I bought gold once, and I didn't (and still don't) feel the least bit bad about it. I know it means the terrorists win, but I'd much rather be out money equivalent to 0.5 hours of work instead of spending 20 hours of my free time. I already despise the fact that I have to grind RL cash, so why should I waste my time grinding fake money too?
So, to sum up, you didn't enjoy playing the game, so you paid someone else to play it for you. Good for you.
Perhaps if money-grinding was at the core of the MMO experience, I would consider your idiotic leap of logic a success, but it isn't. It's just another time sink. I'm sorry you feel threatened by the fact that I have a job and don't have time to run around in circles killing the same mob hundreds of times day and night just to be able to afford basic shit. That just isn't fun for me, and I'd rather spend my FREE TIME (HINT HINT NOT AT MY JOB) having FUN instead of playing an aspect of a game that's really more of a job than a game.
I dont have time to get the uber gear, poor me, i will cheat and get it instead. That will show them.
@gramps: Yep, basically. Congratulations on paying a game company for the privilege of performing slave labor.
Edit: Oh, and while I'm at it, I'm gonna go to the grocery store and CHEAT by buying food instead of growing and slaughtering it myself, and then I'm going to go to the mall and CHEAT by buying clothing instead of sewing it myself. Shit, I'm even on a laptop right now that I got by CHEATING by not hand-manufacturing myself. Wake up, folks. Money-grinding does not belong in gaming. Don't blame the buyers and sellers--blame the game designers.
@gramps: Yep, basically. Congratulations on paying a game company for the privilege of performing slave labor.
Edit: Oh, and while I'm at it, I'm gonna go to the grocery store and CHEAT by buying food instead of growing and slaughtering it myself, and then I'm going to go to the mall and CHEAT by buying clothing instead of sewing it myself. Shit, I'm even on a laptop right now that I got by CHEATING by not hand-manufacturing myself. Wake up, folks. Money-grinding does not belong in gaming. Don't blame the buyers and sellers--blame the game designers.
No, i blame the cheaters. If you do not know whats involved with playing an MMO maybe you should do some research. And if you dont have time to invest in playing the game the way it was meant to be played maybe you should find something to do you can take pride in, instead of trying to justify cheating to those of us that know the difference.
I will certainly do more research into this "Emm Emm Oh" thing. I've only been playing them for 10 years, so I guess that still makes me kind of a noob. In my mind, you create your own gaming experience. If all you care about is your items, then you deserve to have your experience ruined by someone taking a shortcut. While you're busy crying about gold buyers, I'm enjoying the game how I want to enjoy it: exploring the world and chatting with friends. Looks like the cheaters win! Later, gramps!
Really what's with the "i have a job" excuse, you think spending time on a desk entitles you to anything? People who don't have jobs are working on their education wich is just as valuable, and they have families too. I have a job, and a life as well, I go out with my friends 2-3 nights a week (yea, we drink, and i get wasted) sometimes more. I'm dating the coolest woman you could ever hope to meet (still trying to make her curious about MMOs) i work out every morning, i still try to make time to play the guitar, i'm reading a couple of books and i do follow the news and football matches (i will put MMOs on hold during the world cup). I live in a city where traffic makes it a nightmare to go anywhere... It sometimes feels like a dog's life but i even make time to post on forums (granted, that's mostly time i should be working) and yea, there are weeks i have to give up on some things because all this "multitasking" can drive you crazy. I'm willing to bet most people playing MMOs have to juggle as many things and that i'm far from exceptional.
Just cause some of you may be pencil pushers doesn't give you a right to cheat, go play f2p games if you want money to give you an advantage. And btw, "i have a job" people, i am a lawyer... So don't come to me with sillly arguments about virtual property because all you have in legal terms is a contract with a service provider. Legaleese aside the purpose of said contract is playing a game, and bottomline is no judge or jury in the world will ever accept the argument that you can break a game's rules (to which you did consent) because you feel entitled to someone else's intelectual property. ToS allows a company to permaban you if they catch you and they should. Technically is not just cheating but breach of contract and that means no liability on their part.
I tried not to make it about morals and even admitted to breaking the law in my youth. But what you're trying to justify just comes down to disrespect for fair play. It's like doping in sports except on a much more pathetic level. Why don't you try doing it in Vegas? I'm sure they'll let you off the hook cuz you're pressed for time and can't spend a couple of months in a casino. Oh, but it's easy over the internet and you can get away with it... You're cheats. Anything you may claim to have acomplished in a game it's a lie. You really are the worst kind of noob.
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Gramps, I'm going to break it down for you so that you'll understand.
First of all, unless you've found a potion of everlasting life, Time = Money.
Now, lets say I want to buy some "Basic Shit" (BS) that I deem is necessary for me to enjoy the game as it has been presented to me. This BS costs 200 gold.
I can either
a) farm 10 hours at 20 gold/hour
b) buy 200 gold for 10 bucks
In Real Life (AKA where the Sun is), lets pretend that I can make 10 bucks in about half an hour.
WHY OH WHY should I spend 10 hours for something that I could get in half an hour?
