I understand. I understand the game you want. That game is Vanguard. At this point in time, I can't recommend it to anyone because SOE isn't really committed to the game. 4 devs doesn't make for a live team in the MMORPG community. Just keep your eye on that game. Until then, WoW is going out of it's way to make more and more tools to greatly enchance the play for all of it's players and with this LFG tool, they hit a grand slam. Think about. 5th year out and instead of just sitting back milking money off of WoW, Blizzard is still creating awesome tools to push the MMOG community forward. Yes, it's a throw back to the "lobby system", but doing it in-game is just creative and forward thinking.
100% agree about Vanguard. The game could be great, but SOE has done nothing but run it into the ground since they got their hands on it. The guys they have working on it do a great job, but they just arent enough to fix all the issues that have been in since beta AND add new interesting content at a reasonable rate.
Blizzard is pushing hard to make dungeons more accessible by everyone, but I hope they do try to find a balance between challenging and accessible. Making things easy, doesnt always mean it is better.
it's a group made up from often random players meeting each other for the first time
the opposite would be a group of friends or guild group
you "PICK THEM UP" as you go -> pick up group
Ok, thanks. But how is that new? I was playing in PUGs all the time in any MMO. I mean, you just enter the LFG channel or what and off you go. Whats so new?
it's a group made up from often random players meeting each other for the first time
the opposite would be a group of friends or guild group
you "PICK THEM UP" as you go -> pick up group
Ok, thanks. But how is that new? I was playing in PUGs all the time in any MMO. I mean, you just enter the LFG channel or what and off you go. Whats so new?
Well, for WoW it's new because it's autopickup I believe, so you autojoin a group (the game tosses you in a group) and it's serverwide, so you can group with people from another server instantly.
it's a group made up from often random players meeting each other for the first time
the opposite would be a group of friends or guild group
you "PICK THEM UP" as you go -> pick up group
Ok, thanks. But how is that new? I was playing in PUGs all the time in any MMO. I mean, you just enter the LFG channel or what and off you go. Whats so new?
Well, for WoW it's new because it's autopickup I believe, so you autojoin a group (the game tosses you in a group) and it's serverwide, so you can group with people from another server instantly.
Funny, I was thinking about him too, when I read that. Well, I'm fairly ambivalent about WoW, although I do play it every now and again, but I have to give them a fair deal of credit for actually encouraging grouping AND making it worthwhile. I feel a bit disconcerted that I'm actually saying something especially nice about Blizzard, but I'm sure I'll be better soon.
This is one of those ideas that I think looks good on paper, but will be, in actuality, one of the bricks on the road to hell. This more or less completely turns WoW into, as earlier posters said, a lobby game. And it also destroys any sense of continuity amongst the community in already established servers, while failing to create a global community due to limited and focused interaction.
This is one of those ideas that I think looks good on paper, but will be, in actuality, one of the bricks on the road to hell. This more or less completely turns WoW into, as earlier posters said, a lobby game. And it also destroys any sense of continuity amongst the community in already established servers, while failing to create a global community due to limited and focused interaction.
I completely disagree. It doesn't eliminate the LFG channel. Most people will resort to that as a last effort for building a group, not the first. You still have your friends and guildies to group with and this expands you pool of people when you can't find someone on your own server within a reasonable amount of time. I can't tell you how many times in FFXI I wish there would have been something like this because we'd sit around for HOURS waiting for a WHM to log in.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I am very impressed. The only complaint is that it does not seem to support raids 10/25 yet but obvious there are more functionality needed to do that.
This will be good. Some of my alts have never seen the inside of a dungeon (aside from running through by friends) just because it is so difficult to find a group.
This will greatly enhance group play.
BTW, i think this is 1000x better than open world grouping. To be able to find anyone in the open world is just too inconvenient. It is much easier to concentrate all the lfg in one place (like using trade to lfg in cities now).
This is one of those ideas that I think looks good on paper, but will be, in actuality, one of the bricks on the road to hell. This more or less completely turns WoW into, as earlier posters said, a lobby game. And it also destroys any sense of continuity amongst the community in already established servers, while failing to create a global community due to limited and focused interaction.
I completely disagree. It doesn't eliminate the LFG channel. Most people will resort to that as a last effort for building a group, not the first. You still have your friends and guildies to group with and this expands you pool of people when you can't find someone on your own server within a reasonable amount of time. I can't tell you how many times in FFXI I wish there would have been something like this because we'd sit around for HOURS waiting for a WHM to log in.
I don't think we can conclusively say what this will do exactly until it's implemented.
If it works and it's easy, I would think people use it first, not last. But again, we won't know till it's in place.
And, with this in place, can we build cross server guilds? Why not?
Sweet so now you can have 20 servers to ninja if your a ninja! it will take forever to run out of groups to ninja with that kinda of base to play with lol
This is one of those ideas that I think looks good on paper, but will be, in actuality, one of the bricks on the road to hell. This more or less completely turns WoW into, as earlier posters said, a lobby game. And it also destroys any sense of continuity amongst the community in already established servers, while failing to create a global community due to limited and focused interaction.
I completely disagree. It doesn't eliminate the LFG channel. Most people will resort to that as a last effort for building a group, not the first. You still have your friends and guildies to group with and this expands you pool of people when you can't find someone on your own server within a reasonable amount of time. I can't tell you how many times in FFXI I wish there would have been something like this because we'd sit around for HOURS waiting for a WHM to log in.
And, with this in place, can we build cross server guilds? Why not?
Now that is a good question. Since it is a LFG thing, I don't think so. If they expand it for raiding and you can invite your friends (which you can do in the 5 man version) first with it, I see this as a tool to making your own PvP groups very exciting indeed.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
This is one of those ideas that I think looks good on paper, but will be, in actuality, one of the bricks on the road to hell. This more or less completely turns WoW into, as earlier posters said, a lobby game. And it also destroys any sense of continuity amongst the community in already established servers, while failing to create a global community due to limited and focused interaction.
I completely disagree. It doesn't eliminate the LFG channel. Most people will resort to that as a last effort for building a group, not the first. You still have your friends and guildies to group with and this expands you pool of people when you can't find someone on your own server within a reasonable amount of time. I can't tell you how many times in FFXI I wish there would have been something like this because we'd sit around for HOURS waiting for a WHM to log in.
And, with this in place, can we build cross server guilds? Why not?
Now that is a good question. Since it is a LFG thing, I don't think so. If they expand it for raiding and you can invite your friends (which you can do in the 5 man version) first with it, I see this as a tool to making your own PvP groups very exciting indeed.
