To be honest at the very moment i am in a black hole of no mmo gaming.....it sucks but im not sure what to play next. I was just playing Vanguard but the grind got to me........before that i was playing TCOS but it failed. Im thinking of giving fallen earth a try but im waiting for a trial week so i can try it out before dishing 50 bucks, Let's ... dissect what you dislike about WOW:
Point 1: awful boring combat? Most people find that WOW has the best responsive and fastest reactive controls of any mmorpg. It is as much based on fast reflexes as it is based on knowing the abilities and counter abilities of the other classes. 70 points of talent setting in 3 main branches makes it incredible diverse (playing a healer, a dps or a pure tank within ONE character is awesome) That's why it has a ladder based competition btw within fixed settings and a fixed controllable compettion. ESPN wide even. 200.000 dollars tournaments IN and out of the game. So you have a personal opinion, but clearly not founded on what the rest of this industry mostly considers. Point 2. Immature player base. Sorry but a social study of ... 2.000.000 US only citizens proves you wrong. http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/ So if you think that ALL adults in our game are "immature", chances are it's the other way around: you can't adept to the majority of our society (mostly it IS the other way around you know). Point 3. Unfulflilling crafting system. One word ,no explanation makes this a cheap excuse. Two options here: you can craft to make money and buy things: once an economy professor said that the economy of Azeroth could be something ol' Greenspan would envy. The AH ... in WOW functions. You can make huge amounts of money with gathering professions and crafting. The second option is - apart from the money - you can make helicopters, motorbikes (to sell on the AH), flying carpets, invisible trinkets... In fact in the lastest expansion alone there were 1100(!) NEW recipies to craft. Surely puts everything in perspective. So your one word is nothing short of ... "short" isn't there ? Point 4. Cartoonish graphs. They were updated with every expansion. Take basic WOW modules and the latest Wotlk objects. Polygons times 10. It is an art style btw. In video games you talk about visuals, not pixels. Impressionism is an art style, the Flint Stones is an art style, Art primes pixels EVERY time. In RL and in videogames. Point 5.Boring quests Wotlk quest designs were miles above the previous expansions. Tx to many NEW techniques. Phasing (the changing of the worlds around you - be it for good - or temporarely), underwater, flying skies, mounted combat, driving vehicules, bombardments, recce quests, long quest chains with in game cinematics, open world PVP quests with a PVE theme (tell me how can a daily open world PvP quest with a pve theme be ... boring anyway ?). Etc. All things you won't find in the competition. Why ? because of lack of resources (no underwater, no extensive flying, no open world, no phasing techniques known). So there you have it really. All facts and an analysis of your 5 rather meaningless one word (and certainly unfounded) Wow hate. I guess you leveled something to level 18 and thought you knew WOW. Sorry if I just put some order and thoughts in those "words" of yours. It's perhaps time you do that yourself.
lol...............why did you waste your time writing all this and then at the end say
"I guess you leveled something to level 18 and thought you knew WoW"
all the crap you wrote and you compltely just showed your true colors by writing this. Why try and write a post with cough* "facts" about a game made for entertainment that should not be taken as seriously as you do and then end it with a blatent nerd raging assumption unfounded and certainly untrue.
Think about what your saying........
my opinion is combat is very boring due to the very slow auto attack, the press 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3 over and over again repetitivness, no death penalty that actually matters and never being in danger of dying. How is this OPINION wrong?
and you wrote "my facts say that the universal truth on the matter is it is not boring!!" "therfore your opinion is wrong!!!" this is just sad.
Get a life and go get some sunshine...i think you have been inside too long playing WoW.
Dude arguing a point with Zorndorf is useless as his fanatic zeal of posting with x-fire numbers that mean nothing and reviews thinking they actually mean anything.
My favorite mmorpg argument, the one I see brought up the most, is the gamer that plays a game and doesn't like it. He/she plays it for an hour, or day, or week, and quits, then comes onto mmorpg.com and posts about how the game sucks. Another gamer says you only played it for a week, you can't have an informed opinion unless youve played it at least a month, or 6 months, or a year. That's when the "fun" kicks in. So that player plays the game for a year and comes back and makes a post saying the game sucks. Another gamer posts, well, you played it for a year, you must have liked it. This WoW love/hate argument is the same thing. You can't win. People either hate it with a rabid frothing at the mouth passion or love it so much it hurts to be away from it.
...or they hate it with a frothing at the mouth because it hurts to be away from it.
I dunno. I was one of the lucky ones. I played it almost nonstop for 3 months. Then one day, I sat in front of my PC, logged in, and asked myself, "why am I doing this?". Logged off, dropped my sub and never looked back.
Many people pretend to hate what's popular, then quite often, slink off into their basement to partake in it.
I particularly like the comments like, "almost everybody hates WoW". There may be some truth to that on this board, but it's certainly not the case in the mainstream. If anybody dares consider this board to be "everybody", that would be a view askew...
Wow is popular despite there being better MMO's, for the same reason Ipods are popular despite there being better mp3 players. It penetrated the mainstream first. It offered the most, first, in a way that was accessible by the masses. Then it followed up by NOT screwing with a winning formula.
Something may topple it someday. I don't think it will come to be due to a game with completely different, innovative gameplay, though. I think it will come via the next big step in technology. When the whole US has wireless broadband, perhaps, the next big thing will come that can be played on portable devices and phones. Perhaps it will be the first good console MMO that kills it.
A game where you can do a number of things via browser might be the way forward. CO and Eve seem to be on the right track with this, but it has to go much further. Give us guid chat, the auction hall, maybe even some crafting, so that we're never productive at work ever again...
