entertainer class and mmorpg

blueshadow

One of the professions or class in a MMORPG that I find truly unique is the Entertainer of SWG.

A class designed to be 100% social. You dance or play music in the cantina. Added Imagedesign, you can also change hairstyles, makeup, tatoos and so on.

This is a really unique experience and being there dancing the night away in a cantina, while other players comes in to get their buffs (and remove battle fatigue) is a consept I  would love to see in more MMORPGs. In SWG  the atmosphere in a cantina is very unique. As an entertainer you chat and socialise with other entertainers and you meet a lot of other players in a different setting.

Crafing, Exploring, Combat, Healing are ingredients that you find in most MMORPGs but Entertainer is not.  Every time I  read about a new "Prommising"  mmorpg I  hope there is that social class.But every time, I  am let down.

Will there every be a game that has such a class again? I really really hope so. I actually dont know about any other games than SWG that has such a thing but I  am 100% sure that such a class would fit into many games even if their focus is combat. It never hurts for anyone to relax a bit.. socialise and just chat

 

 

 

Orclord06

I too enjoyed the entertainer. It was fun to just perform and socialize with friends.

Beatnik59

Toughest profession in SWG, bar none.  Anyone who says otherwise never played it the way it was meant to be played.  And I talk from experience as one of the most loved and critically acclaimed (dare I say contraversial as well) entertainers in SWG history.

But the fact that so few people really understood the profession (both playing it and witnessing it in action) shows me that it might have been too ambitious of a concept.  Players just didn't "get it," which is why I, the patrons, and the profession as a whole, suffered.

The premise was very simple: character degradation requires downtime in a venue, and this downtime can be boring when there is nobody performing.  Therefore, it is in the interest of everyone to ensure that someone is performing.  It is even better when exciting performers are performing.  Thus, it is in the interest of players to make sure the exciting people are in the cantina dancing, playing music, and performing; and not out doing something else to make a living.  That's why it is in the interest of the patrons to tip the cantina workers, and the more entertaining they are, the more they should be tipped.

But only a small select few ever figured this out, which is why the concept really didn't work so well.  Enough patrons didn't really care about "good" entertainers...they thought the whole concept was just punishment for dying.  And so they really didn't care if the person who serviced their battle fatigue was putting on a show or putting on a macro.  In fact, they seemed to like the AFK macro ents better, because they kept on servicing their battle fatigue from server up to server close.  Some of the richest ents in the game were automated alts running on a second account.

Likewise, ents started thinking like the things that were valuable had nothing to do with being a joy to see, but rather, all the mechanical advantages like buffs and healing, and demanded they should be paid regardless of whether or not they were any good.  Say what you will, buffs were the things that made the profession miserable.  I could pwn the AFKers all day in the BF and wounds game, but when the buffs came into play, it just made the whole profession about issuing buffs as quickly as possible, not about making sure everyone had a good time.  As soon as BF and mind wounds went away, I knew I no longer had any game to play as an entertainer.

I'm afraid it is going to take a major shift in player expectations in order to make a profession like entertainer viable again in future MMOs.  We have to value roleplay again.  We have to not mind downtime so much.  Most of all, we have to put the integrity of the game and building a world together as a community first in our list of priorities, and our own desire for personal and guild advantage second.  Sadly, I don't see that type of player or community today.  Today's player takes his cues from Sirlin instead of Bartle.

Perhaps that sort of "gamey" culture will want something a little more deep and immersive someday, when the cheap thrills of Kalimdor and Queynos seem shallow.  If that happens, we might be ready for a profession like entertainer again.

