Originally posted by darev Yes, I do think that he's seen it at least once. I can't imagine ANYONE being so blase about their own brainchild that just because it's outside of the actual canon (the films) that they wouldn't at least be a tad bit curious. Then, from strictly a business perspective, if I were him, I would want, at bare minimum, 6 month reports that said at least "It's doing ok, SOE's still making a profit, we're getting paid and they want to keep the license another year after its up." Hey, that's me, and I'm not him.
LUCAS: "I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."
That is why Ryloth has two different discriptions. The EU world is a geo centric world that does not turn on its axis. This causes it to have frozen barren dark side and a molten flare ripped sunny side. The Twi-leks exist in the narrow band (mostly underground) that exists in between the two sides as a twilight zone.
In the Clone Wars animated series, its another world with barren wastes and vegitation like any other habital planet. This is what George imagined.
Which sounds more interesting?
And things like that change all the time in Sci-Fi. Look at Star Trek for a moment, namely lets bring up what happen in Star Trek 6 with the Klingon homeworld of Qo'noS. Remember the movie stated that the Moon Praxis blew to kingdom come and that the Klingon homeworld only had 50 years of air left?
Next Generation however, everything is just fine with Qo'noS. Granted at that point Next Generation had been on the air for a few years. But all of that is never really talked about... Point is things can change overnight at times with Sci-Fi, hell how many times did the plot of the X-Files change? Babylon 5 made an art out of things changing overnight. Any content can and chances are will be changed.
And I should point out that Ryloth was shown a number of times in EU content BEFORE Clone Wars as being a barren world. Some of the Dark Horse Comics showed Ryloth in that way, I believe the first one was right after the Knights of the Old Republic Sith War/Exar Kun run. Empire at War had Ryloth as a barren world. Again Pre-Clone Wars...
Now here's the thing with EU content...
Lucas still over all has a say in what go's in and what happens when it comes to EU content. He was the one who said yes to Chewwie being killed in the first book of New Jedi Order. One of the first big Star Wars books, Heir to the Empire had a few fun facts behind it. It was the first book that gave the name of the Imperial homeworld if you will Coruscant. Joruus C'baoth was going to be a mad clone of Obi-Wan till Lucas nixed that idea.
I do remember reading too that Lucas did have to give his yay or nay with a number of things as well. Allowing some of the plot and content in a number of EU games like the X-Wing/TIE Fighter line, the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight line. Some of the comic books I've read he has had a say in, mostly when Dark Horse took over as Marvel did some well insane things... Don't forget that Shadows of the Empire and Force Unleashed are "canon" hell Lucas even gave a ton of input into Force Unleashed.
And yeah the Zombie Stormtroopers in Death Troopers? Not the first time they have had Zombies in Star Wars.
One of the Pre-Cartoon Clone Wars Comics had Skywalker and Obi-Wan fighting undead Gungan's on Rori with two other Jedi's and an ARC Trooper named Alpha. There was a Comic with Han and Chewwie fighting undead on a planet. Now want to hear the real kicker that many of you will hate? Zombies for the most part do fit in with Star Wars!
I forget where I saw it but there was something about the Sith being able to make what we could call a Zombie. More like the Voodoo Zombie that is a true real life thing. Some of the Zombie Movies out there sometimes deal with whatever made the Zombies was something the Military was screwing around with that got out of control. Wouldn't come as a big shocker if the Empire did try to do something along those lines. Hell one of my friends put it great back when Dark Horse started doing the Star Wars Comics, when are they going to make a Star Wars vs Aliens? He put it best the Empire would screw around with the Aliens if they really believed they could make some kinda weapon out of them.
Kinda like how some Zombie movies or books are... Point is, Zombies for the most part can be seen in a Sci-Fi light, better still the idea behind a Zombie in Star Wars fits as well. And chances are Lucas did have to say yes or no to it...
The point of this is to point out that canon like I said can change in a heartbeat. And Lucas does have somewhat of a say with what go's into Star Wars...
Still if you really just want to say SWG should have gone along with the movies... Well really there wouldn't have been much of a game.
In closing, I'd just like to say this: whatever evil SOE has done to the game with the NGE, they've managed to pull it back from the abyss and turn Galaxies into a really great sandbox MMORPG.
You are 100% right.
SWG as is today is the best sandbox there is.
It was a total disaster the day after NGE hit.. and kept being that for months but as it stands today it is a solid game and one of the last sandbox games that we will probably see for a very long time.
I have said in several other threads (most of them swarmed with hate from bitter vets that do not even bother to see what the game has become) that the game that I loved, then hated, then returned to is a enjoyable experience today. Crafting system in SWG still shines in my book as unbeaten. And people that say that crafting is pointless and destroyed is wrong.
I was a tailor in Vanilla SWG and I am a tailor now and I have just as fun today as I had back then.
SOE has by several people (even SMED) in several ways for several years admitted that they did a mistake with NGE. And they have worked as best as they can to fix lots of the issues. This will be denied by the same gang of angry vets forever. But if you have a mindset that are able to put behind anger and frustration and look what the game is today you will see that its a lot more sandbox than the day after NGE and its more sandbox than any games out there.
The game deserves to be supported because if this game does, its a signal that people want to have games with advanced crafting system, with player cities, with housing, with things that many pew pew players think are just pointless fluff but is important for RP players and so on.
And yes.. the storyteller and player quest system is pretty damn good!
After server merge.. while obviously less servers than before.. many places feels like vanilla SWG as there are more people there and more people = more fun. Because at the end of the day what makes or breaks you MMORPG experience is the guild / community.
In closing, I'd just like to say this: whatever evil SOE has done to the game with the NGE, they've managed to pull it back from the abyss and turn Galaxies into a really great sandbox MMORPG.
You are 100% right.
Uh...guys? "...Pull it back from the abyss"? Maybe you missed it, but they closed half their servers yesterday. How is that pulling it back?!?!...kinda reminds me of how successful the stimulus bills have been (that's sarcasm).
We seem to have two COMPLETELY different ideas of how "success" is measured these days...that or my dream where I was naked chasing after Miley Cyrus's tour bus in the rain and stumbled into the storm drain vortex that took me to an alternate reality was real...either way, SoE hasn't exactly "turned it around" yet - subscriber #'s are dropping faster than Obama's approval ratings.
A busy transfer to server doesn't = successful game. I'm going to guess you're both on Starsider now too right? Measuring how well a game is doing after server closures/mergers gives you a very skewed result guys. Sure...populations are up on several servers...but overall, they are down.
And Wildcat has the best reply on why SWG isn't a true "sandbox" any longer. It WAS...but it's not now. There are elements, but any game that gives you a choice would also arguably have some element of a sandbox. To claim that the current SWG is the best just seems odd to me.
In closing, I'd just like to say this: whatever evil SOE has done to the game with the NGE, they've managed to pull it back from the abyss and turn Galaxies into a really great sandbox MMORPG.
It was a total disaster the day after NGE hit.. and kept being that for months but as it stands today it is a solid game and one of the last sandbox games that we will probably see for a very long time.
I have said in several other threads (most of them swarmed with hate from bitter vets that do not even bother to see what the game has become) that the game that I loved, then hated, then returned to is a enjoyable experience today. Crafting system in SWG still shines in my book as unbeaten. And people that say that crafting is pointless and destroyed is wrong.
I was a tailor in Vanilla SWG and I am a tailor now and I have just as fun today as I had back then.
SOE has by several people (even SMED) in several ways for several years admitted that they did a mistake with NGE. And they have worked as best as they can to fix lots of the issues. This will be denied by the same gang of angry vets forever. But if you have a mindset that are able to put behind anger and frustration and look what the game is today you will see that its a lot more sandbox than the day after NGE and its more sandbox than any games out there.