I do not like Nickelback because the music is bland, simple and i dont connect with the lyrics I do not like Titanic because it is long, overdramatic, uncreative and boring I do not like WoW becasue of the awfully boring combat, the immature playerbase, the unfulfiling crafting system, the cartoonish graphics, boring quests etc..... I dont get why people cant get that some people dont like WoW and otehr popular things for pretty simple reasons with no underlying physcological probing.
Scientology must be correct b/c millions of people follow that cough* religion!!!!!
Hey what MMORPG game you play? Feel me in
To be honest at the very moment i am in a black hole of no mmo gaming.....it sucks but im not sure what to play next. I was just playing Vanguard but the grind got to me........before that i was playing TCOS but it failed. Im thinking of giving fallen earth a try but im waiting for a trial week so i can try it out before dishing 50 bucks,
Let's ... dissect what you dislike about WOW:
Point 1: awful boring combat? Most people find that WOW has the best responsive and fastest reactive controls of any mmorpg. It is as much based on fast reflexes as it is based on knowing the abilities and counter abilities of the other classes. 70 points of talent setting in 3 main branches makes it incredible diverse (playing a healer, a dps or a pure tank within ONE character is awesome)
That's why it has a ladder based competition btw within fixed settings and a fixed controllable compettion. ESPN wide even. 200.000 dollars tournaments IN and out of the game.
So you have a personal opinion, but clearly not founded on what the rest of this industry mostly considers.
So if you think that ALL adults in our game are "immature", chances are it's the other way around: you can't adept to the majority of our society (mostly it IS the other way around you know).
Point 3. Unfulflilling crafting system. One word ,no explanation makes this a cheap excuse. Two options here: you can craft to make money and buy things: once an economy professor said that the economy of Azeroth could be something ol' Greenspan would envy. The AH ... in WOW functions. You can make huge amounts of money with gathering professions and crafting.
The second option is - apart from the money - you can make helicopters, motorbikes (to sell on the AH), flying carpets, invisible trinkets...
In fact in the lastest expansion alone there were 1100(!) NEW recipies to craft. Surely puts everything in perspective.
So your one word is nothing short of ... "short" isn't there ?
Point 4. Cartoonish graphs. They were updated with every expansion. Take basic WOW modules and the latest Wotlk objects. Polygons times 10. It is an art style btw. In video games you talk about visuals, not pixels. Impressionism is an art style, the Flint Stones is an art style, Art primes pixels EVERY time. In RL and in videogames.
Point 5.Boring quests Wotlk quest designs were miles above the previous expansions. Tx to many NEW techniques. Phasing (the changing of the worlds around you - be it for good - or temporarely), underwater, flying skies, mounted combat, driving vehicules, bombardments, recce quests, long quest chains with in game cinematics, open world PVP quests with a PVE theme (tell me how can a daily open world PvP quest with a pve theme be ... boring anyway ?).
Etc. All things you won't find in the competition. Why ? because of lack of resources (no underwater, no extensive flying, no open world, no phasing techniques known).
So there you have it really.
All facts and an analysis of your 5 rather meaningless one word (and certainly unfounded) Wow hate.
I guess you leveled something to level 18 and thought you knew WOW.
Sorry if I just put some order and thoughts in those "words" of yours. It's perhaps time you do that yourself.
Mind if I copy and Paste this on another forum?
Cause Iam tired of Fanboys of new MMOs hatting on the idea, of Good things from WoW being added to those games. I remember Warhammer Beta fanboys would flame the crap out of me, even the mobs ban me for suggesting ideas similar to WoW. The aged old forum reply "Go Back To WoW" gets thrown around like crazy.
oh man now we waked up such a wow pro i metioned that thinks his keyboard face rolling skills take a study of 5 years as i said before if your have fun with it keep going and i do my stuff but in the end it makes wow not more complicated as it is follow your quest marks do your dungeon stuffs with your mob ai tactics that will impress no longtime mmo vet you can talk so much how hard wow is but its not,even most of your own people dont claim it as hard content anymore since wotlk but yeah ... i need to play 5 years wow to have a clue :O
Whatever, you'll probably die in the first fire anyway. Too bad that will burn your identity of a badass MMO vet :<
Most people, fans and critics do IN FACT praise WOW's combat system. It was recognized instantly as a step up from older MMOs and is still pretty unrivaled today in its turn based style. If WOW"s combat is boring 99% of MMOs have boring combat as well. What other MMO have paid tournaments based around its combat system? A BORING game wouldn't have this attention.
The playerbase CAN be immature but it also has millions of mature grown adults. More than any other MMO. THIS is a FACT!!! EVE can have an immature playerbase as well. Are they ALL immature? Certainly not.
Its crafting system is very robust with LOADS of variety. Are people dependant upon it? Is the game centered around it? No not at all, which could be considered unfullfilling to some people. But that doesn't take away from it being a big part of the game for many people, who obviously enjoy it. I never found crafting even slightly amusing in any MMO before playing WOW. It was always a job. WOW made crafting accessible and fun to those who never found crafting interesting before. When you have millions of players, you don't make creating only interesting to a few thousand of them. You make it interesting for most of them.
WOW has a very specific art style. If its cartoonish, then so is EQ, UO, DOAC, COH, WAR, Aion and most other MMOs, because NONE of them besides maybe AOC or EVE resemble anything even close to realistic and even thats pushing it. Its called being stylized. "Cartoonish" is just an immature person's way of trying to diminish a style they don't like.