 

blueshadow

Originally posted by Beatnik59


Toughest profession in SWG, bar none.  Anyone who says otherwise never played it the way it was meant to be played.  And I talk from experience as one of the most loved and critically acclaimed (dare I say contraversial as well) entertainers in SWG history.
But the fact that so few people really understood the profession (both playing it and witnessing it in action) shows me that it might have been too ambitious of a concept.  Players just didn't "get it," which is why I, the patrons, and the profession as a whole, suffered.
The premise was very simple: character degradation requires downtime in a venue, and this downtime can be boring when there is nobody performing.  Therefore, it is in the interest of everyone to ensure that someone is performing.  It is even better when exciting performers are performing.  Thus, it is in the interest of players to make sure the exciting people are in the cantina dancing, playing music, and performing; and not out doing something else to make a living.  That's why it is in the interest of the patrons to tip the cantina workers, and the more entertaining they are, the more they should be tipped.
But only a small select few ever figured this out, which is why the concept really didn't work so well.  Enough patrons didn't really care about "good" entertainers...they thought the whole concept was just punishment for dying.  And so they really didn't care if the person who serviced their battle fatigue was putting on a show or putting on a macro.  In fact, they seemed to like the AFK macro ents better, because they kept on servicing their battle fatigue from server up to server close.  Some of the richest ents in the game were automated alts running on a second account.
Likewise, ents started thinking like the things that were valuable had nothing to do with being a joy to see, but rather, all the mechanical advantages like buffs and healing, and demanded they should be paid regardless of whether or not they were any good.  Say what you will, buffs were the things that made the profession miserable.  I could pwn the AFKers all day in the BF and wounds game, but when the buffs came into play, it just made the whole profession about issuing buffs as quickly as possible, not about making sure everyone had a good time.  As soon as BF and mind wounds went away, I knew I no longer had any game to play as an entertainer.
I'm afraid it is going to take a major shift in player expectations in order to make a profession like entertainer viable again in future MMOs.  We have to value roleplay again.  We have to not mind downtime so much.  Most of all, we have to put the integrity of the game and building a world together as a community first in our list of priorities, and our own desire for personal and guild advantage second.  Sadly, I don't see that type of player or community today.  Today's player takes his cues from Sirlin instead of Bartle.
Perhaps that sort of "gamey" culture will want something a little more deep and immersive someday, when the cheap thrills of Kalimdor and Queynos seem shallow.  If that happens, we might be ready for a profession like entertainer again.
 

 

This sounds like entertainers PRE-NGE.

In SWG today. Entertainers have more buffs than before (1 in vanilla and about 30 today, ranging from xp buff to luck.. absolutely all kinds of buff that helps all classes in all aspects of the game) they have a UI where they HAVE  to put in a covercharge to be able to grant the buff (offcourse they can put o but then its their own fault :P)

And if a player really enjoys being that..  Buffing making money and just chatting. How can it be a misunderstood profession?  If a player enjoys the class in the game he /  she plays. Isnt that successfull?

I was an entertainer back in the days.  Both Musician and later Dancer. And from an entertainers viewpoint the class has never been better than today.

I just dont understand why game companies are so scared of putting in anything but combat classes and action classes in their games. MMORPGS today are more like MMOASG massive multiplayer online arcade style games or MMOFPS.

 

VadimR

Originally posted by blueshadow


One of the professions or class in a MMORPG that I find truly unique is the Entertainer of SWG.
A class designed to be 100% social. You dance or play music in the cantina. Added Imagedesign, you can also change hairstyles, makeup, tatoos and so on.
This is a really unique experience and being there dancing the night away in a cantina, while other players comes in to get their buffs (and remove battle fatigue) is a consept I  would love to see in more MMORPGs. In SWG  the atmosphere in a cantina is very special. As an entertainer you chat with other entertainers and you meet a lot of other players in a different setting.
Crafing, Exploring, Combat, Healing are ingredients that you find in most MMORPGs but Entertainer is not.  Every time I  read about a new "Prommising"  mmorpg I  hope there is that social class.But every time, I  am let down.
Will there every be a game that has such a class again? I really really hope so. I actually dont know about any other games than SWG that has such a thing but I  am 100% sure that such a class would fit into many games even if their focus is combat. It never hurts for anyone to relax a bit.. socialise and just chat
 
 
 

 

Putting an entertainer class into an MMO these days would require developers to understand that:

 

1.   MMOs are not single player games with a chat function

 

2.  MMOs are about social interaction

 

I did hear a rumour that the entertainer class was going to be put into The Old Republic by Bioware. When asked how the entertainer would be able to fight a fully trained jedi, the Blaine Christine said:

 

"Similarly with the Entertainer, she has many tools at her disposal. Her legs have an iron like grip, she’s got pheromones oozing out of her pores, so maybe it’s not an inherent ability like the Force, but she has other things he can use to incapacitate say, a Sith Warrior if we’re talking about a PvP situation. She’s going to be able to deal with that situation. Again, because she’s not just an everyday ordinary entertainer, she’s an elite entertainer."