The game deserves to be supported because if this game does, its a signal that people want to have games with advanced crafting system, with player cities, with housing, with things that many pew pew players think are just pointless fluff but is important for RP players and so on.
Blah... blah... blah.
A few things that boosters of the currently played game, in its current form, can not get by:
1. If SWG were any good, more people than the last 10-20k holdouts would play it, they dont.
2. If SWG were any good or had any future, there would have been at least 1 expansion in the last 4 years, there hasn't been.
3. If SOE gave a crap about SWG, there would be more than the skeleton crew Dev team and the "lead" devs would not keep jumping ship.
4. If SOE gave a crap about SWG, there would advertise it, somewhere, anywhere... they don't.
5. If SWG was not terrible, compared to what it once was, what it is now, and compared to other MMOs on the market, NOTHING we "Hate-filled, disgruntled vets" said would make any difference, but the game IS that bad, so people don't play.
By your failed logic, people should pay to play a bad game, and reward the wreckers of a good game, just for the chance that some sandbox game down the line will be made that is not bad? Huh?
If Smed and SOE gave crap about the "mistake" they made with NGE, they'd have put up a classic server by now as a way of making it up to their customers. But they haven't and don't give a crap. Customers, all customers, are disposable to them. And that includes you. Different SOE employees have openly mocked SWG customers several times in the past and there's nothing like the internet to keep something around forever.
Don't think we vets don't know how the current game is? SOE has thrown around enough vet trials, begging to get subs back, that we know very well how the game is. And the current game, despite all the new shiny grind systems they try to foist off on people as "content", is still bad.
In closing, I'd just like to say this: whatever evil SOE has done to the game with the NGE, they've managed to pull it back from the abyss and turn Galaxies into a really great sandbox MMORPG.
It was a total disaster the day after NGE hit.. and kept being that for months but as it stands today it is a solid game and one of the last sandbox games that we will probably see for a very long time.
I have said in several other threads (most of them swarmed with hate from bitter vets that do not even bother to see what the game has become) that the game that I loved, then hated, then returned to is a enjoyable experience today. Crafting system in SWG still shines in my book as unbeaten. And people that say that crafting is pointless and destroyed is wrong.
I was a tailor in Vanilla SWG and I am a tailor now and I have just as fun today as I had back then.
SOE has by several people (even SMED) in several ways for several years admitted that they did a mistake with NGE. And they have worked as best as they can to fix lots of the issues. This will be denied by the same gang of angry vets forever. But if you have a mindset that are able to put behind anger and frustration and look what the game is today you will see that its a lot more sandbox than the day after NGE and its more sandbox than any games out there.
The game deserves to be supported because if this game does, its a signal that people want to have games with advanced crafting system, with player cities, with housing, with things that many pew pew players think are just pointless fluff but is important for RP players and so on.
Blah... blah... blah.
A few things that boosters of the currently played game, in its current form, can not get by:
1. If SWG were any good, more people than the last 10-20k holdouts would play it, they dont.
2. If SWG were any good or had any future, there would have been at least 1 expansion in the last 4 years, there hasn't been.
3. If SOE gave a crap about SWG, there would be more than the skeleton crew Dev team and the "lead" devs would not keep jumping ship.
4. If SOE gave a crap about SWG, there would advertise it, somewhere, anywhere... they don't.
5. If SWG was not terrible, compared to what it once was, what it is now, and compared to other MMOs on the market, NOTHING we "Hate-filled, disgruntled vets" said would make any difference, but the game IS that bad, so people don't play.
By your failed logic, people should pay to play a bad game, and reward the wreckers of a good game, just for the chance that some sandbox game down the line will be made that is not bad? Huh?
If Smed and SOE gave crap about the "mistake" they made with NGE, they'd have put up a classic server by now as a way of making it up to their customers. But they haven't and don't give a crap. Customers, all customers, are disposable to them. And that includes you. Different SOE employees have openly mocked SWG customers several times in the past and there's nothing like the internet to keep something around forever.
Don't think we vets don't know how the current game is? SOE has thrown around enough vet trials, begging to get subs back, that we know very well how the game is. And the current game, despite all the new shiny grind systems they try to foist off on people as "content", is still bad.
Well, as a current player who enjoys the game, all I can say is that I understand why people who left because of the NGE don't like it. If it hadn't been for the space part of the game, I would have done the same. However, the game today is vastly different, and improved, from the first months of the NGE. That may not mean much to you, or others, but I view the game is it is right now, not as it once was.
In response to your numbered statements:
1) I think your sub numbers are a bit on the low side, but while I can't disagree with your sentiment, swg gets, in my mind, a bad rap and the subs probably suffer for it.
2) I disagree. Expansions do not equate a "popular" game and SWG has gotten many updates over the last two years that have content equal to many other games' espansions.
3) I think that's more a business decision than anything else. I assume that the profits to SWG are tied into the station pass, as such there's no real way to judge just how big a "PIE" it is for SOE.
4) I completely agree with you.
5) I have to say this is a "squeaky wheel gets the oil" scenario. The disallusioned vets are very vocal, while the people who enjoy the game actually play it and therefore aren't heard as often.
Originally posted by darev Well, as a current player who enjoys the game, all I can say is that I understand why people who left because of the NGE don't like it. If it hadn't been for the space part of the game, I would have done the same. However, the game today is vastly different, and improved, from the first months of the NGE. That may not mean much to you, or others, but I view the game is it is right now, not as it once was.
In response to your numbered statements: 1) I think your sub numbers are a bit on the low side, but while I can't disagree with your sentiment, swg gets, in my mind, a bad rap and the subs probably suffer for it. 2) I disagree. Expansions do not equate a "popular" game and SWG has gotten many updates over the last two years that have content equal to many other games' espansions. 3) I think that's more a business decision than anything else. I assume that the profits to SWG are tied into the station pass, as such there's no real way to judge just how big a "PIE" it is for SOE. 4) I completely agree with you. 5) I have to say this is a "squeaky wheel gets the oil" scenario. The disallusioned vets are very vocal, while the people who enjoy the game actually play it and therefore aren't heard as often.
Anything would look improved to the condition of swg in nov 2005. Comparing swg four years later to nov 2005 is not much of a comparison.
2) Expansions make money for a company, but they require a large enough playerbase to purchase them. SWG has not had enough players to justify funding an expansion since Nov 2005. That and that alone is why swg does not get paid expansions. Also saying swg has had updates equal to other games expansions is beyond stretching of a the truth. What update has swg gotten that is as large as any other game expansion? I think this statement can be easily disproven regardless of any content pathced soe has released since 2005.
5) there are millions and millions and millions of players who entered the mmo market after the nge. There is no way some angry players are dissuading that many people from trying or playing the game. A few angry posters cannot scare away that many people. Just look at how people on this site bash on wow, but look at its success. If what you say is true the same should apply, but obviously it doesn't.
Originally posted by darev Well, as a current player who enjoys the game, all I can say is that I understand why people who left because of the NGE don't like it. If it hadn't been for the space part of the game, I would have done the same. However, the game today is vastly different, and improved, from the first months of the NGE. That may not mean much to you, or others, but I view the game is it is right now, not as it once was.
In response to your numbered statements: 1) I think your sub numbers are a bit on the low side, but while I can't disagree with your sentiment, swg gets, in my mind, a bad rap and the subs probably suffer for it. 2) I disagree. Expansions do not equate a "popular" game and SWG has gotten many updates over the last two years that have content equal to many other games' espansions. 3) I think that's more a business decision than anything else. I assume that the profits to SWG are tied into the station pass, as such there's no real way to judge just how big a "PIE" it is for SOE. 4) I completely agree with you. 5) I have to say this is a "squeaky wheel gets the oil" scenario. The disallusioned vets are very vocal, while the people who enjoy the game actually play it and therefore aren't heard as often.
