Originally posted by Ginkeq Just another massive failure like their junk game Tabula Rasa, and Guildwars.
Er, I'm pretty ambivalent about Aion, but Guild Wars has not failed by a long shot. For years, it had filled a niche market with one of the highest game purchase rates in NA.
No, it won't fail. But I've given up on it for now, due to:
terrible camera controls. excessive PVE repetition that takes the genre a step backwards. poorly-designed PVP (kinda ridiculous to have someone from from 1 foot away to out of spell range, in the 2 sec it took to cast my frostbolt spell.) poorly-designed world objectives (Didn't they learn from WAR that 8+ mins of attacking a stationary wall isn't fun?)
I might eventually try it again, but for now I'll revert to my TF2-for-PVP, WOW-for-PVE split of gaming, which has worked out nicely. And I suppose I've been playing a non-trivial amount of Haven & Hearth for my sandbox fix too.
Lol, so someone else noticed the horrible camera controls and play control in AION? That's funny.
I remember in Open Beta I whined about the camera for a while and most of the players didn't find a problem with it. That just shows you the quality of the typical AION player. It's immediately obvious to skilled PvPers that the camera system is no good for PvP.
They have it set up so your camera dictates what direction your character moves in. Look at something else, hit forward, and your character changes direction. What a joke crap game.
Lol poorly designed PvE and PvP, sounds like NCSoft. The only reason this game is floating is all the hype from asian countries and the fact that the game has decent graphics. Maybe after a few months players will realize there's nothing to AION.
As to people who ask why I make these fail posts, is because I think AION is a trash MMORPG, similar to WoW. It's too bad NCSoft didn't do something totally different, instead they rehash what TR and GuildWars was, then copy WoW, and think that is going to be a good MMORPG. If people want to play WoW they will play WoW, stop making clones.
No one should even play MMORPGs that contain instances, they should boycott it. Instances are a way for MMO companies to make money and cheapen the MMO experience for everyone. Pretty soon it will just all be instances, your main cities will have 5-10 people in them each. Back in EQ everything was shared, what happened to that?
Just another massive failure like their junk game Tabula Rasa, and Guildwars.
Er, I'm pretty ambivalent about Aion, but Guild Wars has not failed by a long shot. For years, it had filled a niche market with one of the highest game purchase rates in NA.
I would call it a failure as an MMORPG. It's another type of game really,reminded me of Diablo 2 or something cheap because basically every zone is instanced. Get from point a to b by clicking on maps, thats not an MMORPG
Guild Wars before observer mode had one of the most unique and challenging pvp encounters to date. 8 v 8 with multiple maps all requiring different strats plus your own team strat and a counter strat to the other teams build. And by no means did you farm crappy players all day with the ladder system and how it was set up. If you did play GW it almost sounds like you only did Random Arenas for five minutes.
Is pvp more challenging than pve? well obviously that depends on the game but in most cases it is because AI in mmorpgs is very basic. A human player is completely unpredictable. Your arguments against pvp play are silly. Only against people who you have a class advantage over or people who aren't good players? Have you ever actually played a PVP game? You don't actually get to pick your fights and you don't know how good a player is untill you beat him or her. It's an MMORPG world with thousands of players, chances are you'll be fighting new players pretty often if not all the time.
Are you kidding? How do you call the 1-30 second PvP encounters in these newer MMORPGs challenging? Did you also find Diablo 2's 1 shot PvP system challenging too? The only way a game with PvP could ever be considered challenging is if the PvP in the game took an equivalent amount of time. In EQ, we could have 100 people fighting each other for 30-60 minutes before one side wins. And unlike these junk carebear games, EQ PvP was real. You are raiding Kael? Well another guild might want that spawn too, and they will put up a raid force to come take your guild out and prevent you from killing an NPC. Try that in a carebear hand holding MMORPG like WoW or AION, where you have your little protected instances...
Even in WoW the PvE was more difficult than the PvP content. I don't even know how you can make the equivalence between a 5-10 second encounter and a raid encounter which typically lasts several minutes. Raids are sustained skill and thinking and PvP is just looking at your opponents class and using a prehashed strategy for that class/skill tree.
PvE = 10-20 minutes of skill per encounter
PvP = 5-10 seconds of skill per encounter
Which one is really more enjoyable? Do you enjoy trivial wins that are so common that they are meaningless? That is basically what new MMORPGs have for their PvP systems. Doesn't even matter if you are on top or on bottom because it is boring & easy regardless.
And if you want a game where its only dependent on your own skill why are you playing an MMORPG in the first place? MMORPGs should have always had massive raids that required lots of people. 40 should be a minimum for raids, that way there is more opportunity to screw up and lose the raid, making the victory that much more worthwhile. Now when you make it 5 man raids, it's just going to be boring because it's trivial to coordinate raids/groups that small, kind of the same as grinding exp.
So I would argue PvE is where these games should focus, because it is more fun, requires more skill, and encourages people to PvP. PvE and PvP should co-exist I think but I don't think PVP should be a substitute for PvE (like when you have the best gear from farming BGs/Arenas all day, mindlessly.) When PvE gear > PvP gear, then PvPers are encouraged to PvE and PvErs are encouraged to PvP. It's just sad to see that games are making MMOs PvP based for low skilled players. There was a time (like 7-8 years ago) when MMORPGs were challenging.
Current MMORPGs are like swimming with life preservers, making them boring to skilled players.
Your posts make absolutely no sense. So because a PVP fights lasts longer that suddenly means they are harder? Where do you get these downright silly ideas? There is no reason for a PVP fight to drag out for 20 minutes, thats downright insane.
Also these large scale pvp fights you described? Guess what: They still happen in Aion not just over enemies but also over keeps which in return give exclusive access to dungeons to the faction that holds them.
Raids are nothing more than using the same tactics over and over again because all raids follow the same pattern every confrontation. Just because it lasts over 20 minutes doesn't mean it's more challenging. In PVP, you have to have a strategy ready for every class and even then players move differently and use skills differently every time.
I highly disagree that MMORPGs need massive raids. If you enjoy killing the same boss with the same pattern over and over again, good for you. A lot of people don't think it's enjoyable to be restricted to certain playtimes and to spend hours getting a raid together.
How does it make no sense? If you hit 1 button and an enemy dies instantly, are you going to say that takes more skill than a fight that is drawn out? Get real
And as for using the same tactics over and over, most guilds in most MMOs can't even do raid content. How do you do raid content over and over when you aren't even capable of beating it in the first place? It's ridiculous. PvE is clearly harder, which is why they are phasing it out and phasing in PvP with other newbie players for gear. Want the best gear? PvP with newbies for a couple weeks and you got it. Dumbing down MMOs, that is what NCsoft and Blizzard has done.