The boring quests is just a opinion. If WOW's quests are boring then EVERY MMO has boring quests, so you might as well discount someone so fickle. EVERY RPG has boring quests for that matter, because WOW' covers the full spectrum of what you can do with a quest in a MMO. WOW has always pushed the bounderies as to what you can do with quests in a MMO.
So again, if someone is going to mindlessly bash a game, at least try to do it in an informed way=)
I played WoW for a few years and really enjoyed it. I can still recall some great times I had. Further, I am still in touch with some of the members of my old guild, in other games and even in real life. I don’t view my experiences playing WoW in a particularly negative light. Sure there were some things I disliked about the game, but generally I had fun.
Not too long ago I stopped playing WoW and started playing EvE instead. Now I thoroughly enjoy my time playing EvE. I stopped playing WoW because I no longer enjoyed it. There were plenty of reasons for this, but honestly, they’re inconsequential next to the fact that I simply stopped having fun.
All of the facts about subs, content, graphics, etc don’t mean much to me because I stopped enjoying the game. Does this make me a WoW hater? Not really. Are there plenty of things related to content, graphics, and subs which I could complain about? Yes. Would it make any difference? Not one.
The real fact is all of those stats, numbers, links and articles don’t mean anything to the person who just stopped enjoying playing. To me, WoW is not the “best” game out there and I don’t have to explain or justify why, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference and I won’t be playing it again.
I think that “WoW hate” is a sort of myth. Of course there are trolls and people out there who just want to bash the game, but I’d bet there are far fewer of them than people think. What are really out there, are people like myself, who for whatever reason stopped playing. What causes (or incites) the myth of “WoW hate” are people like Zorndorf.
These forums are a place for people to come and discuss a topic of common interest, video games (and more specifically here, WoW). That includes sharing reasons that you lost interest or stopped playing – it is an open discussion after all.
However, people like Zorndorf take any and all constructive, negative or subjective comments and run them through a ringer of facts, stats, insults, etc, inevitably inciting anger and hostility in people who just wanted to share their opinion. And don’t be fooled, personal opinion IS important. This is the factor that ultimately drives someone to continue playing a game – their like or dislike of it, no matter how subjective.
Criticism is crucial to the growth of a product as it creates a dialogue for discussing improvements. The irony is that if all of these criticism were dissected and flatly dismissed (as Zorndorf would like to have it) the game of WoW that so many people love, would not exist.
Ultimately everyone should play the game that they love to play, for no other reason than they love to play it.
I played WoW for a few years and really enjoyed it. I can still recall some great times I had. Further, I am still in touch with some of the members of my old guild, in other games and even in real life. I don’t view my experiences playing WoW in a particularly negative light. Sure there were some things I disliked about the game, but generally I had fun. Not too long ago I stopped playing WoW and started playing EvE instead. Now I thoroughly enjoy my time playing EvE. I stopped playing WoW because I no longer enjoyed it. There were plenty of reasons for this, but honestly, they’re inconsequential next to the fact that I simply stopped having fun. All of the facts about subs, content, graphics, etc don’t mean much to me because I stopped enjoying the game. Does this make me a WoW hater? Not really. Are there plenty of things related to content, graphics, and subs which I could complain about? Yes. Would it make any difference? Not one. The real fact is all of those stats, numbers, links and articles don’t mean anything to the person who just stopped enjoying playing. To me, WoW is not the “best” game out there and I don’t have to explain or justify why, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference and I won’t be playing it again. I think that “WoW hate” is a sort of myth. Of course there are trolls and people out there who just want to bash the game, but I’d bet there are far fewer of them than people think. What are really out there, are people like myself, who for whatever reason stopped playing. What causes (or incites) the myth of “WoW hate” are people like Zorndorf. These forums are a place for people to come and discuss a topic of common interest, video games (and more specifically here, WoW). That includes sharing reasons that you lost interest or stopped playing – it is an open discussion after all.
However, people like Zorndorf take any and all constructive, negative or subjective comments and run them through a ringer of facts, stats, insults, etc, inevitably inciting anger and hostility in people who just wanted to share their opinion. And don’t be fooled, personal opinion IS important. This is the factor that ultimately drives someone to continue playing a game – their like or dislike of it, no matter how subjective. Criticism is crucial to the growth of a product as it creates a dialogue for discussing improvements. The irony is that if all of these criticism were dissected and flatly dismissed (as Zorndorf would like to have it) the game of WoW that so many people love, would not exist. Ultimately everyone should play the game that they love to play, for no other reason than they love to play it.
Iam sorry but you are missing the point. There are a lot of WoW haters here and on just about all MMORPG gaming sites.
Many people jump to call WoW a Bad game, yet they played for years and just got bored.
If I like walking, but walked non stop for a year(360 days) iam sure i would get bored and tired at some point as well. Does that make Walking bad? no, just tired of doing it. <---- Same example of most of these WoW hater post.
And many people havnt even exp any of WoTLK gameplay nor its End Game. So how in the world can they call it a bad game, if they never played it?
Then I see crap like "WoW is Easy Mode Bah BAh BAH!!!!" most of these same people never made it to nether TBC End Game, nor WoTLK End Game. " Blizzard even had to nerf end Game TBC bosses near the end of that X-pac, because less then 10% of the community even made it to Illidan for crying out loud (Pre Nerf)
I dont play WoW anymore. But not cause its a bad game, but because Iam tired of it! And yet there is nowhere to turn to, cause none of the other games out here have a great PvE/PvP mixed system. GW2 has my interest only cause its F2P.
But anyway, there are a lot of Anti-WoW Fanboys out there. And most of these haters complain just about anything they find similar to WoW added to their Fav game. Problem with this logic is,,,,,
BLIZZARD STEALS GREAT IDEAS FROM OTHER GAMES!!!!!