Anything would look improved to the condition of swg in nov 2005. Comparing swg four years later to nov 2005 is not much of a comparison.
2) Expansions make money for a company, but they require a large enough playerbase to purchase them. SWG has not had enough players to justify funding an expansion since Nov 2005. That and that alone is why swg does not get paid expansions. Also saying swg has had updates equal to other games expansions is beyond stretching of a the truth. What update has swg gotten that is as large as any other game expansion? I think this statement can be easily disproven regardless of any content pathced soe has released since 2005.
5) there are millions and millions and millions of players who entered the mmo market after the nge. There is no way some angry players are dissuading that many people from trying or playing the game. A few angry posters cannot scare away that many people. Just look at how people on this site bash on wow, but look at its success. If what you say is true the same should apply, but obviously it doesn't.
That was not players that were online that day, but players who tried the new battlegrounds.
And this has to be taken into consideration:
How many players of the total populations actually tests battlegrounds the first day? probably very few.
How many of the total population of SWG are online everyday and actually that particular day?
How many are interested in battlegrounds at all?
No crafters or entertainers goes to battleground and these classes makes up for a big number of players.
So most likely, only the pvp interested people that plays combat classes that were online that day and wanted to test it immediately were counted into that number. So that means a number of 3000 is probably very decent.
Originally posted by darev Well, as a current player who enjoys the game, all I can say is that I understand why people who left because of the NGE don't like it. If it hadn't been for the space part of the game, I would have done the same. However, the game today is vastly different, and improved, from the first months of the NGE. That may not mean much to you, or others, but I view the game is it is right now, not as it once was.
In response to your numbered statements: 1) I think your sub numbers are a bit on the low side, but while I can't disagree with your sentiment, swg gets, in my mind, a bad rap and the subs probably suffer for it. 2) I disagree. Expansions do not equate a "popular" game and SWG has gotten many updates over the last two years that have content equal to many other games' espansions. 3) I think that's more a business decision than anything else. I assume that the profits to SWG are tied into the station pass, as such there's no real way to judge just how big a "PIE" it is for SOE. 4) I completely agree with you. 5) I have to say this is a "squeaky wheel gets the oil" scenario. The disallusioned vets are very vocal, while the people who enjoy the game actually play it and therefore aren't heard as often.
Anything would look improved to the condition of swg in nov 2005. Comparing swg four years later to nov 2005 is not much of a comparison.
2) Expansions make money for a company, but they require a large enough playerbase to purchase them. SWG has not had enough players to justify funding an expansion since Nov 2005. That and that alone is why swg does not get paid expansions. Also saying swg has had updates equal to other games expansions is beyond stretching of a the truth. What update has swg gotten that is as large as any other game expansion? I think this statement can be easily disproven regardless of any content pathced soe has released since 2005.
5) there are millions and millions and millions of players who entered the mmo market after the nge. There is no way some angry players are dissuading that many people from trying or playing the game. A few angry posters cannot scare away that many people. Just look at how people on this site bash on wow, but look at its success. If what you say is true the same should apply, but obviously it doesn't.
Not gotten jump to far into this but i will say that SWG still has alittle bit of a chance to survive. That being said I think the number one turn off is its suppose to be a galaxy at war with the rebellion and Empire fighting hot and heavy and thats not really displayed to well in the game. If the GCW revamp happens and turns out to be something like they were talking about I honestly believe that the game could have a new life support line hooked up and it would bring in new and old players. The game itself isnt all that bad. Granted its nothing like its former self but the NGE itself as it stands today is a fairly good game as does have a nice open world with a sandbox feeling to it.. Personally i think that if the GCW update doesnt go over well the game is dead. The subs will fall below what SOE/LA finds acceptable.
As far as your number 5. Well i can only say i know alot of ppl that have never tried it along with some older vets that havent been back since NGE that due to what ppl or websites say willnot try it. Real life friends i have wont touch it from reviews that they have seen both on this website and other places. Some vets i know wont touch it due to the betrayal they still feel to this day of having their game stolen away. While i cant blame either I do believe the game is worth trying and provided you find the right helpful pl or guild ingame it can be very enjoyable. But to tell the truth thats just something that you have to do on your own and many wont even touch it due to bad press about SOE and SWG. Hell i have a friend that wont touch a SOE game whether it looks great or not due to them changing to CU then to NGE.
Its still got some sandbox to it and you never know what your gonna like til you try it.
That was not players that were online that day, but players who tried the new battlegrounds. And this has to be taken into consideration: How many players of the total populations actually tests battlegrounds the first day? probably very few. How many of the total population of SWG are online everyday and actually that particular day? How many are interested in battlegrounds at all? No crafters or entertainers goes to battleground and these classes makes up for a big number of players. So most likely, only the pvp interested people that plays combat classes that were online that day and wanted to test it immediately were counted into that number. So that means a number of 3000 is probably very decent.
I fully disagree with everything you said above and think you are just trying to find reasons to ignore the obvious.
Lets look at it.
The battlegrounds were are major content patch for swg and major content patches are always high population draws. It doesn't matter what game it is, big content patches draw players in. People even resubscribe due to content patches. You even see games suddenly have login ques on patch days like LOTRO and WoW often do. I am not saying the entire population of the game logged in, but you bet your ass a large portion did. People want to see new changes.
SWG has far more activity per player than typical mmos. Straight from soe you have 65% of the playerbase active on the forums which is leaps and bounds above other mmos. It is just as likely that you have a far higher total portion of the subscriber base logged in each night, regardless of patch. That is what happens when games population crashes and is reduced to the most dedicated fans. That is not a slam, but an observation.
Your point about crafters and entertainers is moot also. This was not a counter of CHARACTERS, it was a count of UNIQUE PLAYERS. If someone has a crafter then odds are pretty good they also have a combat character.
So that leaves us with 3,000 unique players trying brand new content. I somehow doubt the majority of the players avoided it and would go one step further to say that I bet many tried it even if they don't like pvp. Just to see something new even if only for a few moments.
Even if you go beyond the first day, it isn't like there was a rush of people using the battlegrounds on day 2 and they pretty much died soon after their release. If only a few tried it on the first day then surely there would be a swelling of people joining after the first day right?
Maybe the 3,000 does represent people just checking it out.
Imagine the game has 50,000 players (or whatever number you wish). That would mean a major content patch was only interesting enough to get 3 out of every 50 people to try it on patch day? Do you see how incredibly silly is sounds to think 47 out of 50 people ignored patch day content?
That was not players that were online that day, but players who tried the new battlegrounds. And this has to be taken into consideration: How many players of the total populations actually tests battlegrounds the first day? probably very few. How many of the total population of SWG are online everyday and actually that particular day? How many are interested in battlegrounds at all? No crafters or entertainers goes to battleground and these classes makes up for a big number of players. So most likely, only the pvp interested people that plays combat classes that were online that day and wanted to test it immediately were counted into that number. So that means a number of 3000 is probably very decent.
I fully disagree with everything you said above and think you are just trying to find reasons to ignore the obvious.
Lets look at it.
The battlegrounds were are major content patch for swg and major content patches are always high population draws. It doesn't matter what game it is, big content patches draw players in. People even resubscribe due to content patches. You even see games suddenly have login ques on patch days like LOTRO and WoW often do. I am not saying the entire population of the game logged in, but you bet your ass a large portion did. People want to see new changes.
SWG has far more activity per player than typical mmos. Straight from soe you have 65% of the playerbase active on the forums which is leaps and bounds above other mmos. It is just as likely that you have a far higher total portion of the subscriber base logged in each night, regardless of patch. That is what happens when games population crashes and is reduced to the most dedicated fans. That is not a slam, but an observation.