Just another massive failure like their junk game Tabula Rasa, and Guildwars. 2 Carebear games. And TR was so bad, it was just a game where they give you 500 pointless quests and half of the instances were broken. I guess NCSoft gave up on making PvE after that massive failure and decided to use the GuildWars model where you farm other garbage players all day.
Unfortunatel for youy, in reality there are very few mmorpgs where you actually kill an enemy in 1 shot, unless you're attacking an opponent thats way below your level. WoW and Aion certainly take more than 1 hit and 1 button to PVP, that's for sure.
I'll explain it to you again: Most guilds can't do raid content because they don't have enough guild members to fill 40+ raid spots. What part of that is hard to understand? It has nothing to do with Raids being in any sense difficult because they aren't. It's almost entirely based on numbers, enough characters with good equipment. Having a tank, many dps and healers go a long way. You sometimes have to stand in a certain positions but these are all things you know after the first time you kill a boss. Heck, you can watch a video online if you want.
You're idea of a fun mmorpg is only being able to play when there are 40+ other people willing to do the same thing. Well surprise, but some people actually like to play more often than once a week because thats the only time there happen to be enough guild members online.
That isn't dumbing down, thats changing priorities.
Originally posted by Ginkeq ...eliminating PvE is another way of dumbing down MMORPGs and catering to a mainstream audience that just isn't good enough for things that require strategies or skill.
Little condescending there, eh?
Let's set aside the fact that the raiding you seem to be talking about is the sort that requires a time commitment of too many hours to be practical for people whose schedules include jobs or school -- it's a matter of free time, not of difficulty as such. You seem to be linking the preferences of the "mainstream audience" of which you speak with said audience's average skill level. Why? I'm not really sure; you've made absolutely no case for any sort of correlation there. Saying that a PvE or PvP experience is easier or harder for being what it is seems an unfounded generalization to me.
The majority, being the largest source of revenue, will determine the shape games take, and that's just fine with me, as long as it will keep misanthropes like you out of the games I play.
...eliminating PvE is another way of dumbing down MMORPGs and catering to a mainstream audience that just isn't good enough for things that require strategies or skill.
Little condescending there, eh?
Let's set aside the fact that the raiding you seem to be talking about is the sort that requires a time commitment of too many hours to be practical for people whose schedules include jobs or school -- it's a matter of free time, not of difficulty as such. You seem to be linking the preferences of the "mainstream audience" of which you speak with said audience's average skill level. Why? I'm not really sure; you've made absolutely no case for any sort of correlation there. Saying that a PvE or PvP experience is easier or harder for being what it is seems an unfounded generalization to me.
The majority, being the largest source of revenue, will determine the shape games take, and that's just fine with me, as long as it will keep misanthropes like you out of the games I play.
Wow, Ginkeq's quote is terribly off-base. It's a well-known fact that PVE games appeal to mainstream audiences far more than PVP games.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Unfortunately, in reality there are very few mmorpgs where you actually kill an enemy in 1 shot, unless you're attacking an opponent thats way below your level. WoW and Aion certainly take more than 1 hit and 1 button to PVP, that's for sure. I'll explain it to you again: Most guilds can't do raid content because they don't have enough guild members to fill 40+ raid spots. What part of that is hard to understand? It has nothing to do with Raids being in any sense difficult because they aren't. It's almost entirely based on numbers, enough characters with good equipment. Having a tank, many dps and healers go a long way. You sometimes have to stand in a certain positions but these are all things you know after the first time you kill a boss. Heck, you can watch a video online if you want. You're idea of a fun mmorpg is only being able to play when there are 40+ other people willing to do the same thing. Well surprise, but some people actually like to play more often than once a week because thats the only time there happen to be enough guild members online. That isn't dumbing down, thats changing priorities.
What? There are? Did you play WoW? Yeah maybe it took 2/3 shots from a mage if they dont crit. Even paladins in WoW could kill people almost instantly if they get lucky enough.
The facts are, that the PvP systems nowadays don't encourage long drawn out fights, so they cater to the kind of 1-shot newbies that play these games. The average WoW or AION player isn't intelligent enough to have a sustained PvP battle that lasts longer than 30 seconds.
Explain what to me again? People couldn't do the content because they weren't good enough. If you want to whine about classes or numbers you obviously never played WoW, there were tons of guilds who had 40+ members yet they couldn't manage to get past Molten Core. Hell, even most guilds couldn't handle MC. Going to keep blaming everything on numbers? Lets face it, the instances in WoW got much easier with 25/10 mans.
A fun MMORPG is one where the raid content is challenging and the PvP is real and integrated with the PvE system in the game. EQ is an example of an MMORPG where you have integrated PvP and PvE. And at least EQ had raids that were difficult, that made you feel good after winning. In newer MMORPGs, after beating these raids which are fairly easy, it just isn't as exciting as it was in EQ. EQ's raids were so difficult you weren't guaranteed loot by showing up. Now even horrible players can get into WoW or AION and get looted up just by going to the zone, has nothing to do with skill.
Only horrible PvPers make the claim that PvE is somehow easier than PvP. In WoW when I was at the top of their idiotic arena system, it wasn't even fun because it was artificial. But I remember the challenge of BWL40 and AQ40, and the fact that we were the only guild on the server capable of doing those kinds of raids. It's something to be proud of, a reason to keep playing. When every endgame guild is capable of doing the same raid content, then you just aren't unique, you're a number.
And that is another problem with games like WoW and AION. The game is so trivially easy that there are going to be 1000 players who are max level for each class. You're just a number in these easy games, do people really enjoy being nobodies on these games, not being well known? In an MMORPG, everyone on the server should know who you are. But it's just not like that anymore, now that games have been dumbed and MMORPGs ruined
...eliminating PvE is another way of dumbing down MMORPGs and catering to a mainstream audience that just isn't good enough for things that require strategies or skill.
Little condescending there, eh?
Let's set aside the fact that the raiding you seem to be talking about is the sort that requires a time commitment of too many hours to be practical for people whose schedules include jobs or school -- it's a matter of free time, not of difficulty as such. You seem to be linking the preferences of the "mainstream audience" of which you speak with said audience's average skill level. Why? I'm not really sure; you've made absolutely no case for any sort of correlation there. Saying that a PvE or PvP experience is easier or harder for being what it is seems an unfounded generalization to me.