Are you saying guilds only exist for raiding?
You could make a guild for dungeon crawling, and make it a cross server guild.
For example, I make Dungeon Crawlers United, and have it set up on all servers, and when I use the new Pugging software I look for other DCU members.
This is one of those ideas that I think looks good on paper, but will be, in actuality, one of the bricks on the road to hell. This more or less completely turns WoW into, as earlier posters said, a lobby game. And it also destroys any sense of continuity amongst the community in already established servers, while failing to create a global community due to limited and focused interaction.
I completely disagree. It doesn't eliminate the LFG channel. Most people will resort to that as a last effort for building a group, not the first. You still have your friends and guildies to group with and this expands you pool of people when you can't find someone on your own server within a reasonable amount of time. I can't tell you how many times in FFXI I wish there would have been something like this because we'd sit around for HOURS waiting for a WHM to log in.
And, with this in place, can we build cross server guilds? Why not?
Now that is a good question. Since it is a LFG thing, I don't think so. If they expand it for raiding and you can invite your friends (which you can do in the 5 man version) first with it, I see this as a tool to making your own PvP groups very exciting indeed.
Are you saying guilds only exist for raiding?
You could make a guild for dungeon crawling, and make it a cross server guild.
For example, I make Dungeon Crawlers United, and have it set up on all servers, and when I use the new Pugging software I look for other DCU members.
No, not at all. I think that would be an awesome concept. You should run with it.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I see this thread took a couple spins here and there and has more or less died out, judging from timestamps. I don't mean to resurrect dead topics but I feel some points hadn't been fully discussed.
@ Shannia
If anything, this tool promotes people to not solo. Instead of just your server ot level up with in the low levels, it gives you 19 more servers worth of peple. That is HUGE. And for those people that say "but what about when the dungeon is over, how do I keep friends with anyone I like?" That is what battle.net is for. So that way you can keep track of cross realm and cross game friends. It doesn't get more social friendly.
The cross-realm LFG tool promotes an anti-social environment. Based on what you've said, I understand how you interpret the mechanic: you see more people having more access to more people. Raw number increase. I view the issue from a sociological stance- that is to say relating to social needs and issues.
If your goal is purely casual and social in nature, then yes, the new mechanic works in that fashion. Same concept as online dating. I meet new people, we hang out. Nothing serious.
If my goal is to solve a grouping dilemna, I've just created one. Rather than take the time and effort to meet (and suffer through meeting) people on my server that are 100% accessible, in a contact/be-contacted manner, I am now spending that time and ease of frustration through rolling the dice. Let's say I meet, and get along well with, someone from Server_32, two others from Server_15, and still another from Server_31... I have effectively done nothing towards sustaining my need to fill a group at any random time. I will perhaps, if it's even possible, group up with 1 or 2 of my cross-realm friends, but still need to fill more slots. Either I'm unable to get in contact with my other friends, or their social schedules differ due to they're being on different servers. You now no longer are using the cross-realm LFG tool as a crutch, you use it out of need. The servers themselves are barriers, and this tool is an artificial fix.
Rewind a bit, and examine classic WoW. In its conception, players experienced servers which, paraphrased from Blizzard, were 'worlds unto themselves'. Everyone kind of knew everyone else leveling up; who was good, who to blacklist, who was a ninja etc. At cap, people experienced frustration and the rush of success during mindless 40man raids and the r14 PvP system. I developped a group of individuals, a network, through which I played the game. How this differs from a cross-realm LFG system? We could easily argue back and forth about RL schedules, about being in seperate guilds, etc but let's not. These are all clearly issues that affect all players on all servers. But inarguably, being on a seperate server (*in the current design*) is the biggest limiting factor at play: I cannot actively engage in social activities with you because we do not share common chat servers, nor can we set up cross-faction groups- they must be PUGs.
On a realm-isolated system, grouping had longevity. You met people, developped bonds, and had solid groups if you invested the time and frustration to build your own social network. This network was accessible to all those within it, and networks obviously overlapped, meeting friends of friends etc. The biggest point I'm trying to make is that *community builds, promotes, and defines the grouping experience*. Without community, you're simply LFG to get something done. With whom? Doesn't matter, especially since we aren't on the same accessible network (server). And thus, the anti-social factor comes into play. Frustration is a necessity when longevity is part of your equation.
Again, this is in addition to cross-server character transfers, faction changes, and cross-realm BGs. It's another downward turn for the game, when you examine the social interactions that are lost in each of the processes.
That makes alot of sense, but also, you have to figure that combining the servers like this makes it more like a single-server game such as EvE, which I think is great. The only downside to this new system is that you can't really interact with most of the other players outsdie the instances. Do you think WoW would be better or worse off if they had only one huge server to deal with?
You have noted the key down-side to all the mechanics that Blizzard introduced to WoW through the years- instancing. The entire game has become instanced. No one lives outside of instances. It's almost a microcasm to our society now that I think about it: people go home, turn on the tube, and zone out. Our obese society is due in large part to inactivity- especially physical, but social as well. Take classes, or do research on, the social patterns of demographics in the early 1900s and it is immediately apparent that humans would socialize much more often and with greater purpose. Without going on a tangent, people would meet up for dinner, drop by unexpected at a coworker's home, gather around the radio while having discussions of their own just to paint a small picture.
To answer your open-ended question about WoW being better or worse off if it abolished servers and embraced a single-server EVE-style concept... I'm not sure. I think the game world is too limited to allow for that kind of density. I think parts of the game, probably around 25-55 (I remember those levels as being the loneliest and hardest to grind out), would benefit, but on the whole the game wasn't designed for it. Therefor, its implimentation would be counter-productive. In its current state, it's an absolute disaster of development when you consider all the changes and 'ease of play' that have come along. Blizzard hasn't taught its gamers how to fish, it's merely handing fish out the second someone whines for one.
I stand by my statement that this new mechanic of cross-server LFG is a patch fix to a string of social-related problems in their game. In my personal opinion, Blizzard shouldn't have opened the flood gates with cross-realm transfers, then reduce their C/D, then institute cross-faction changes as if it wasn't easy enough to hit current cap in under 1 week as it was, or reduced PvP to BGs (honor grind), then cross-realm BGs, then arena play, or reduced raid sizes from 40 to 25, then 25 sharing its fame with 10, then badges for PUG'ers.