Your point about crafters and entertainers is moot also. This was not a counter of CHARACTERS, it was a count of UNIQUE PLAYERS. If someone has a crafter then odds are pretty good they also have a combat character.
So that leaves us with 3,000 unique players trying brand new content. I somehow doubt the majority of the players avoided it and would go one step further to say that I bet many tried it even if they don't like pvp. Just to see something new even if only for a few moments.
Even if you go beyond the first day, it isn't like there was a rush of people using the battlegrounds on day 2 and they pretty much died soon after their release. If only a few tried it on the first day then surely there would be a swelling of people joining after the first day right?
Maybe the 3,000 does represent people just checking it out.
Imagine the game has 50,000 players (or whatever number you wish). That would mean a major content patch was only interesting enough to get 3 out of every 50 people to try it on patch day? Do you see how incredibly silly is sounds to think 47 out of 50 people ignored patch day content?
The forum claim is interesting.
Actually. The SWG forum has a counter. And it counts how many players are browing the forum as loged in at the exact same time. And that number is 51,475.
So at one given time. There has been 51.000 persons browsing that forum.
Just think about it. How many of the player base will be online browsing the forum at the exact same time of a day that has 24 hours?
SWG, unlike most games have people from all over the world at the same servers.
And even if the claim about 65% was right. I mean seriously how big percentage of that population would be online at the very same time? 10 %, 20 % .. I mean we are not talking who are logged in at the same day. But overlaps each other at the exact same time.
So that number indicates that there are several hundred thousands accounts registered and browsing SWG forums. And if only 65% .. means still 35 % left ( and that is a large number if there are 200 000 users on forum.. actually its 70 000 ).
And the brand new content here.. that is mentioned is PVP content. And while PVP in SWG is unique. A majority of the playerbase are focused on PVE. So 3000 unique players trying one pvp part of new content first day is good. And I really doubt SOE or any other company would go out and put up such a number to "glare" at as they say themselves if it had been bad.
At least I doubt that the game has so few players as some people claims. The best indication however. Is the feeling you get when you are logged in. And I played the game from November 2003 untill November 2005 .. and had some comebacks untill the one now where I discovered how good the game has become over the years.. and I can never remember to have seen that amount of people, even in more deserted places of the game. Mos Eisley boils.. and I have trouble finding the NPCs in front of the starport.
I mean.. instead of writing here and guessing this or that. Its so much better to download a trial or reactivate the account and actually see for yourself. I did that.. I was sure I would meet a dead game. I mean reading these forums over the year made me belive SWG was a corpse getting electro shock by SOE to try to get its heart beating again. What I found was a community and people playing and enjoying a game in a scale that instantly reminded me of the best Days before NGE.
The OP is absolutely right. SWG is the best sandbox game out there. And if you are one that have never tried a sandbox game before. Do not let these forums scare you away from trying it. The best ways to find out about a game is not by listening to others but actually try it yourself. Only you as a person can know what you like. And if you do not like it, then try another game.. there are hundreds of MMORPS out there at the moment. So there should be something for everyones taste. (almost... )
That was not players that were online that day, but players who tried the new battlegrounds. And this has to be taken into consideration: How many players of the total populations actually tests battlegrounds the first day? probably very few. How many of the total population of SWG are online everyday and actually that particular day? How many are interested in battlegrounds at all? No crafters or entertainers goes to battleground and these classes makes up for a big number of players. So most likely, only the pvp interested people that plays combat classes that were online that day and wanted to test it immediately were counted into that number. So that means a number of 3000 is probably very decent.
I fully disagree with everything you said above and think you are just trying to find reasons to ignore the obvious.
Lets look at it.
The battlegrounds were are major content patch for swg and major content patches are always high population draws. It doesn't matter what game it is, big content patches draw players in. People even resubscribe due to content patches. You even see games suddenly have login ques on patch days like LOTRO and WoW often do. I am not saying the entire population of the game logged in, but you bet your ass a large portion did. People want to see new changes.
SWG has far more activity per player than typical mmos. Straight from soe you have 65% of the playerbase active on the forums which is leaps and bounds above other mmos. It is just as likely that you have a far higher total portion of the subscriber base logged in each night, regardless of patch. That is what happens when games population crashes and is reduced to the most dedicated fans. That is not a slam, but an observation.
Your point about crafters and entertainers is moot also. This was not a counter of CHARACTERS, it was a count of UNIQUE PLAYERS. If someone has a crafter then odds are pretty good they also have a combat character.
So that leaves us with 3,000 unique players trying brand new content. I somehow doubt the majority of the players avoided it and would go one step further to say that I bet many tried it even if they don't like pvp. Just to see something new even if only for a few moments.
Even if you go beyond the first day, it isn't like there was a rush of people using the battlegrounds on day 2 and they pretty much died soon after their release. If only a few tried it on the first day then surely there would be a swelling of people joining after the first day right?
Maybe the 3,000 does represent people just checking it out.
Imagine the game has 50,000 players (or whatever number you wish). That would mean a major content patch was only interesting enough to get 3 out of every 50 people to try it on patch day? Do you see how incredibly silly is sounds to think 47 out of 50 people ignored patch day content?
The forum claim is interesting.
Actually. The SWG forum has a counter. And it counts how many players are browing the forum as loged in at the exact same time. And that number is 51,475.
So at one given time. There has been 51.000 persons browsing that forum.
Just think about it. How many of the player base will be online browsing the forum at the exact same time of a day that has 24 hours?
SWG, unlike most games have people from all over the world at the same servers.
And even if the claim about 65% was right. I mean seriously how big percentage of that population would be online at the very same time? 10 %, 20 % .. I mean we are not talking who are logged in at the same day. But overlaps each other at the exact same time.
So that number indicates that there are several hundred thousands accounts registered and browsing SWG forums. And if only 65% .. means still 35 % left ( and that is a large number if there are 200 000 users on forum.. actually its 70 000 ).
And the brand new content here.. that is mentioned is PVP content. And while PVP in SWG is unique. A majority of the playerbase are focused on PVE. So 3000 unique players trying one pvp part of new content first day is good. And I really doubt SOE or any other company would go out and put up such a number to "glare" at as they say themselves if it had been bad.
At least I doubt that the game has so few players as some people claims. The best indication however. Is the feeling you get when you are logged in. And I played the game from November 2003 untill November 2005 .. and had some comebacks untill the one now where I discovered how good the game has become over the years.. and I can never remember to have seen that amount of people, even in more deserted places of the game. Mos Eisley boils.. and I have trouble finding the NPCs in front of the starport.
I mean.. instead of writing here and guessing this or that. Its so much better to download a trial or reactivate the account and actually see for yourself. I did that.. I was sure I would meet a dead game. I mean reading these forums over the year made me belive SWG was a corpse getting electro shock by SOE to try to get its heart beating again. What I found was a community and people playing and enjoying a game in a scale that instantly reminded me of the best Days before NGE.
The OP is absolutely right. SWG is the best sandbox game out there. And if you are one that have never tried a sandbox game before. Do not let these forums scare you away from trying it. The best ways to find out about a game is not by listening to others but actually try it yourself. Only you as a person can know what you like. And if you do not like it, then try another game.. there are hundreds of MMORPS out there at the moment. So there should be something for everyones taste. (almost... )
The forum claim of 51k+ users was over two years ago. This also counts unregistered (guests) users, which does not mean that those users were also subscribers. Since then, SWG has had 12 servers close and most of the remaining servers have low population issues. Take a look at the forum today.....at this very moment there are 323 registered users and 719 guests. Go ahead and spin the 1,042 number of on-line forum users to any number you wish. The closed and dying servers tells the truth better than any estimate you can contrive.
If people really want to experience SWG for themselves, then by all means they should try the free game trial first before investing any money into it.