The majority, being the largest source of revenue, will determine the shape games take, and that's just fine with me, as long as it will keep misanthropes like you out of the games I play.
Total BS. Ever raid with a PUG in WoW? Going to tell me they are the same skill level as reputable guilds? Lol. Some people are just really bad at games, and its those mainstream MMORPGs like WoW and AION that are going to get them.
The majority sucks, because the majority is unskilled. It's unfortunate these newer MMOs are so easy, because all the players are the same in terms of gear level etc. Why even have levels when games like AION are so trivial to level up in? Start people at 50, they will realize the game is horrible much faster. Leveling just seems like a way to get extra revenue, after months of grinding in AION they will come to the realization that the game is no good, and then quit it. But NCSoft will have gotten their 3-4 months or whatever as opposed to 1 months of revenue.
You know there were MMORPGs where not everyone could get level 60, I think we should go back to those times. Let the levels distinguish bad players from good players, like it was in EQ.
People who participate in fake PvP systems are the real problem. Battlegrounds, Arenas, AION's PvP system are all fake PvP systems. I have 0 regard for the people who are the top of these systems, because they aren't real systems where you PvP over game content or lose exp for dying. Games like AION are padded wall MMOs, not fun at all. Wonder how long people will play WoW and AION before they realize it's not fun, and never was fun. They just log on out of chore, because there aren't any other MMORPGs out there worth playing, not because WoW/AION are actually enjoyable anymore.
...eliminating PvE is another way of dumbing down MMORPGs and catering to a mainstream audience that just isn't good enough for things that require strategies or skill.
Little condescending there, eh?
Let's set aside the fact that the raiding you seem to be talking about is the sort that requires a time commitment of too many hours to be practical for people whose schedules include jobs or school -- it's a matter of free time, not of difficulty as such. You seem to be linking the preferences of the "mainstream audience" of which you speak with said audience's average skill level. Why? I'm not really sure; you've made absolutely no case for any sort of correlation there. Saying that a PvE or PvP experience is easier or harder for being what it is seems an unfounded generalization to me.
The majority, being the largest source of revenue, will determine the shape games take, and that's just fine with me, as long as it will keep misanthropes like you out of the games I play.
Total BS. Ever raid with a PUG in WoW? Going to tell me they are the same skill level as reputable guilds? Lol. Some people are just really bad at games, and its those mainstream MMORPGs like WoW and AION that are going to get them.
The majority sucks, because the majority is unskilled. It's unfortunate these newer MMOs are so easy, because all the players are the same in terms of gear level etc. Why even have levels when games like AION are so trivial to level up in? Start people at 50, they will realize the game is horrible much faster. Leveling just seems like a way to get extra revenue, after months of grinding in AION they will come to the realization that the game is no good, and then quit it. But NCSoft will have gotten their 3-4 months or whatever as opposed to 1 months of revenue.
You know there were MMORPGs where not everyone could get level 60, I think we should go back to those times. Let the levels distinguish bad players from good players, like it was in EQ.
People who participate in fake PvP systems are the real problem. Battlegrounds, Arenas, AION's PvP system are all fake PvP systems. I have 0 regard for the people who are the top of these systems, because they aren't real systems where you PvP over game content or lose exp for dying. Games like AION are padded wall MMOs, not fun at all. Wonder how long people will play WoW and AION before they realize it's not fun, and never was fun. They just log on out of chore, because there aren't any other MMORPGs out there worth playing, not because WoW/AION are actually enjoyable anymore.
You seem to have absolutely no clue about aion's pvp and you're proving so in almost every post of yours.
Aion doesn't have an exp penalty for pvp, it does have a AP penalty though, which in the end is the same (time invested), and in aion you PvP over game content. Any other stupid claim to make?
Yeah I wouldn't know about paladins I only was in a guild that was in the top 10 for doing world firsts.
Paladins can one hit people easily, probably to this day with a good 2h and some crits. Go play your trash game AION where you have fake PvP and instanced worlds, trash NCSoft company
So I dont know if what I am saying is original since I didnt read the first 7 pages, but it is my opinion.
I have a strong feeling Aion will end up being a smaller(still big, but now like WoW) game, where 90% of it's players are hardcore dedicated players. Mainly because the game is a grinding game and it isn't the most fun to get to level 50. so I have a feeling the game wont die for many years, and will be the homes of a bunch of tightly knit strong legions
I'm not sure how Aion is the trash game with fake PvP if WoW is the game where you can one shot kill people.
Aion won't fail, it's a solid game, people enjoy the PvP, the crafting seems pretty good and the flying thing is something to set it apart a bit. Personally I don't think I'm gonna re-sub, but I can see why plenty of other people would enjoy it long term.
Why do they have tick-marks on the map telling you where to go
Why do they have lots of quests(pointless ones) to gain exp
Why do they have instances
Why does PvP have level restrictions
Why is there no penalty for dying
Why is there no raid content or Trivial raid content
Why do they tell you what to do in MMORPGs, where to go, etc.?
EQ had it right, newer MMORPGs target kids who need to be given directions and kept busy. Older MMORPGs were more free, you could do whatever you wanted. It was more exploratory than these newer MMORPGs.
When I played AION it was basically doing quests and looking at my minimap, required no thought at all.
If AION was such a PvP game then they would allow FFA PvP at any level and have penalties for dying in PvP. And maybe they could make the camera system not suck so horribly.
They keep dumbing down MMORPGs, it's horrible: Why do they have minimaps Why do they have maps Why do they have tick-marks on the map telling you where to go Why do they have lots of quests(pointless ones) to gain exp Why do they have instances Why does PvP have level restrictions Why is there no penalty for dying Why is there no raid content or Trivial raid content Why do they tell you what to do in MMORPGs, where to go, etc.?
Looks great, that's everything I want in an MMORPG.
The main point is just because you dont' like it don't mean everyone else dont' want it.
They keep dumbing down MMORPGs, it's horrible: Why do they have minimaps Why do they have maps Why do they have tick-marks on the map telling you where to go Why do they have lots of quests(pointless ones) to gain exp Why do they have instances Why does PvP have level restrictions Why is there no penalty for dying Why is there no raid content or Trivial raid content Why do they tell you what to do in MMORPGs, where to go, etc.?
Looks great, that's everything I want in an MMORPG.
The main point is just because you dont' like it don't mean everyone else dont' want it.
Sigh, the whole 21th century is fucked, at least for MMORPGs. Gotta put up with these kiddy MMORPGs that are dumbed down. People think they like WoW, probably the D2 crowd who never played real MMORPGs that involve risk, challenge, etc.
