Call me old school, but microtransactions of any sort are a deal breaker for me.
And it has nothing to do with money.
I'm inclined to agree with the above statement - give me standard monthly subscriptions with no hidden extra charges - the developers can budget for their development costs and I can budget for my outlay.
If they insist on sticking their toe in the micro transactions quagmire then offer two methods of payment :-
1. Full monthly subscription that covers EVERYTHING in game with no extra charges at all.
2. Micro transactions with a reduced (or absent) monthly subscription for those who want to control their outlay for features they deem superfluous to their needs.
DEFINITION OF REALITY: Graphics ok, Sound ok, Gold drops need more work...
Those of you who refuse to even try microtransaction games are going to run out of any new titles to play in the very near future. The RMT model is the future of MMORPGs and will eventually overtake all other payment models. I don't see why this is such a big deal for people as long as the items in the store do not have a big effect on the gameplay. Who cares if someone buys a silly cosmetic upgrade or even a minor XP boosting potion from a cash shop? That is not going to imbalance the game against players who do not purchase those items. If done responsibly, as the OP suggests, MTs are not so bad.
They won't be done responsibly. Not enough money in that.
I question the motives of posters who are trying to convince us that cash shops are just fine.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
My stance on this is impartial. I will pay $15 per month, I would pay nothing per month, I would pay $20 per month, if they offer it I’ll pay for a year, or I may even consider a life time. It really maters little to me. What does mater is if the game is fun, and whether I can play it as much as I want. I feel when I invest $15 a month that should cover everything. If they wanna raise the price to $20, again risky, but that depends on the quality of the game. Payment plans IE, 3 months, 6 months, life time, are completely acceptable. Free, I don't like, I know GW did it. But to "me" GW is not quality for many reasons, reasons I don't care to explain. I feel safer paying 15/m knowing my money is going to the company and for the betterment in developing the game. The problem I see with this game though is that it is based on huge IP (possibly one of the biggest), that reaches outside just the everyday gamers, as well as the everyday MMO players. I see some of the same things happening with TOR like what I saw with SWG. Lots of people who would want to try it, but can’t because A) PC specs are too high, or You have to pay to play it. BioWare recognizes (A) and has made it clear that they also believe the game should run on a wide range of systems. So how will they handle (B)? Give players many options? You hit the nail on the head about A. I'm down for B. But how are you suggesting they do it? Without creating mass differences between the payment method. Reaching out to the market with other payment methods is not a bad idea, at the same time you don't wanna take a risk and offer a method of gathering gear through strait cash. People play MMOs for enjoyment, many play it to be competitive, a lot of those players feel skill should be rewarded, being one of those, I can say paying for in game items is not skillful, enjoyable or competitive. Heavy RMTs are not evil, but it's not right, not for ToR. It would destroy this game. If the game has an RMT system that offers Gear, I'm out, my money will go else where. Offering fluff items, like speeders, ships and goofy ass non combat pets is fine, as long as it doesn't become the main direction of those updates in that area. Meaning I don't wanna see the items being fed to a cash shop, I want the game to be updated to, where players (underlined because if anybody has to pay for items, their not a player/gamer their sad) will have access to new and exciting fluff items. They aren’t just making this game for MMO veterans, the only way to improve numbers is to bring new folks in. (Remember the discussion of “the mmo industry is this big, no it’s really this big”) Again, expect something new. I expect something new. I expect this "new" to be something WORTH my 15/m. I don't get how you can be ok with thinking a new payment method should be the appeal. That's crazy shit man, they had me at creating an involving story, the IP, and the era it takes place in. I'm not using a veterans perspective, I'm using the perspective of a gamer of all platforms and genres. So the easiest way for ToR to reach out to those other people, make the game WORTH 15/m, screw these pathetic gimmicks.
Back in 2003 when SWG was launched I remember reading my Local 501st forums and someone made a thread about SWG. Most people said, I want to play, but my computer can’t handle it, or it costs money to play it and I’m not paying to play it.