I've been on the most populated server, I have been on near the lowest of the servers, currently. The Transfer From servers might have had up to 5 folks on in peak time before they were closed.
From my eyes and search, there are fewer than 10k subs at best(probably around 7k IMO). This is truly sad as there is so much more content and features to SWG today then in the past. It is also much better functioning version of SWG than has been had in years. I am not endorsing that its a better type of game post-NGE, but a much better bug free version.
To vets that don't care about hating on this game or SOE, there is a way to key map the game in a much more friendly format. I started with a straight map back to Pre-CU/NGE then modified it toward better function using NGE fuctions. You can move with Right Mouse and fire from the Keyboard. For me its one of the dumbest pushes to drown the old game by not supporting a key set that is familiar to veterians. I offer this only to let other know this is a playable game and not the total bork that is represented typically here.
The forum claim is interesting Actually. The SWG forum has a counter. And it counts how many players are browing the forum as loged in at the exact same time. And that number is 51,475. So at one given time. There has been 51.000 persons browsing that forum. Just think about it. How many of the player base will be online browsing the forum at the exact same time of a day that has 24 hours?
The forum claim of 51k+ users was over two years ago. This also counts unregistered (guests) users, which does not mean that those users were also subscribers. Since then, SWG has had 12 servers close and most of the remaining servers have low population issues. Take a look at the forum today.....at this very moment there are 323 registered users and 719 guests. Go ahead and spin the 1,042 number of on-line forum users to any number you wish. The closed and dying servers tells the truth better than any estimate you can contrive.
If people really want to experience SWG for themselves, then by all means they should try the free game trial first before investing any money into it.
I am logged in over there right now. Haven't been a subscriber for years so I can't post anything, but my login still functions so I am counted as a "registered user" and my user name is listed on the page. So you can't even count all of the "registered" users on the forum as current players.
The forum claim is interesting Actually. The SWG forum has a counter. And it counts how many players are browing the forum as loged in at the exact same time. And that number is 51,475. So at one given time. There has been 51.000 persons browsing that forum. Just think about it. How many of the player base will be online browsing the forum at the exact same time of a day that has 24 hours?
The forum claim of 51k+ users was over two years ago. This also counts unregistered (guests) users, which does not mean that those users were also subscribers. Since then, SWG has had 12 servers close and most of the remaining servers have low population issues. Take a look at the forum today.....at this very moment there are 323 registered users and 719 guests. Go ahead and spin the 1,042 number of on-line forum users to any number you wish. The closed and dying servers tells the truth better than any estimate you can contrive.
If people really want to experience SWG for themselves, then by all means they should try the free game trial first before investing any money into it.
I am logged in over there right now. Haven't been a subscriber for years so I can't post anything, but my login still functions so I am counted as a "registered user" and my user name is listed on the page. So you can't even count all of the "registered" users on the forum as current players.
The 51K number was he result of the SOE testing their forums. EQ2 had an overly large number (over 150K) when the same tests were ran on those forums about a month later.
Comments
Read this.
Let me know when you get to this quote:
LUCAS: "I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions."
That is why Ryloth has two different discriptions. The EU world is a geo centric world that does not turn on its axis. This causes it to have frozen barren dark side and a molten flare ripped sunny side. The Twi-leks exist in the narrow band (mostly underground) that exists in between the two sides as a twilight zone.
In the Clone Wars animated series, its another world with barren wastes and vegitation like any other habital planet. This is what George imagined.
Which sounds more interesting?
And things like that change all the time in Sci-Fi. Look at Star Trek for a moment, namely lets bring up what happen in Star Trek 6 with the Klingon homeworld of Qo'noS. Remember the movie stated that the Moon Praxis blew to kingdom come and that the Klingon homeworld only had 50 years of air left?
Next Generation however, everything is just fine with Qo'noS. Granted at that point Next Generation had been on the air for a few years. But all of that is never really talked about... Point is things can change overnight at times with Sci-Fi, hell how many times did the plot of the X-Files change? Babylon 5 made an art out of things changing overnight. Any content can and chances are will be changed.
And I should point out that Ryloth was shown a number of times in EU content BEFORE Clone Wars as being a barren world. Some of the Dark Horse Comics showed Ryloth in that way, I believe the first one was right after the Knights of the Old Republic Sith War/Exar Kun run. Empire at War had Ryloth as a barren world. Again Pre-Clone Wars...
Now here's the thing with EU content...
Lucas still over all has a say in what go's in and what happens when it comes to EU content. He was the one who said yes to Chewwie being killed in the first book of New Jedi Order. One of the first big Star Wars books, Heir to the Empire had a few fun facts behind it. It was the first book that gave the name of the Imperial homeworld if you will Coruscant. Joruus C'baoth was going to be a mad clone of Obi-Wan till Lucas nixed that idea.
I do remember reading too that Lucas did have to give his yay or nay with a number of things as well. Allowing some of the plot and content in a number of EU games like the X-Wing/TIE Fighter line, the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight line. Some of the comic books I've read he has had a say in, mostly when Dark Horse took over as Marvel did some well insane things... Don't forget that Shadows of the Empire and Force Unleashed are "canon" hell Lucas even gave a ton of input into Force Unleashed.
And yeah the Zombie Stormtroopers in Death Troopers? Not the first time they have had Zombies in Star Wars.
One of the Pre-Cartoon Clone Wars Comics had Skywalker and Obi-Wan fighting undead Gungan's on Rori with two other Jedi's and an ARC Trooper named Alpha. There was a Comic with Han and Chewwie fighting undead on a planet. Now want to hear the real kicker that many of you will hate? Zombies for the most part do fit in with Star Wars!
I forget where I saw it but there was something about the Sith being able to make what we could call a Zombie. More like the Voodoo Zombie that is a true real life thing. Some of the Zombie Movies out there sometimes deal with whatever made the Zombies was something the Military was screwing around with that got out of control. Wouldn't come as a big shocker if the Empire did try to do something along those lines. Hell one of my friends put it great back when Dark Horse started doing the Star Wars Comics, when are they going to make a Star Wars vs Aliens? He put it best the Empire would screw around with the Aliens if they really believed they could make some kinda weapon out of them.
Kinda like how some Zombie movies or books are... Point is, Zombies for the most part can be seen in a Sci-Fi light, better still the idea behind a Zombie in Star Wars fits as well. And chances are Lucas did have to say yes or no to it...
The point of this is to point out that canon like I said can change in a heartbeat. And Lucas does have somewhat of a say with what go's into Star Wars...
Still if you really just want to say SWG should have gone along with the movies... Well really there wouldn't have been much of a game.
You are 100% right.
SWG as is today is the best sandbox there is.
It was a total disaster the day after NGE hit.. and kept being that for months but as it stands today it is a solid game and one of the last sandbox games that we will probably see for a very long time.
I have said in several other threads (most of them swarmed with hate from bitter vets that do not even bother to see what the game has become) that the game that I loved, then hated, then returned to is a enjoyable experience today. Crafting system in SWG still shines in my book as unbeaten. And people that say that crafting is pointless and destroyed is wrong.
I was a tailor in Vanilla SWG and I am a tailor now and I have just as fun today as I had back then.
SOE has by several people (even SMED) in several ways for several years admitted that they did a mistake with NGE. And they have worked as best as they can to fix lots of the issues. This will be denied by the same gang of angry vets forever. But if you have a mindset that are able to put behind anger and frustration and look what the game is today you will see that its a lot more sandbox than the day after NGE and its more sandbox than any games out there.
The game deserves to be supported because if this game does, its a signal that people want to have games with advanced crafting system, with player cities, with housing, with things that many pew pew players think are just pointless fluff but is important for RP players and so on.
And yes.. the storyteller and player quest system is pretty damn good!