Looks like RTS games will be the only challenging genre left after MMORPG companies dumb things down for all of you.
Is pvp more challenging than pve? well obviously that depends on the game but in most cases it is because AI in mmorpgs is very basic. A human player is completely unpredictable. Your arguments against pvp play are silly. Only against people who you have a class advantage over or people who aren't good players? Have you ever actually played a PVP game? You don't actually get to pick your fights and you don't know how good a player is untill you beat him or her. It's an MMORPG world with thousands of players, chances are you'll be fighting new players pretty often if not all the time.
Are you kidding? How do you call the 1-30 second PvP encounters in these newer MMORPGs challenging? Did you also find Diablo 2's 1 shot PvP system challenging too? The only way a game with PvP could ever be considered challenging is if the PvP in the game took an equivalent amount of time. In EQ, we could have 100 people fighting each other for 30-60 minutes before one side wins. And unlike these junk carebear games, EQ PvP was real. You are raiding Kael? Well another guild might want that spawn too, and they will put up a raid force to come take your guild out and prevent you from killing an NPC. Try that in a carebear hand holding MMORPG like WoW or AION, where you have your little protected instances...
Even in WoW the PvE was more difficult than the PvP content. I don't even know how you can make the equivalence between a 5-10 second encounter and a raid encounter which typically lasts several minutes. Raids are sustained skill and thinking and PvP is just looking at your opponents class and using a prehashed strategy for that class/skill tree.
PvE = 10-20 minutes of skill per encounter
PvP = 5-10 seconds of skill per encounter
Which one is really more enjoyable? Do you enjoy trivial wins that are so common that they are meaningless? That is basically what new MMORPGs have for their PvP systems. Doesn't even matter if you are on top or on bottom because it is boring & easy regardless.
And if you want a game where its only dependent on your own skill why are you playing an MMORPG in the first place? MMORPGs should have always had massive raids that required lots of people. 40 should be a minimum for raids, that way there is more opportunity to screw up and lose the raid, making the victory that much more worthwhile. Now when you make it 5 man raids, it's just going to be boring because it's trivial to coordinate raids/groups that small, kind of the same as grinding exp.
So I would argue PvE is where these games should focus, because it is more fun, requires more skill, and encourages people to PvP. PvE and PvP should co-exist I think but I don't think PVP should be a substitute for PvE (like when you have the best gear from farming BGs/Arenas all day, mindlessly.) When PvE gear > PvP gear, then PvPers are encouraged to PvE and PvErs are encouraged to PvP. It's just sad to see that games are making MMOs PvP based for low skilled players. There was a time (like 7-8 years ago) when MMORPGs were challenging.
Current MMORPGs are like swimming with life preservers, making them boring to skilled players.
Your posts make absolutely no sense. So because a PVP fights lasts longer that suddenly means they are harder? Where do you get these downright silly ideas? There is no reason for a PVP fight to drag out for 20 minutes, thats downright insane.
Also these large scale pvp fights you described? Guess what: They still happen in Aion not just over enemies but also over keeps which in return give exclusive access to dungeons to the faction that holds them.
Raids are nothing more than using the same tactics over and over again because all raids follow the same pattern every confrontation. Just because it lasts over 20 minutes doesn't mean it's more challenging. In PVP, you have to have a strategy ready for every class and even then players move differently and use skills differently every time.
I highly disagree that MMORPGs need massive raids. If you enjoy killing the same boss with the same pattern over and over again, good for you. A lot of people don't think it's enjoyable to be restricted to certain playtimes and to spend hours getting a raid together.
How does it make no sense? If you hit 1 button and an enemy dies instantly, are you going to say that takes more skill than a fight that is drawn out? Get real
And as for using the same tactics over and over, most guilds in most MMOs can't even do raid content. How do you do raid content over and over when you aren't even capable of beating it in the first place? It's ridiculous. PvE is clearly harder, which is why they are phasing it out and phasing in PvP with other newbie players for gear. Want the best gear? PvP with newbies for a couple weeks and you got it. Dumbing down MMOs, that is what NCsoft and Blizzard has done.
Just another massive failure like their junk game Tabula Rasa, and Guildwars. 2 Carebear games. And TR was so bad, it was just a game where they give you 500 pointless quests and half of the instances were broken. I guess NCSoft gave up on making PvE after that massive failure and decided to use the GuildWars model where you farm other garbage players all day.
Unfortunately, in reality there are very few mmorpgs where you actually kill an enemy in 1 shot, unless you're attacking an opponent thats way below your level. WoW and Aion certainly take more than 1 hit and 1 button to PVP, that's for sure.
I'll explain it to you again: Most guilds can't do raid content because they don't have enough guild members to fill 40+ raid spots. What part of that is hard to understand? It has nothing to do with Raids being in any sense difficult because they aren't. It's almost entirely based on numbers, enough characters with good equipment. Having a tank, many dps and healers go a long way. You sometimes have to stand in a certain positions but these are all things you know after the first time you kill a boss. Heck, you can watch a video online if you want.
You're idea of a fun mmorpg is only being able to play when there are 40+ other people willing to do the same thing. Well surprise, but some people actually like to play more often than once a week because thats the only time there happen to be enough guild members online.
That isn't dumbing down, thats changing priorities.
Gameloading is my hero! Finally a poster who has some sense!
Will Aion fail in the west? I doubt it. Its has too many things going for it. Including a team of Devs that actually listens to the players. But I enjoy the game and looking ast the queues and new server suggest that the game is on its way to greatness. Btw GW was not a fail. Very good game just too linear and lacking in content. PVP was some of the best in any MMO (warhammers pvp is great too if its not onesided) .
Yeah I wouldn't know about paladins I only was in a guild that was in the top 10 for doing world firsts. Paladins can one hit people easily, probably to this day with a good 2h and some crits. Go play your trash game AION where you have fake PvP and instanced worlds, trash NCSoft company
Instanced worlds? Have you even played Aion? WOW has the most unbalanced PVP ever. If you can get 1 shotted, stunn locked and feared dotted then what fun is that? GW, COH, hell even Warhammer has better PVP. Get more info before making yourself look silly....oops too late.
They keep dumbing down MMORPGs, it's horrible: Why do they have minimaps Why do they have maps Why do they have tick-marks on the map telling you where to go Why do they have lots of quests(pointless ones) to gain exp Why do they have instances Why does PvP have level restrictions Why is there no penalty for dying Why is there no raid content or Trivial raid content Why do they tell you what to do in MMORPGs, where to go, etc.?
Looks great, that's everything I want in an MMORPG.
