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My dream design for STO
Anubisan
Member UncommonPosts: 1,798
I am so disappointed in the direction this game is taking. Star Trek has so much potential and I wish Cryptic was approaching it differently. Let me first explain why I feel the current direction of this game is a terrible mistake. Then I will describe my idea for how STO SHOULD have been made. I apologize in advance for the huge wall of text...
Cryptic's design for STO:
Cryptic is designing STO based around the classic themepark MMO model. The core of the gameplay is combat. From everything I have read, there is little else to do in the game. You fly around as the ship and pick up quests which direct you to various systems where you will fight enemy ships and loot them for quest rewards. Some quests will direct you to planets where you will beam down and (you guessed it) fight enemy NPCs and loot them for quest rewards. Many of the quests are randomly generated and very generic, but the overall theme is always the same. Basically you will be doing the exact same thing in STO that you do in every other MMORPG on the market. Cryptic has repeatedly said that there will be activities other than combat in the game, but they have failed to really flesh out any of these. As far as I can tell, the questing model in this game is exactly the same as what you would find in any fantasy MMO. Maybe I am wrong about this and I certainly hope this is the case...
Next we have the fact that you play AS the ship while you are in space. This concept worked in EVE, but I find it hard to understand how Cryptic does not see that this is a problem for STAR TREK. The vast majority of Star Trek has always occurred ON BOARD the ships. Many of the most interesting plot developments on the shows took place while the ship was flying from one place to another. Crypic's game design completely removes this entire aspect of Trek from the game. You can't see your bridge or the crew walking around. You can't explore your own ship at all. I know this has been brought up by many people many times already... but I feel that it is a major flaw in their design.
Everyone is a captain in Cryptic's design. There is very little motivation for players to work together for anything because each of them are in command of their own vessel, doing their own thing. Star Trek is about a crew interacting with one another and working together to accomplish goals. This simply will never happen in their game...
My design concept for STO:
My idea would focus around the character, rather than the ship. Players would start out as a cadet in Starfleet Academy and play through a short tutorial which would teach them the fundamentals of the game. They would get to experience tutorial missions such as the Kobayashi Maru. By the time the tutorial is finished, players would graduate and would get to choose from several different starter postings. These different postings would serve as starting zones for the players. One might be a posting aboard a space station, while another might be aboard a ship. Each player would then be given a shuttle with which they can travel around the federation. This shuttle can be used at any time by the player from this time forward to go off and do some solo exploring should they choose to. The shuttle can also be customized by the player in a number of ways.
The starter zone would basically be a huge NPC-run ship or space station. The player would be assigned instanced quarters which they could customize and most of the ship or station would be explorable. The player would be assigned to a commanding officer NPC who would provide missions to the player. Some would be ground-based missions, while others might be to fly a shuttle out to scan an asteroid or something. Others would be puzzle-based missions where players woud need to reconfigure the warp drives or something along that line. Players would be able to specialize their playstyle based on the field they choose. Those who are interested in combat would go on ground missions or take control of the ship's tactical station for a short period. Those interested in crafting would choose engineering, where they can create new components or modify existing ones. Those interested in healing would go the medical route and would be given medical away/ship missions. This would allow for multiple-player instanced missions where players would need to work together.
I would probably elect to go the class-based route just so that enough well-designed and specialized content would be available for each playstyle. However, I would allow every player to specialize in certain things which would allow them to approach situations differently. My game concept would have a big emphasis on mini-games and puzzles which would allow for many more ways for missions to be accomplished than just combat. For instance, a player with a high diplomacy skill might be able to talk his way out of a tricky situation and avoid a fight during a first contact mission...
As players advance through the game, they would move to new postings on different ships/stations in different areas of the galaxy. Their rank would increase throughout their play to the maximum of Lieutenant. Rank advancement beyond this point can only occur within guilds (or crews) as explained below.
Players would eventually be able to form guilds... or crews as I would call them. The leader of the crew would be the captain and the members beneath would be ranked accordingly. Based on the size and level of the crew, a ship would be assigned. As the crew advances in level together, bigger and better ships would become available. Each ship would basically be a huge instanced headquarters for the guild that could be taken from system to system and operated collectively. This idea would basically mean that every large ship in the game world (other than the NPC-controlled ones) are operated by guilds (crews). The instancing I referred to above is only for the inside of the vessel, but would allow guildmembers to have quarters and interact with each other inside the vessel. The actual ship would interact with other ships in the game world and could initiate combat with them, etc.