After server merge.. while obviously less servers than before.. many places feels like vanilla SWG as there are more people there and more people = more fun. Because at the end of the day what makes or breaks you MMORPG experience is the guild / community.
You are 100% right.
Uh...guys? "...Pull it back from the abyss"? Maybe you missed it, but they closed half their servers yesterday. How is that pulling it back?!?!...kinda reminds me of how successful the stimulus bills have been (that's sarcasm).
We seem to have two COMPLETELY different ideas of how "success" is measured these days...that or my dream where I was naked chasing after Miley Cyrus's tour bus in the rain and stumbled into the storm drain vortex that took me to an alternate reality was real...either way, SoE hasn't exactly "turned it around" yet - subscriber #'s are dropping faster than Obama's approval ratings.
A busy transfer to server doesn't = successful game. I'm going to guess you're both on Starsider now too right? Measuring how well a game is doing after server closures/mergers gives you a very skewed result guys. Sure...populations are up on several servers...but overall, they are down.
And Wildcat has the best reply on why SWG isn't a true "sandbox" any longer. It WAS...but it's not now. There are elements, but any game that gives you a choice would also arguably have some element of a sandbox. To claim that the current SWG is the best just seems odd to me.
It was a total disaster the day after NGE hit.. and kept being that for months but as it stands today it is a solid game and one of the last sandbox games that we will probably see for a very long time.
I have said in several other threads (most of them swarmed with hate from bitter vets that do not even bother to see what the game has become) that the game that I loved, then hated, then returned to is a enjoyable experience today. Crafting system in SWG still shines in my book as unbeaten. And people that say that crafting is pointless and destroyed is wrong.
I was a tailor in Vanilla SWG and I am a tailor now and I have just as fun today as I had back then.
SOE has by several people (even SMED) in several ways for several years admitted that they did a mistake with NGE. And they have worked as best as they can to fix lots of the issues. This will be denied by the same gang of angry vets forever. But if you have a mindset that are able to put behind anger and frustration and look what the game is today you will see that its a lot more sandbox than the day after NGE and its more sandbox than any games out there.
The game deserves to be supported because if this game does, its a signal that people want to have games with advanced crafting system, with player cities, with housing, with things that many pew pew players think are just pointless fluff but is important for RP players and so on.
Blah... blah... blah.
A few things that boosters of the currently played game, in its current form, can not get by:
1. If SWG were any good, more people than the last 10-20k holdouts would play it, they dont.
2. If SWG were any good or had any future, there would have been at least 1 expansion in the last 4 years, there hasn't been.
3. If SOE gave a crap about SWG, there would be more than the skeleton crew Dev team and the "lead" devs would not keep jumping ship.
4. If SOE gave a crap about SWG, there would advertise it, somewhere, anywhere... they don't.
5. If SWG was not terrible, compared to what it once was, what it is now, and compared to other MMOs on the market, NOTHING we "Hate-filled, disgruntled vets" said would make any difference, but the game IS that bad, so people don't play.
By your failed logic, people should pay to play a bad game, and reward the wreckers of a good game, just for the chance that some sandbox game down the line will be made that is not bad? Huh?
If Smed and SOE gave crap about the "mistake" they made with NGE, they'd have put up a classic server by now as a way of making it up to their customers. But they haven't and don't give a crap. Customers, all customers, are disposable to them. And that includes you. Different SOE employees have openly mocked SWG customers several times in the past and there's nothing like the internet to keep something around forever.
Don't think we vets don't know how the current game is? SOE has thrown around enough vet trials, begging to get subs back, that we know very well how the game is. And the current game, despite all the new shiny grind systems they try to foist off on people as "content", is still bad.
It was a total disaster the day after NGE hit.. and kept being that for months but as it stands today it is a solid game and one of the last sandbox games that we will probably see for a very long time.
I have said in several other threads (most of them swarmed with hate from bitter vets that do not even bother to see what the game has become) that the game that I loved, then hated, then returned to is a enjoyable experience today. Crafting system in SWG still shines in my book as unbeaten. And people that say that crafting is pointless and destroyed is wrong.
I was a tailor in Vanilla SWG and I am a tailor now and I have just as fun today as I had back then.
SOE has by several people (even SMED) in several ways for several years admitted that they did a mistake with NGE. And they have worked as best as they can to fix lots of the issues. This will be denied by the same gang of angry vets forever. But if you have a mindset that are able to put behind anger and frustration and look what the game is today you will see that its a lot more sandbox than the day after NGE and its more sandbox than any games out there.
The game deserves to be supported because if this game does, its a signal that people want to have games with advanced crafting system, with player cities, with housing, with things that many pew pew players think are just pointless fluff but is important for RP players and so on.
Blah... blah... blah.
A few things that boosters of the currently played game, in its current form, can not get by:
1. If SWG were any good, more people than the last 10-20k holdouts would play it, they dont.
2. If SWG were any good or had any future, there would have been at least 1 expansion in the last 4 years, there hasn't been.
3. If SOE gave a crap about SWG, there would be more than the skeleton crew Dev team and the "lead" devs would not keep jumping ship.
4. If SOE gave a crap about SWG, there would advertise it, somewhere, anywhere... they don't.
5. If SWG was not terrible, compared to what it once was, what it is now, and compared to other MMOs on the market, NOTHING we "Hate-filled, disgruntled vets" said would make any difference, but the game IS that bad, so people don't play.
By your failed logic, people should pay to play a bad game, and reward the wreckers of a good game, just for the chance that some sandbox game down the line will be made that is not bad? Huh?
If Smed and SOE gave crap about the "mistake" they made with NGE, they'd have put up a classic server by now as a way of making it up to their customers. But they haven't and don't give a crap. Customers, all customers, are disposable to them. And that includes you. Different SOE employees have openly mocked SWG customers several times in the past and there's nothing like the internet to keep something around forever.
Don't think we vets don't know how the current game is? SOE has thrown around enough vet trials, begging to get subs back, that we know very well how the game is. And the current game, despite all the new shiny grind systems they try to foist off on people as "content", is still bad.
Well, as a current player who enjoys the game, all I can say is that I understand why people who left because of the NGE don't like it. If it hadn't been for the space part of the game, I would have done the same. However, the game today is vastly different, and improved, from the first months of the NGE. That may not mean much to you, or others, but I view the game is it is right now, not as it once was.
In response to your numbered statements:
1) I think your sub numbers are a bit on the low side, but while I can't disagree with your sentiment, swg gets, in my mind, a bad rap and the subs probably suffer for it.
2) I disagree. Expansions do not equate a "popular" game and SWG has gotten many updates over the last two years that have content equal to many other games' espansions.
3) I think that's more a business decision than anything else. I assume that the profits to SWG are tied into the station pass, as such there's no real way to judge just how big a "PIE" it is for SOE.
4) I completely agree with you.
5) I have to say this is a "squeaky wheel gets the oil" scenario. The disallusioned vets are very vocal, while the people who enjoy the game actually play it and therefore aren't heard as often.
Anything would look improved to the condition of swg in nov 2005. Comparing swg four years later to nov 2005 is not much of a comparison.
1) Check for yourself 3,000 unique players on a patch day?
2) Expansions make money for a company, but they require a large enough playerbase to purchase them. SWG has not had enough players to justify funding an expansion since Nov 2005. That and that alone is why swg does not get paid expansions. Also saying swg has had updates equal to other games expansions is beyond stretching of a the truth. What update has swg gotten that is as large as any other game expansion? I think this statement can be easily disproven regardless of any content pathced soe has released since 2005.
5) there are millions and millions and millions of players who entered the mmo market after the nge. There is no way some angry players are dissuading that many people from trying or playing the game. A few angry posters cannot scare away that many people. Just look at how people on this site bash on wow, but look at its success. If what you say is true the same should apply, but obviously it doesn't.