Because for all that frustration, all that heartache, there's no denying that friendships were forged. The vast majority of people who play the game now play it alongside the people with whom they played with back then, and most cite this as their number 1 reason for not being able to quit/ stay away from the game. I do not have proof of this, but I would hope that the claims in this paragraph are universally accepted.
Blizzard should have split raiding content between 40 and 20, and 'taught' raiders 'how to fish'... easing the transition from 5man groups to 15man UBRS to 20man ZG's to 40man MC's. Blizzard should have made questing more streamlined so that reaching 60 wasn't such a chore (for solo'ers), alongside giving more instance options a la SM with 4 wings that covered 10+ levels of play (for groupers). Every change Blizzard has implimented to date has been a patch-fix to an error with their original design, and every fix has chipped away at the community.
I realize my post is rapidly losing its objectivity with statements and supporting arguments and becoming one of a rant-session so I'll stop there. Please forgive any ill-formulated thoughts as it's now closing time at work. RL still does affect online time, eh? Apologies for the mammoth post!
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
For most people, PUGs are nothing more than the last ditch effort to get something done.
Very few people are gonna consider the sociological or psychological implications, they'll just be happy that they have an increased pool of available, semi-intelligent keyboard-pokers to draft into their (likely doomed) PUG.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
This cherished guild leveling system for both PvE and PvP works against cross-realm grouping. It furthers the divide between a goal and its accomplishment. The means to one end isn't available through a resource being offered. This says, to me, there is clearly a lack of complete picture. For the very reasons you cite, mind you.
Me always playing according to my rules is precisely what I've 'ranted about' for 300 lines. It's detrimental. I've outlined why.
@ Ilvaldyr
Thank you for understanding the message without a biased interpretation. And you are 100% correct: it's not marriage, nowhere is it that serious. The simplistic outlook portrayed by your post rings true. While I examine much of the depth involved in a solid game, you cleanly state how the masses won't notice the negatives and will enjoy the simplicity of the tool being offered.
Edit: Format
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
I see this thread took a couple spins here and there and has more or less died out, judging from timestamps. I don't mean to resurrect dead topics but I feel some points hadn't been fully discussed. @ Shannia If anything, this tool promotes people to not solo. Instead of just your server ot level up with in the low levels, it gives you 19 more servers worth of peple. That is HUGE. And for those people that say "but what about when the dungeon is over, how do I keep friends with anyone I like?" That is what battle.net is for. So that way you can keep track of cross realm and cross game friends. It doesn't get more social friendly. The cross-realm LFG tool promotes an anti-social environment. Based on what you've said, I understand how you interpret the mechanic: you see more people having more access to more people. Raw number increase. I view the issue from a sociological stance- that is to say relating to social needs and issues. If your goal is purely casual and social in nature, then yes, the new mechanic works in that fashion. Same concept as online dating. I meet new people, we hang out. Nothing serious. If my goal is to solve a grouping dilemna, I've just created one. Rather than take the time and effort to meet (and suffer through meeting) people on my server that are 100% accessible, in a contact/be-contacted manner, I am now spending that time and ease of frustration through rolling the dice. Let's say I meet, and get along well with, someone from Server_32, two others from Server_15, and still another from Server_31... I have effectively done nothing towards sustaining my need to fill a group at any random time. I will perhaps, if it's even possible, group up with 1 or 2 of my cross-realm friends, but still need to fill more slots. Either I'm unable to get in contact with my other friends, or their social schedules differ due to they're being on different servers. You now no longer are using the cross-realm LFG tool as a crutch, you use it out of need. The servers themselves are barriers, and this tool is an artificial fix. Rewind a bit, and examine classic WoW. In its conception, players experienced servers which, paraphrased from Blizzard, were 'worlds unto themselves'. Everyone kind of knew everyone else leveling up; who was good, who to blacklist, who was a ninja etc. At cap, people experienced frustration and the rush of success during mindless 40man raids and the r14 PvP system. I developped a group of individuals, a network, through which I played the game. How this differs from a cross-realm LFG system? We could easily argue back and forth about RL schedules, about being in seperate guilds, etc but let's not. These are all clearly issues that affect all players on all servers. But inarguably, being on a seperate server (*in the current design*) is the biggest limiting factor at play: I cannot actively engage in social activities with you because we do not share common chat servers, nor can we set up cross-faction groups- they must be PUGs. On a realm-isolated system, grouping had longevity. You met people, developped bonds, and had solid groups if you invested the time and frustration to build your own social network. This network was accessible to all those within it, and networks obviously overlapped, meeting friends of friends etc. The biggest point I'm trying to make is that *community builds, promotes, and defines the grouping experience*. Without community, you're simply LFG to get something done. With whom? Doesn't matter, especially since we aren't on the same accessible network (server). And thus, the anti-social factor comes into play. Frustration is a necessity when longevity is part of your equation. Again, this is in addition to cross-server character transfers, faction changes, and cross-realm BGs. It's another downward turn for the game, when you examine the social interactions that are lost in each of the processes.
@ ;Palebane That makes alot of sense, but also, you have to figure that combining the servers like this makes it more like a single-server game such as EvE, which I think is great. The only downside to this new system is that you can't really interact with most of the other players outsdie the instances. Do you think WoW would be better or worse off if they had only one huge server to deal with? You have noted the key down-side to all the mechanics that Blizzard introduced to WoW through the years- instancing. The entire game has become instanced. No one lives outside of instances. It's almost a microcasm to our society now that I think about it: people go home, turn on the tube, and zone out. Our obese society is due in large part to inactivity- especially physical, but social as well. Take classes, or do research on, the social patterns of demographics in the early 1900s and it is immediately apparent that humans would socialize much more often and with greater purpose. Without going on a tangent, people would meet up for dinner, drop by unexpected at a coworker's home, gather around the radio while having discussions of their own just to paint a small picture. To answer your open-ended question about WoW being better or worse off if it abolished servers and embraced a single-server EVE-style concept... I'm not sure. I think the game world is too limited to allow for that kind of density. I think parts of the game, probably around 25-55 (I remember those levels as being the loneliest and hardest to grind out), would benefit, but on the whole the game wasn't designed for it. Therefor, its implimentation would be counter-productive. In its current state, it's an absolute disaster of development when you consider all the changes and 'ease of play' that have come along. Blizzard hasn't taught its gamers how to fish, it's merely handing fish out the second someone whines for one. I stand by my statement that this new mechanic of cross-server LFG is a patch fix to a string of social-related problems in their game. In my personal opinion, Blizzard shouldn't have opened the flood gates with cross-realm transfers, then reduce their C/D, then institute cross-faction changes as if it wasn't easy enough to hit current cap in under 1 week as it was, or reduced PvP to BGs (honor grind), then cross-realm BGs, then arena play, or reduced raid sizes from 40 to 25, then 25 sharing its fame with 10, then badges for PUG'ers. Because for all that frustration, all that heartache, there's no denying that friendships were forged. The vast majority of people who play the game now play it alongside the people with whom they played with back then, and most cite this as their number 1 reason for not being able to quit/ stay away from the game. I do not have proof of this, but I would hope that the claims in this paragraph are universally accepted. Blizzard should have split raiding content between 40 and 20, and 'taught' raiders 'how to fish'... easing the transition from 5man groups to 15man UBRS to 20man ZG's to 40man MC's. Blizzard should have made questing more streamlined so that reaching 60 wasn't such a chore (for solo'ers), alongside giving more instance options a la SM with 4 wings that covered 10+ levels of play (for groupers). Every change Blizzard has implimented to date has been a patch-fix to an error with their original design, and every fix has chipped away at the community.