The main point is just because you dont' like it don't mean everyone else dont' want it.
Sigh, the whole 21th century is fucked, at least for MMORPGs. Gotta put up with these kiddy MMORPGs that are dumbed down. People think they like WoW, probably the D2 crowd who never played real MMORPGs that involve risk, challenge, etc.
Looks like RTS games will be the only challenging genre left after MMORPG companies dumb things down for all of you.
I understand the feeling. I have a gay friend who have a huge crush on this good looking guy. But that guy is straight and is dating this hot girl.
He keeps telling me how he wish everyone is gay. Keep it up bro. Eventhough the market is smaller, I'm sure you'll find a mmorpg you like.
They keep dumbing down MMORPGs, it's horrible: Why do they have minimaps Why do they have maps Why do they have tick-marks on the map telling you where to go Why do they have lots of quests(pointless ones) to gain exp Why do they have instances Why does PvP have level restrictions Why is there no penalty for dying Why is there no raid content or Trivial raid content Why do they tell you what to do in MMORPGs, where to go, etc.?
Looks great, that's everything I want in an MMORPG.
How about a big green button labelled "I WIN!" which, when you press it, automates your character completely for you, and you could just drop into the game every few days to see how you're doing. Sounds right up your street.
They keep dumbing down MMORPGs, it's horrible: Why do they have minimaps Why do they have maps Why do they have tick-marks on the map telling you where to go Why do they have lots of quests(pointless ones) to gain exp Why do they have instances Why does PvP have level restrictions Why is there no penalty for dying Why is there no raid content or Trivial raid content Why do they tell you what to do in MMORPGs, where to go, etc.?
Looks great, that's everything I want in an MMORPG.
How about a big green button labelled "I WIN!" which, when you press it, automates your character completely for you, and you could just drop into the game every few days to see how you're doing. Sounds right up your street.
Fail as what .... ? Is it a WOW killer ? Nope. Thank God for that. Imagine having to wade through 13 in a dozen more of those Korean products in the next decade .... ------ Will it breach 500K subs in future years ....? Nope. Thank God for that. Imagine having to wade hrough 13 in a dozen more of those Korean copycats in the coming years. ------- As an indicator that 500K people want DESPERATELY a NEW massive kind of game next to WOW? Yes, Thank God for that. At least some hope for OTHER games like ST and perhaps who knows even SW (done right). ------- As a second most played MMO (in the west) ? Nope. Just wait and see within 6 months. EVE will hold that place. So Aion very much succeeds in bringing in lots of western money for NCSoft in a short period 6 months time. That was the ONLY reason the game was made for btw.
The only thing your right about is its not a WoW killer. No body knows the sub numbers. But yes its the 2nd largest mmo and no it will probably have more subs than eve.
i think its still early to think of Aion's fate. Give the game about 6 months to see what direction NCsoft is going to take this game as well as more information for future plans.
Comments
Er, I'm pretty ambivalent about Aion, but Guild Wars has not failed by a long shot. For years, it had filled a niche market with one of the highest game purchase rates in NA.
Lol, so someone else noticed the horrible camera controls and play control in AION? That's funny.
I remember in Open Beta I whined about the camera for a while and most of the players didn't find a problem with it. That just shows you the quality of the typical AION player. It's immediately obvious to skilled PvPers that the camera system is no good for PvP.
They have it set up so your camera dictates what direction your character moves in. Look at something else, hit forward, and your character changes direction. What a joke crap game.
Lol poorly designed PvE and PvP, sounds like NCSoft. The only reason this game is floating is all the hype from asian countries and the fact that the game has decent graphics. Maybe after a few months players will realize there's nothing to AION.
As to people who ask why I make these fail posts, is because I think AION is a trash MMORPG, similar to WoW. It's too bad NCSoft didn't do something totally different, instead they rehash what TR and GuildWars was, then copy WoW, and think that is going to be a good MMORPG. If people want to play WoW they will play WoW, stop making clones.
No one should even play MMORPGs that contain instances, they should boycott it. Instances are a way for MMO companies to make money and cheapen the MMO experience for everyone. Pretty soon it will just all be instances, your main cities will have 5-10 people in them each. Back in EQ everything was shared, what happened to that?
Er, I'm pretty ambivalent about Aion, but Guild Wars has not failed by a long shot. For years, it had filled a niche market with one of the highest game purchase rates in NA.
I would call it a failure as an MMORPG. It's another type of game really,reminded me of Diablo 2 or something cheap because basically every zone is instanced. Get from point a to b by clicking on maps, thats not an MMORPG
Guild Wars before observer mode had one of the most unique and challenging pvp encounters to date. 8 v 8 with multiple maps all requiring different strats plus your own team strat and a counter strat to the other teams build. And by no means did you farm crappy players all day with the ladder system and how it was set up. If you did play GW it almost sounds like you only did Random Arenas for five minutes.
Are you kidding? How do you call the 1-30 second PvP encounters in these newer MMORPGs challenging? Did you also find Diablo 2's 1 shot PvP system challenging too? The only way a game with PvP could ever be considered challenging is if the PvP in the game took an equivalent amount of time. In EQ, we could have 100 people fighting each other for 30-60 minutes before one side wins. And unlike these junk carebear games, EQ PvP was real. You are raiding Kael? Well another guild might want that spawn too, and they will put up a raid force to come take your guild out and prevent you from killing an NPC. Try that in a carebear hand holding MMORPG like WoW or AION, where you have your little protected instances...
Even in WoW the PvE was more difficult than the PvP content. I don't even know how you can make the equivalence between a 5-10 second encounter and a raid encounter which typically lasts several minutes. Raids are sustained skill and thinking and PvP is just looking at your opponents class and using a prehashed strategy for that class/skill tree.
PvE = 10-20 minutes of skill per encounter
PvP = 5-10 seconds of skill per encounter
Which one is really more enjoyable? Do you enjoy trivial wins that are so common that they are meaningless? That is basically what new MMORPGs have for their PvP systems. Doesn't even matter if you are on top or on bottom because it is boring & easy regardless.
And if you want a game where its only dependent on your own skill why are you playing an MMORPG in the first place? MMORPGs should have always had massive raids that required lots of people. 40 should be a minimum for raids, that way there is more opportunity to screw up and lose the raid, making the victory that much more worthwhile. Now when you make it 5 man raids, it's just going to be boring because it's trivial to coordinate raids/groups that small, kind of the same as grinding exp.
