I don't know about the most challenging MMO as a whole, since I'm still relatively new to the genre, but I have to say that out of all the games I've played, EVE is probably the most challenging. I've been playing for about 16 days already (just recently suscribed to it) and at the moment, I'm still pretty much lost at it. The amount of information you have at the get go is extremely complicated, not to mention the types of ships and equipment and weapons and so on... I get scared just looking at the market. The best thing about difficult games such as EVE though, is that when you finally figure something out, it is an extremely gratifying feeling.
If you laugh, you know it's because it's true...
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Because I'm willing to bet that anything even halfway worth mentioning is either 2D, Korean cash shop grinder, or over 10 years old. And by challenging, I mean it is difficult just to keep from losing progress, much less progress at all, where players without a certain level of skill, are just going to wind up getting frustrated and quit, and end-game is just not a part of the games vocabulary, at least not for a long time. So which is it? Because when I really think on it, the closest thing I can come up with is D2 in permadeath mode, which isn't even a MMO to begin with. I always figured that there would be a truly epic MMO released at some point, where world bosses remain undefeated for years before the players finally come up with some crazy tactic and manage to kill them, and totally opposite from what is normal now, where you can reach your progression cap in a matter of weeks. I always figured that at some point a blow your freaking mind MMO would come out where players would be at it for years and still never hit any cap, where there is no such thing as end game for well into the worlds life, and where you can always have something to aim towards.
Real Life is pretty epic, and awefully challenging at times as well.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Because I'm willing to bet that anything even halfway worth mentioning is either 2D, Korean cash shop grinder, or over 10 years old. And by challenging, I mean it is difficult just to keep from losing progress, much less progress at all, where players without a certain level of skill, are just going to wind up getting frustrated and quit, and end-game is just not a part of the games vocabulary, at least not for a long time. So which is it? Because when I really think on it, the closest thing I can come up with is D2 in permadeath mode, which isn't even a MMO to begin with. I always figured that there would be a truly epic MMO released at some point, where world bosses remain undefeated for years before the players finally come up with some crazy tactic and manage to kill them, and totally opposite from what is normal now, where you can reach your progression cap in a matter of weeks. I always figured that at some point a blow your freaking mind MMO would come out where players would be at it for years and still never hit any cap, where there is no such thing as end game for well into the worlds life, and where you can always have something to aim towards.
Real Life is pretty epic, and awefully challenging at times as well.
... says the WoW gamer ;P
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Because I'm willing to bet that anything even halfway worth mentioning is either 2D, Korean cash shop grinder, or over 10 years old. And by challenging, I mean it is difficult just to keep from losing progress, much less progress at all, where players without a certain level of skill, are just going to wind up getting frustrated and quit, and end-game is just not a part of the games vocabulary, at least not for a long time. So which is it? Because when I really think on it, the closest thing I can come up with is D2 in permadeath mode, which isn't even a MMO to begin with. I always figured that there would be a truly epic MMO released at some point, where world bosses remain undefeated for years before the players finally come up with some crazy tactic and manage to kill them, and totally opposite from what is normal now, where you can reach your progression cap in a matter of weeks. I always figured that at some point a blow your freaking mind MMO would come out where players would be at it for years and still never hit any cap, where there is no such thing as end game for well into the worlds life, and where you can always have something to aim towards.
What a pipe dream. It wont happen for a million years for a very simple business reality. Content is expensive and if you make it too difficult so no one see it, it is a waste.
The wow approach is the right one. Produce content fast (in months time) and have players consume it in between releases.
Because I'm willing to bet that anything even halfway worth mentioning is either 2D, Korean cash shop grinder, or over 10 years old. And by challenging, I mean it is difficult just to keep from losing progress, much less progress at all, where players without a certain level of skill, are just going to wind up getting frustrated and quit, and end-game is just not a part of the games vocabulary, at least not for a long time. So which is it? Because when I really think on it, the closest thing I can come up with is D2 in permadeath mode, which isn't even a MMO to begin with. I always figured that there would be a truly epic MMO released at some point, where world bosses remain undefeated for years before the players finally come up with some crazy tactic and manage to kill them, and totally opposite from what is normal now, where you can reach your progression cap in a matter of weeks. I always figured that at some point a blow your freaking mind MMO would come out where players would be at it for years and still never hit any cap, where there is no such thing as end game for well into the worlds life, and where you can always have something to aim towards.