I realize my post is rapidly losing its objectivity with statements and supporting arguments and becoming one of a rant-session so I'll stop there. Please forgive any ill-formulated thoughts as it's now closing time at work. RL still does affect online time, eh? Apologies for the mammoth post!
The point is a server wide LFG system, while great for constantly grouping, will not feel like the grouping in EQ or DAoC, and will not produce the same sort of community. You may like or dislike that, but unless you played one of those games you probably dont' understand the difference.
In EQ for example, those in your level range would get to know you and if you were an asshat, people loved to spread that message.
Eventually, you'd run out of people to group with, and it wasn't easy to solo. Big incentive to be nice to each other, and to be part of the community.
With this system, you could play with new people every time you game, no problem. That option didn't exist in EQ.
Some on this thread dont' understand the difference between constantly grouping, and being part of a small community.
I loved playing Diablo, but there was no community, just tons of other players to group with. That's different from playing EQ, with limited amounts of players to group with, but a very solid community.
If all you're into is the hop in and group, hop out sort of thing which already exists in WoW, and not the sort of community that existed in EQ then this works great.
If you never played EQ or DAoC, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about.
The point is a server wide LFG system, while great for constantly grouping, will not feel like the grouping in EQ or DAoC, and will not produce the same sort of community. You may like or dislike that, but unless you played one of those games you probably dont' understand the difference.
Since my answer and edit crossed your post: some few lines to think about .... player....
What's important in an on line game ???
The gamer. He has a choice of playing HIS game for 24/7 now be it in PVP or PVE, be it solo or group wise. Guild wise or realm wise... I HAVE A CHOICE.
----------
My son has a football training every night from 06.pm to 08.30pm from monday to friday. A match on saturday and sunday another training in the morning. I can only do guild play on friday and sometimes on sunday.
With a cross server PUG PVE/PVE I can enjoy myself 24/7 when I have the time, not when others dicatate me.
Simple facts that lead to succes.
Again, if you haven't played EQ or DAoC for any length of time, you probably don't know what I'm talking about.
This post doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything I said.
I was talking about a sense of community, and the sort of grouping you did in EQ and DAoC as opposed to a lobby game.
If you're just saying, hey, I LIKE lobby game,s they are great! Well, I agree with you, they can be alot of fun.
But if you're saying, hey, Lobby games are EXACTLY like open world games on a single server!
Uh, no, they aren't. You'd have try one to know the difference.
The point is a server wide LFG system, while great for constantly grouping, will not feel like the grouping in EQ or DAoC, and will not produce the same sort of community. You may like or dislike that, but unless you played one of those games you probably dont' understand the difference. In EQ for example, those in your level range would get to know you and if you were an asshat, people loved to spread that message. Eventually, you'd run out of people to group with, and it wasn't easy to solo. Big incentive to be nice to each other, and to be part of the community. With this system, you could play with new people every time you game, no problem. That option didn't exist in EQ. Some on this thread dont' understand the difference between constantly grouping, and being part of a small community. I loved playing Diablo, but there was no community, just tons of other players to group with. That's different from playing EQ, with limited amounts of players to group with, but a very solid community. If all you're into is the hop in and group, hop out sort of thing which already exists in WoW, and not the sort of community that existed in EQ then this works great. If you never played EQ or DAoC, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about.
Very valid point. I don't think most players in WoW will really care however, which is a shame. DDO is a good example of a game where in-server grouping was really successful and if anyone has played that for a while, you can relate. At least before F2P, the servers were relatively small, but there were still groups to join regardless. The community of each server was so tight that I felt like I knew most people, just by PUGing.
When I looked on the LFM to choose a group, I normally looked at the players and chose the group with players I knew were good over the ones that were arrogant and annoying. A small community has some really great "out of game" benefits like relationships and social fun. However it doesnt have any ingame tangible benefits.
Some are for one and some for the other. But I do agree, to those that haven't been inside of and a part of a small community, this idea seems great.. But for me, not so much because it is basically playing XBOX LIVE with WoW... not fun.
The point is a server wide LFG system, while great for constantly grouping, will not feel like the grouping in EQ or DAoC, and will not produce the same sort of community. You may like or dislike that, but unless you played one of those games you probably dont' understand the difference.
Since my answer and edit crossed your post: some few lines to think about .... player....
What's important in an on line game ???
The gamer. He has a choice of playing HIS game for 24/7 now be it in PVP or PVE, be it solo or group wise. Guild wise or realm wise... I HAVE A CHOICE.
----------
My son has a football training every night from 06.pm to 08.30pm from monday to friday. A match on saturday and sunday another training in the morning. I can only do guild play on friday and sometimes on sunday.
With a cross server PUG PVE/PVE I can enjoy myself 24/7 when I have the time, not when others dicatate me.
Simple facts that lead to succes.
Again, if you haven't played EQ or DAoC for any length of time, you probably don't know what I'm talking about.
This post doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything I said.
I was talking about a sense of community, and the sort of grouping you did in EQ and DAoC as opposed to a lobby game.
If you're just saying, hey, I LIKE lobby game,s they are great! Well, I agree with you, they can be alot of fun.
But if you're saying, hey, Lobby games are EXACTLY like open world games on a single server!
Uh, no, they aren't. You'd have try one to know the difference.
Dear friend,....
Did you even read what I wrote about the NEW guild leveling system that will be introduced at the same time ???