Anything would look improved to the condition of swg in nov 2005. Comparing swg four years later to nov 2005 is not much of a comparison.
1) Check for yourself 3,000 unique players on a patch day?
2) Expansions make money for a company, but they require a large enough playerbase to purchase them. SWG has not had enough players to justify funding an expansion since Nov 2005. That and that alone is why swg does not get paid expansions. Also saying swg has had updates equal to other games expansions is beyond stretching of a the truth. What update has swg gotten that is as large as any other game expansion? I think this statement can be easily disproven regardless of any content pathced soe has released since 2005.
5) there are millions and millions and millions of players who entered the mmo market after the nge. There is no way some angry players are dissuading that many people from trying or playing the game. A few angry posters cannot scare away that many people. Just look at how people on this site bash on wow, but look at its success. If what you say is true the same should apply, but obviously it doesn't.
That was not players that were online that day, but players who tried the new battlegrounds.
And this has to be taken into consideration:
How many players of the total populations actually tests battlegrounds the first day? probably very few.
How many of the total population of SWG are online everyday and actually that particular day?
How many are interested in battlegrounds at all?
No crafters or entertainers goes to battleground and these classes makes up for a big number of players.
So most likely, only the pvp interested people that plays combat classes that were online that day and wanted to test it immediately were counted into that number. So that means a number of 3000 is probably very decent.
Anything would look improved to the condition of swg in nov 2005. Comparing swg four years later to nov 2005 is not much of a comparison.
1) Check for yourself 3,000 unique players on a patch day?
2) Expansions make money for a company, but they require a large enough playerbase to purchase them. SWG has not had enough players to justify funding an expansion since Nov 2005. That and that alone is why swg does not get paid expansions. Also saying swg has had updates equal to other games expansions is beyond stretching of a the truth. What update has swg gotten that is as large as any other game expansion? I think this statement can be easily disproven regardless of any content pathced soe has released since 2005.
5) there are millions and millions and millions of players who entered the mmo market after the nge. There is no way some angry players are dissuading that many people from trying or playing the game. A few angry posters cannot scare away that many people. Just look at how people on this site bash on wow, but look at its success. If what you say is true the same should apply, but obviously it doesn't.
Not gotten jump to far into this but i will say that SWG still has alittle bit of a chance to survive. That being said I think the number one turn off is its suppose to be a galaxy at war with the rebellion and Empire fighting hot and heavy and thats not really displayed to well in the game. If the GCW revamp happens and turns out to be something like they were talking about I honestly believe that the game could have a new life support line hooked up and it would bring in new and old players. The game itself isnt all that bad. Granted its nothing like its former self but the NGE itself as it stands today is a fairly good game as does have a nice open world with a sandbox feeling to it.. Personally i think that if the GCW update doesnt go over well the game is dead. The subs will fall below what SOE/LA finds acceptable.
As far as your number 5. Well i can only say i know alot of ppl that have never tried it along with some older vets that havent been back since NGE that due to what ppl or websites say willnot try it. Real life friends i have wont touch it from reviews that they have seen both on this website and other places. Some vets i know wont touch it due to the betrayal they still feel to this day of having their game stolen away. While i cant blame either I do believe the game is worth trying and provided you find the right helpful pl or guild ingame it can be very enjoyable. But to tell the truth thats just something that you have to do on your own and many wont even touch it due to bad press about SOE and SWG. Hell i have a friend that wont touch a SOE game whether it looks great or not due to them changing to CU then to NGE.
Its still got some sandbox to it and you never know what your gonna like til you try it.
I fully disagree with everything you said above and think you are just trying to find reasons to ignore the obvious.
Lets look at it.
The battlegrounds were are major content patch for swg and major content patches are always high population draws. It doesn't matter what game it is, big content patches draw players in. People even resubscribe due to content patches. You even see games suddenly have login ques on patch days like LOTRO and WoW often do. I am not saying the entire population of the game logged in, but you bet your ass a large portion did. People want to see new changes.
SWG has far more activity per player than typical mmos. Straight from soe you have 65% of the playerbase active on the forums which is leaps and bounds above other mmos. It is just as likely that you have a far higher total portion of the subscriber base logged in each night, regardless of patch. That is what happens when games population crashes and is reduced to the most dedicated fans. That is not a slam, but an observation.
Your point about crafters and entertainers is moot also. This was not a counter of CHARACTERS, it was a count of UNIQUE PLAYERS. If someone has a crafter then odds are pretty good they also have a combat character.
So that leaves us with 3,000 unique players trying brand new content. I somehow doubt the majority of the players avoided it and would go one step further to say that I bet many tried it even if they don't like pvp. Just to see something new even if only for a few moments.
Even if you go beyond the first day, it isn't like there was a rush of people using the battlegrounds on day 2 and they pretty much died soon after their release. If only a few tried it on the first day then surely there would be a swelling of people joining after the first day right?
Maybe the 3,000 does represent people just checking it out.
Imagine the game has 50,000 players (or whatever number you wish). That would mean a major content patch was only interesting enough to get 3 out of every 50 people to try it on patch day? Do you see how incredibly silly is sounds to think 47 out of 50 people ignored patch day content?
I fully disagree with everything you said above and think you are just trying to find reasons to ignore the obvious.
Lets look at it.
The battlegrounds were are major content patch for swg and major content patches are always high population draws. It doesn't matter what game it is, big content patches draw players in. People even resubscribe due to content patches. You even see games suddenly have login ques on patch days like LOTRO and WoW often do. I am not saying the entire population of the game logged in, but you bet your ass a large portion did. People want to see new changes.
SWG has far more activity per player than typical mmos. Straight from soe you have 65% of the playerbase active on the forums which is leaps and bounds above other mmos. It is just as likely that you have a far higher total portion of the subscriber base logged in each night, regardless of patch. That is what happens when games population crashes and is reduced to the most dedicated fans. That is not a slam, but an observation.
Your point about crafters and entertainers is moot also. This was not a counter of CHARACTERS, it was a count of UNIQUE PLAYERS. If someone has a crafter then odds are pretty good they also have a combat character.
So that leaves us with 3,000 unique players trying brand new content. I somehow doubt the majority of the players avoided it and would go one step further to say that I bet many tried it even if they don't like pvp. Just to see something new even if only for a few moments.
Even if you go beyond the first day, it isn't like there was a rush of people using the battlegrounds on day 2 and they pretty much died soon after their release. If only a few tried it on the first day then surely there would be a swelling of people joining after the first day right?
Maybe the 3,000 does represent people just checking it out.
Imagine the game has 50,000 players (or whatever number you wish). That would mean a major content patch was only interesting enough to get 3 out of every 50 people to try it on patch day? Do you see how incredibly silly is sounds to think 47 out of 50 people ignored patch day content?
The forum claim is interesting.
Actually. The SWG forum has a counter. And it counts how many players are browing the forum as loged in at the exact same time. And that number is 51,475.
So at one given time. There has been 51.000 persons browsing that forum.
Just think about it. How many of the player base will be online browsing the forum at the exact same time of a day that has 24 hours?
SWG, unlike most games have people from all over the world at the same servers.
And even if the claim about 65% was right. I mean seriously how big percentage of that population would be online at the very same time? 10 %, 20 % .. I mean we are not talking who are logged in at the same day. But overlaps each other at the exact same time.
So that number indicates that there are several hundred thousands accounts registered and browsing SWG forums. And if only 65% .. means still 35 % left ( and that is a large number if there are 200 000 users on forum.. actually its 70 000 ).
And the brand new content here.. that is mentioned is PVP content. And while PVP in SWG is unique. A majority of the playerbase are focused on PVE. So 3000 unique players trying one pvp part of new content first day is good. And I really doubt SOE or any other company would go out and put up such a number to "glare" at as they say themselves if it had been bad.