What a pipe dream. It wont happen for a million years for a very simple business reality. Content is expensive and if you make it too difficult so no one see it, it is a waste.
The wow approach is the right one. Produce content fast (in months time) and have players consume it in between releases.
Firstly there is a truly epic MMO out there that is hard to progress with, and there are world events/bosses that take an entire servers worth of players/guilds to take down. It's called EverQuest.
Secondly, that WoW approach that you are talking about? It isn't a Wow approach at all, it has been done to death by SOE in the form of the EverQuest franchise long before WoW was even thought of as a potential MMO.
How do I know I'm right? Because some of the same folks that worked on WoW whether it was server technology, art, or gameplay got their start in the making of EverQuest. Go visit the folks at Trion and see how many MMO's they've had their collective hands in at one point or another.
Originally posted by Ihmotepp Originally posted by heremypet Originally posted by Palebane
Real Life is pretty epic, and awefully challenging at times as well.
Yea, I get excellent framerate in RL, but the community stinks and the storyline is pointless.
True. And you don't get bind on pick up, but gear replacement and repair costs are way to high. Plus, there's a hell of a grind. So gear wears out, then you have to grind to fix it. Bleh!
I wish there was one out there. So many games are grindy now and that is enough of a challenge to stay interested long enough to get through the grind.
Because I'm willing to bet that anything even halfway worth mentioning is either 2D, Korean cash shop grinder, or over 10 years old. And by challenging, I mean it is difficult just to keep from losing progress, much less progress at all, where players without a certain level of skill, are just going to wind up getting frustrated and quit, and end-game is just not a part of the games vocabulary, at least not for a long time. So which is it? Because when I really think on it, the closest thing I can come up with is D2 in permadeath mode, which isn't even a MMO to begin with. I always figured that there would be a truly epic MMO released at some point, where world bosses remain undefeated for years before the players finally come up with some crazy tactic and manage to kill them, and totally opposite from what is normal now, where you can reach your progression cap in a matter of weeks. I always figured that at some point a blow your freaking mind MMO would come out where players would be at it for years and still never hit any cap, where there is no such thing as end game for well into the worlds life, and where you can always have something to aim towards.
The problem I have addressing your topic is that I do not consider your description of the content you want to be particularly 'challenging'. That's probably because I do not consider 'endurance challenges' in video games to be 'real challenges'.
I would have to say that DarkFall has been generally most challenging MMO I have played due to full loot and PVP focus. Especially after the launch when your ingame life was truly cheap. Now if they would only polish the game slightly, add meaningful quests and fix the balance, etc. and get more players it would be a great game overall. Hope the new expansion does all that...
On rules, equipment and tactics point of view I would say EVE is the most challenging MMO game around. WW II Online is a good contender in this category too if you can count it as being a MMO.
I had high hopes for Fallen Earth, but I find it a bit too fluffy and easy even at the beginning.
The problem I have addressing your topic is that I do not consider your description of the content you want to be particularly 'challenging'. That's probably because I do not consider 'endurance challenges' in video games to be 'real challenges'.
Try not to look at it in the context of current MMOs. By challenging, I'm not talking about it simply taking a long time, and I've no interest in mindlessly grinding for months on end. But I would enjoy a game world requiring more brain activity than being in a coma, while lasting longer than 2 weeks. I don't want to get all the way to end-game with no effort at all, I want the game to stop me like it's saying "You can't go any further", so I can come up with a creative way of saying "bullshit", not just mindlessly quest and grind like a zombie until end-game, I don't even want to see the end-game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
have you looked at Ryzom? It is skill based, and it would take a very long time to max all the skills.
The world is very immersive too, and you can't just walk around blindly. You need to be aware of the predators, where they hunt, when they sleep, etc.
The crafting is the best in any game; there are no set recipes, you have to learn how to make stuff yourself. Everyone has their own special recipes that they have worked out.
Resource gathering is also the best in any game; stuff isn't just lying around to be picked up. You have to go prospecting (which is a trainable skill) for what you need, and once you find it, you can't just dig it up. Digging is dangerous, and will probably kill you if you don't have the skills and pay attention.