So I would argue PvE is where these games should focus, because it is more fun, requires more skill, and encourages people to PvP. PvE and PvP should co-exist I think but I don't think PVP should be a substitute for PvE (like when you have the best gear from farming BGs/Arenas all day, mindlessly.) When PvE gear > PvP gear, then PvPers are encouraged to PvE and PvErs are encouraged to PvP. It's just sad to see that games are making MMOs PvP based for low skilled players. There was a time (like 7-8 years ago) when MMORPGs were challenging.
Current MMORPGs are like swimming with life preservers, making them boring to skilled players.
Your posts make absolutely no sense. So because a PVP fights lasts longer that suddenly means they are harder? Where do you get these downright silly ideas? There is no reason for a PVP fight to drag out for 20 minutes, thats downright insane.
Also these large scale pvp fights you described? Guess what: They still happen in Aion not just over enemies but also over keeps which in return give exclusive access to dungeons to the faction that holds them.
Raids are nothing more than using the same tactics over and over again because all raids follow the same pattern every confrontation. Just because it lasts over 20 minutes doesn't mean it's more challenging. In PVP, you have to have a strategy ready for every class and even then players move differently and use skills differently every time.
I highly disagree that MMORPGs need massive raids. If you enjoy killing the same boss with the same pattern over and over again, good for you. A lot of people don't think it's enjoyable to be restricted to certain playtimes and to spend hours getting a raid together.
How does it make no sense? If you hit 1 button and an enemy dies instantly, are you going to say that takes more skill than a fight that is drawn out? Get real
And as for using the same tactics over and over, most guilds in most MMOs can't even do raid content. How do you do raid content over and over when you aren't even capable of beating it in the first place? It's ridiculous. PvE is clearly harder, which is why they are phasing it out and phasing in PvP with other newbie players for gear. Want the best gear? PvP with newbies for a couple weeks and you got it. Dumbing down MMOs, that is what NCsoft and Blizzard has done.
Just another massive failure like their junk game Tabula Rasa, and Guildwars. 2 Carebear games. And TR was so bad, it was just a game where they give you 500 pointless quests and half of the instances were broken. I guess NCSoft gave up on making PvE after that massive failure and decided to use the GuildWars model where you farm other garbage players all day.
Unfortunatel for youy, in reality there are very few mmorpgs where you actually kill an enemy in 1 shot, unless you're attacking an opponent thats way below your level. WoW and Aion certainly take more than 1 hit and 1 button to PVP, that's for sure.
I'll explain it to you again: Most guilds can't do raid content because they don't have enough guild members to fill 40+ raid spots. What part of that is hard to understand? It has nothing to do with Raids being in any sense difficult because they aren't. It's almost entirely based on numbers, enough characters with good equipment. Having a tank, many dps and healers go a long way. You sometimes have to stand in a certain positions but these are all things you know after the first time you kill a boss. Heck, you can watch a video online if you want.
You're idea of a fun mmorpg is only being able to play when there are 40+ other people willing to do the same thing. Well surprise, but some people actually like to play more often than once a week because thats the only time there happen to be enough guild members online.
That isn't dumbing down, thats changing priorities.
Little condescending there, eh?
Let's set aside the fact that the raiding you seem to be talking about is the sort that requires a time commitment of too many hours to be practical for people whose schedules include jobs or school -- it's a matter of free time, not of difficulty as such. You seem to be linking the preferences of the "mainstream audience" of which you speak with said audience's average skill level. Why? I'm not really sure; you've made absolutely no case for any sort of correlation there. Saying that a PvE or PvP experience is easier or harder for being what it is seems an unfounded generalization to me.
The majority, being the largest source of revenue, will determine the shape games take, and that's just fine with me, as long as it will keep misanthropes like you out of the games I play.
Explorer: 87%, Socializer: 60%, Achiever: 47%, Killer: 7%
Little condescending there, eh?
Let's set aside the fact that the raiding you seem to be talking about is the sort that requires a time commitment of too many hours to be practical for people whose schedules include jobs or school -- it's a matter of free time, not of difficulty as such. You seem to be linking the preferences of the "mainstream audience" of which you speak with said audience's average skill level. Why? I'm not really sure; you've made absolutely no case for any sort of correlation there. Saying that a PvE or PvP experience is easier or harder for being what it is seems an unfounded generalization to me.
The majority, being the largest source of revenue, will determine the shape games take, and that's just fine with me, as long as it will keep misanthropes like you out of the games I play.
Wow, Ginkeq's quote is terribly off-base. It's a well-known fact that PVE games appeal to mainstream audiences far more than PVP games.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
No.
What? There are? Did you play WoW? Yeah maybe it took 2/3 shots from a mage if they dont crit. Even paladins in WoW could kill people almost instantly if they get lucky enough.
The facts are, that the PvP systems nowadays don't encourage long drawn out fights, so they cater to the kind of 1-shot newbies that play these games. The average WoW or AION player isn't intelligent enough to have a sustained PvP battle that lasts longer than 30 seconds.
Explain what to me again? People couldn't do the content because they weren't good enough. If you want to whine about classes or numbers you obviously never played WoW, there were tons of guilds who had 40+ members yet they couldn't manage to get past Molten Core. Hell, even most guilds couldn't handle MC. Going to keep blaming everything on numbers? Lets face it, the instances in WoW got much easier with 25/10 mans.
A fun MMORPG is one where the raid content is challenging and the PvP is real and integrated with the PvE system in the game. EQ is an example of an MMORPG where you have integrated PvP and PvE. And at least EQ had raids that were difficult, that made you feel good after winning. In newer MMORPGs, after beating these raids which are fairly easy, it just isn't as exciting as it was in EQ. EQ's raids were so difficult you weren't guaranteed loot by showing up. Now even horrible players can get into WoW or AION and get looted up just by going to the zone, has nothing to do with skill.
Only horrible PvPers make the claim that PvE is somehow easier than PvP. In WoW when I was at the top of their idiotic arena system, it wasn't even fun because it was artificial. But I remember the challenge of BWL40 and AQ40, and the fact that we were the only guild on the server capable of doing those kinds of raids. It's something to be proud of, a reason to keep playing. When every endgame guild is capable of doing the same raid content, then you just aren't unique, you're a number.
And that is another problem with games like WoW and AION. The game is so trivially easy that there are going to be 1000 players who are max level for each class. You're just a number in these easy games, do people really enjoy being nobodies on these games, not being well known? In an MMORPG, everyone on the server should know who you are. But it's just not like that anymore, now that games have been dumbed and MMORPGs ruined
Little condescending there, eh?