I can't answer this without being an asshole, get a damn job. If you're a kid, go mow lawns, shovel some snow, ask for chores to compensate the 15/m. I see no need to try and appeal to lazy people. People that won't pay to play, lol, so? I was one of them, paying money to play a game went against everything I believed in enjoying a game. But if the game offers quality people will come around. If they don't, who cares. A heavy RMT wil do nothing more then piss off your current 15/m players. This highly depends on the RMT offers, as I have said. More evidence points to an alternate payment method being an option when you go back and figure out how to fix the KOTOR fan issue. These are folks who are very displeased over this being an MMO, they will need to get these folks on board as well, we can already see a few ways in which they are doing this with TOR. So what if say you could buy the box and say play parts of the game free? Play parts of the game free, brilliant! Buying your way to the top, ToR can go to hell if that's the case. Yes I'm a biased asshole when it comes to RMTs. I think they are a pathetic greedy system used to reach out to the lazy people that can't play a game due to lack of skill. And I could care less if anybody is insulted by this. If you can name "one" logical reason why people that use RMTs should have access to the same equipment that people gathered through dedication and skill, I'll retract what I said about it. I don't even wanna hear "well people don't have time". That's nothing but BS. I know people that progress through WoW, a game with no game changing RMTs, that have almost a full set of T8 with only 3 hours a day to play. All ToR has to do is give an IN GAME option to obtain these sorts of things. I also would like you to explain about the buying and playing parts for free would work out, I want your idea. And if/how RMT will work in this area. 5 dollars to unlock a dungeon, does it stay for good, goes away after some time?
Edit: Let me be more specific on what I'm saying so there is no mass confusion about my motives here. I plan to play ToR, I acknowledge this rumor in the ToS does not specifically mean this will be a cash shop of any sort. At the same time, BioWare is considering "all" payment methods currently. RMT is a form of just that. This is all opinion, I respect yours. I admit I'm biased towards RMTs. I will stomach certain fluff in RMTs.
I will not speak for anybody else, I will represent myself. Specifically what I believe is, "if" BioWare consideres a gear based RMT I will not play, no matter how excellent the game may be. I love to be competitive in an MMO (PvP) and part of being a true compatitive player is to "earn" your way up, not to buy your status. No I'm not a hardcore player, I'm semi casual (whatever the hell that is). My arguement with you is not a hate on ToR, if anything I have supported the game since day one, and will continue to do so depending on the directions BioWare takes it. If BioWare implements a gear based RMT I will not hate/bash the game. I will respectfully go my own way.
And to further clarify, no Tilla I'm not bashing you "at all".
They have allready stated the game WILL have micro transactions and the items bought can be found in game. so this is not news.
LA debunked that, it was on Kotaku a few months ago. They claimed it as a rumor but neve denied it either, but it remains still just that a rumor.
Shit you are right. I knew that too for some reason, i had that f2p micro transaction discussion still in my head when i remember it being debunked. sorry MikeB, proceed.
"Handled responsibly would you be willing to play Star Wars: The Old Republic with the inclusion of microtransactions". Absolutely not. Microtransations no pasaran!
I'm willing to bet MT bring in more money than sub-based. You reach more people and out of that you will get more that spend a few bucks here and there to get above someone else. The companies that are going MT know that human nature is competitive and that people will more than likely spend to "out do" others.
I see the arugment on both sides. These companies are in it to make money. If MT's get them more then that is what they are going to do. I see it coming for all MMO's in the future. So get used to it or don't play. I won't be.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
In-game shops, no matter what, are never a good idea. Because it'll start with fluff and then expand to actual useable items just to ramp up revenue...5 points for a cute pet or 5pts for an armor piece; and getting the entire armor set will equate to say $10.00 USD worth of points....on top of the monthly fee that will probably be in place.
Not one to go around saying this but...anyone who backs the concept of Money -> In-game Items is an idiot. Once you open the MT-Door it's very hard to close it and eventually you'll be back here (any forum) complaining about how it's so hard to compete in X-game because the MT is allowing characters to buy OP gear and you can't afford it.
Knew it was to good to be true; a non-fucked up Star Wars game....