Is time spent in-game somehow magically more valuable (or even invaluable) in comparison to time spent out-of-game? I'm pretty sure that I'm still 10 hours closer to death (maybe moreso if my diet consists of hot pockets) when I spend that time in-game rather than out-of-game.
What if a good friend of mine gives me the 200 gold? Is this also cheating, or is it only cheating if I pay money? Or is it only cheating if I pay money to CHINESE PEOPLE (OH NOES!)?
Edit for the Lawyer: I'm not using "I have a job" as an excuse--I'm merely pointing out that clearly time has a monetary value, and a job makes for a strong comparison.
Gramps, I'm going to break it down for you so that you'll understand. First of all, unless you've found a potion of everlasting life, Time = Money. Now, lets say I want to buy some "Basic Shit" (BS) that I deem is necessary for me to enjoy the game as it has been presented to me. This BS costs 200 gold. I can either a) farm 10 hours at 20 gold/hour
b) buy 200 gold for 10 bucks In Real Life (AKA where the Sun is), lets pretend that I can make 10 bucks in about half an hour. WHY OH WHY should I spend 10 hours for something that I could get in half an hour? Is time spent in-game somehow magically more valuable (or even invaluable) in comparison to time spent out-of-game? I'm pretty sure that I'm still 10 hours closer to death (maybe moreso if my diet consists of hot pockets) when I spend that time in-game rather than out-of-game. What if a good friend of mine gives me the 200 gold? Is this also cheating, or is it only cheating if I pay money? Or is it only cheating if I pay money to CHINESE PEOPLE (OH NOES!)? Edit for the Lawyer: I'm not using "I have a job" as an excuse--I'm merely pointing out that clearly time has a monetary value, and a job makes for a strong comparison.
If you believe time equals money i must say you did pick the wrong hobby.
Yours is an argument thats actually very familiar to me, i mean grand theft auto can net you a couple of months worth of honest work in just about an hour... and there is adifference in between a friend giving you a car as a gift and you buying a stolen vehicle. But lets put ethics aside for a minute.
Why not buy an acount? Theres only a diference in degree from saving yourself 10 hours grinding to actually getting to level cap without any effort. And while youre at it why wouldnt you get some endgear too? I mean, anyway you slice it actual irl work will always be more cost effective than playing. I mean you probably just want to raid or PvP anyway... both of which you could do more efectively playing an fps. I mean, you could save yourself both time and money just doing that. Theyve got massive comunities as well. You get to have your cake and eat it too.
The whole point to an MMORPG is advancing on a persistent world. You put time and effort (ideally have fun doing it) and the end result is you get to be part of a competitive comunity. If youre taking shortcuts not only are you a lying fraud (on the comunity side) but you really arent competitive at all. Leaving morals aside, whats the point? Or do you think that because you only cheated a little it doesnt take anything away from that?
Gold farmers have a very negative effect on the comunity as a whole. Ok, so perhaps this doesnt affect you because you dont stick around for long. What are people with this mentality doing playing games that require so much time? Is it that you like to go to cities and show off? Brag about what you actually didnt acomplish? Is it the char creation and playing dress up with toons? Or is it "necesity"? Cant keep up with the no lifers but want to have all the perks. Or maybe you just think they should provide with a mount from day one? Because if they did im fairly certain youd be missing something else and whatever it is the point is you want what other people have without putting in the effort.
Its kinda like wanting to be a rock star but not wanting to go trough the effort of learning how to play an instrument. If you follow your own argument through there really is no reason to play an MMO at all...
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Gramps, I'm going to break it down for you so that you'll understand. First of all, unless you've found a potion of everlasting life, Time = Money. Now, lets say I want to buy some "Basic Shit" (BS) that I deem is necessary for me to enjoy the game as it has been presented to me. This BS costs 200 gold. I can either a) farm 10 hours at 20 gold/hour
b) buy 200 gold for 10 bucks In Real Life (AKA where the Sun is), lets pretend that I can make 10 bucks in about half an hour. WHY OH WHY should I spend 10 hours for something that I could get in half an hour? Is time spent in-game somehow magically more valuable (or even invaluable) in comparison to time spent out-of-game? I'm pretty sure that I'm still 10 hours closer to death (maybe moreso if my diet consists of hot pockets) when I spend that time in-game rather than out-of-game. What if a good friend of mine gives me the 200 gold? Is this also cheating, or is it only cheating if I pay money? Or is it only cheating if I pay money to CHINESE PEOPLE (OH NOES!)? Edit for the Lawyer: I'm not using "I have a job" as an excuse--I'm merely pointing out that clearly time has a monetary value, and a job makes for a strong comparison.
lol this post made me laugh a couple times, best post in this thread.
I play mmorpgs for fun. I dont find grinding for isk (lets use eve as an example) very fun. Especially since it takes hours to do and the better ships i fly are quite expensive, so when i lose a ship pvping (which some weeks happen alot) i lose time having fun because i have to spend time grinding to make the isk back. Albeit some people enjoy doing some of the tasks of gaining isk... i am not one of those people. So i buy Game time cards and sell them for isk (same as buying isk pretty much, except the people buying never have to pay any RL $$ to play) so i can enjoy myself in the game. I dont know why people cant comprehend that people pay extra to enjoy themselves more in mmorpgs.