So if your going to hate a idea only because its in WoW, then your holding your fav game back, from becoming better. Because if its a good idea, you can be damn sure Blizzard will steal it, and put it in WoW, and the cycle starts all over.
Iav seen haters even complain about Mounts in a MMORPG, because they say stupid things like "That will make it a WoW clone Bah Bah Bah" and other stupid BS like that. As if WoW invented Mounts (For FuOuLo!!)
I played WoW for a few years and really enjoyed it. I can still recall some great times I had. Further, I am still in touch with some of the members of my old guild, in other games and even in real life. I don’t view my experiences playing WoW in a particularly negative light. Sure there were some things I disliked about the game, but generally I had fun. Not too long ago I stopped playing WoW and started playing EvE instead. Now I thoroughly enjoy my time playing EvE. I stopped playing WoW because I no longer enjoyed it. There were plenty of reasons for this, but honestly, they’re inconsequential next to the fact that I simply stopped having fun. All of the facts about subs, content, graphics, etc don’t mean much to me because I stopped enjoying the game. Does this make me a WoW hater? Not really. Are there plenty of things related to content, graphics, and subs which I could complain about? Yes. Would it make any difference? Not one. The real fact is all of those stats, numbers, links and articles don’t mean anything to the person who just stopped enjoying playing. To me, WoW is not the “best” game out there and I don’t have to explain or justify why, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference and I won’t be playing it again. I think that “WoW hate” is a sort of myth. Of course there are trolls and people out there who just want to bash the game, but I’d bet there are far fewer of them than people think. What are really out there, are people like myself, who for whatever reason stopped playing. What causes (or incites) the myth of “WoW hate” are people like Zorndorf. These forums are a place for people to come and discuss a topic of common interest, video games (and more specifically here, WoW). That includes sharing reasons that you lost interest or stopped playing – it is an open discussion after all.
However, people like Zorndorf take any and all constructive, negative or subjective comments and run them through a ringer of facts, stats, insults, etc, inevitably inciting anger and hostility in people who just wanted to share their opinion. And don’t be fooled, personal opinion IS important. This is the factor that ultimately drives someone to continue playing a game – their like or dislike of it, no matter how subjective. Criticism is crucial to the growth of a product as it creates a dialogue for discussing improvements. The irony is that if all of these criticism were dissected and flatly dismissed (as Zorndorf would like to have it) the game of WoW that so many people love, would not exist. Ultimately everyone should play the game that they love to play, for no other reason than they love to play it.
You’re response does a very good job of illustrating my exact point.
Also, I hope that wasn’t an attempt to quote me, as I never said that I don’t think WoW is a good game. I said that I don’t enjoy playing it anymore.
Further, your assertion that personal option of the game is worthless shows extreme naivety.
It’s people’s personal option and enjoyment of the game that have a direct result in them continuing to play. Why do you think games like EvE, CoX and even SWG have subs? Because people enjoy playing them, regardless of all of the stats, figures, links, etc that you love to post about why WoW is better.
I would argue that a person’s personal opinion holds far more weight than any “facts” you can drudge up. Especially if that person can share those opinions with someone that they have a lot in common with, as they will likely share similar points of view. In fact, I think if you asked a lot of people why they started playing a certain MMO they would probably say it was because someone they knew told them about it - not because they checked out a spreadsheet showcasing a bunch of stats about how many subs the game currently has.
Bullying a person with stats in order to catch them conflicting themselves or in some sort of semantic trap is not holding a mirror up to anything. It’s bullying, period. The fact that it’s bullying on the Internet makes it particularly sad.
Finally, this thread is not about “gaming and MMO’s in general” it’s about the reasons behind WoW hating. I offered a pretty solid argument as to what I believe to be the myth of WoW hating and how people, like you, who aggressively attack anyone who says anything negative about WoW, propagate it.
I hope others in the WoW community will soon realize that this type of behavior does nothing to help your game. Rather, anyone with any real sense, reading this thread, would take one look at the hostile negativity towards any criticism and stay far away. A game NEEDS criticism to grow, and the game WoW is TODAY would not exist without said criticism.
Iam sorry but you are missing the point. There are a lot of WoW haters here and on just about all MMORPG gaming sites.
Many people jump to call WoW a Bad game, yet they played for years and just got bored.
If I like walking, but walked non stop for a year(360 days) iam sure i would get bored and tired at some point as well. Does that make Walking bad? no, just tired of doing it. <---- Same example of most of these WoW hater post.
And many people havnt even exp any of WoTLK gameplay nor its End Game. So how in the world can they call it a bad game, if they never played it?
Then I see crap like "WoW is Easy Mode Bah BAh BAH!!!!" most of these same people never made it to nether TBC End Game, nor WoTLK End Game. " Blizzard even had to nerf end Game TBC bosses near the end of that X-pac, because less then 10% of the community even made it to Illidan for crying out loud (Pre Nerf)
I dont play WoW anymore. But not cause its a bad game, but because Iam tired of it! And yet there is nowhere to turn to, cause none of the other games out here have a great PvE/PvP mixed system. GW2 has my interest only cause its F2P.
But anyway, there are a lot of Anti-WoW Fanboys out there. And most of these haters complain just about anything they find similar to WoW added to their Fav game. Problem with this logic is,,,,,
BLIZZARD STEALS GREAT IDEAS FROM OTHER GAMES!!!!!
So if your going to hate a idea only because its in WoW, then your holding your fav game back, from becoming better. Because if its a good idea, you can be damn sure Blizzard will steal it, and put it in WoW, and the cycle starts all over.