The problem I have addressing your topic is that I do not consider your description of the content you want to be particularly 'challenging'. That's probably because I do not consider 'endurance challenges' in video games to be 'real challenges'.
Try not to look at it in the context of current MMOs. By challenging, I'm not talking about it simply taking a long time, and I've no interest in mindlessly grinding for months on end. But I would enjoy a game world requiring more brain activity than being in a coma, while lasting longer than 2 weeks. I don't want to get all the way to end-game with no effort at all, I want the game to stop me like it's saying "You can't go any further", so I can come up with a creative way of saying "bullshit", not just mindlessly quest and grind like a zombie until end-game, I don't even want to see the end-game.
Fair enough.
With all the discussions on this forum going over the same issues over and over, it often becomes hard to read what exactly a poster is trying to convey. My reading of your OP gave me a picture that you actually wanted things to take a long time and consist of more grinding. If that was not your intention then I appologize.
I am strong supporter of an 'achievement-based' progression where levels are not based on how much XP you gain but on what you have accomplished. So in order to progress you would have to beat a challenge. The tricky part is to design a system like this in a way that will not pigeon-hole players into roles and content that they do not find fun.
EVE is the only mmo I've ever tried that itimidated me and made my brain hurt from it's complexity and vastness. Regrettably I never got in on the ground floor and each time I play the demos I like it but fear it's too late.
The new Dust 514 game coming up makes it look even more challenging.
Comments
If you laugh, you know it's because it's true...
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Real Life is pretty epic, and awefully challenging at times as well.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I'd have to add the Eve vote. It's definitely the most challenging MMO I've played.
Real Life is pretty epic, and awefully challenging at times as well.
... says the WoW gamer ;P
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
Yea, I get excellent framerate in RL, but the community stinks and the storyline is pointless.
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
What a pipe dream. It wont happen for a million years for a very simple business reality. Content is expensive and if you make it too difficult so no one see it, it is a waste.
The wow approach is the right one. Produce content fast (in months time) and have players consume it in between releases.
What a pipe dream. It wont happen for a million years for a very simple business reality. Content is expensive and if you make it too difficult so no one see it, it is a waste.
The wow approach is the right one. Produce content fast (in months time) and have players consume it in between releases.
Firstly there is a truly epic MMO out there that is hard to progress with, and there are world events/bosses that take an entire servers worth of players/guilds to take down. It's called EverQuest.
Secondly, that WoW approach that you are talking about? It isn't a Wow approach at all, it has been done to death by SOE in the form of the EverQuest franchise long before WoW was even thought of as a potential MMO.
How do I know I'm right? Because some of the same folks that worked on WoW whether it was server technology, art, or gameplay got their start in the making of EverQuest.
Go visit the folks at Trion and see how many MMO's they've had their collective hands in at one point or another.
Ashreal D'Synn - Shadowlover & Death's handmaiden
Yea, I get excellent framerate in RL, but the community stinks and the storyline is pointless.
True. And you don't get bind on pick up, but gear replacement and repair costs are way to high.
Plus, there's a hell of a grind.
So gear wears out, then you have to grind to fix it. Bleh!
Yea, I get excellent framerate in RL, but the community stinks and the storyline is pointless.
True. And you don't get bind on pick up, but gear replacement and repair costs are way to high.
Plus, there's a hell of a grind.
So gear wears out, then you have to grind to fix it. Bleh!
Worst of all, RMT is only way to get anything.
Yea, I get excellent framerate in RL, but the community stinks and the storyline is pointless.
True. And you don't get bind on pick up, but gear replacement and repair costs are way to high.
Plus, there's a hell of a grind.
So gear wears out, then you have to grind to fix it. Bleh!
Worst of all, RMT is only way to get anything.
and to think that the Sims is one of the best all time selling IP's in existence.
"There is only one thing of which I am certain, and that's nothing is certain."
If you laugh, you know it's because it's true...
Heh, that explains why I snigger everytime I see that picture.
Main characters:
Jinn Gone Quiet (Guild Wars)
Princess Pudding (Guild Wars)
I wish there was one out there. So many games are grindy now and that is enough of a challenge to stay interested long enough to get through the grind.
