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Why do people call Aion 'Grind Fest'...please provide numbers.
mmofan2112
Member Posts: 38
There have been many that say Aion is a 'grind fest'. I am not positive what that means. All mmo's (except EVE) are get quest, kill mobs, turn in quest...repeat, till max level. Why is Aion different then this?
Here is my guess by what is meant, but I could be wrong. Does grinding give more XP then quest? In WoW, you need to kill 20-25 mobs to equal average quest reward XP bonus. So, if WoW quest says kill 10 mobs for 1000 XP, you could grind 25 of the mobs for the same XP instead of doing quest. So, you need to see if the time to walk to the NPC, etc is worth it.
Is that what is meant by 'grind fest'? You get more XP by simply grinding same level as you (more or less) mobs, then taking the time to run to and fro from the NPC?
What it can not mean is there are not enough quest, that you must kill random mobs...at least not from what my L22 friend tells me. His quest log is bulging.
Thank you.
Comments
Most of the quests are the same boring, go kill 20 wolves get their pelts, take those pelts to NPC. He ll make some shirts out of them, take them to NPC and so on and so on. That to me is a grind and Aion has plenty of that.
I wouldn't worry to much about it just kill mobs on your way to the quest spots and back... instead of avoiding everything just to finish the quests and you should be fine... PvP in later level while you quest it's not really going to be a grind if you don't make it one... If you don't like PvP theres still places you can go that are PvP free to get exp and quest.
I have tried leveling both ways. Completing quests appears to be more efficient. I think the leveling curve in Aion is a bit more extreme than some people are used to and they are mis-using "grind fest" to mean you have to complete more quests and kills to gain a level.
If you compare time from start to finish level 0 to 50 in Aion, to 0-80 in Wow..it is probably pretty close though you are not acheiving levels as often.
What Aion is lacking are the mini games introduced in the expansions of WOW recently.
Like fly and do bombardment runs...
Go spy on a zone and look back in history what happened to that place (phasing locally).
Have daily world PvP quests, or just level through PvP when you are in the mood.
Go underwater and find some lost treasures.
Shoot rockets on a village.
Destroy buildings in real time.
Do quests and see the world change when you conquer base on base in higher zones.(phasing world changes).
All the above give experience and mostly are not even about "killing monsters".
See the difference already ?
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
The thing is that 90% of the players dont bother to read the quests and the game doesnt encourage you to read them.
Their are major quests that actually are logical if u read them .I am level 15 and the story line for pollution or dukaki are well written.
A npc reports to check out polluted birds/pigs , u collect them he tells u to seek a geolgist in the field, the geogolist tells u to find the npc who is near the source of pollution makes sense so fr , u find him he tell u collect the sample then he refers u back to geologist who tells u that he needs a book from citadel which talsk about antidote for teh pollution.
Agreed their are quite a random quest that are collect this and that but whne u do those u find locations to harvest etc.
The reason people dont read it because the game offers a gps map , just click the quest , find tha location and thats it then why would the players bother to read it
Worse players can link location in chat , the chat is filled with wher is ancient cube, where is poppy , where is supplies etc no one bothers to read and understand they are very easy to find locations
Also, some of those Wow quests did have some fun in them, that's for sure. However, you still had to grind killing assloads of mobs and gather their pelts, ribs, skin, etc., in-between those few quests that were unique.
BOOYAKA!
Also, some of those Wow quests did have some fun in them, that's for sure. However, you still had to grind killing assloads of mobs and gather their pelts, ribs, skin, etc., in-between those few quests that were unique.
Correct for the recently part (in TBC and even much more in Wotlk). That's why CAT is interesting as it will push the new style of quests throughout level 1 to 60 also.
I would think the new style quests with Wow mini games take up around 15-20% of the total quests. But you already reach max level by doing only a portion of the total quests given. So you have a choice.
Add the PvP option and experience gains in PvP and you have a good bundle of complete variable kind of quests/options with the newest phasing mechanics.
The variety of choices makes the leveling process in WotLK almost complete grind free for .... leveling purposes. Not talking about the faction reputations in which you choose to go with for various reasons. But that's end game options.
This shows Aion is from a design point for (quest) grinding around 4 years older than present day WOW.
I think this answers the question of the OP, as a lot of Aion players are also WOW players who happen to see these mini games and so feel the Aoin "grind" in leveling much more than players who didn't experience WOW post 2.0.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
I don't know, I felt the grind in all of wow including wolk. Sure mini games are different but they are still the same if your stuck doing them everyday over and over again, just a different grind.
I'm not knocking WoW, but their game has been around for years. Like a previous poster stated it is alot easier for them to develop newer content then these newer MMO's.
Bottom line however, the grind is going to be there when your elveling up. The real grind concerns should be at the end game. WoW still his a huge grind at end game and thats where yoyu will be spending most of your time in a game.