 

 

Only joking of course. The quote above was by Blaine Christine of Bioware about the smuggler's ability to mix it with jedi and Sith in PvP (well, there is another joke). Of course the deception was intended to show the ineptness of MMO developers these days and their inability to understand that you can have a class in a game that is there just for the social interaction and the roleplay value. Couldn't we also have a smuggler class in the game becasue they would be good at smuggling? Do they have to be able to defeat a jedi in combat?

nariusseldon

I dont think it is going to work very well with the majority of players.

1) The actual dances/music is NOT entertaining .. not to the point where players would want to watch them for long. So there need to be game mechanics to INCENT players to be "entertained". If so, you really CANNOT get away from the players trying to get buffed as fast as possible.

2) Down-time is not perceived to be fun. Most people play MMOs to hack-n-slash, progress their char, and go on adventures. Just look at the failure of the SIMS ONLINE. A pure social game is just NOT going to resonate with players.

3) It is not a matter of whether a developer can add an entertainer class, it is about priority. The same resource can be used to make dungeons, and make a LOT MORE players happy. The choice is clear.

Torik

Originally posted by Beatnik59


Toughest profession in SWG, bar none.  Anyone who says otherwise never played it the way it was meant to be played.  And I talk from experience as one of the most loved and critically acclaimed (dare I say contraversial as well) entertainers in SWG history.
But the fact that so few people really understood the profession (both playing it and witnessing it in action) shows me that it might have been too ambitious of a concept.  Players just didn't "get it," which is why I, the patrons, and the profession as a whole, suffered.
The premise was very simple: character degradation requires downtime in a venue, and this downtime can be boring when there is nobody performing.  Therefore, it is in the interest of everyone to ensure that someone is performing.  It is even better when exciting performers are performing.  Thus, it is in the interest of players to make sure the exciting people are in the cantina dancing, playing music, and performing; and not out doing something else to make a living.  That's why it is in the interest of the patrons to tip the cantina workers, and the more entertaining they are, the more they should be tipped.
But only a small select few ever figured this out, which is why the concept really didn't work so well.  Enough patrons didn't really care about "good" entertainers...they thought the whole concept was just punishment for dying.  And so they really didn't care if the person who serviced their battle fatigue was putting on a show or putting on a macro.  In fact, they seemed to like the AFK macro ents better, because they kept on servicing their battle fatigue from server up to server close.  Some of the richest ents in the game were automated alts running on a second account.

 

Let's face it to a layperson there really was not much difference between a 'good' entertainer and an macro bot.  They performed the same routines and once you have seen it done once it became pretty much 'elevator music'.  I am sure the entertainers tried to be original and innovative but to an outsider there was very little difference between one performance and another. 

Personallly I would have tried playing an entertainer in my SWG days but I was prevented from doing that by SOEs idiotic 'one character per server' rule which stopped me from trying so many cool things in that game.