TBH i have nothing against buying gold because gold cant buy player skill. There are people in eve in very expensive ships with very expensive modules fitted that they bought through selling GTCs. And there are plenty of cases where these people lose these ships to smaller cheaper ships with more skilled pilots. Same goes for other games, people who buy gold and get kickass gear are probably going to be terrible, unless you run across the occasional player who buys gold to stay competitive in what he does. You can call it cheating, which it probably is, but tbh i do it so i can enjoy my time more so i really dont give a shit what some random person on the internets thinks of it. Lastly no i dont buy gold in every game, Just the times i mentioned earlier and eve.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Gramps, I'm going to break it down for you so that you'll understand. First of all, unless you've found a potion of everlasting life, Time = Money. Now, lets say I want to buy some "Basic Shit" (BS) that I deem is necessary for me to enjoy the game as it has been presented to me. This BS costs 200 gold. I can either a) farm 10 hours at 20 gold/hour
b) buy 200 gold for 10 bucks In Real Life (AKA where the Sun is), lets pretend that I can make 10 bucks in about half an hour. WHY OH WHY should I spend 10 hours for something that I could get in half an hour? Is time spent in-game somehow magically more valuable (or even invaluable) in comparison to time spent out-of-game? I'm pretty sure that I'm still 10 hours closer to death (maybe moreso if my diet consists of hot pockets) when I spend that time in-game rather than out-of-game. What if a good friend of mine gives me the 200 gold? Is this also cheating, or is it only cheating if I pay money? Or is it only cheating if I pay money to CHINESE PEOPLE (OH NOES!)? Edit for the Lawyer: I'm not using "I have a job" as an excuse--I'm merely pointing out that clearly time has a monetary value, and a job makes for a strong comparison.
lol this post made me laugh a couple times, best post in this thread.
I play mmorpgs for fun. I dont find grinding for isk (lets use eve as an example) very fun. Especially since it takes hours to do and the better ships i fly are quite expensive, so when i lose a ship pvping (which some weeks happen alot) i lose time having fun because i have to spend time grinding to make the isk back. Albeit some people enjoy doing some of the tasks of gaining isk... i am not one of those people. So i buy Game time cards and sell them for isk (same as buying isk pretty much, except the people buying never have to pay any RL $$ to play) so i can enjoy myself in the game. I dont know why people cant comprehend that people pay extra to enjoy themselves more in mmorpgs.
TBH i have nothing against buying gold because gold cant buy player skill. There are people in eve in very expensive ships with very expensive modules fitted that they bought through selling GTCs. And there are plenty of cases where these people lose these ships to smaller cheaper ships with more skilled pilots. Same goes for other games, people who buy gold and get kickass gear are probably going to be terrible, unless you run across the occasional player who buys gold to stay competitive in what he does. You can call it cheating, which it probably is, but tbh i do it so i can enjoy my time more so i really dont give a shit what some random person on the internets thinks of it. Lastly no i dont buy gold in every game, Just the times i mentioned earlier and eve.
I have also sold GTCs in eve. Great way to make some quick ISK in a legit way.
I wonder if all these haters still consider it cheating when it's allowed...? I mean, it is the exact same thing, but you are not breaking the EULA. Only difference is that the money is going to the game company, not the Chinese gold farmers or whoever!
Why are all these busy body syndrome. Its a game, play and log out when you are done.
Why bother how others play their game? Why bother if anyone buys gold. Why all the pretentious morals, lecturing others as if there is a righteous way to the path of gaming.
On the other hand, it is very well known that many gold seller are hackers. Buying from them is a personal moral judgment. I will never buy from them, but I won't go out preaching anything like that is gospel.
Playing MMOs is a hobby. Buying something to aid me in my hobby isn't a big deal in my opinion. It's like using bait while fishing. Yes, I could just use a hook and waste hours upon hours hoping to get a little closer to my goal, but I could die tomorrow. I want to get as far as I can with the time I am allotted.
And what if your bait was polluting the river ? Because that's exactly the problem here, and why so many people are against it. Cheating in a solo game ? That's your choice. Cheating in a multi game ? You're negatively affecting others.
Personally, I think you're wasting your money on a virtual asset. USD is harder to get than ISK or gold. Gold is easy to farm and the point is, the games a hobby not real life. Why would I waste my real life money on a game I'm already paying for when I can already EARN those items in-game.
My point is, it's a game. You want to earn these things. I sold accounts on Halo 3 because I could 50's in MLG easily. Well, those people didn't earn those 50's and so no one liked them. Same thing applies here. You didn't earn you status i.e. gear, wealth, level. So no one will respect you.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Well that's fine but you also won't be gaining the same respect as those who took the time and effort. No one likes someone who cuts corners or jumps in front of the line. I've realized this over every competitive game I've played.
Well that's fine but you also won't be gaining the same respect as those who took the time and effort.
that may be. But atleast i didnt waste hours of my life grinding away at something i dont enjoy. It's a video game, its supposed to be entertaining. If i'm not being entertained or enjoying the game, then why play it? Or continue to do the same unenjoyable task? It's like going to the movies but only your unable to watch it unless you work the projector, clean the theatre, and stock the candy shelves. Like i said i pay to go enjoy myself, not work.