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
This will probably keep me away at first, and maybe permanently. I just got DDO, paid for their 'unlimited access', that cost $14.95 and canceled a week later. If this system is anywhere near as crap as that, forget it. Hopefully they won't have a broken system that makes you wait an indefinite amount of time for what you paid for like DDO with the response of, we know this is a bug and are working to fix it. MY money was gone right now but I have to wait to use what I paid for? No chance. Actually made me hate MTs period. Just tell me how much it cost to play the game and definitely let me know how much I still won't have before my money leaves my hand or I won't bother.
As long as the mt is cosemtic stuff only I will not mind, I don't need the fluff. What makes me happy is the gameplay and how well it runs.
However if they offer weapons, skills, armor, combat enhancement items that is where I will walk away for real cash, I cant compete with the jones, nor will I even try.
Looking different with races/items that give no bonuses, I think, are perfect for any game.
I see a lot of people making this same point, but I don't agree. It's all horse armor to me. Withholding content that would have otherwise been included in the regular monthly fee, simply to sell it separately is enough reason for me not to play a game. It doesn't matter to me whether or not it gives anyone a competitive advantage. these games are generally about the acquisition of loot and character customization, charging extra for these things is BS. Western MMO players have generally been against RMT, and have spoken clearly with their subscription dollars on the subject. If we decide now that it's OK to withhold some loot and sell it to us for a few bucks more, then we may as well all just get prepared to pay 30 bucks a month for the exact same amount of content we now get for 15.
You ASSUME it is going to be RMT + sub, which does not have to be true.
Just look at DDO. You can sub and you can go with F2P. Problem solved. For those who want everything, sub it. For those who want pieces of the content, go with F2P. Perfect solution.
Some of the gumshoes in the Star Wars: The Old Republic community have dug up some interesting language in the Terms of Service agreement included with the application of the recently announced Game Testing program. The language present in the agreement may allude to the existence of an in-game shop aka microtransactions in The Old Republic. Sections H-K of the Game Testing Terms & Conditions are the particularly curious sections of the agreement, making mention of "points" and a "Game store". A screen cap of the aforementioned section of the agreement can be viewed below: Section H states that "all points acquired during the Game program are non-refundable and have no monetary value". In Section K, you'll find the agreement pretty explicitly mentions a "Game store". Of course, BioWare has not officially announced anything along these lines, so while this evidence is certainly convincing it is by no means a direct confirmation that The Old Republic will indeed make use of microtransactions. Via DarthHater. Handled responsibly would you be willing to play Star Wars: The Old Republic with the inclusion of microtransactions, either as the sole method of payment or as a supplement/alternative to a paid subscription option? Let us know in the comments below!
Unfortunately I don't have the links to this anymore but I don't find this shocking at all. I vaguely remember one of the Devs accidentally mentioning something about this very early on after SW:TOR was announced and then Bioware started backpeddling about the issue because there was a huge shitstorm after it was mentioned. Now, if they do something similar to the way Champions has done their in game store then I'm fine with it. You can buy little fun extras such as pets/toys etc. but you cannot buy anything that helps or enhances you in game. If this game offers players the ability to buy xp, xp bonuses, items, or enhancements that aid players like that then I won't touch this game for any reason. It's bad enough that you pay $60 for the game, another $15 or more to play each month, and then you're going to charge me for shit I should have a chance at like everyone else. Nah, they can suck my **** if they think I'm falling for that crap. Only time will tell I suppose but the more I hear about this game, the more I hear in my head "I have a bad feeling about this."
if the points are used for fluff stuff like pets or hair color or whatever stupide shit, i could care less. They make it for items that augment in-game skills and change the experience i'm gonna be pissed
Lets just hope they don't go overboard with it like SOE has with the stupid TCG loot cards. Really pisses me off that items we have asked for for so long require you to participate and spend 100s of dollars tcg cards just to get the items. And even then your chances are low on getting what you want.
I think a good example of how it might work out is like how EA has set it up for Sims 3. The MT's don't keep you from playing the game, but if you don't buy some of the stuff, you can miss out on some pretty cool stuff. My biggest concern is that they do NOT use MT's for gear, that quickly unbalances a game where skill no longer matters but how much money your willing to spend.
You want a larger player house (there is a rumor about that I guess)? Cool....spend x number of dollars and go for it. want a different colored lightsaber crystal? cool...again spend x number of dollars for it.