Iav seen haters even complain about Mounts in a MMORPG, because they say stupid things like "That will make it a WoW clone Bah Bah Bah" and other stupid BS like that. As if WoW invented Mounts (For FuOuLo!!)
I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.
Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.
My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.
It's pretty simple why there is "WOW" hate. It's the same reason every game on this forum has hate threads. They get a responce from all the fans trying to disprove the hate. Funny thing is all they end up doing is keeping the hate thread afloat for a few days thus drawing attention to it and validating it's existance.
If you don't want to see hate thread after hate thread pop up the best thing you can do is ignore it. Thats right ignore it. Sure pop in and read it for a good chuckle about what some poor person thinks is wrong with the world. Then leave without responding and go back to playing a game you enjoy. Pretty soon the hate poster/s will get bored with agreeing with themselves and leave on their own.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
I actually think WoW is a pretty good game but when Blizzard starts touting subscription numbers after 5 years making people think they have 11 mill actually playing I just have to give them the old /facepalm not to mention how they just copy everyone else's hard work. I just wish for once they actually make something that is their own and not a copy of somoene else's hard work.
Let's put it the simple way. People are NOT rating Blizzard as they do with the other publishers on the market. Period Period. Wow introduced in just the last months the following: - leveling through PvP (guys AV from 60 to 79 is a must these days. You have to be in there to believe it). - joining the BG's from anywhere (to avoid the "grind feeling" of pve leveling if you're not on a pvp server). - dual specs (healers/tanks/dps you name it : it runs the game). - everyone and his dog do raids and hi end heroics these days. EVERYONE,... so much the sentence "no more instances can be launched" is a standard these days.... - And the next revolution is clustered dungeon servers. A lfg tool the size of 20 servers ...enter ... CATA. ---OK that was just 4 months of latest "trivial" additions and news.... --------> Now think of the following: ..... suppose it was Blizzard who put out Aion or Fallen Earth.... I think the world would go mad. To come back to the OP's question: it's the same why people hate Microsoft, why people hate the president, why people hate everything that stands for domination and power. But seeing through it ... everyone knows it's a damned good game paid by millions just to play it.
I actually think WoW is a pretty good game but when Blizzard starts touting subscription numbers after 5 years making people think they have 11 mill actually playing I just have to give them the old /facepalm not to mention how they just copy everyone else's hard work. I just wish for once they actually make something that is their own and not a copy of somoene else's hard work.
Diablo, Warcraft ?(rts) Atleast I don't think they were copies, I could be wrong I'm not that old ^^
I actually think WoW is a pretty good game but when Blizzard starts touting subscription numbers after 5 years making people think they have 11 mill actually playing I just have to give them the old /facepalm not to mention how they just copy everyone else's hard work. I just wish for once they actually make something that is their own and not a copy of somoene else's hard work.
Diablo, Warcraft ?(rts) Atleast I don't think they were copies, I could be wrong I'm not that old ^^
Diablo and Diablo 2 was a creation of Blizzard North. Blizzard in Irvine only published it. Warcraft = Warhammer. Starcraft = Warhammer 40k.
I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.
Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.
My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.
I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.
Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.
My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.
And these are the people we are targeting.
This may be true for you, but not for folks like Zorndorf.
I have no issue with defending the game you love…from actual attacks. But, what is really happening most of the time (as I’ve shown with my post and the subsequent response to it) is someone comes on these forums and offers their opinion about the enjoyment (or lack of) that they experienced playing the game; they are then immediately set upon by stat-mongers who seek to debase this opinion at all cost, using such high moral ground as “holding a mirror up” to these posters to show them the error in their opinion.
Often times the defense comes in the form of trying to catch this person in some insignificant conflict or semantic trap. As I stated in the section of my post that you highlighted: these facts and stats do not amount to making opinion or enjoyment of the game obsolete as valid criticism. Also, what these rabid defenders fail to see is that opinion and enjoyment, beyond any stats, facts, links, spreadsheets, etc is what really keeps players coming back.
So if someone states that they don’t enjoy playing anymore, that’s a valid reason in and of itself. Further, it’s this exact criticism and opinion of enjoyment that I’m sure game developers consult when looking to improve the game because, as I’ve said already, that’s the bottom line as to what makes someone continue to play, or not.
People like Zorndorf are so tied up in their rabid fanboyism, bullying any negative opinion of their game with a landslide of meaningless numbers, that they fail to see that this criticism from others is integral in developing the game. In fact, it’s been integral in making the game what it is today. If all criticism of the game were suddenly silenced, it would die.
Finally this leads me to my original point in answering the thread topic, which is: I believe that “WoW hate” is somewhat of a myth (at least in the sense of it being as widespread as people think) that is propagated by individuals like Zorndorf who bully and insult people offering their opinion of the game, inciting anger, which in turn becomes misdirected, and thus misinterpreted, as “WoW hate”.
Comments
lol...............why did you waste your time writing all this and then at the end say
"I guess you leveled something to level 18 and thought you knew WoW"
all the crap you wrote and you compltely just showed your true colors by writing this. Why try and write a post with cough* "facts" about a game made for entertainment that should not be taken as seriously as you do and then end it with a blatent nerd raging assumption unfounded and certainly untrue.
Think about what your saying........
my opinion is combat is very boring due to the very slow auto attack, the press 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3 over and over again repetitivness, no death penalty that actually matters and never being in danger of dying. How is this OPINION wrong?
and you wrote "my facts say that the universal truth on the matter is it is not boring!!" "therfore your opinion is wrong!!!" this is just sad.