EDIT: also before the zealots reply. I dont want everything handed to me either, games i enjoy and dont buy gold for usually have enjoyable or easy ways of getting gold or gear. In a way that i enjoy, not in a way people who enjoy the industrial side of the game.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Well that's fine but you also won't be gaining the same respect as those who took the time and effort.
that may be. But atleast i didnt waste hours of my life grinding away at something i dont enjoy. It's a video game, its supposed to be entertaining. If i'm not being entertained or enjoying the game, then why play it? Or continue to do the same unenjoyable task? It's like going to the movies but only your unable to watch it unless you work the projector, clean the theatre, and stock the candy shelves. Like i said i pay to go enjoy myself, not work.
EDIT: also before the zealots reply. I dont want everything handed to me either, games i enjoy and dont buy gold for usually have enjoyable or easy ways of getting gold or gear. In a way that i enjoy, not in a way people who enjoy the industrial side of the game.
I know grinding for gold isn't the most fun, but the point is the reward at the end of the tunnel. You earn a certain sense of pride and accomplishment when you reach your goal. Also, I would gladly work the projector, clean the theater and stock the shelves if the end product is worth the effort. And many times, the need to grind gold equals a valuable end result.
Well that's fine but you also won't be gaining the same respect as those who took the time and effort.
that may be. But atleast i didnt waste hours of my life grinding away at something i dont enjoy. It's a video game, its supposed to be entertaining. If i'm not being entertained or enjoying the game, then why play it? Or continue to do the same unenjoyable task? It's like going to the movies but only your unable to watch it unless you work the projector, clean the theatre, and stock the candy shelves. Like i said i pay to go enjoy myself, not work.
EDIT: also before the zealots reply. I dont want everything handed to me either, games i enjoy and dont buy gold for usually have enjoyable or easy ways of getting gold or gear. In a way that i enjoy, not in a way people who enjoy the industrial side of the game.
I know grinding for gold isn't the most fun, but the point is the reward at the end of the tunnel. You earn a certain sense of pride and accomplishment when you reach your goal. Also, I would gladly work the projector, clean the theater and stock the shelves if the end product is worth the effort. And many times, the need to grind gold equals a valuable end result.
good for you. Unfortunetly/fortunetly not every mmorpg player out there enjoys doing the same mind numbing dailies and etc every day and not every movie goer wants to do the things listed.
Its called difference of opinion, this conversation/debate will never end.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Well that's fine but you also won't be gaining the same respect as those who took the time and effort.
that may be. But atleast i didnt waste hours of my life grinding away at something i dont enjoy. It's a video game, its supposed to be entertaining. If i'm not being entertained or enjoying the game, then why play it? Or continue to do the same unenjoyable task? It's like going to the movies but only your unable to watch it unless you work the projector, clean the theatre, and stock the candy shelves. Like i said i pay to go enjoy myself, not work.
EDIT: also before the zealots reply. I dont want everything handed to me either, games i enjoy and dont buy gold for usually have enjoyable or easy ways of getting gold or gear. In a way that i enjoy, not in a way people who enjoy the industrial side of the game.
I know grinding for gold isn't the most fun, but the point is the reward at the end of the tunnel. You earn a certain sense of pride and accomplishment when you reach your goal. Also, I would gladly work the projector, clean the theater and stock the shelves if the end product is worth the effort. And many times, the need to grind gold equals a valuable end result.
good for you. Unfortunetly/fortunetly not every mmorpg player out there enjoys doing the same mind numbing dailies and etc every day and not every movie goer wants to do the things listed.
Its called difference of opinion, this conversation/debate will never end.
Obviously it never will because I disagree with your reasoning and logic. You pay to play a game and most MMO's inherently come with some sort of grind, whether it be for gold, xp, or items. So why pay then? On top of that, pay more for things in game. It seems absurd to me.
Also, nice resort to the whole subjective vs. objective argument. I'm glad you just straw-manned this whole thread right there. I know you don't have an answer because your answer would be: I don't care what others think of me. So just say it. Sadly, for you, society is kept in check by embarssment and societal disapproval. So the next time someone calls you out for your short-cut don't be surprised so many people agree with your insulter.
I would be curious to see how much time each person in this thread has to dedicate to games each day.
It seems the people who are buying gold are players who have full-time jobs, families, and the liike....RL obligations that make faming your own resources (items and gold) .
Equally, it seems the people here who are agaisnt it do not have the same degree of RL obligations....or maybe they do and just ignore them for video games.
Of course this is a forum thread, and not a lie detector...so everyone will say what makes them look good. So pretty much anything said in here should be taken with a dump truck of salt.
I do believe the above concept is at the core of the RMT issue. The question I have for the folks who feel that buying gold is cheating (according to the EULA or whatever it is). If the game companies suddenly changed their policy on this, would you still view it as cheating?
Also, in a PvE game, does it really matter if people blow their own cash to in-game currency or whatver?
someone said the word 'Entitlement' as in the younger generation's attitude that they want everything and they want it now and they feel they simply deserve it. There cartainly could be something to this for younger players...