Let's set aside the fact that the raiding you seem to be talking about is the sort that requires a time commitment of too many hours to be practical for people whose schedules include jobs or school -- it's a matter of free time, not of difficulty as such. You seem to be linking the preferences of the "mainstream audience" of which you speak with said audience's average skill level. Why? I'm not really sure; you've made absolutely no case for any sort of correlation there. Saying that a PvE or PvP experience is easier or harder for being what it is seems an unfounded generalization to me.
The majority, being the largest source of revenue, will determine the shape games take, and that's just fine with me, as long as it will keep misanthropes like you out of the games I play.
Total BS. Ever raid with a PUG in WoW? Going to tell me they are the same skill level as reputable guilds? Lol. Some people are just really bad at games, and its those mainstream MMORPGs like WoW and AION that are going to get them.
The majority sucks, because the majority is unskilled. It's unfortunate these newer MMOs are so easy, because all the players are the same in terms of gear level etc. Why even have levels when games like AION are so trivial to level up in? Start people at 50, they will realize the game is horrible much faster. Leveling just seems like a way to get extra revenue, after months of grinding in AION they will come to the realization that the game is no good, and then quit it. But NCSoft will have gotten their 3-4 months or whatever as opposed to 1 months of revenue.
You know there were MMORPGs where not everyone could get level 60, I think we should go back to those times. Let the levels distinguish bad players from good players, like it was in EQ.
People who participate in fake PvP systems are the real problem. Battlegrounds, Arenas, AION's PvP system are all fake PvP systems. I have 0 regard for the people who are the top of these systems, because they aren't real systems where you PvP over game content or lose exp for dying. Games like AION are padded wall MMOs, not fun at all. Wonder how long people will play WoW and AION before they realize it's not fun, and never was fun. They just log on out of chore, because there aren't any other MMORPGs out there worth playing, not because WoW/AION are actually enjoyable anymore.
Little condescending there, eh?
Let's set aside the fact that the raiding you seem to be talking about is the sort that requires a time commitment of too many hours to be practical for people whose schedules include jobs or school -- it's a matter of free time, not of difficulty as such. You seem to be linking the preferences of the "mainstream audience" of which you speak with said audience's average skill level. Why? I'm not really sure; you've made absolutely no case for any sort of correlation there. Saying that a PvE or PvP experience is easier or harder for being what it is seems an unfounded generalization to me.
The majority, being the largest source of revenue, will determine the shape games take, and that's just fine with me, as long as it will keep misanthropes like you out of the games I play.
Total BS. Ever raid with a PUG in WoW? Going to tell me they are the same skill level as reputable guilds? Lol. Some people are just really bad at games, and its those mainstream MMORPGs like WoW and AION that are going to get them.
The majority sucks, because the majority is unskilled. It's unfortunate these newer MMOs are so easy, because all the players are the same in terms of gear level etc. Why even have levels when games like AION are so trivial to level up in? Start people at 50, they will realize the game is horrible much faster. Leveling just seems like a way to get extra revenue, after months of grinding in AION they will come to the realization that the game is no good, and then quit it. But NCSoft will have gotten their 3-4 months or whatever as opposed to 1 months of revenue.
You know there were MMORPGs where not everyone could get level 60, I think we should go back to those times. Let the levels distinguish bad players from good players, like it was in EQ.
People who participate in fake PvP systems are the real problem. Battlegrounds, Arenas, AION's PvP system are all fake PvP systems. I have 0 regard for the people who are the top of these systems, because they aren't real systems where you PvP over game content or lose exp for dying. Games like AION are padded wall MMOs, not fun at all. Wonder how long people will play WoW and AION before they realize it's not fun, and never was fun. They just log on out of chore, because there aren't any other MMORPGs out there worth playing, not because WoW/AION are actually enjoyable anymore.
You seem to have absolutely no clue about aion's pvp and you're proving so in almost every post of yours.
Aion doesn't have an exp penalty for pvp, it does have a AP penalty though, which in the end is the same (time invested), and in aion you PvP over game content. Any other stupid claim to make?
Yeah I wouldn't know about paladins I only was in a guild that was in the top 10 for doing world firsts.
Paladins can one hit people easily, probably to this day with a good 2h and some crits. Go play your trash game AION where you have fake PvP and instanced worlds, trash NCSoft company
I don't think aion will fail. Because they got worldwide audience. And is making money. So more likely than not, they'll keep updating new patch.
So I dont know if what I am saying is original since I didnt read the first 7 pages, but it is my opinion.
I have a strong feeling Aion will end up being a smaller(still big, but now like WoW) game, where 90% of it's players are hardcore dedicated players. Mainly because the game is a grinding game and it isn't the most fun to get to level 50. so I have a feeling the game wont die for many years, and will be the homes of a bunch of tightly knit strong legions
I'm not sure how Aion is the trash game with fake PvP if WoW is the game where you can one shot kill people.
Aion won't fail, it's a solid game, people enjoy the PvP, the crafting seems pretty good and the flying thing is something to set it apart a bit. Personally I don't think I'm gonna re-sub, but I can see why plenty of other people would enjoy it long term.
They keep dumbing down MMORPGs, it's horrible:
Why do they have minimaps
Why do they have maps
Why do they have tick-marks on the map telling you where to go
Why do they have lots of quests(pointless ones) to gain exp
Why do they have instances
Why does PvP have level restrictions
Why is there no penalty for dying
Why is there no raid content or Trivial raid content
Why do they tell you what to do in MMORPGs, where to go, etc.?
EQ had it right, newer MMORPGs target kids who need to be given directions and kept busy. Older MMORPGs were more free, you could do whatever you wanted. It was more exploratory than these newer MMORPGs.
When I played AION it was basically doing quests and looking at my minimap, required no thought at all.
If AION was such a PvP game then they would allow FFA PvP at any level and have penalties for dying in PvP. And maybe they could make the camera system not suck so horribly.
Looks great, that's everything I want in an MMORPG.
The main point is just because you dont' like it don't mean everyone else dont' want it.
Looks great, that's everything I want in an MMORPG.
The main point is just because you dont' like it don't mean everyone else dont' want it.
Sigh, the whole 21th century is fucked, at least for MMORPGs. Gotta put up with these kiddy MMORPGs that are dumbed down. People think they like WoW, probably the D2 crowd who never played real MMORPGs that involve risk, challenge, etc.
Looks like RTS games will be the only challenging genre left after MMORPG companies dumb things down for all of you.