Guilds will level now in WOW, with PVE content and with a competitive PvP content (with related titles etc...).
REALM BASED GUILD LEVELING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in YOUR REALM and Oh God .... open world .
You will even NEED to do it with your guild to participate in those guild rated PvP ratings.
For example: Only BG's with a fixed GUILD % will be rated and will give you competetive titles.
This is in ADDITION to the cross servers for doing dungeons. As a matter of fact the cross servers for the BG will now come to the PVE dungeons.
BOTH plays are included.
AND ... a NEW open world PvP zone will be included too - just realm based -
It is just a further 24/7 possibility of PVP or PVE play. OPTIONS remember.
Since when is ADDING other playing options bad ???
Only when you talk about WOW you find these silly discussions.
I'm not saying it's bad. Nothing in a game is bad if there is a player base taht finds it fun.
I'm saying it's different. Not the same.
I like First Person Shooters. I also like Role Playing GAmes. Neither one is "bad". They are different.
A pugging system for jumping into instances is like a lobby game. It's not like the open world of EQ or DAoC.
Neither is "bad". both can be fun. But they are not alike. They are different.
Man, people are taking this and just twisting it far out of context.
The new system is no different than what is currently used for BG's, only this one is for instances. The vast majority of people are going to continue on as they normally do, PUGing people in chat to fill groups. I've done a number of guild BG's even thought they aren't necessary as BG's aren't all that complicated.
But what about the poor swing shift worker who can only play from 8a to 1p daily? Not a lot of people play during those times and I've never seen a scheduled run before 5p. This tool will allow them to still run instances by giving them access to a larger pool of potential partners.
WoW isn't going to turn into a lobby game just because of this, nor will socialization go out the window. If anything, a greater pool of people will be available to socialize with. These are groundless fears.
Take it only for what it is, another tool to increase a players game experience. I myself am looking forward to running level 60 instances with a level 60 group instead of a level 80 pally dragging 4 other people through it. Its going to open up a lot of old content to new players and allow people leveling up alts a chance to rediscover the old instances that tend to just get passed by because of the perception that one has to get to the highest level as fast as possible to enjoy the game.
I respect your right to voice your opinion and reserve the right to blow it right out of the water
The point is a server wide LFG system, while great for constantly grouping, will not feel like the grouping in EQ or DAoC, and will not produce the same sort of community. You may like or dislike that, but unless you played one of those games you probably dont' understand the difference.
Since my answer and edit crossed your post: some few lines to think about .... player....
What's important in an on line game ???
The gamer. He has a choice of playing HIS game for 24/7 now be it in PVP or PVE, be it solo or group wise. Guild wise or realm wise... I HAVE A CHOICE.
----------
My son has a football training every night from 06.pm to 08.30pm from monday to friday. A match on saturday and sunday another training in the morning. I can only do guild play on friday and sometimes on sunday.
With a cross server PUG PVE/PVE I can enjoy myself 24/7 when I have the time, not when others dicatate me.
Simple facts that lead to succes.
Again, if you haven't played EQ or DAoC for any length of time, you probably don't know what I'm talking about.
This post doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything I said.
I was talking about a sense of community, and the sort of grouping you did in EQ and DAoC as opposed to a lobby game.
If you're just saying, hey, I LIKE lobby game,s they are great! Well, I agree with you, they can be alot of fun.
But if you're saying, hey, Lobby games are EXACTLY like open world games on a single server!
Uh, no, they aren't. You'd have try one to know the difference.
Dear friend,....
Did you even read what I wrote about the NEW guild leveling system that will be introduced at the same time ???
Guilds will level now in WOW, with PVE content and with a competitive PvP content (with related titles etc...).
REALM BASED GUILD LEVELING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in YOUR REALM and Oh God .... open world .
You will even NEED to do it with your guild to participate in those guild rated PvP ratings.
For example: Only BG's with a fixed GUILD % will be rated and will give you competetive titles.
This is in ADDITION to the cross servers for doing dungeons. As a matter of fact the cross servers for the BG will now come to the PVE dungeons.
BOTH plays are included.
AND ... a NEW open world PvP zone will be included too - just realm based -
It is just a further 24/7 possibility of PVP or PVE play. OPTIONS remember.
Since when is ADDING other playing options bad ???
Only when you talk about WOW you find these silly discussions.
YEAH!!!
We have this guild levelling thing in other game in the past. Its quite fun.
Comments
100% agree about Vanguard. The game could be great, but SOE has done nothing but run it into the ground since they got their hands on it. The guys they have working on it do a great job, but they just arent enough to fix all the issues that have been in since beta AND add new interesting content at a reasonable rate.
Blizzard is pushing hard to make dungeons more accessible by everyone, but I hope they do try to find a balance between challenging and accessible. Making things easy, doesnt always mean it is better.
What is a PUG? <.< >.> <.<
pick up group
it's a group made up from often random players meeting each other for the first time
the opposite would be a group of friends or guild group
you "PICK THEM UP" as you go -> pick up group
pick up group
it's a group made up from often random players meeting each other for the first time
the opposite would be a group of friends or guild group
you "PICK THEM UP" as you go -> pick up group
Ok, thanks. But how is that new? I was playing in PUGs all the time in any MMO. I mean, you just enter the LFG channel or what and off you go. Whats so new?
pick up group
it's a group made up from often random players meeting each other for the first time
the opposite would be a group of friends or guild group
you "PICK THEM UP" as you go -> pick up group
Ok, thanks. But how is that new? I was playing in PUGs all the time in any MMO. I mean, you just enter the LFG channel or what and off you go. Whats so new?
Well, for WoW it's new because it's autopickup I believe, so you autojoin a group (the game tosses you in a group) and it's serverwide, so you can group with people from another server instantly.
The concept itself isn't new, that's true.
pick up group
it's a group made up from often random players meeting each other for the first time
the opposite would be a group of friends or guild group
you "PICK THEM UP" as you go -> pick up group
Ok, thanks. But how is that new? I was playing in PUGs all the time in any MMO. I mean, you just enter the LFG channel or what and off you go. Whats so new?
Well, for WoW it's new because it's autopickup I believe, so you autojoin a group (the game tosses you in a group) and it's serverwide, so you can group with people from another server instantly.
The concept itself isn't new, that's true.
Ok, IC now. Thanks for enlightning me. ^^
cross-server LFg. Ffs you could group with Jimbob the sailor of Jimnonomities server and never group with again..