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone www.spankybus.com -3d Artist & Compositor -Writer -Professional Amature
I know grinding for gold isn't the most fun, but the point is the reward at the end of the tunnel. You earn a certain sense of pride and accomplishment when you reach your goal. Also, I would gladly work the projector, clean the theater and stock the shelves if the end product is worth the effort. And many times, the need to grind gold equals a valuable end result.
good for you. Unfortunetly/fortunetly not every mmorpg player out there enjoys doing the same mind numbing dailies and etc every day and not every movie goer wants to do the things listed.
Its called difference of opinion, this conversation/debate will never end.
Obviously it never will because I disagree with your reasoning and logic. You pay to play a game and most MMO's inherently come with some sort of grind, whether it be for gold, xp, or items. So why pay then? On top of that, pay more for things in game. It seems absurd to me.
Have you not read my previous posts? Where did i say i didnt enjoy grinding for exp or items? Did i say i disliked gold grinds in every game? No i didn't. I pay because i still enjoy the game. I still play eve because the pvp and strategy is unlike any other game i've played. I pay more for things in game so i can enjoy myself more ... keep up here mr. xanphia. What sounds absurd to you, is not absurd to others.
So the next time someone calls you out for your short-cut don't be surprised so many people agree with your insulter.
short cut? Would you say people who buy GTCs in eve with isk to pay for their subscriptions bad? Just as bad as people who sell them? Are they taking a short cut? I get the feeling this is more of a "against the eula so its bad" kinda thing now from what i can tell from your posts. Also i dont flaunt that i buy gold or isk in the 2 games i've done it repetitively(sp?) in. It isnt exactly a good conversation starter or ice breaker. Even still it was accepted as a normal thing. If you understood the economys of both lineage 2 and eve you probably wouldnt be so quick to judge.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
To beat the prpblems I guess, the nature of MMOs will have to change. And one option available is to simply make your experience so much fun that no one feels the need to "cheat" the grind in the first place. To be honest, I think instead of real-world trading, games have to be designed in a way that they provide enough fun while you are getting somewhere; if they are incapable of providing you with enough fun while you collect that 1000 gold for a steed, then the game is not good enough.
Comments
So, to sum up, you didn't enjoy playing the game, so you paid someone else to play it for you. Good for you.
Perhaps if money-grinding was at the core of the MMO experience, I would consider your idiotic leap of logic a success, but it isn't. It's just another time sink. I'm sorry you feel threatened by the fact that I have a job and don't have time to run around in circles killing the same mob hundreds of times day and night just to be able to afford basic shit. That just isn't fun for me, and I'd rather spend my FREE TIME (HINT HINT NOT AT MY JOB) having FUN instead of playing an aspect of a game that's really more of a job than a game.
I dont have time to get the uber gear, poor me, i will cheat and get it instead. That will show them.
@gramps: Yep, basically. Congratulations on paying a game company for the privilege of performing slave labor.
Edit: Oh, and while I'm at it, I'm gonna go to the grocery store and CHEAT by buying food instead of growing and slaughtering it myself, and then I'm going to go to the mall and CHEAT by buying clothing instead of sewing it myself. Shit, I'm even on a laptop right now that I got by CHEATING by not hand-manufacturing myself. Wake up, folks. Money-grinding does not belong in gaming. Don't blame the buyers and sellers--blame the game designers.
No, i blame the cheaters. If you do not know whats involved with playing an MMO maybe you should do some research. And if you dont have time to invest in playing the game the way it was meant to be played maybe you should find something to do you can take pride in, instead of trying to justify cheating to those of us that know the difference.
I will certainly do more research into this "Emm Emm Oh" thing. I've only been playing them for 10 years, so I guess that still makes me kind of a noob. In my mind, you create your own gaming experience. If all you care about is your items, then you deserve to have your experience ruined by someone taking a shortcut. While you're busy crying about gold buyers, I'm enjoying the game how I want to enjoy it: exploring the world and chatting with friends. Looks like the cheaters win! Later, gramps!
Cheaters never win, they're just better at fooling themselves into believing that they have.
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
Again, its the entitlement mentality. Some think they are entitled to the best of everything without putting in the time to get it.
No, Im not against gold either but I am against the gold selling banners/ads and tells in game.
Really what's with the "i have a job" excuse, you think spending time on a desk entitles you to anything? People who don't have jobs are working on their education wich is just as valuable, and they have families too. I have a job, and a life as well, I go out with my friends 2-3 nights a week (yea, we drink, and i get wasted) sometimes more. I'm dating the coolest woman you could ever hope to meet (still trying to make her curious about MMOs) i work out every morning, i still try to make time to play the guitar, i'm reading a couple of books and i do follow the news and football matches (i will put MMOs on hold during the world cup). I live in a city where traffic makes it a nightmare to go anywhere... It sometimes feels like a dog's life but i even make time to post on forums (granted, that's mostly time i should be working) and yea, there are weeks i have to give up on some things because all this "multitasking" can drive you crazy. I'm willing to bet most people playing MMOs have to juggle as many things and that i'm far from exceptional.
