Fallen Earth: Crafting is Good. Could it Be Better?

Stradden

MMORPG.com Fallen Earth Correspondent Paul Cox writes this look at the Fallen Earth crafting system as it stands today and asks a few questions about whether or not it could be improved in implementation.

Crafting has been lost in the muck lately in the gaming industry. I had found myself in conversations with friends about what would make a good crafting system for a game. Shortly after these conversations, I stumbled upon this game called Fallen Earth. It touted an impressive crafting system.

I tried it and found out that suddenly Fallen Earth has given crafting gameplay a new lease on life. With 95% of the items in game being created with player crafting, this means that there is a large crafting system in effect, right?

While this is true in a sense, it seems that the crafting system in Fallen Earth has fallen short of the proverbial "Crafter's Dream" crafting system. Don't get me wrong, it has more depth and capabilities of other systems that I have seen in other games, it just lacks in the polish and luster department.

Read Crafting is Good. Could it Be Better?

Musket-Squid

I like the crafting system they have but would like to see it changed to random item types. Meaning that if I craft a rifle 10 times it will have different stats or buffs 8 or so out of the 10. Only thing I want in a game with crafting anymore. This would make it so that one of the items could be more valuable to a certain player type than others. I really liked how AC2 did their crafting it was like this to a point, not sure if AC was the same or not.

maskedweasel

Originally posted by Bruise187


I like the crafting system they have but would like to see it changed to random item types. Meaning that if I craft a rifle 10 times it will have different stats or buffs 8 or so out of the 10. Only thing I want in a game with crafting anymore.

 

Yeah I think thats the biggest thing for most people, I think everyone was hoping for a little more "randomness" in the crafting.  Higher level players should be able to craft better low level items, etc, etc.  That would be my only gripe as a sole crafter, the only real advantage I get is that I can craft items much earlier then other players.

Thillian

I pretty much agree with this article. It's a good summary of current crafting issues and how they might improve in the future.

heremypet

I agree with the point that every crafting skill probably shouldn't be based on the same 75% intelligence 25% perception formula.

Also the point that everyone seems to be able to make whatever they might need, and so fewer people wind up buying from each other.

maskedweasel

Originally posted by heremypet


I agree with the point that every crafting skill probably shouldn't be based on the same 75% intelligence 25% perception formula.
Also the point that everyone seems to be able to make whatever they might need, and so fewer people wind up buying from each other.

 

I don't agree entirely with that, I mean,  I do think they should add special bonuses to items that are crafted with a required secondary... like any crafter can craft a sword but a crafter with a high melee skill can craft a sword with extra bonuses.. this leaves the door open for certain crafters to create base items, or items that people can later go to specialized crafters to modify... ... just my thoughts...

NovaKayne

If someone goes all crating or specifically crafting there should be some benefit to doing os.  Like being able to craft everything or items that non-crafting centric players cannot.

 

Mayhap just allow crafting specific builds be able to control the stats they put on items whereas others cannot.

Sniperace06

Yeah you guys hawe a good point that would be a + for crafters, But dont forget this game has only been out for a Month there are still stuff too be added in the near future like the Construction addon that has been talked about mutch this few weeks be able to build buildings,houses ect, and new Sectors

And lvl cap i still only ath 45 and it will be raised to lvl 150 soo i think its Too early to say anything we dont know what the Devs know and i dont think they make the game less good as it is now they will only be adding more stuff but you guys got a good point

motogonzo

 What the hell is up with MMORPG writing these passive aggressive reviews where they admit the game is the most exciting and original thing out there, but then spend most of the article picking away at it.

You admit it's one of the most ambitious and extensive crafting systems in an MMO. You say it breathes new life into MMORPG crafting. Then you start whining about it needing polish and bells and whistles.

Here's what you don't know. Fallen Earth has a smaller, faster community and development team than most games. They are constantly improving and adding to the game, sometimes twice a week.

What you are reviewing is the framework that's been laid for a fantastic game, not the final word on what Fallen Earth crafting will end up like.

I hope to see the game thrive, and new content added to the remaining SEVEN planned zones. If you keep hammering on Icarus as if it has the budget of Aion or Funcom, which are out of touch and slow moving as a result of their own bloat, it might not ever grow into the potential that real gamers see in it.

In closing, gentlemen, Paul Cox should eat a bowl of them.

 

Thank you.

RemyVorender

The crafting system itself in FE is one of my favorite ones of all time, but I also agree with the above posters...having random stats on the items would make it all the better.