You want +20 health, +40 attack armour? Earn it through gameplay dammit!
The MT model is tricky and it seems the major argument "for" it -- to bring more people to the game -- didn't work when SOE used that excuse for the NGE and it won't work for BioWare, either.
Personally, I don't think BioWare is at all worried about numbers -- anyone who knows anything about this hobby knows for a fact that SW:TOR will blow everything else out of the water. My God, when they announced they were taking closed beta applications, the response was so literally overwhelming, the server crashed.
My take of these "points" and "store" will be more along the lines of awarding "points" in game as rewards which would be spent in the "store" for some innocuous in game items and maybe even real items, such as hats and t-shirts.
I'm sure we'll hear all about it from BioWare eventually.
But I'm old school too -- if SW:TOR introduces RMT for important in game items such as weapons, armor, kits and the like, the effective range of that concept is zero meters.
Comments
I'm inclined to agree with the above statement - give me standard monthly subscriptions with no hidden extra charges - the developers can budget for their development costs and I can budget for my outlay.
If they insist on sticking their toe in the micro transactions quagmire then offer two methods of payment :-
1. Full monthly subscription that covers EVERYTHING in game with no extra charges at all.
2. Micro transactions with a reduced (or absent) monthly subscription for those who want to control their outlay for features they deem superfluous to their needs.
DEFINITION OF REALITY: Graphics ok, Sound ok, Gold drops need more work...
They won't be done responsibly. Not enough money in that.
I question the motives of posters who are trying to convince us that cash shops are just fine.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Edit: Let me be more specific on what I'm saying so there is no mass confusion about my motives here. I plan to play ToR, I acknowledge this rumor in the ToS does not specifically mean this will be a cash shop of any sort. At the same time, BioWare is considering "all" payment methods currently. RMT is a form of just that. This is all opinion, I respect yours. I admit I'm biased towards RMTs. I will stomach certain fluff in RMTs.
I will not speak for anybody else, I will represent myself. Specifically what I believe is, "if" BioWare consideres a gear based RMT I will not play, no matter how excellent the game may be. I love to be competitive in an MMO (PvP) and part of being a true compatitive player is to "earn" your way up, not to buy your status. No I'm not a hardcore player, I'm semi casual (whatever the hell that is). My arguement with you is not a hate on ToR, if anything I have supported the game since day one, and will continue to do so depending on the directions BioWare takes it. If BioWare implements a gear based RMT I will not hate/bash the game. I will respectfully go my own way.
And to further clarify, no Tilla I'm not bashing you "at all".
LA debunked that, it was on Kotaku a few months ago. They claimed it as a rumor but neve denied it either, but it remains still just that a rumor.
Shit you are right. I knew that too for some reason, i had that f2p micro transaction discussion still in my head when i remember it being debunked. sorry MikeB, proceed.
"Handled responsibly would you be willing to play Star Wars: The Old Republic with the inclusion of microtransactions". Absolutely not. Microtransations no pasaran!
I'm willing to bet MT bring in more money than sub-based. You reach more people and out of that you will get more that spend a few bucks here and there to get above someone else. The companies that are going MT know that human nature is competitive and that people will more than likely spend to "out do" others.
I see the arugment on both sides. These companies are in it to make money. If MT's get them more then that is what they are going to do. I see it coming for all MMO's in the future. So get used to it or don't play. I won't be.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
same I just lost all interest in biowares immenent failure.Too bad i was hopin this would be the one that got me out of wow too.
In-game shops, no matter what, are never a good idea. Because it'll start with fluff and then expand to actual useable items just to ramp up revenue...5 points for a cute pet or 5pts for an armor piece; and getting the entire armor set will equate to say $10.00 USD worth of points....on top of the monthly fee that will probably be in place.
Not one to go around saying this but...anyone who backs the concept of Money -> In-game Items is an idiot. Once you open the MT-Door it's very hard to close it and eventually you'll be back here (any forum) complaining about how it's so hard to compete in X-game because the MT is allowing characters to buy OP gear and you can't afford it.
Knew it was to good to be true; a non-fucked up Star Wars game....
Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising everytime we fall.