Just cause some of you may be pencil pushers doesn't give you a right to cheat, go play f2p games if you want money to give you an advantage. And btw, "i have a job" people, i am a lawyer... So don't come to me with sillly arguments about virtual property because all you have in legal terms is a contract with a service provider. Legaleese aside the purpose of said contract is playing a game, and bottomline is no judge or jury in the world will ever accept the argument that you can break a game's rules (to which you did consent) because you feel entitled to someone else's intelectual property. ToS allows a company to permaban you if they catch you and they should. Technically is not just cheating but breach of contract and that means no liability on their part.
I tried not to make it about morals and even admitted to breaking the law in my youth. But what you're trying to justify just comes down to disrespect for fair play. It's like doping in sports except on a much more pathetic level. Why don't you try doing it in Vegas? I'm sure they'll let you off the hook cuz you're pressed for time and can't spend a couple of months in a casino. Oh, but it's easy over the internet and you can get away with it... You're cheats. Anything you may claim to have acomplished in a game it's a lie. You really are the worst kind of noob.
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
Gramps, I'm going to break it down for you so that you'll understand.
First of all, unless you've found a potion of everlasting life, Time = Money.
Now, lets say I want to buy some "Basic Shit" (BS) that I deem is necessary for me to enjoy the game as it has been presented to me. This BS costs 200 gold.
I can either
a) farm 10 hours at 20 gold/hour
b) buy 200 gold for 10 bucks
In Real Life (AKA where the Sun is), lets pretend that I can make 10 bucks in about half an hour.
WHY OH WHY should I spend 10 hours for something that I could get in half an hour?
Is time spent in-game somehow magically more valuable (or even invaluable) in comparison to time spent out-of-game? I'm pretty sure that I'm still 10 hours closer to death (maybe moreso if my diet consists of hot pockets) when I spend that time in-game rather than out-of-game.
What if a good friend of mine gives me the 200 gold? Is this also cheating, or is it only cheating if I pay money? Or is it only cheating if I pay money to CHINESE PEOPLE (OH NOES!)?
Edit for the Lawyer: I'm not using "I have a job" as an excuse--I'm merely pointing out that clearly time has a monetary value, and a job makes for a strong comparison.
If you believe time equals money i must say you did pick the wrong hobby.
Yours is an argument thats actually very familiar to me, i mean grand theft auto can net you a couple of months worth of honest work in just about an hour... and there is adifference in between a friend giving you a car as a gift and you buying a stolen vehicle. But lets put ethics aside for a minute.
Why not buy an acount? Theres only a diference in degree from saving yourself 10 hours grinding to actually getting to level cap without any effort. And while youre at it why wouldnt you get some endgear too? I mean, anyway you slice it actual irl work will always be more cost effective than playing. I mean you probably just want to raid or PvP anyway... both of which you could do more efectively playing an fps. I mean, you could save yourself both time and money just doing that. Theyve got massive comunities as well. You get to have your cake and eat it too.
The whole point to an MMORPG is advancing on a persistent world. You put time and effort (ideally have fun doing it) and the end result is you get to be part of a competitive comunity. If youre taking shortcuts not only are you a lying fraud (on the comunity side) but you really arent competitive at all. Leaving morals aside, whats the point? Or do you think that because you only cheated a little it doesnt take anything away from that?
Gold farmers have a very negative effect on the comunity as a whole. Ok, so perhaps this doesnt affect you because you dont stick around for long. What are people with this mentality doing playing games that require so much time? Is it that you like to go to cities and show off? Brag about what you actually didnt acomplish? Is it the char creation and playing dress up with toons? Or is it "necesity"? Cant keep up with the no lifers but want to have all the perks. Or maybe you just think they should provide with a mount from day one? Because if they did im fairly certain youd be missing something else and whatever it is the point is you want what other people have without putting in the effort.
Its kinda like wanting to be a rock star but not wanting to go trough the effort of learning how to play an instrument. If you follow your own argument through there really is no reason to play an MMO at all...
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
In your opinion.
lol this post made me laugh a couple times, best post in this thread.
I play mmorpgs for fun. I dont find grinding for isk (lets use eve as an example) very fun. Especially since it takes hours to do and the better ships i fly are quite expensive, so when i lose a ship pvping (which some weeks happen alot) i lose time having fun because i have to spend time grinding to make the isk back. Albeit some people enjoy doing some of the tasks of gaining isk... i am not one of those people. So i buy Game time cards and sell them for isk (same as buying isk pretty much, except the people buying never have to pay any RL $$ to play) so i can enjoy myself in the game. I dont know why people cant comprehend that people pay extra to enjoy themselves more in mmorpgs.
TBH i have nothing against buying gold because gold cant buy player skill. There are people in eve in very expensive ships with very expensive modules fitted that they bought through selling GTCs. And there are plenty of cases where these people lose these ships to smaller cheaper ships with more skilled pilots. Same goes for other games, people who buy gold and get kickass gear are probably going to be terrible, unless you run across the occasional player who buys gold to stay competitive in what he does. You can call it cheating, which it probably is, but tbh i do it so i can enjoy my time more so i really dont give a shit what some random person on the internets thinks of it. Lastly no i dont buy gold in every game, Just the times i mentioned earlier and eve.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
lol this post made me laugh a couple times, best post in this thread.