Funny, I was thinking about him too, when I read that. Well, I'm fairly ambivalent about WoW, although I do play it every now and again, but I have to give them a fair deal of credit for actually encouraging grouping AND making it worthwhile. I feel a bit disconcerted that I'm actually saying something especially nice about Blizzard, but I'm sure I'll be better soon.
This is one of those ideas that I think looks good on paper, but will be, in actuality, one of the bricks on the road to hell. This more or less completely turns WoW into, as earlier posters said, a lobby game. And it also destroys any sense of continuity amongst the community in already established servers, while failing to create a global community due to limited and focused interaction.
I completely disagree. It doesn't eliminate the LFG channel. Most people will resort to that as a last effort for building a group, not the first. You still have your friends and guildies to group with and this expands you pool of people when you can't find someone on your own server within a reasonable amount of time. I can't tell you how many times in FFXI I wish there would have been something like this because we'd sit around for HOURS waiting for a WHM to log in.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I am very impressed. The only complaint is that it does not seem to support raids 10/25 yet but obvious there are more functionality needed to do that.
This will be good. Some of my alts have never seen the inside of a dungeon (aside from running through by friends) just because it is so difficult to find a group.
This will greatly enhance group play.
BTW, i think this is 1000x better than open world grouping. To be able to find anyone in the open world is just too inconvenient. It is much easier to concentrate all the lfg in one place (like using trade to lfg in cities now).
I completely disagree. It doesn't eliminate the LFG channel. Most people will resort to that as a last effort for building a group, not the first. You still have your friends and guildies to group with and this expands you pool of people when you can't find someone on your own server within a reasonable amount of time. I can't tell you how many times in FFXI I wish there would have been something like this because we'd sit around for HOURS waiting for a WHM to log in.
I don't think we can conclusively say what this will do exactly until it's implemented.
If it works and it's easy, I would think people use it first, not last. But again, we won't know till it's in place.
And, with this in place, can we build cross server guilds? Why not?
Sweet so now you can have 20 servers to ninja if your a ninja! it will take forever to run out of groups to ninja with that kinda of base to play with lol
I completely disagree. It doesn't eliminate the LFG channel. Most people will resort to that as a last effort for building a group, not the first. You still have your friends and guildies to group with and this expands you pool of people when you can't find someone on your own server within a reasonable amount of time. I can't tell you how many times in FFXI I wish there would have been something like this because we'd sit around for HOURS waiting for a WHM to log in.
And, with this in place, can we build cross server guilds? Why not?
Now that is a good question. Since it is a LFG thing, I don't think so. If they expand it for raiding and you can invite your friends (which you can do in the 5 man version) first with it, I see this as a tool to making your own PvP groups very exciting indeed.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I completely disagree. It doesn't eliminate the LFG channel. Most people will resort to that as a last effort for building a group, not the first. You still have your friends and guildies to group with and this expands you pool of people when you can't find someone on your own server within a reasonable amount of time. I can't tell you how many times in FFXI I wish there would have been something like this because we'd sit around for HOURS waiting for a WHM to log in.
And, with this in place, can we build cross server guilds? Why not?
Now that is a good question. Since it is a LFG thing, I don't think so. If they expand it for raiding and you can invite your friends (which you can do in the 5 man version) first with it, I see this as a tool to making your own PvP groups very exciting indeed.
Are you saying guilds only exist for raiding?
You could make a guild for dungeon crawling, and make it a cross server guild.
For example, I make Dungeon Crawlers United, and have it set up on all servers, and when I use the new Pugging software I look for other DCU members.
I completely disagree. It doesn't eliminate the LFG channel. Most people will resort to that as a last effort for building a group, not the first. You still have your friends and guildies to group with and this expands you pool of people when you can't find someone on your own server within a reasonable amount of time. I can't tell you how many times in FFXI I wish there would have been something like this because we'd sit around for HOURS waiting for a WHM to log in.
And, with this in place, can we build cross server guilds? Why not?
Now that is a good question. Since it is a LFG thing, I don't think so. If they expand it for raiding and you can invite your friends (which you can do in the 5 man version) first with it, I see this as a tool to making your own PvP groups very exciting indeed.
Are you saying guilds only exist for raiding?
You could make a guild for dungeon crawling, and make it a cross server guild.
For example, I make Dungeon Crawlers United, and have it set up on all servers, and when I use the new Pugging software I look for other DCU members.
No, not at all. I think that would be an awesome concept. You should run with it.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I see this thread took a couple spins here and there and has more or less died out, judging from timestamps. I don't mean to resurrect dead topics but I feel some points hadn't been fully discussed.
@ Shannia
If anything, this tool promotes people to not solo. Instead of just your server ot level up with in the low levels, it gives you 19 more servers worth of peple. That is HUGE. And for those people that say "but what about when the dungeon is over, how do I keep friends with anyone I like?" That is what battle.net is for. So that way you can keep track of cross realm and cross game friends. It doesn't get more social friendly.
The cross-realm LFG tool promotes an anti-social environment. Based on what you've said, I understand how you interpret the mechanic: you see more people having more access to more people. Raw number increase. I view the issue from a sociological stance- that is to say relating to social needs and issues.
If your goal is purely casual and social in nature, then yes, the new mechanic works in that fashion. Same concept as online dating. I meet new people, we hang out. Nothing serious.
If my goal is to solve a grouping dilemna, I've just created one. Rather than take the time and effort to meet (and suffer through meeting) people on my server that are 100% accessible, in a contact/be-contacted manner, I am now spending that time and ease of frustration through rolling the dice. Let's say I meet, and get along well with, someone from Server_32, two others from Server_15, and still another from Server_31... I have effectively done nothing towards sustaining my need to fill a group at any random time. I will perhaps, if it's even possible, group up with 1 or 2 of my cross-realm friends, but still need to fill more slots. Either I'm unable to get in contact with my other friends, or their social schedules differ due to they're being on different servers. You now no longer are using the cross-realm LFG tool as a crutch, you use it out of need. The servers themselves are barriers, and this tool is an artificial fix.
Rewind a bit, and examine classic WoW. In its conception, players experienced servers which, paraphrased from Blizzard, were 'worlds unto themselves'. Everyone kind of knew everyone else leveling up; who was good, who to blacklist, who was a ninja etc. At cap, people experienced frustration and the rush of success during mindless 40man raids and the r14 PvP system. I developped a group of individuals, a network, through which I played the game. How this differs from a cross-realm LFG system? We could easily argue back and forth about RL schedules, about being in seperate guilds, etc but let's not. These are all clearly issues that affect all players on all servers. But inarguably, being on a seperate server (*in the current design*) is the biggest limiting factor at play: I cannot actively engage in social activities with you because we do not share common chat servers, nor can we set up cross-faction groups- they must be PUGs.