Beatnik59

Originally posted by blueshadow

Originally posted by Beatnik59


Toughest profession in SWG, bar none.  Anyone who says otherwise never played it the way it was meant to be played.  And I talk from experience as one of the most loved and critically acclaimed (dare I say contraversial as well) entertainers in SWG history.
But the fact that so few people really understood the profession (both playing it and witnessing it in action) shows me that it might have been too ambitious of a concept.  Players just didn't "get it," which is why I, the patrons, and the profession as a whole, suffered.
The premise was very simple: character degradation requires downtime in a venue, and this downtime can be boring when there is nobody performing.  Therefore, it is in the interest of everyone to ensure that someone is performing.  It is even better when exciting performers are performing.  Thus, it is in the interest of players to make sure the exciting people are in the cantina dancing, playing music, and performing; and not out doing something else to make a living.  That's why it is in the interest of the patrons to tip the cantina workers, and the more entertaining they are, the more they should be tipped.
But only a small select few ever figured this out, which is why the concept really didn't work so well.  Enough patrons didn't really care about "good" entertainers...they thought the whole concept was just punishment for dying.  And so they really didn't care if the person who serviced their battle fatigue was putting on a show or putting on a macro.  In fact, they seemed to like the AFK macro ents better, because they kept on servicing their battle fatigue from server up to server close.  Some of the richest ents in the game were automated alts running on a second account.
Likewise, ents started thinking like the things that were valuable had nothing to do with being a joy to see, but rather, all the mechanical advantages like buffs and healing, and demanded they should be paid regardless of whether or not they were any good.  Say what you will, buffs were the things that made the profession miserable.  I could pwn the AFKers all day in the BF and wounds game, but when the buffs came into play, it just made the whole profession about issuing buffs as quickly as possible, not about making sure everyone had a good time.  As soon as BF and mind wounds went away, I knew I no longer had any game to play as an entertainer.
I'm afraid it is going to take a major shift in player expectations in order to make a profession like entertainer viable again in future MMOs.  We have to value roleplay again.  We have to not mind downtime so much.  Most of all, we have to put the integrity of the game and building a world together as a community first in our list of priorities, and our own desire for personal and guild advantage second.  Sadly, I don't see that type of player or community today.  Today's player takes his cues from Sirlin instead of Bartle.
Perhaps that sort of "gamey" culture will want something a little more deep and immersive someday, when the cheap thrills of Kalimdor and Queynos seem shallow.  If that happens, we might be ready for a profession like entertainer again.
 

 

This sounds like entertainers PRE-NGE.

In SWG today. Entertainers have more buffs than before (1 in vanilla and about 30 today, ranging from xp buff to luck.. absolutely all kinds of buff that helps all classes in all aspects of the game) they have a UI where they HAVE  to put in a covercharge to be able to grant the buff (offcourse they can put o but then its their own fault :P)

And if a player really enjoys being that..  Buffing making money and just chatting. How can it be a misunderstood profession?  If a player enjoys the class in the game he /  she plays. Isnt that successfull?

I was an entertainer back in the days.  Both Musician and later Dancer. And from an entertainers viewpoint the class has never been better than today.

I just dont understand why game companies are so scared of putting in anything but combat classes and action classes in their games. MMORPGS today are more like MMOASG massive multiplayer online arcade style games or MMOFPS.

 

 

Sounds to me like the new entertainer class post-NGE isn't about being entertaining, but dispensing buffs.  Might as well open it up to be AFKed again, because there certainly is no incentive to be fun to watch.

There's no entertaining "skill" involved in today's entertainer profession.  It's just about being a poor copy of doctor, where instead of getting the things you pay for instantly, you have to wait around for a kind of "enchantment" process to finish, whether the entertainer really is trying hard to be entertaining, or not.

Unknown

I'll be direct and say that entertainers are not my kind of class.  However, I think they add a lot to the mmo experience.  IMO, MMOs should not be about going from dungeon to dungeon while visiting the auction house every few trips.  You really should have to do some traveling, and you really should have to go to a common location to heal wounds and socialize.  Yes, I realize that to some of the more extreme gamers out there ( I tend to include myself in this group) it seems like a terrible waste of time.  I really don't think I'll bother trying to change their mind.  The point here is that just because something is bad for you doesn't mean it's bad for the mmo.  Ultimately, when mmos turn into instant gratification, I just don't see them as mmos anymore.  You've GOT to have that variety otherwise you just get burnt out on a game too quickly.  Things like entertainers, or tailors, or any other number of "frivilous" classes fill the void of variety.  I fully and completely support them, despite the fact I wouldn't want to be one.  