My idea would allow for the true co-operative Star Trek feel, but would never force players to work together if they don't want to. Guilds can choose to fly around in their ship and complete missions together, but players could always fly off on their own in their shuttles and experience the Trek universe solo if they choose. The solo option might not be completely accurate to Star Trek, but it is vital in order to offer something to everyone. Working together on a ship with a real crew would definitely feel more like Trek to me.
Obviously, if the concept worked for the federation, it could be applied to potential enemy species as well.
Anyway, I guess this is more my DREAM game. It would probably be very difficult to pull it off well, but I wish that something similar was at least attempted with STO. Discuss...
Comments
I don't like the emphasis on guilds in your version but I also find it depressing that a Star Trek game will lack ship interiors and player crews.
Personally, I wouldn't have allowed player owned and customizable ships at all. When were there ever customized ships in the federation? I can think of maybe two examples but it certainly wasn't the norm. I would have set it up so that after forming a group the crew then chose the type of ship they wanted to use and were assigned to a standard issue ship for that gaming session. The player who started the group would be the captain for that session.
Whatever, it's a little too late for all of this anyway. It's going to be a single player shoot 'em up, instanced, quest grinder. It may look like Star Trek but I'm sure it won't feel much like Star Trek. Which kinda sucks because I have some friends who are borderline Trekkies and if there was one IP I could get them interested in so we could all play together it's Star Trek. Unfortunately I don't want to play this game so I'm not even mentioning it to them anymore (they don't follow development of games at all).
This was a very well written outline and I now understand why so many people think that the current game design is flawed. It would be a role-player's paradise and allow everyone to live out their own Star Trek experience. However, I just can't seem to imagine a game based around station mini-games being fun for very long. To me it would seem like popcap with a Star Trek skin. I understand that many people love Star Trek for the plots, character interactions, and teamwork aspects, but my most memorable Star Trek moments are the Dominion War and the opening scene from First Contact. I want huge battles with lots of fiery explosions. I want to be able to explore and fight on my own. I'm probably going to spend hours trying to design an intimidating warship. Finally, you have to remember that the main reason for this game design choice is subscribers, and I may not be of the majority opinion on this site but I'm willing to bet that there are allot more people out there that would play a space combat shooter where they control the ship than a station simulation. In fact, when I'm trying to get a friend interested in this game I always play them a ship combat gameplay video. The majority of people are not looking to live out Star Trek fantasies, they just want to log in feel powerful and blow something up.
And how long do you imagine a game based on blowing things up being fun? Probably about as long as it takes for "the next big thing" to come along with flashier graphics and bigger explosions. Then what will keep people in STO?
The PvP? Not a very good chance of that considering Cryptic's previous two games had very little PvP and not much of it was fun.
The social aspect of the game? What social aspect?
The economy? You mean the one that Cryptic doesn't even know how it works yet?
Player housing? Oh wait... we aren't getting that.
The cash shop maybe? People love those...
The the problem isn't that the game has combat. The problem is that the game doesn't have anything besides combat! Your friends who want to blow things up will love this game... until the next Halo or Mass Effect gets released. Then what?
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
If the PvP is terrible I won't be sticking around, but I'm not really interested in the economy, because I never craft, and I've never had a house in a MMO, with the exception of my apartment in FFXI where I switched my jobs. As for the social aspect of the game, I'll handle that like I did in WoW, find a good guild and not worry about everyone else.
I know you don't, but I really do play games almost exclusively for the combat and I'm sure allot of other people do too.
A: Well in that case I will say goodbye to you now then. Cryptic's past track record when it comes to PvP is terrible. CoX didn't get PvP at launch, it didn't even have villians for a long time and even once the PvP came along it was always the red-headed step child of the game with PvE receiving all the attention. We are already seeing the same scenario play out again in Champions Online which has only an arena and no villians at this time.
B: You don't know anything about me.
C: Yes, I totally believe that. I never challenged it when you said it in your last post.
However, you didn't anwser my question: When the next "Halo" or "Mass Effect" gets released, what will keep those who play games only for combat playing STO? What will STO offer that a single player action game can't do better?
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
The same reason I keep going back to WoW after a surge of playing "Halo" or "Mass Effect".
Which is...?
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
I don't really see why or how this is still a surprise to anyone. Cryptic are the absolute kings of the "content-lite" MMO. Every game they have made has had very pretty, active and engaging combat; a token quest system and very little else at launch. They design with an intended content depth of the average mudpuddle. They are clearly happy to launch games with maybe 1-3 months of content for the "average" player and then maybe they expand it/maybe they don't and just sell off the franchise.
It's just vastly easier to make a simplistic game that is fun in the short run than it is to design in any kind of depth.