Get a life and go get some sunshine...i think you have been inside too long playing WoW.
Dude arguing a point with Zorndorf is useless as his fanatic zeal of posting with x-fire numbers that mean nothing and reviews thinking they actually mean anything.
...or they hate it with a frothing at the mouth because it hurts to be away from it.
I dunno. I was one of the lucky ones. I played it almost nonstop for 3 months. Then one day, I sat in front of my PC, logged in, and asked myself, "why am I doing this?". Logged off, dropped my sub and never looked back.
Many people pretend to hate what's popular, then quite often, slink off into their basement to partake in it.
I particularly like the comments like, "almost everybody hates WoW". There may be some truth to that on this board, but it's certainly not the case in the mainstream. If anybody dares consider this board to be "everybody", that would be a view askew...
Wow is popular despite there being better MMO's, for the same reason Ipods are popular despite there being better mp3 players. It penetrated the mainstream first. It offered the most, first, in a way that was accessible by the masses. Then it followed up by NOT screwing with a winning formula.
Something may topple it someday. I don't think it will come to be due to a game with completely different, innovative gameplay, though. I think it will come via the next big step in technology. When the whole US has wireless broadband, perhaps, the next big thing will come that can be played on portable devices and phones. Perhaps it will be the first good console MMO that kills it.
A game where you can do a number of things via browser might be the way forward. CO and Eve seem to be on the right track with this, but it has to go much further. Give us guid chat, the auction hall, maybe even some crafting, so that we're never productive at work ever again...
Hey what MMORPG game you play? Feel me in
To be honest at the very moment i am in a black hole of no mmo gaming.....it sucks but im not sure what to play next. I was just playing Vanguard but the grind got to me........before that i was playing TCOS but it failed. Im thinking of giving fallen earth a try but im waiting for a trial week so i can try it out before dishing 50 bucks,
Let's ... dissect what you dislike about WOW:
Point 1: awful boring combat? Most people find that WOW has the best responsive and fastest reactive controls of any mmorpg. It is as much based on fast reflexes as it is based on knowing the abilities and counter abilities of the other classes. 70 points of talent setting in 3 main branches makes it incredible diverse (playing a healer, a dps or a pure tank within ONE character is awesome)
That's why it has a ladder based competition btw within fixed settings and a fixed controllable compettion. ESPN wide even. 200.000 dollars tournaments IN and out of the game.
So you have a personal opinion, but clearly not founded on what the rest of this industry mostly considers.
Point 2. Immature player base. Sorry but a social study of ... 2.000.000 US only citizens proves you wrong. http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/
So if you think that ALL adults in our game are "immature", chances are it's the other way around: you can't adept to the majority of our society (mostly it IS the other way around you know).
Point 3. Unfulflilling crafting system. One word ,no explanation makes this a cheap excuse. Two options here: you can craft to make money and buy things: once an economy professor said that the economy of Azeroth could be something ol' Greenspan would envy. The AH ... in WOW functions. You can make huge amounts of money with gathering professions and crafting.
The second option is - apart from the money - you can make helicopters, motorbikes (to sell on the AH), flying carpets, invisible trinkets...
In fact in the lastest expansion alone there were 1100(!) NEW recipies to craft. Surely puts everything in perspective.
So your one word is nothing short of ... "short" isn't there ?
Point 4. Cartoonish graphs. They were updated with every expansion. Take basic WOW modules and the latest Wotlk objects. Polygons times 10. It is an art style btw. In video games you talk about visuals, not pixels. Impressionism is an art style, the Flint Stones is an art style, Art primes pixels EVERY time. In RL and in videogames.
Point 5.Boring quests Wotlk quest designs were miles above the previous expansions. Tx to many NEW techniques. Phasing (the changing of the worlds around you - be it for good - or temporarely), underwater, flying skies, mounted combat, driving vehicules, bombardments, recce quests, long quest chains with in game cinematics, open world PVP quests with a PVE theme (tell me how can a daily open world PvP quest with a pve theme be ... boring anyway ?).
Etc. All things you won't find in the competition. Why ? because of lack of resources (no underwater, no extensive flying, no open world, no phasing techniques known).
So there you have it really.
All facts and an analysis of your 5 rather meaningless one word (and certainly unfounded) Wow hate.
I guess you leveled something to level 18 and thought you knew WOW.
Sorry if I just put some order and thoughts in those "words" of yours. It's perhaps time you do that yourself.
Mind if I copy and Paste this on another forum?
Cause Iam tired of Fanboys of new MMOs hatting on the idea, of Good things from WoW being added to those games. I remember Warhammer Beta fanboys would flame the crap out of me, even the mobs ban me for suggesting ideas similar to WoW. The aged old forum reply "Go Back To WoW" gets thrown around like crazy.
Whatever, you'll probably die in the first fire anyway. Too bad that will burn your identity of a badass MMO vet :<
yeah most games get boring after awhile but usually they last about 2-3years if not less
aminabumaye
That still doenst mean its a bad game.
Most people, fans and critics do IN FACT praise WOW's combat system. It was recognized instantly as a step up from older MMOs and is still pretty unrivaled today in its turn based style. If WOW"s combat is boring 99% of MMOs have boring combat as well. What other MMO have paid tournaments based around its combat system? A BORING game wouldn't have this attention.
The playerbase CAN be immature but it also has millions of mature grown adults. More than any other MMO. THIS is a FACT!!! EVE can have an immature playerbase as well. Are they ALL immature? Certainly not.