Beatnik59

Originally posted by zaxxon23


I'll be direct and say that entertainers are not my kind of class.  However, I think they add a lot to the mmo experience.  IMO, MMOs should not be about going from dungeon to dungeon while visiting the auction house every few trips.  You really should have to do some traveling, and you really should have to go to a common location to heal wounds and socialize.  Yes, I realize that to some of the more extreme gamers out there ( I tend to include myself in this group) it seems like a terrible waste of time.  I really don't think I'll bother trying to change their mind.  The point here is that just because something is bad for you doesn't mean it's bad for the mmo.  Ultimately, when mmos turn into instant gratification, I just don't see them as mmos anymore.  You've GOT to have that variety otherwise you just get burnt out on a game too quickly.  Things like entertainers, or tailors, or any other number of "frivilous" classes fill the void of variety.  I fully and completely support them, despite the fact I wouldn't want to be one.  

 

You see, this is the kind of thing that made the early SWG so good.

There were things in SWG I didn't particularly enjoy.  Probably the biggest of them was crafting.  Yet just because I didn't like crafting didn't mean I didn't appreciate the work that went into it and appreciated what it did for the game.

Somewhere along the line, players started to say to themselves, "if I don't like it, it shouldn't be around."  It probably started when Blizzard said "we looked at all the MMOs and took out everything that wasn't fun."  Fun for who though?  Them?  Or the people that had fun doing the things they didn't think were so fun?

Our tolerance for professions and mechanics that we don't enjoy has become small.  People don't tolerate PKing as much anymore, or crafting (and the mechanics that support it, like decay), traveling distances, pick-up groups, roleplaying, or "fluff" professions like entertainers.  And because our tolerance is small, is it any surprise that our games have become small as well?

We need more players like you, zaxxon, if we have any hope of getting more interesting games.

ArcAngel3

Originally posted by blueshadow


One of the professions or class in a MMORPG that I find truly unique is the Entertainer of SWG.
A class designed to be 100% social. You dance or play music in the cantina. Added Imagedesign, you can also change hairstyles, makeup, tatoos and so on.
This is a really unique experience and being there dancing the night away in a cantina, while other players comes in to get their buffs (and remove battle fatigue) is a consept I  would love to see in more MMORPGs. In SWG  the atmosphere in a cantina is very unique. As an entertainer you chat and socialise with other entertainers and you meet a lot of other players in a different setting.
Crafing, Exploring, Combat, Healing are ingredients that you find in most MMORPGs but Entertainer is not.  Every time I  read about a new "Prommising"  mmorpg I  hope there is that social class.But every time, I  am let down.
Will there every be a game that has such a class again? I really really hope so. I actually dont know about any other games than SWG that has such a thing but I  am 100% sure that such a class would fit into many games even if their focus is combat. It never hurts for anyone to relax a bit.. socialise and just chat
 
 
 

 

Battle fatigue healing was removed from SWG many years ago, and the entertainer profession has undergone revamp after revamp.  Most of which resulted in a lower game population.  Out of curiosity, when did they return battle fatigue to SWG?

Yohanu

 It's dumb in the sense that it's a class. Make it classless so anyone can be an "entertainer"! Player-driven world events are much more fun than classes you are stuck inside.

 

Thorqemada

Original SWG had so many good things including the cantinas with music and dance to chill out that had even a reasonable task to fullfill in the game.

AoC could have been a world for entertainers too but if it is not in the original concept it will mostly not make it into the game - like good crafting...

MMOs today are almost instant hack n slay games without consequences to care of...

 

Joliust

I loved playing in bands in the cantinas. Everyone with a different instrument, people sitting and talking around you. Also paying for buffs always felt sorta dirty.

It's one of the things I truly miss from that game with all my heart. Sitting around in a campsite, cantina, or hospital. Just getting to know people on the server. It let you take a break from just killing things without feeling like you were wasting time. Also I felt it built a really strong server community. I know a LOT of people on my server in that game. Added a whole new layer when you knew the people you were pvping against too. Whether you hated them or you got bragging rights after the battle was over.