At least I doubt that the game has so few players as some people claims. The best indication however. Is the feeling you get when you are logged in. And I played the game from November 2003 untill November 2005 .. and had some comebacks untill the one now where I discovered how good the game has become over the years.. and I can never remember to have seen that amount of people, even in more deserted places of the game. Mos Eisley boils.. and I have trouble finding the NPCs in front of the starport.
I mean.. instead of writing here and guessing this or that. Its so much better to download a trial or reactivate the account and actually see for yourself. I did that.. I was sure I would meet a dead game. I mean reading these forums over the year made me belive SWG was a corpse getting electro shock by SOE to try to get its heart beating again. What I found was a community and people playing and enjoying a game in a scale that instantly reminded me of the best Days before NGE.
The OP is absolutely right. SWG is the best sandbox game out there. And if you are one that have never tried a sandbox game before. Do not let these forums scare you away from trying it. The best ways to find out about a game is not by listening to others but actually try it yourself. Only you as a person can know what you like. And if you do not like it, then try another game.. there are hundreds of MMORPS out there at the moment. So there should be something for everyones taste. (almost... )
I fully disagree with everything you said above and think you are just trying to find reasons to ignore the obvious.
Lets look at it.
The battlegrounds were are major content patch for swg and major content patches are always high population draws. It doesn't matter what game it is, big content patches draw players in. People even resubscribe due to content patches. You even see games suddenly have login ques on patch days like LOTRO and WoW often do. I am not saying the entire population of the game logged in, but you bet your ass a large portion did. People want to see new changes.
SWG has far more activity per player than typical mmos. Straight from soe you have 65% of the playerbase active on the forums which is leaps and bounds above other mmos. It is just as likely that you have a far higher total portion of the subscriber base logged in each night, regardless of patch. That is what happens when games population crashes and is reduced to the most dedicated fans. That is not a slam, but an observation.
Your point about crafters and entertainers is moot also. This was not a counter of CHARACTERS, it was a count of UNIQUE PLAYERS. If someone has a crafter then odds are pretty good they also have a combat character.
So that leaves us with 3,000 unique players trying brand new content. I somehow doubt the majority of the players avoided it and would go one step further to say that I bet many tried it even if they don't like pvp. Just to see something new even if only for a few moments.
Even if you go beyond the first day, it isn't like there was a rush of people using the battlegrounds on day 2 and they pretty much died soon after their release. If only a few tried it on the first day then surely there would be a swelling of people joining after the first day right?
Maybe the 3,000 does represent people just checking it out.
Imagine the game has 50,000 players (or whatever number you wish). That would mean a major content patch was only interesting enough to get 3 out of every 50 people to try it on patch day? Do you see how incredibly silly is sounds to think 47 out of 50 people ignored patch day content?
The forum claim is interesting.
Actually. The SWG forum has a counter. And it counts how many players are browing the forum as loged in at the exact same time. And that number is 51,475.
So at one given time. There has been 51.000 persons browsing that forum.
Just think about it. How many of the player base will be online browsing the forum at the exact same time of a day that has 24 hours?
SWG, unlike most games have people from all over the world at the same servers.
And even if the claim about 65% was right. I mean seriously how big percentage of that population would be online at the very same time? 10 %, 20 % .. I mean we are not talking who are logged in at the same day. But overlaps each other at the exact same time.
So that number indicates that there are several hundred thousands accounts registered and browsing SWG forums. And if only 65% .. means still 35 % left ( and that is a large number if there are 200 000 users on forum.. actually its 70 000 ).
And the brand new content here.. that is mentioned is PVP content. And while PVP in SWG is unique. A majority of the playerbase are focused on PVE. So 3000 unique players trying one pvp part of new content first day is good. And I really doubt SOE or any other company would go out and put up such a number to "glare" at as they say themselves if it had been bad.
At least I doubt that the game has so few players as some people claims. The best indication however. Is the feeling you get when you are logged in. And I played the game from November 2003 untill November 2005 .. and had some comebacks untill the one now where I discovered how good the game has become over the years.. and I can never remember to have seen that amount of people, even in more deserted places of the game. Mos Eisley boils.. and I have trouble finding the NPCs in front of the starport.
I mean.. instead of writing here and guessing this or that. Its so much better to download a trial or reactivate the account and actually see for yourself. I did that.. I was sure I would meet a dead game. I mean reading these forums over the year made me belive SWG was a corpse getting electro shock by SOE to try to get its heart beating again. What I found was a community and people playing and enjoying a game in a scale that instantly reminded me of the best Days before NGE.
The OP is absolutely right. SWG is the best sandbox game out there. And if you are one that have never tried a sandbox game before. Do not let these forums scare you away from trying it. The best ways to find out about a game is not by listening to others but actually try it yourself. Only you as a person can know what you like. And if you do not like it, then try another game.. there are hundreds of MMORPS out there at the moment. So there should be something for everyones taste. (almost... )
The forum claim of 51k+ users was over two years ago. This also counts unregistered (guests) users, which does not mean that those users were also subscribers. Since then, SWG has had 12 servers close and most of the remaining servers have low population issues. Take a look at the forum today.....at this very moment there are 323 registered users and 719 guests. Go ahead and spin the 1,042 number of on-line forum users to any number you wish. The closed and dying servers tells the truth better than any estimate you can contrive.
If people really want to experience SWG for themselves, then by all means they should try the free game trial first before investing any money into it.
I've been on the most populated server, I have been on near the lowest of the servers, currently. The Transfer From servers might have had up to 5 folks on in peak time before they were closed.
From my eyes and search, there are fewer than 10k subs at best(probably around 7k IMO). This is truly sad as there is so much more content and features to SWG today then in the past. It is also much better functioning version of SWG than has been had in years. I am not endorsing that its a better type of game post-NGE, but a much better bug free version.
To vets that don't care about hating on this game or SOE, there is a way to key map the game in a much more friendly format. I started with a straight map back to Pre-CU/NGE then modified it toward better function using NGE fuctions. You can move with Right Mouse and fire from the Keyboard. For me its one of the dumbest pushes to drown the old game by not supporting a key set that is familiar to veterians. I offer this only to let other know this is a playable game and not the total bork that is represented typically here.
The forum claim of 51k+ users was over two years ago. This also counts unregistered (guests) users, which does not mean that those users were also subscribers. Since then, SWG has had 12 servers close and most of the remaining servers have low population issues. Take a look at the forum today.....at this very moment there are 323 registered users and 719 guests. Go ahead and spin the 1,042 number of on-line forum users to any number you wish. The closed and dying servers tells the truth better than any estimate you can contrive.
If people really want to experience SWG for themselves, then by all means they should try the free game trial first before investing any money into it.
I am logged in over there right now. Haven't been a subscriber for years so I can't post anything, but my login still functions so I am counted as a "registered user" and my user name is listed on the page. So you can't even count all of the "registered" users on the forum as current players.
The forum claim of 51k+ users was over two years ago. This also counts unregistered (guests) users, which does not mean that those users were also subscribers. Since then, SWG has had 12 servers close and most of the remaining servers have low population issues. Take a look at the forum today.....at this very moment there are 323 registered users and 719 guests. Go ahead and spin the 1,042 number of on-line forum users to any number you wish. The closed and dying servers tells the truth better than any estimate you can contrive.
If people really want to experience SWG for themselves, then by all means they should try the free game trial first before investing any money into it.
I am logged in over there right now. Haven't been a subscriber for years so I can't post anything, but my login still functions so I am counted as a "registered user" and my user name is listed on the page. So you can't even count all of the "registered" users on the forum as current players.
The 51K number was he result of the SOE testing their forums. EQ2 had an overly large number (over 150K) when the same tests were ran on those forums about a month later.
forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m
A thread from that day (mentioning the OBoards were having problems that day.