Its crafting system is very robust with LOADS of variety. Are people dependant upon it? Is the game centered around it? No not at all, which could be considered unfullfilling to some people. But that doesn't take away from it being a big part of the game for many people, who obviously enjoy it. I never found crafting even slightly amusing in any MMO before playing WOW. It was always a job. WOW made crafting accessible and fun to those who never found crafting interesting before. When you have millions of players, you don't make creating only interesting to a few thousand of them. You make it interesting for most of them.
WOW has a very specific art style. If its cartoonish, then so is EQ, UO, DOAC, COH, WAR, Aion and most other MMOs, because NONE of them besides maybe AOC or EVE resemble anything even close to realistic and even thats pushing it. Its called being stylized. "Cartoonish" is just an immature person's way of trying to diminish a style they don't like.
The boring quests is just a opinion. If WOW's quests are boring then EVERY MMO has boring quests, so you might as well discount someone so fickle. EVERY RPG has boring quests for that matter, because WOW' covers the full spectrum of what you can do with a quest in a MMO. WOW has always pushed the bounderies as to what you can do with quests in a MMO.
So again, if someone is going to mindlessly bash a game, at least try to do it in an informed way=)
I played WoW for a few years and really enjoyed it. I can still recall some great times I had. Further, I am still in touch with some of the members of my old guild, in other games and even in real life. I don’t view my experiences playing WoW in a particularly negative light. Sure there were some things I disliked about the game, but generally I had fun.
Not too long ago I stopped playing WoW and started playing EvE instead. Now I thoroughly enjoy my time playing EvE. I stopped playing WoW because I no longer enjoyed it. There were plenty of reasons for this, but honestly, they’re inconsequential next to the fact that I simply stopped having fun.
All of the facts about subs, content, graphics, etc don’t mean much to me because I stopped enjoying the game. Does this make me a WoW hater? Not really. Are there plenty of things related to content, graphics, and subs which I could complain about? Yes. Would it make any difference? Not one.
The real fact is all of those stats, numbers, links and articles don’t mean anything to the person who just stopped enjoying playing. To me, WoW is not the “best” game out there and I don’t have to explain or justify why, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference and I won’t be playing it again.
I think that “WoW hate” is a sort of myth. Of course there are trolls and people out there who just want to bash the game, but I’d bet there are far fewer of them than people think. What are really out there, are people like myself, who for whatever reason stopped playing. What causes (or incites) the myth of “WoW hate” are people like Zorndorf.
These forums are a place for people to come and discuss a topic of common interest, video games (and more specifically here, WoW). That includes sharing reasons that you lost interest or stopped playing – it is an open discussion after all.
However, people like Zorndorf take any and all constructive, negative or subjective comments and run them through a ringer of facts, stats, insults, etc, inevitably inciting anger and hostility in people who just wanted to share their opinion. And don’t be fooled, personal opinion IS important. This is the factor that ultimately drives someone to continue playing a game – their like or dislike of it, no matter how subjective.
Criticism is crucial to the growth of a product as it creates a dialogue for discussing improvements. The irony is that if all of these criticism were dissected and flatly dismissed (as Zorndorf would like to have it) the game of WoW that so many people love, would not exist.
Ultimately everyone should play the game that they love to play, for no other reason than they love to play it.
Iam sorry but you are missing the point. There are a lot of WoW haters here and on just about all MMORPG gaming sites.
Many people jump to call WoW a Bad game, yet they played for years and just got bored.
If I like walking, but walked non stop for a year(360 days) iam sure i would get bored and tired at some point as well. Does that make Walking bad? no, just tired of doing it. <---- Same example of most of these WoW hater post.
And many people havnt even exp any of WoTLK gameplay nor its End Game. So how in the world can they call it a bad game, if they never played it?
Then I see crap like "WoW is Easy Mode Bah BAh BAH!!!!" most of these same people never made it to nether TBC End Game, nor WoTLK End Game. " Blizzard even had to nerf end Game TBC bosses near the end of that X-pac, because less then 10% of the community even made it to Illidan for crying out loud (Pre Nerf)
I dont play WoW anymore. But not cause its a bad game, but because Iam tired of it! And yet there is nowhere to turn to, cause none of the other games out here have a great PvE/PvP mixed system. GW2 has my interest only cause its F2P.
But anyway, there are a lot of Anti-WoW Fanboys out there. And most of these haters complain just about anything they find similar to WoW added to their Fav game. Problem with this logic is,,,,,
BLIZZARD STEALS GREAT IDEAS FROM OTHER GAMES!!!!!
So if your going to hate a idea only because its in WoW, then your holding your fav game back, from becoming better. Because if its a good idea, you can be damn sure Blizzard will steal it, and put it in WoW, and the cycle starts all over.
Iav seen haters even complain about Mounts in a MMORPG, because they say stupid things like "That will make it a WoW clone Bah Bah Bah" and other stupid BS like that. As if WoW invented Mounts (For FuOuLo!!)
You’re response does a very good job of illustrating my exact point.
Also, I hope that wasn’t an attempt to quote me, as I never said that I don’t think WoW is a good game. I said that I don’t enjoy playing it anymore.
Further, your assertion that personal option of the game is worthless shows extreme naivety.
It’s people’s personal option and enjoyment of the game that have a direct result in them continuing to play. Why do you think games like EvE, CoX and even SWG have subs? Because people enjoy playing them, regardless of all of the stats, figures, links, etc that you love to post about why WoW is better.
I would argue that a person’s personal opinion holds far more weight than any “facts” you can drudge up. Especially if that person can share those opinions with someone that they have a lot in common with, as they will likely share similar points of view. In fact, I think if you asked a lot of people why they started playing a certain MMO they would probably say it was because someone they knew told them about it - not because they checked out a spreadsheet showcasing a bunch of stats about how many subs the game currently has.