It's fun
And there you have it. The same people who think WoW is fun will think STO is fun.
I think my point has been made.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Cryptic can only hope! I think my point has been made.
The game isn't even out yet. How about actually playing the game before you decide if you don't like it or not.
My expectations for this game drop almost by the day, based on what we've been told by the devs, and they usually give us rose colored appraisals of their game. Sounds like CO in space and probably will be as equally incomplete when it launches. Crafting/economy, social aspects, and other old school MMO features sound like afterthoughts, if they are included at all. The game will be heavily instanced with small player per zone caps, which I hate. It sounds like the game will be a series of generic randomly generated instanced 5 person/NPC missions. Even if it's fun, I can't see this game having any staying power.
I'll probably still give it a shot unless there is mass beta tester bashing of the game, because I want it to be good...I just don't have much faith right now.
*Appologies to you OP for my wall of text
Well thought out and described, however it has been talked about in the past if you missed it. As a developer and gamer (not a developer of games) but the basic understandings of coding etc. The idea of starting out the way you design has one big flaw I see and many have and still to this day argue that is what MMO's are about. Grouping, grouping is a great part of MMO's and have been sence the start of them. UO, EQ, etc had grouping, but it was never forced. You could group if you wanted to beat a certain mob grouping, boss etc, but in the end you could solo if you so choose.
Games that limit it's player base to a focused way will automatically cut some people out of the game play. Many vocal people on these forums and others say that grouping is the only way and no MMO should have solo content. While many continue to argue this point, I personally just go by experiance, the latest being champions online. Beta in that game was fun exciting and you bet, solo. Once launched on the first day a patch was released, making basicly impossible for those that like to play a build they loved to play the game. Others (those that say it was way to easy) had a life of easy play, they tuned their characters by what was the best ability for the senario or sistuation. This in turn made the game seem way to easy and just dull. Those limited few (I can say that by the actual numbers seen on the server clusters now) made the argument and pleaded for Cryptic to change it, to make it harder etc.. Once done, the game is dead.. not completly dead but so bad off that there is even a free all out join in weekend and the game is basicly still brand new.
I use the above as an excample when you attempt to force a player base into something and give them no options. As a captain, I can do what I want in the game. I can group or not, I can follow a certain path or go another. You argue that there is only combat in the game, well it is definitly something that is only seen, sadly the other way "Diplomacy and non-combat way" doesn't make for good film. So in this , we really never see it in beta footage or promotional material. However, we do know it is there and there is actually allot of non-combat in the game. But combat is present as everyone is in war or on the brink of war.
While I understand ship interiors and feel more of a crew , I have to concure with cryptic in this regard, how boring it would be as a medical person to sit in sick bay waiting for the captain to cause casualities etc. In the end, to many other minor post would just be anoying and boring in the long run. Not to mention all the resources you would need to dedicate to each profession that it would take to actual give each class something unique and "fun" to do.
I get it I really do and I was one just as yourself that thought that way, but more and more when I actually sat outside the box and really looked at what it would take then how could a particular job be fun to play, I just couldn't see it. Because in the end, Star Trek Universe jobs ( certain ones) are mendain and boring just like real life and we all play these games to get away from that and have fun. Sure their may be 10-20 people out of every 1000 that would love to do that and actually have fun doing so. Profitable in that regard? Not really, not to a company trying to make money at it, and then not to mention "LF MEDIC!" because only a handfull will play them because everyone wants to be a gunner.
I get it, I understand it, but it really is just no possible with current tech I think. Ship interiors will come that was promised, but then again a promise isn't a garrenty, but we can hope. For now what there is, is probably the best star trek game out to date. As in the past we have yet to have one that actually was great. Sure, we had some that where descent but the history of star trek games have always been dismal. I think in the end it will take an MMO to make it what people really want out of star trek. To be part of the great exploration that star trek is all about.
chaintm
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
My expectations for this game drop almost by the day, based on what we've been told by the devs, and they usually give us rose colored appraisals of their game. Sounds like CO in space and probably will be as equally incomplete when it launches. Crafting/economy, social aspects, and other old school MMO features sound like afterthoughts, if they are included at all. The game will be heavily instanced with small player per zone caps, which I hate. It sounds like the game will be a series of generic randomly generated instanced 5 person/NPC missions. Even if it's fun, I can't see this game having any staying power.
I'll probably still give it a shot unless there is mass beta tester bashing of the game, because I want it to be good...I just don't have much faith right now.