I play mmorpgs for fun. I dont find grinding for isk (lets use eve as an example) very fun. Especially since it takes hours to do and the better ships i fly are quite expensive, so when i lose a ship pvping (which some weeks happen alot) i lose time having fun because i have to spend time grinding to make the isk back. Albeit some people enjoy doing some of the tasks of gaining isk... i am not one of those people. So i buy Game time cards and sell them for isk (same as buying isk pretty much, except the people buying never have to pay any RL $$ to play) so i can enjoy myself in the game. I dont know why people cant comprehend that people pay extra to enjoy themselves more in mmorpgs.
TBH i have nothing against buying gold because gold cant buy player skill. There are people in eve in very expensive ships with very expensive modules fitted that they bought through selling GTCs. And there are plenty of cases where these people lose these ships to smaller cheaper ships with more skilled pilots. Same goes for other games, people who buy gold and get kickass gear are probably going to be terrible, unless you run across the occasional player who buys gold to stay competitive in what he does. You can call it cheating, which it probably is, but tbh i do it so i can enjoy my time more so i really dont give a shit what some random person on the internets thinks of it. Lastly no i dont buy gold in every game, Just the times i mentioned earlier and eve.
I have also sold GTCs in eve. Great way to make some quick ISK in a legit way.
I wonder if all these haters still consider it cheating when it's allowed...? I mean, it is the exact same thing, but you are not breaking the EULA. Only difference is that the money is going to the game company, not the Chinese gold farmers or whoever!
Why are all these busy body syndrome. Its a game, play and log out when you are done.
Why bother how others play their game? Why bother if anyone buys gold. Why all the pretentious morals, lecturing others as if there is a righteous way to the path of gaming.
On the other hand, it is very well known that many gold seller are hackers. Buying from them is a personal moral judgment. I will never buy from them, but I won't go out preaching anything like that is gospel.
And what if your bait was polluting the river ? Because that's exactly the problem here, and why so many people are against it. Cheating in a solo game ? That's your choice. Cheating in a multi game ? You're negatively affecting others.
Infinity: The Quest for Earth, space-sim MMO with a seamless procedural galaxy.
Personally, I think you're wasting your money on a virtual asset. USD is harder to get than ISK or gold. Gold is easy to farm and the point is, the games a hobby not real life. Why would I waste my real life money on a game I'm already paying for when I can already EARN those items in-game.
My point is, it's a game. You want to earn these things. I sold accounts on Halo 3 because I could 50's in MLG easily. Well, those people didn't earn those 50's and so no one liked them. Same thing applies here. You didn't earn you status i.e. gear, wealth, level. So no one will respect you.
no .... no i dont... atleast not all of em.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
no .... no i dont... atleast not all of em.
Well that's fine but you also won't be gaining the same respect as those who took the time and effort. No one likes someone who cuts corners or jumps in front of the line. I've realized this over every competitive game I've played.
no .... no i dont... atleast not all of em.
Well that's fine but you also won't be gaining the same respect as those who took the time and effort.
that may be. But atleast i didnt waste hours of my life grinding away at something i dont enjoy. It's a video game, its supposed to be entertaining. If i'm not being entertained or enjoying the game, then why play it? Or continue to do the same unenjoyable task? It's like going to the movies but only your unable to watch it unless you work the projector, clean the theatre, and stock the candy shelves. Like i said i pay to go enjoy myself, not work.
EDIT: also before the zealots reply. I dont want everything handed to me either, games i enjoy and dont buy gold for usually have enjoyable or easy ways of getting gold or gear. In a way that i enjoy, not in a way people who enjoy the industrial side of the game.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
no .... no i dont... atleast not all of em.
Well that's fine but you also won't be gaining the same respect as those who took the time and effort.
that may be. But atleast i didnt waste hours of my life grinding away at something i dont enjoy. It's a video game, its supposed to be entertaining. If i'm not being entertained or enjoying the game, then why play it? Or continue to do the same unenjoyable task? It's like going to the movies but only your unable to watch it unless you work the projector, clean the theatre, and stock the candy shelves. Like i said i pay to go enjoy myself, not work.
EDIT: also before the zealots reply. I dont want everything handed to me either, games i enjoy and dont buy gold for usually have enjoyable or easy ways of getting gold or gear. In a way that i enjoy, not in a way people who enjoy the industrial side of the game.
I know grinding for gold isn't the most fun, but the point is the reward at the end of the tunnel. You earn a certain sense of pride and accomplishment when you reach your goal. Also, I would gladly work the projector, clean the theater and stock the shelves if the end product is worth the effort. And many times, the need to grind gold equals a valuable end result.
no .... no i dont... atleast not all of em.
Well that's fine but you also won't be gaining the same respect as those who took the time and effort.
that may be. But atleast i didnt waste hours of my life grinding away at something i dont enjoy. It's a video game, its supposed to be entertaining. If i'm not being entertained or enjoying the game, then why play it? Or continue to do the same unenjoyable task? It's like going to the movies but only your unable to watch it unless you work the projector, clean the theatre, and stock the candy shelves. Like i said i pay to go enjoy myself, not work.