Bullying a person with stats in order to catch them conflicting themselves or in some sort of semantic trap is not holding a mirror up to anything. It’s bullying, period. The fact that it’s bullying on the Internet makes it particularly sad.
Finally, this thread is not about “gaming and MMO’s in general” it’s about the reasons behind WoW hating. I offered a pretty solid argument as to what I believe to be the myth of WoW hating and how people, like you, who aggressively attack anyone who says anything negative about WoW, propagate it.
I hope others in the WoW community will soon realize that this type of behavior does nothing to help your game. Rather, anyone with any real sense, reading this thread, would take one look at the hostile negativity towards any criticism and stay far away. A game NEEDS criticism to grow, and the game WoW is TODAY would not exist without said criticism.
Iam sorry but you are missing the point. There are a lot of WoW haters here and on just about all MMORPG gaming sites.
Many people jump to call WoW a Bad game, yet they played for years and just got bored.
If I like walking, but walked non stop for a year(360 days) iam sure i would get bored and tired at some point as well. Does that make Walking bad? no, just tired of doing it. <---- Same example of most of these WoW hater post.
And many people havnt even exp any of WoTLK gameplay nor its End Game. So how in the world can they call it a bad game, if they never played it?
Then I see crap like "WoW is Easy Mode Bah BAh BAH!!!!" most of these same people never made it to nether TBC End Game, nor WoTLK End Game. " Blizzard even had to nerf end Game TBC bosses near the end of that X-pac, because less then 10% of the community even made it to Illidan for crying out loud (Pre Nerf)
I dont play WoW anymore. But not cause its a bad game, but because Iam tired of it! And yet there is nowhere to turn to, cause none of the other games out here have a great PvE/PvP mixed system. GW2 has my interest only cause its F2P.
But anyway, there are a lot of Anti-WoW Fanboys out there. And most of these haters complain just about anything they find similar to WoW added to their Fav game. Problem with this logic is,,,,,
BLIZZARD STEALS GREAT IDEAS FROM OTHER GAMES!!!!!
So if your going to hate a idea only because its in WoW, then your holding your fav game back, from becoming better. Because if its a good idea, you can be damn sure Blizzard will steal it, and put it in WoW, and the cycle starts all over.
Iav seen haters even complain about Mounts in a MMORPG, because they say stupid things like "That will make it a WoW clone Bah Bah Bah" and other stupid BS like that. As if WoW invented Mounts (For FuOuLo!!)
I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.
Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.
My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.
It's pretty simple why there is "WOW" hate. It's the same reason every game on this forum has hate threads. They get a responce from all the fans trying to disprove the hate. Funny thing is all they end up doing is keeping the hate thread afloat for a few days thus drawing attention to it and validating it's existance.
If you don't want to see hate thread after hate thread pop up the best thing you can do is ignore it. Thats right ignore it. Sure pop in and read it for a good chuckle about what some poor person thinks is wrong with the world. Then leave without responding and go back to playing a game you enjoy. Pretty soon the hate poster/s will get bored with agreeing with themselves and leave on their own.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
I actually think WoW is a pretty good game but when Blizzard starts touting subscription numbers after 5 years making people think they have 11 mill actually playing I just have to give them the old /facepalm not to mention how they just copy everyone else's hard work. I just wish for once they actually make something that is their own and not a copy of somoene else's hard work.
Blizzard is God, It's a well known fact.
Diablo, Warcraft ?(rts) Atleast I don't think they were copies, I could be wrong I'm not that old ^^
Diablo, Warcraft ?(rts) Atleast I don't think they were copies, I could be wrong I'm not that old ^^
Diablo and Diablo 2 was a creation of Blizzard North. Blizzard in Irvine only published it. Warcraft = Warhammer. Starcraft = Warhammer 40k.
And these are the people we are targeting.
And these are the people we are targeting.
This may be true for you, but not for folks like Zorndorf.
I have no issue with defending the game you love…from actual attacks. But, what is really happening most of the time (as I’ve shown with my post and the subsequent response to it) is someone comes on these forums and offers their opinion about the enjoyment (or lack of) that they experienced playing the game; they are then immediately set upon by stat-mongers who seek to debase this opinion at all cost, using such high moral ground as “holding a mirror up” to these posters to show them the error in their opinion.
Often times the defense comes in the form of trying to catch this person in some insignificant conflict or semantic trap. As I stated in the section of my post that you highlighted: these facts and stats do not amount to making opinion or enjoyment of the game obsolete as valid criticism. Also, what these rabid defenders fail to see is that opinion and enjoyment, beyond any stats, facts, links, spreadsheets, etc is what really keeps players coming back.
So if someone states that they don’t enjoy playing anymore, that’s a valid reason in and of itself. Further, it’s this exact criticism and opinion of enjoyment that I’m sure game developers consult when looking to improve the game because, as I’ve said already, that’s the bottom line as to what makes someone continue to play, or not.
People like Zorndorf are so tied up in their rabid fanboyism, bullying any negative opinion of their game with a landslide of meaningless numbers, that they fail to see that this criticism from others is integral in developing the game. In fact, it’s been integral in making the game what it is today. If all criticism of the game were suddenly silenced, it would die.
Finally this leads me to my original point in answering the thread topic, which is: I believe that “WoW hate” is somewhat of a myth (at least in the sense of it being as widespread as people think) that is propagated by individuals like Zorndorf who bully and insult people offering their opinion of the game, inciting anger, which in turn becomes misdirected, and thus misinterpreted, as “WoW hate”.