Well, since any quest that has you kill "X" number of mobs is a form of grinding. I call it, "Grinding with a purpose."
Therefore, Aion has grinding in it. Every MMO I have played does. Is it the most grind heavy? Not really, for I ground out level in WoW more by simple virtue it took longer to level in WoW.
Compared to the asian grinders, Aion is a walk in the park, but yes it has grinding.
Most if not all(not considering me) MMORPG players consider Asian mmos to be "Grind Fests".
They will always back up the claims with facts like:
It feels like eternity to level up.
I have to kill millions of monsters to level up.
I can't be max level in 2 weeks.
I have to kill to many mobs, all copies with different colors and names.
Quests are all the same, a grind to collect X or Y item.
More or less the same "facts" will be given. I think this is some sort of envious reaction most of them have.
American or Western mmos have the same quest types as Asian or Oriental mmos.
Western MMos make you kill millions of mobs to level up, the same as Oriental mmos.
Westerners you can't be max level in 2 weeks, it takes time and is done the same way as Orientals, killing mobs repeatedly.
I dont really consider any mmo a grind, I see them all the same. I wish some introduced some innovative type of new quest. Be it Oriental or Western.
Credit goes to rzr22 of AionSource
" The Grind: Getting Closer to the Truth
So I am reading topic after topic about the grind. I am reading opinion after opinion, name calling after name calling, but no data. So, because I live on data and not opinions or personal, but not proven, experiences, I decided to do a little research myself.
Because I have personally experienced 20-24 as Asmodian and found myself having to grind quit a bit of XP (only gaining about half a level each level before being forced to grind), I decided to use this as my research base. This is in direct response to claims of leveling to upwards of 30+ without having to mob grind. My opinion on grinding or questing does not matter. Only trying to see if these claims are feasible matters.
Things this research assumes:
- You are Asmodian
- Quests start in Morheim
- Includes lvl 20 Stigma quest
- Assumes you do quests at a max of two levels above you (level 19-25 quests are present)
This rule was changed due to a fallacy in including level 25 quests when the original rule was one.
- AionArmory quest lists are correct and complete
- Quests are from Morheim and Brusthonin
- Kills/Craft/Gather/PvP XP is not included
- Level 25 required and/or Abyss access required quests not included
If you see any flaw in my calculations or information, respectfully point them out. I am after the truth, not an opinion. I will do my best to correct them.
My quest list (Name followed by XP reward):
Campaign
20
No Escaping Destiny 100000
23
Petrifying Elim 145000
25
Guardian Spirit 213000
Pandemonium
20
Ingredients for Dye 25000
Peace Offering 18400
You Never Call, You Never write 2870
21
A Feast for a Son 2050
Flowers for the Banquet 7350
Last Minute Worries 5630
Love at First Sight 20500
Preparing the Banquet 27500
Secret Library Access 15000
22
Fascinating Gift 3000
Just Dye, Already 37400
Note: Some may question why I left out several level 25 quests. These quests are the "The ___ Gone Astray" and "____'s Recommendation" quests. This is because the gone astray quests require abyss access, thus level 25, not 24. I believe the recommendation quests are the quests you receive from your trainer at 25, again, a 25 only quest.
Morheim
19
Teleporter Troubles 24000
20
Brining up Tayga 30000
Firewood for Cooking 18000
Frenai's Lost Jewelry 42000
Keindor's Message 60000
Morheim Commander's Call 10000
Titanium Tribute 24000
[Spy] Liquor that Makes you Vanish 80000
21
Active Discouragement 42400
Bolverk's Secret Request 12300
Daeva, Where's my Herb? 30000
Fragments of Aion's Tower 5000
Irresitible Soup 42100
Orders from the Fortress 31500
Orders for Randet 8950
Outfighting Arachnas 21050
Secret Information 15000
[Coin] Foes of the Fortress 16800
22
A Sorrowful Message 21300
Disease Carriers 38400
Keeping Warm 29000
Kellan's Request 27000
Reaching Out 10500
The Claw of the Tayga 42600
Vivi's Book 59400
23
Good Tools After Bad 28000
Greetings to an Alchemist 10000
Hungry Philosopher 31000
Lif's Agony 28000
Roast Gadill for a Friend 20000
Sora's Energy Booster 32000
Sprigg Nightlights 34000
Strange Mushrooms 78350
Slyphen Pollution 9800
The Flower of Wisdom 28000
[Spy] Elim of Elysea 98000
[Spy] There and Back Again 90000
24
A Seafood Feast 50000
Recovering Research Material 26000
Restarting the Research 30800
Scouting the Lab 42100
The Absolutely Essential Book 56700
The Spirit's Notebook 52200
Why the Fish Aren't Biting 50000
[Coin] *** Spriggs in the Bud 24000
25
A new Recipe 117000
A Ribbit Out of Water 72000
An Unfinished Mystery 40500
Meaty Treats 45000
Ravenous Philosopher 60800
The Sodden Scroll 60800
Three Treasures 71900
Vivi's Secret Request 34000
Brusthonin
21
Check on the Settlers 3680
Samples for Investigation 12000
The Fields are Infested 29100
Scarecrow's Request 32100
The Seeds of Hope 33000
23
Clearing the Fields 36000
Frightcorn-ucopia 12000
If only Had a Master 30000
Plague-Spreading Porgus 17000
Pollution Solution 7400
24
An Old Settler's Letter 42000
Everyone Has a Secret 70000
Obstacle to Cultivation 20000
Scared of Undeads 70000
Troublesome Promise 30000
[Group] The Lingering Ghost 38400
25
Parica's Special Order 55000
The Elyos of Brusthonin 108100
The Ikelus Manhunt 19100
The Missing Laborers 48900
Information Broken Down
NOTE: Red = updated values.