EDIT: also before the zealots reply. I dont want everything handed to me either, games i enjoy and dont buy gold for usually have enjoyable or easy ways of getting gold or gear. In a way that i enjoy, not in a way people who enjoy the industrial side of the game.
I know grinding for gold isn't the most fun, but the point is the reward at the end of the tunnel. You earn a certain sense of pride and accomplishment when you reach your goal. Also, I would gladly work the projector, clean the theater and stock the shelves if the end product is worth the effort. And many times, the need to grind gold equals a valuable end result.
good for you. Unfortunetly/fortunetly not every mmorpg player out there enjoys doing the same mind numbing dailies and etc every day and not every movie goer wants to do the things listed.
Its called difference of opinion, this conversation/debate will never end.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
no .... no i dont... atleast not all of em.
Well that's fine but you also won't be gaining the same respect as those who took the time and effort.
that may be. But atleast i didnt waste hours of my life grinding away at something i dont enjoy. It's a video game, its supposed to be entertaining. If i'm not being entertained or enjoying the game, then why play it? Or continue to do the same unenjoyable task? It's like going to the movies but only your unable to watch it unless you work the projector, clean the theatre, and stock the candy shelves. Like i said i pay to go enjoy myself, not work.
EDIT: also before the zealots reply. I dont want everything handed to me either, games i enjoy and dont buy gold for usually have enjoyable or easy ways of getting gold or gear. In a way that i enjoy, not in a way people who enjoy the industrial side of the game.
I know grinding for gold isn't the most fun, but the point is the reward at the end of the tunnel. You earn a certain sense of pride and accomplishment when you reach your goal. Also, I would gladly work the projector, clean the theater and stock the shelves if the end product is worth the effort. And many times, the need to grind gold equals a valuable end result.
good for you. Unfortunetly/fortunetly not every mmorpg player out there enjoys doing the same mind numbing dailies and etc every day and not every movie goer wants to do the things listed.
Its called difference of opinion, this conversation/debate will never end.
Obviously it never will because I disagree with your reasoning and logic. You pay to play a game and most MMO's inherently come with some sort of grind, whether it be for gold, xp, or items. So why pay then? On top of that, pay more for things in game. It seems absurd to me.
Also, nice resort to the whole subjective vs. objective argument. I'm glad you just straw-manned this whole thread right there. I know you don't have an answer because your answer would be: I don't care what others think of me. So just say it. Sadly, for you, society is kept in check by embarssment and societal disapproval. So the next time someone calls you out for your short-cut don't be surprised so many people agree with your insulter.
I would be curious to see how much time each person in this thread has to dedicate to games each day.
It seems the people who are buying gold are players who have full-time jobs, families, and the liike....RL obligations that make faming your own resources (items and gold) .
Equally, it seems the people here who are agaisnt it do not have the same degree of RL obligations....or maybe they do and just ignore them for video games.
Of course this is a forum thread, and not a lie detector...so everyone will say what makes them look good. So pretty much anything said in here should be taken with a dump truck of salt.
I do believe the above concept is at the core of the RMT issue. The question I have for the folks who feel that buying gold is cheating (according to the EULA or whatever it is). If the game companies suddenly changed their policy on this, would you still view it as cheating?
Also, in a PvE game, does it really matter if people blow their own cash to in-game currency or whatver?
someone said the word 'Entitlement' as in the younger generation's attitude that they want everything and they want it now and they feel they simply deserve it. There cartainly could be something to this for younger players...
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature
good for you. Unfortunetly/fortunetly not every mmorpg player out there enjoys doing the same mind numbing dailies and etc every day and not every movie goer wants to do the things listed.
Its called difference of opinion, this conversation/debate will never end.
Obviously it never will because I disagree with your reasoning and logic. You pay to play a game and most MMO's inherently come with some sort of grind, whether it be for gold, xp, or items. So why pay then? On top of that, pay more for things in game. It seems absurd to me.
Have you not read my previous posts? Where did i say i didnt enjoy grinding for exp or items? Did i say i disliked gold grinds in every game? No i didn't. I pay because i still enjoy the game. I still play eve because the pvp and strategy is unlike any other game i've played. I pay more for things in game so i can enjoy myself more ... keep up here mr. xanphia. What sounds absurd to you, is not absurd to others.
So the next time someone calls you out for your short-cut don't be surprised so many people agree with your insulter.
short cut? Would you say people who buy GTCs in eve with isk to pay for their subscriptions bad? Just as bad as people who sell them? Are they taking a short cut? I get the feeling this is more of a "against the eula so its bad" kinda thing now from what i can tell from your posts. Also i dont flaunt that i buy gold or isk in the 2 games i've done it repetitively(sp?) in. It isnt exactly a good conversation starter or ice breaker. Even still it was accepted as a normal thing. If you understood the economys of both lineage 2 and eve you probably wouldnt be so quick to judge.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
To beat the prpblems I guess, the nature of MMOs will have to change. And one option available is to simply make your experience so much fun that no one feels the need to "cheat" the grind in the first place. To be honest, I think instead of real-world trading, games have to be designed in a way that they provide enough fun while you are getting somewhere; if they are incapable of providing you with enough fun while you collect that 1000 gold for a steed, then the game is not good enough.