The problem I have addressing your topic is that I do not consider your description of the content you want to be particularly 'challenging'. That's probably because I do not consider 'endurance challenges' in video games to be 'real challenges'.
Yea, I get excellent framerate in RL, but the community stinks and the storyline is pointless.
Uhm......
Is there some feature on MMORPG where you can vote for your all time favorite post, response, etc? THIS ^^^^^ is full of WIN.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I would have to say that DarkFall has been generally most challenging MMO I have played due to full loot and PVP focus. Especially after the launch when your ingame life was truly cheap. Now if they would only polish the game slightly, add meaningful quests and fix the balance, etc. and get more players it would be a great game overall. Hope the new expansion does all that...
On rules, equipment and tactics point of view I would say EVE is the most challenging MMO game around. WW II Online is a good contender in this category too if you can count it as being a MMO.
I had high hopes for Fallen Earth, but I find it a bit too fluffy and easy even at the beginning.
Try not to look at it in the context of current MMOs. By challenging, I'm not talking about it simply taking a long time, and I've no interest in mindlessly grinding for months on end. But I would enjoy a game world requiring more brain activity than being in a coma, while lasting longer than 2 weeks. I don't want to get all the way to end-game with no effort at all, I want the game to stop me like it's saying "You can't go any further", so I can come up with a creative way of saying "bullshit", not just mindlessly quest and grind like a zombie until end-game, I don't even want to see the end-game.
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
Yea, I get excellent framerate in RL, but the community stinks and the storyline is pointless.
True. And you don't get bind on pick up, but gear replacement and repair costs are way to high.
Plus, there's a hell of a grind.
So gear wears out, then you have to grind to fix it. Bleh!
And permadeath, that part really sucks too.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
have you looked at Ryzom? It is skill based, and it would take a very long time to max all the skills.
The world is very immersive too, and you can't just walk around blindly. You need to be aware of the predators, where they hunt, when they sleep, etc.
The crafting is the best in any game; there are no set recipes, you have to learn how to make stuff yourself. Everyone has their own special recipes that they have worked out.
Resource gathering is also the best in any game; stuff isn't just lying around to be picked up. You have to go prospecting (which is a trainable skill) for what you need, and once you find it, you can't just dig it up. Digging is dangerous, and will probably kill you if you don't have the skills and pay attention.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Try not to look at it in the context of current MMOs. By challenging, I'm not talking about it simply taking a long time, and I've no interest in mindlessly grinding for months on end. But I would enjoy a game world requiring more brain activity than being in a coma, while lasting longer than 2 weeks. I don't want to get all the way to end-game with no effort at all, I want the game to stop me like it's saying "You can't go any further", so I can come up with a creative way of saying "bullshit", not just mindlessly quest and grind like a zombie until end-game, I don't even want to see the end-game.
Fair enough.
With all the discussions on this forum going over the same issues over and over, it often becomes hard to read what exactly a poster is trying to convey. My reading of your OP gave me a picture that you actually wanted things to take a long time and consist of more grinding. If that was not your intention then I appologize.
I am strong supporter of an 'achievement-based' progression where levels are not based on how much XP you gain but on what you have accomplished. So in order to progress you would have to beat a challenge. The tricky part is to design a system like this in a way that will not pigeon-hole players into roles and content that they do not find fun.
Aion is nothing but mindless repetitiveness...that does not in any way shape or form make it difficult.
FFXI and EVE on the otherhard have very challenging gameplay and I suggest looking into those games if you are looking for a challenge.
Yea, I get excellent framerate in RL, but the community stinks and the storyline is pointless.
True. And you don't get bind on pick up, but gear replacement and repair costs are way to high.
Plus, there's a hell of a grind.
So gear wears out, then you have to grind to fix it. Bleh!
Worst of all, RMT is only way to get anything.
A question on the epic new game how do you reoll?
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
EVE is the only mmo I've ever tried that itimidated me and made my brain hurt from it's complexity and vastness. Regrettably I never got in on the ground floor and each time I play the demos I like it but fear it's too late.
The new Dust 514 game coming up makes it look even more challenging.
EVE, find a good corp in 0.0 and it helps to have a RL friend to play with because you really need someone you can trust
Hello Kitty online.
You could try playing Dofus on permadeath server.