I have to agree with darth as well in his thoughts, my previous post really aims at the OP's comments, but Darth's reasonings are along mine. In time the question becomes longetivity. We really have no clue how this will be till we get our hands on it. In that regard I sit in the same seat and am on a wait and see stance as far as that is concerned. Beyond the horrible day one patch the other issue with CO is content, way way below most single player game content if you ask me. At least prior to patch day, the game was fun and we did fly threw content at the start. However after 25 it wasn't all to bad, it started slowing down, still very playable and fun, but in the end you could (the average player) determin that you will run out of content within the next week or two.
Cryptic side stepped this topic and half way admitted they know their content is lacking and are trying to fix that, but in the end that along with the patch killed it for me. Will STO follow suite? Hard to say, the dev team is supposably bigger (we really don't know) and the team is a different team and now many from CO are pulled to STO to finish it up. So who really knows other then cryptic themselves. The differance however between STO and CO is many however so even thou the base engine for the game is the same as CO's, the concept, IP, design, etc is totally different. It will be really hard to judge such a thing till we get to see it. But again I am with Darth on this, it's a wait and see at this point, I like what I see , but in the end I did with CO in beta as well. Only time will tell.
Chaintm
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Sorry if some people don't like it or want to accept it, but the verdict is basically in on Cryptic at this point. They are simply not interested in taking the time, investing the effort and resources into launching a game with any depth of content. They confirm it at every turn and did so repeatedly even when CO was just in development.
As for the "forced grouping" issue, it's been covered before...many times. There are several ways that STO could have been done that would have *allowed* multi-player ship crews without forcing them. It's not an issue of could have/couldn't have or forced grouping or not...it was a management decision on game design. Maybe you agree with it or not, but don't act like it was a foregone conclusion or the only way they could have done it. (Personally, I'm a cynic. I think they went with the "player as ship" because they are cheap and lazy and it's a lot easier to code than most of the alternatives...heck can virtually paste over half the mechanics from flying superheroes firing freeze rays to flying starship avatars firing phasers.)
And they reused the game engine from CO. Its pretty clear what they have in mind for this game.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Some rather pessimistic views some of you have it seems. Sorry they didn't find a way to make the crew crowd happy (that is as long as the rest of us aren't penalized), but I understand their reasoning and don't think it has anything at all to do with being lazy. I'm hopeful they do have some meaningful non-combat stuff to do as all combat and no playtime does get a bit boring. I don't think Star Trek is about the ships crew as some do, but more about the Federation verus Klingon Empires. Here they can develope a bunch of content that doesn't revolve about combat. I'm also hopeful they will have cities on the planets that function with reason and star bases I can get a drink at! Until I see the end result i'm not going to sulk and make predictions that may or may not be correct!
Well the sad part is you are correct. The MMO genre as a whole is going down the shitter while all devs attempt to placate the wow crowd.
Cryptic can only hope! I think my point has been made.
I know. How HORRIBLE of Cryptic to go after fun for the masses. The bastards!!!!!!
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
The IP itself has a global following. Anyone developping it into an mmo basically doesn't have much of a choice other than to appeal to the masses. STO was never supposed to be competing with EVE or anything like that if thats what your were hoping.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Global following? So I guess you are saying that no matter where you go on the face of the earth people still have bad taste in video games and just want to watch pretty explosions?
I don't want them to COMPETE with anyone. Thats the whole point. Instead of doing their thinking with spread sheets and bank statements I want them to think with their brains and make a GOOD game, even if that means the majority of people on this planet will be too dumb to understand it.
In other words I want the Shakespeare of video games! Apparently those of you fighting to defend this game would rather have the Bevis and Butthead of video games... Well Cryptic is more than happy to give it to you.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
i dont care how much you love old shakeyspear if you dont find beavis and butthead funny you just dont have a sense of humor man!
*facepalm*
It was just an EXAMPLE, a metaphor. There is nothing wrong with Bevis and Butthead. But giggling every time someone says a dirty word, never having sex and being stupider than dirt can only be entertaining for so long. At some point you should either be looking for more out of your entertainment... or you might just end up as one of the people who thinks STO is going to be fun.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Dear OP,
I agree, the game design being followed seems to be nothing more than a quick money grab. It is flawed, and I do believe that playing as a ship is a dumb idea... for any game including EVE. However the way you would make the game is flawed as well, what if I don't want to be in Starfleet Command? What if I want to be in the Klingon Empire or a smuggler of some kind... or just a scientist?
To me the Star Trek IP should have been about freedom... which leans towards a sandbox MMO that would take MANY years to create properly. The Universe would have to be so large, with fully modeled planets that by the time it released the graphics would be dated a little... which is another thing, why the cartoon shit for an adult show? Make the graphics darker and more space-like.
Full Sail University - Game Design