Level 19 Quest XP Total: 24,000
Level 20 Quest XP Total: 410,270
Level 21 Quest XP Total: 413,010
Level 22 Quest XP Total: 268,600
Level 23 Quest XP Total: 734,550
Level 24 Quest XP Total: 602,200
Level 25 Quest XP Total: 754,400
Grand Total: 3,207,030
Experience to Level
Note: This was confirmed from random tells and 2-3 people providing exactly the same numbers.
Level 20: 1,000,147
Level 21: 1,295,094
Level 22: 1,609,877
Level 23: 2,001,924
Grand Total: 5,907,042
XP from Kills/Craft/Gathering/PvP required to get level 24 (assuming all previous quests are complete): 2,700,012
This is as far as I go in terms of data. The rest can be discussed in this topic. I would start with discussing whether or not 2.7 million XP is feasible within a 4 level period from Kills/Craft/Gather/PvP.
I would also discuss the quest XP spread in each level. Some levels have noticeably less XP (i.e. level 22) and whether or not t his is balanced.
Lastly, I would not like this to turn into a Quest versus Grind topic. There are many other topics concerning this. Post in them."
Playing - FFXIV, ESO
Played - FFXI, WoW, Lineage 2, Guild Wars, Aion, SWToR, LotRO, GW2, TERA, Rift, ArcheAge, TSW
I only played like to level 8 in beta and pretty much all quests were about kill some of these and some of these. I say pretty much, because there were whopping two quests where in one I had to click on whine barrels and the other to click on sacks of corn or something the like. The pattern of the kill quests went always like this: kill minor rat, kill medium rat, kill major rat, kill minor bird, … . It is really no surprise that some people may perceive this as a «grind fest».
Do have other games kill quests, too? Yes, they do. Are said «other» games pretty much all about kill ten rats? Nope, I don't think so.
I don't agree. Wotlk is very much younger than Aion in age when questing is concerned.
Choices of play clearly limit the grind feeling.
If you don't see the obvious difference in variable quest choices (even PvP experience gains) between the two games at this very moment ....you're simply in the honeymoon period of one game. Discussion is useless unless you come out of the honeymoon.
WotlK has not been around "for years". It is even younger than Aion.....
In fact 3.X shows the current state of quest driven games. You level effort less in choices you want to make (pve/pvp/minigames/dungeons).
People do compare the newer kind of quests and the traditional old kind of leveling. And that's why "people do call "Aion Grind Fest" the OP is talking about. At least if they witnessed Wotlk.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
The fact of the matter is that the game is grindy, but no more grindy than anything else out there (name one).
There is a decent quest to level to map area ratio going on, but not anywhere the same amount of quests you see in American games. The quest XP is less, but in general the mobs give more - so you are getting more XP from the task and not the reward - which in turn helps manage the gaps between quest content. The reall issue is that people think they are wise for noticing, but are evidently morons for never considering anything in the past 10 years of MMOs a grind. Welcome to the new one, liek it or go back to UO, EQ1 or WoW - that is the choice (I uses these examples as one of them is likely your first MMO that you base the rest off of).
I for one am waiting to see the PvP element before making up my mind. The PvE in MMO's [SUCKS] to begin with if its not a raid boss with scripted phases.
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Maybe it's just me, but if I get a quest to...say...kill 10 teddybear things in Aion, that's fine, because I know I have to kill 10, and then I'm done with that. Then I'll go off and kill 15 anteater-armadillo things. Fine, great. "Grinding", to me, is when I've exhausted all the available quests in an area, and I still have a chunk of XP I need to gain, so I have to run around pointlessly killing critters for an indeterminate amount of time. That's what people seem to be bitching about. Yes, technically killing mobs for a quest is the same thing, but at least there is a definite amount that must be killed, not just mindlessly killing everything in a certain area.
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