This will probably keep me away at first, and maybe permanently. I just got DDO, paid for their 'unlimited access', that cost $14.95 and canceled a week later. If this system is anywhere near as crap as that, forget it. Hopefully they won't have a broken system that makes you wait an indefinite amount of time for what you paid for like DDO with the response of, we know this is a bug and are working to fix it. MY money was gone right now but I have to wait to use what I paid for? No chance. Actually made me hate MTs period. Just tell me how much it cost to play the game and definitely let me know how much I still won't have before my money leaves my hand or I won't bother.
As long as the mt is cosemtic stuff only I will not mind, I don't need the fluff. What makes me happy is the gameplay and how well it runs.
However if they offer weapons, skills, armor, combat enhancement items that is where I will walk away for real cash, I cant compete with the jones, nor will I even try.
I see a lot of people making this same point, but I don't agree. It's all horse armor to me. Withholding content that would have otherwise been included in the regular monthly fee, simply to sell it separately is enough reason for me not to play a game. It doesn't matter to me whether or not it gives anyone a competitive advantage. these games are generally about the acquisition of loot and character customization, charging extra for these things is BS. Western MMO players have generally been against RMT, and have spoken clearly with their subscription dollars on the subject. If we decide now that it's OK to withhold some loot and sell it to us for a few bucks more, then we may as well all just get prepared to pay 30 bucks a month for the exact same amount of content we now get for 15.
You ASSUME it is going to be RMT + sub, which does not have to be true.
Just look at DDO. You can sub and you can go with F2P. Problem solved. For those who want everything, sub it. For those who want pieces of the content, go with F2P. Perfect solution.
Unfortunately I don't have the links to this anymore but I don't find this shocking at all. I vaguely remember one of the Devs accidentally mentioning something about this very early on after SW:TOR was announced and then Bioware started backpeddling about the issue because there was a huge shitstorm after it was mentioned. Now, if they do something similar to the way Champions has done their in game store then I'm fine with it. You can buy little fun extras such as pets/toys etc. but you cannot buy anything that helps or enhances you in game. If this game offers players the ability to buy xp, xp bonuses, items, or enhancements that aid players like that then I won't touch this game for any reason. It's bad enough that you pay $60 for the game, another $15 or more to play each month, and then you're going to charge me for shit I should have a chance at like everyone else. Nah, they can suck my **** if they think I'm falling for that crap. Only time will tell I suppose but the more I hear about this game, the more I hear in my head "I have a bad feeling about this."
My sentiments exactly.
Lets just hope they don't go overboard with it like SOE has with the stupid TCG loot cards. Really pisses me off that items we have asked for for so long require you to participate and spend 100s of dollars tcg cards just to get the items. And even then your chances are low on getting what you want.
I think a good example of how it might work out is like how EA has set it up for Sims 3. The MT's don't keep you from playing the game, but if you don't buy some of the stuff, you can miss out on some pretty cool stuff. My biggest concern is that they do NOT use MT's for gear, that quickly unbalances a game where skill no longer matters but how much money your willing to spend.
You want a larger player house (there is a rumor about that I guess)? Cool....spend x number of dollars and go for it. want a different colored lightsaber crystal? cool...again spend x number of dollars for it.
You want +20 health, +40 attack armour? Earn it through gameplay dammit!
The MT model is tricky and it seems the major argument "for" it -- to bring more people to the game -- didn't work when SOE used that excuse for the NGE and it won't work for BioWare, either.
Personally, I don't think BioWare is at all worried about numbers -- anyone who knows anything about this hobby knows for a fact that SW:TOR will blow everything else out of the water. My God, when they announced they were taking closed beta applications, the response was so literally overwhelming, the server crashed.
My take of these "points" and "store" will be more along the lines of awarding "points" in game as rewards which would be spent in the "store" for some innocuous in game items and maybe even real items, such as hats and t-shirts.
I'm sure we'll hear all about it from BioWare eventually.
But I'm old school too -- if SW:TOR introduces RMT for important in game items such as weapons, armor, kits and the like, the effective range of that concept is zero meters.
No.
No, I wouldn't play that game if it includes micro-transactions. Boo-yah Bioware !!
Just hope its a misunderstanding and/or copy & paste error, lol.
NO to microtransactions!