty sure the day is coming some ambulance chaser will try to claim nerdraging as emotional distress (and we'll all suffer for it with higher subscription costs and stiffer ToS agreements) but unless you want to wrongfully collect damages through frivolous litigation pretty much a refund is all you can ask for.
Seriously this is about as dumb a thread as i've ever read...
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
good thing for you all American servers are english while only 5 are english in the EU. every server including foreign language ones are so full there is no queue, u just get a message saying server is full. Wow had these problems at release also and lets face it, aion is the biggest release since wow.
You'd think after the Tabula Rasa flop NCsoft would be more proactive about keeping customers happy? *shrug* Meh, just further enforces why I decided to wait 6 months after a MMO's release before I buy/play. Last games I bought were Hellgate:London and Tabula Rasa and with the demise of those I've been hesitant to vote with my dollar towards another game since. I figure, if in 6 months it's in the bargain bin for $19.99 then in another 6 months being shut down due to "lack of subs" it wasn't meant to be.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."