On a realm-isolated system, grouping had longevity. You met people, developped bonds, and had solid groups if you invested the time and frustration to build your own social network. This network was accessible to all those within it, and networks obviously overlapped, meeting friends of friends etc. The biggest point I'm trying to make is that *community builds, promotes, and defines the grouping experience*. Without community, you're simply LFG to get something done. With whom? Doesn't matter, especially since we aren't on the same accessible network (server). And thus, the anti-social factor comes into play. Frustration is a necessity when longevity is part of your equation.
Again, this is in addition to cross-server character transfers, faction changes, and cross-realm BGs. It's another downward turn for the game, when you examine the social interactions that are lost in each of the processes.
@ ;Palebane
That makes alot of sense, but also, you have to figure that combining the servers like this makes it more like a single-server game such as EvE, which I think is great. The only downside to this new system is that you can't really interact with most of the other players outsdie the instances. Do you think WoW would be better or worse off if they had only one huge server to deal with?
You have noted the key down-side to all the mechanics that Blizzard introduced to WoW through the years- instancing. The entire game has become instanced. No one lives outside of instances. It's almost a microcasm to our society now that I think about it: people go home, turn on the tube, and zone out. Our obese society is due in large part to inactivity- especially physical, but social as well. Take classes, or do research on, the social patterns of demographics in the early 1900s and it is immediately apparent that humans would socialize much more often and with greater purpose. Without going on a tangent, people would meet up for dinner, drop by unexpected at a coworker's home, gather around the radio while having discussions of their own just to paint a small picture.
To answer your open-ended question about WoW being better or worse off if it abolished servers and embraced a single-server EVE-style concept... I'm not sure. I think the game world is too limited to allow for that kind of density. I think parts of the game, probably around 25-55 (I remember those levels as being the loneliest and hardest to grind out), would benefit, but on the whole the game wasn't designed for it. Therefor, its implimentation would be counter-productive. In its current state, it's an absolute disaster of development when you consider all the changes and 'ease of play' that have come along. Blizzard hasn't taught its gamers how to fish, it's merely handing fish out the second someone whines for one.
I stand by my statement that this new mechanic of cross-server LFG is a patch fix to a string of social-related problems in their game. In my personal opinion, Blizzard shouldn't have opened the flood gates with cross-realm transfers, then reduce their C/D, then institute cross-faction changes as if it wasn't easy enough to hit current cap in under 1 week as it was, or reduced PvP to BGs (honor grind), then cross-realm BGs, then arena play, or reduced raid sizes from 40 to 25, then 25 sharing its fame with 10, then badges for PUG'ers.
Because for all that frustration, all that heartache, there's no denying that friendships were forged. The vast majority of people who play the game now play it alongside the people with whom they played with back then, and most cite this as their number 1 reason for not being able to quit/ stay away from the game. I do not have proof of this, but I would hope that the claims in this paragraph are universally accepted.
Blizzard should have split raiding content between 40 and 20, and 'taught' raiders 'how to fish'... easing the transition from 5man groups to 15man UBRS to 20man ZG's to 40man MC's. Blizzard should have made questing more streamlined so that reaching 60 wasn't such a chore (for solo'ers), alongside giving more instance options a la SM with 4 wings that covered 10+ levels of play (for groupers). Every change Blizzard has implimented to date has been a patch-fix to an error with their original design, and every fix has chipped away at the community.
I realize my post is rapidly losing its objectivity with statements and supporting arguments and becoming one of a rant-session so I'll stop there. Please forgive any ill-formulated thoughts as it's now closing time at work. RL still does affect online time, eh?
Apologies for the mammoth post!
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
It's just PUGs mate, not marriage.
For most people, PUGs are nothing more than the last ditch effort to get something done.
Very few people are gonna consider the sociological or psychological implications, they'll just be happy that they have an increased pool of available, semi-intelligent keyboard-pokers to draft into their (likely doomed) PUG.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
@ Zorndorf
This cherished guild leveling system for both PvE and PvP works against cross-realm grouping. It furthers the divide between a goal and its accomplishment. The means to one end isn't available through a resource being offered. This says, to me, there is clearly a lack of complete picture. For the very reasons you cite, mind you.
Me always playing according to my rules is precisely what I've 'ranted about' for 300 lines. It's detrimental. I've outlined why.
@ Ilvaldyr
Thank you for understanding the message without a biased interpretation. And you are 100% correct: it's not marriage, nowhere is it that serious. The simplistic outlook portrayed by your post rings true. While I examine much of the depth involved in a solid game, you cleanly state how the masses won't notice the negatives and will enjoy the simplicity of the tool being offered.
Edit: Format
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
The point is a server wide LFG system, while great for constantly grouping, will not feel like the grouping in EQ or DAoC, and will not produce the same sort of community. You may like or dislike that, but unless you played one of those games you probably dont' understand the difference.
In EQ for example, those in your level range would get to know you and if you were an asshat, people loved to spread that message.
Eventually, you'd run out of people to group with, and it wasn't easy to solo. Big incentive to be nice to each other, and to be part of the community.
With this system, you could play with new people every time you game, no problem. That option didn't exist in EQ.
Some on this thread dont' understand the difference between constantly grouping, and being part of a small community.
I loved playing Diablo, but there was no community, just tons of other players to group with. That's different from playing EQ, with limited amounts of players to group with, but a very solid community.
If all you're into is the hop in and group, hop out sort of thing which already exists in WoW, and not the sort of community that existed in EQ then this works great.
If you never played EQ or DAoC, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about.
Since my answer and edit crossed your post: some few lines to think about .... player....
What's important in an on line game ???
The gamer. He has a choice of playing HIS game for 24/7 now be it in PVP or PVE, be it solo or group wise. Guild wise or realm wise... I HAVE A CHOICE.
----------
My son has a football training every night from 06.pm to 08.30pm from monday to friday. A match on saturday and sunday another training in the morning. I can only do guild play on friday and sometimes on sunday.
With a cross server PUG PVE/PVE I can enjoy myself 24/7 when I have the time, not when others dicatate me.
Simple facts that lead to succes.
Again, if you haven't played EQ or DAoC for any length of time, you probably don't know what I'm talking about.