Are you kidding? How do you call the 1-30 second PvP encounters in these newer MMORPGs challenging? Did you also find Diablo 2's 1 shot PvP system challenging too? The only way a game with PvP could ever be considered challenging is if the PvP in the game took an equivalent amount of time. In EQ, we could have 100 people fighting each other for 30-60 minutes before one side wins. And unlike these junk carebear games, EQ PvP was real. You are raiding Kael? Well another guild might want that spawn too, and they will put up a raid force to come take your guild out and prevent you from killing an NPC. Try that in a carebear hand holding MMORPG like WoW or AION, where you have your little protected instances...
Even in WoW the PvE was more difficult than the PvP content. I don't even know how you can make the equivalence between a 5-10 second encounter and a raid encounter which typically lasts several minutes. Raids are sustained skill and thinking and PvP is just looking at your opponents class and using a prehashed strategy for that class/skill tree.
PvE = 10-20 minutes of skill per encounter
PvP = 5-10 seconds of skill per encounter
Which one is really more enjoyable? Do you enjoy trivial wins that are so common that they are meaningless? That is basically what new MMORPGs have for their PvP systems. Doesn't even matter if you are on top or on bottom because it is boring & easy regardless.
And if you want a game where its only dependent on your own skill why are you playing an MMORPG in the first place? MMORPGs should have always had massive raids that required lots of people. 40 should be a minimum for raids, that way there is more opportunity to screw up and lose the raid, making the victory that much more worthwhile. Now when you make it 5 man raids, it's just going to be boring because it's trivial to coordinate raids/groups that small, kind of the same as grinding exp.
So I would argue PvE is where these games should focus, because it is more fun, requires more skill, and encourages people to PvP. PvE and PvP should co-exist I think but I don't think PVP should be a substitute for PvE (like when you have the best gear from farming BGs/Arenas all day, mindlessly.) When PvE gear > PvP gear, then PvPers are encouraged to PvE and PvErs are encouraged to PvP. It's just sad to see that games are making MMOs PvP based for low skilled players. There was a time (like 7-8 years ago) when MMORPGs were challenging.
Current MMORPGs are like swimming with life preservers, making them boring to skilled players.
Your posts make absolutely no sense. So because a PVP fights lasts longer that suddenly means they are harder? Where do you get these downright silly ideas? There is no reason for a PVP fight to drag out for 20 minutes, thats downright insane.
Also these large scale pvp fights you described? Guess what: They still happen in Aion not just over enemies but also over keeps which in return give exclusive access to dungeons to the faction that holds them.
Raids are nothing more than using the same tactics over and over again because all raids follow the same pattern every confrontation. Just because it lasts over 20 minutes doesn't mean it's more challenging. In PVP, you have to have a strategy ready for every class and even then players move differently and use skills differently every time.
I highly disagree that MMORPGs need massive raids. If you enjoy killing the same boss with the same pattern over and over again, good for you. A lot of people don't think it's enjoyable to be restricted to certain playtimes and to spend hours getting a raid together.
How does it make no sense? If you hit 1 button and an enemy dies instantly, are you going to say that takes more skill than a fight that is drawn out? Get real
And as for using the same tactics over and over, most guilds in most MMOs can't even do raid content. How do you do raid content over and over when you aren't even capable of beating it in the first place? It's ridiculous. PvE is clearly harder, which is why they are phasing it out and phasing in PvP with other newbie players for gear. Want the best gear? PvP with newbies for a couple weeks and you got it. Dumbing down MMOs, that is what NCsoft and Blizzard has done.
Just another massive failure like their junk game Tabula Rasa, and Guildwars. 2 Carebear games. And TR was so bad, it was just a game where they give you 500 pointless quests and half of the instances were broken. I guess NCSoft gave up on making PvE after that massive failure and decided to use the GuildWars model where you farm other garbage players all day.
Unfortunately, in reality there are very few mmorpgs where you actually kill an enemy in 1 shot, unless you're attacking an opponent thats way below your level. WoW and Aion certainly take more than 1 hit and 1 button to PVP, that's for sure.
I'll explain it to you again: Most guilds can't do raid content because they don't have enough guild members to fill 40+ raid spots. What part of that is hard to understand? It has nothing to do with Raids being in any sense difficult because they aren't. It's almost entirely based on numbers, enough characters with good equipment. Having a tank, many dps and healers go a long way. You sometimes have to stand in a certain positions but these are all things you know after the first time you kill a boss. Heck, you can watch a video online if you want.
You're idea of a fun mmorpg is only being able to play when there are 40+ other people willing to do the same thing. Well surprise, but some people actually like to play more often than once a week because thats the only time there happen to be enough guild members online.
That isn't dumbing down, thats changing priorities.
Gameloading is my hero! Finally a poster who has some sense!
Will Aion fail in the west? I doubt it. Its has too many things going for it. Including a team of Devs that actually listens to the players. But I enjoy the game and looking ast the queues and new server suggest that the game is on its way to greatness. Btw GW was not a fail. Very good game just too linear and lacking in content. PVP was some of the best in any MMO (warhammers pvp is great too if its not onesided) .
Instanced worlds? Have you even played Aion? WOW has the most unbalanced PVP ever. If you can get 1 shotted, stunn locked and feared dotted then what fun is that? GW, COH, hell even Warhammer has better PVP. Get more info before making yourself look silly....oops too late.
Looks great, that's everything I want in an MMORPG.
The main point is just because you dont' like it don't mean everyone else dont' want it.
Sigh, the whole 21th century is fucked, at least for MMORPGs. Gotta put up with these kiddy MMORPGs that are dumbed down. People think they like WoW, probably the D2 crowd who never played real MMORPGs that involve risk, challenge, etc.
Looks like RTS games will be the only challenging genre left after MMORPG companies dumb things down for all of you.
I understand the feeling. I have a gay friend who have a huge crush on this good looking guy. But that guy is straight and is dating this hot girl.
He keeps telling me how he wish everyone is gay. Keep it up bro. Eventhough the market is smaller, I'm sure you'll find a mmorpg you like.
Looks great, that's everything I want in an MMORPG.
How about a big green button labelled "I WIN!" which, when you press it, automates your character completely for you, and you could just drop into the game every few days to see how you're doing. Sounds right up your street.
Looks great, that's everything I want in an MMORPG.
How about a big green button labelled "I WIN!" which, when you press it, automates your character completely for you, and you could just drop into the game every few days to see how you're doing. Sounds right up your street.
you really aren't very smart are you?
The only thing your right about is its not a WoW killer. No body knows the sub numbers. But yes its the 2nd largest mmo and no it will probably have more subs than eve.
i think its still early to think of Aion's fate. Give the game about 6 months to see what direction NCsoft is going to take this game as well as more information for future plans.