This post doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything I said.
I was talking about a sense of community, and the sort of grouping you did in EQ and DAoC as opposed to a lobby game.
If you're just saying, hey, I LIKE lobby game,s they are great! Well, I agree with you, they can be alot of fun.
But if you're saying, hey, Lobby games are EXACTLY like open world games on a single server!
Uh, no, they aren't. You'd have try one to know the difference.
Very valid point. I don't think most players in WoW will really care however, which is a shame. DDO is a good example of a game where in-server grouping was really successful and if anyone has played that for a while, you can relate. At least before F2P, the servers were relatively small, but there were still groups to join regardless. The community of each server was so tight that I felt like I knew most people, just by PUGing.
When I looked on the LFM to choose a group, I normally looked at the players and chose the group with players I knew were good over the ones that were arrogant and annoying. A small community has some really great "out of game" benefits like relationships and social fun. However it doesnt have any ingame tangible benefits.
Some are for one and some for the other. But I do agree, to those that haven't been inside of and a part of a small community, this idea seems great.. But for me, not so much because it is basically playing XBOX LIVE with WoW... not fun.
Since my answer and edit crossed your post: some few lines to think about .... player....
What's important in an on line game ???
The gamer. He has a choice of playing HIS game for 24/7 now be it in PVP or PVE, be it solo or group wise. Guild wise or realm wise... I HAVE A CHOICE.
----------
My son has a football training every night from 06.pm to 08.30pm from monday to friday. A match on saturday and sunday another training in the morning. I can only do guild play on friday and sometimes on sunday.
With a cross server PUG PVE/PVE I can enjoy myself 24/7 when I have the time, not when others dicatate me.
Simple facts that lead to succes.
Again, if you haven't played EQ or DAoC for any length of time, you probably don't know what I'm talking about.
This post doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything I said.
I was talking about a sense of community, and the sort of grouping you did in EQ and DAoC as opposed to a lobby game.
If you're just saying, hey, I LIKE lobby game,s they are great! Well, I agree with you, they can be alot of fun.
But if you're saying, hey, Lobby games are EXACTLY like open world games on a single server!
Uh, no, they aren't. You'd have try one to know the difference.
Dear friend,....
Did you even read what I wrote about the NEW guild leveling system that will be introduced at the same time ???
Guilds will level now in WOW, with PVE content and with a competitive PvP content (with related titles etc...).
REALM BASED GUILD LEVELING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in YOUR REALM and Oh God .... open world .
You will even NEED to do it with your guild to participate in those guild rated PvP ratings.
For example: Only BG's with a fixed GUILD % will be rated and will give you competetive titles.
This is in ADDITION to the cross servers for doing dungeons. As a matter of fact the cross servers for the BG will now come to the PVE dungeons.
BOTH plays are included.
AND ... a NEW open world PvP zone will be included too - just realm based -
It is just a further 24/7 possibility of PVP or PVE play. OPTIONS remember.
Since when is ADDING other playing options bad ???
Only when you talk about WOW you find these silly discussions.
I'm not saying it's bad. Nothing in a game is bad if there is a player base taht finds it fun.
I'm saying it's different. Not the same.
I like First Person Shooters. I also like Role Playing GAmes. Neither one is "bad". They are different.
A pugging system for jumping into instances is like a lobby game. It's not like the open world of EQ or DAoC.
Neither is "bad". both can be fun. But they are not alike. They are different.
Man, people are taking this and just twisting it far out of context.
The new system is no different than what is currently used for BG's, only this one is for instances. The vast majority of people are going to continue on as they normally do, PUGing people in chat to fill groups. I've done a number of guild BG's even thought they aren't necessary as BG's aren't all that complicated.
But what about the poor swing shift worker who can only play from 8a to 1p daily? Not a lot of people play during those times and I've never seen a scheduled run before 5p. This tool will allow them to still run instances by giving them access to a larger pool of potential partners.
WoW isn't going to turn into a lobby game just because of this, nor will socialization go out the window. If anything, a greater pool of people will be available to socialize with. These are groundless fears.
Take it only for what it is, another tool to increase a players game experience. I myself am looking forward to running level 60 instances with a level 60 group instead of a level 80 pally dragging 4 other people through it. Its going to open up a lot of old content to new players and allow people leveling up alts a chance to rediscover the old instances that tend to just get passed by because of the perception that one has to get to the highest level as fast as possible to enjoy the game.
I respect your right to voice your opinion and reserve the right to blow it right out of the water
Since my answer and edit crossed your post: some few lines to think about .... player....
What's important in an on line game ???
The gamer. He has a choice of playing HIS game for 24/7 now be it in PVP or PVE, be it solo or group wise. Guild wise or realm wise... I HAVE A CHOICE.
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My son has a football training every night from 06.pm to 08.30pm from monday to friday. A match on saturday and sunday another training in the morning. I can only do guild play on friday and sometimes on sunday.
With a cross server PUG PVE/PVE I can enjoy myself 24/7 when I have the time, not when others dicatate me.
Simple facts that lead to succes.
Again, if you haven't played EQ or DAoC for any length of time, you probably don't know what I'm talking about.
This post doesn't seem to have anything to do with anything I said.
I was talking about a sense of community, and the sort of grouping you did in EQ and DAoC as opposed to a lobby game.
If you're just saying, hey, I LIKE lobby game,s they are great! Well, I agree with you, they can be alot of fun.
But if you're saying, hey, Lobby games are EXACTLY like open world games on a single server!
Uh, no, they aren't. You'd have try one to know the difference.
Dear friend,....
Did you even read what I wrote about the NEW guild leveling system that will be introduced at the same time ???
Guilds will level now in WOW, with PVE content and with a competitive PvP content (with related titles etc...).
REALM BASED GUILD LEVELING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! in YOUR REALM and Oh God .... open world .
You will even NEED to do it with your guild to participate in those guild rated PvP ratings.
For example: Only BG's with a fixed GUILD % will be rated and will give you competetive titles.
This is in ADDITION to the cross servers for doing dungeons. As a matter of fact the cross servers for the BG will now come to the PVE dungeons.
BOTH plays are included.
AND ... a NEW open world PvP zone will be included too - just realm based -
It is just a further 24/7 possibility of PVP or PVE play. OPTIONS remember.
Since when is ADDING other playing options bad ???
Only when you talk about WOW you find these silly discussions.
YEAH!!!
We have this guild levelling thing in other game in the past. Its quite fun.