I really hope Fallen Earth makes it and has a chance to mature. It is a gem of a game.

Khalathwyr

Good article.

 

First let me say I love the crafting system that FE has currently. For my entertainment, it is far better than any MMO I've played since SWG:PreNGE.

That stated, there are some things I'd like to see different. Take note I personally don't know how difficult it would be to implement them (I'm leaning toward it certainly not being easy, lol), but I'd like to see them anyway.

1) Resources having stats that factor into the quality of the item made.

2) Item degradation via use.

3) Items taking a noticeable hit to overall quality (which starts at 100) when repaired by repair kits. As an example, if my weapon degrades  from 100 quality to 25 (or any number above the minimum needed to work) and I use a repair kit on it, the new max is now 90. Repair it again and it is now 80. Some variation on this idea that makes repair kits a temporary quick fix but not a crutch.

4) With #1 in mind, npcs only sell "stock" items. These items are surpassed in "power" by player made ones that have only the smallest of better stat materials put into their making.

5) The ability to write inscriptions on player made items, ala Asheron's Call.

Musket-Squid

5) The ability to write inscriptions on player made items, ala Asheron's Call

That was another one of the things I liked from AC2 that they took from AC. Putting a sig on an item or a quote on it. I wish I could remember the Sig I seen on Quingu's drum he had but it was the best one I seen of any game so far. If you played and seen it let me now what it was again.

 

Stradden

Originally posted by motogonzo


 What the hell is up with MMORPG writing these passive aggressive reviews where they admit the game is the most exciting and original thing out there, but then spend most of the article picking away at it.
You admit it's one of the most ambitious and extensive crafting systems in an MMO. You say it breathes new life into MMORPG crafting. Then you start whining about it needing polish and bells and whistles.
Here's what you don't know. Fallen Earth has a smaller, faster community and development team than most games. They are constantly improving and adding to the game, sometimes twice a week.
What you are reviewing is the framework that's been laid for a fantastic game, not the final word on what Fallen Earth crafting will end up like.
I hope to see the game thrive, and new content added to the remaining SEVEN planned zones. If you keep hammering on Icarus as if it has the budget of Aion or Funcom, which are out of touch and slow moving as a result of their own bloat, it might not ever grow into the potential that real gamers see in it.
In closing, gentlemen, Paul Cox should eat a bowl of them.
 
Thank you.

Wow, so, did you even read the title of the article you're complaining about? Just because something is interesting, innovative and deserves praise doesn't mean it's perfect and can't be constructively criticized.

Second, this wasn't a review of the game, it was an article focusing on a specific system (hence the System Focus Title)

Third, what part of Crafting is good, but could it be better is confusing? The author never said the system as it is sucks. He never said that there wasn't a good framework there. He never said the system wouldn't change.

So, I suggest calming down, and re-reading the article with that in mind.

Distopia

Originally posted by Khalathwyr



2) Item degradation via use.


 

 

This is one thing I don't fully agree with. On one hand you do please the crafter, as well as give him a full fledged purpose. However at the expense of someone else and their belongings. Maybe if say the item didn't completely die (SWG), I could agree but making me spend millions every few weeks on a weapon (that is up to standard) is something I don't want to go through again.

Darkholme

Originally posted by Khalathwyr    ...  Good crafting ideas

That is pretty much spot on how I want crafting to be in any MMOG that I play. Crafted items be on par or better than loot drop and vendor items.  I would also like to see there be some form of experimentation and research implemented in there. One thing that I disagree with that most people are calling for is randomization. A little randomization is good, but I demand more control over what I craft... Besides, don't get me started on the RNG crutch that all developers seem to love using.

Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Khalathwyr



2) Item degradation via use.


 

 

This is one thing I don't fully agree with. On one hand you do please the crafter, as well as give him a full fledged purpose. However at the expense of someone else and their belongings. Maybe if say the item didn't completely die (SWG), I could agree but making me spend millions every few weeks on a weapon (that is up to standard) is something I don't want to go through again.

Millions? That'd have to be one heckuva weapon, lol! I can see where you'd want to not be in a situation where you'd not have a weapon. So I'm not against the idea of not having it eventually completely crumble, but once you have repaired it down to where it repairs to say a few points over it's minimum "able to function" value, I'd like to see some negatives incurred with it's use. There has to be "something" that nudges the owner to purchase a better/more complete item in order to keep the economy rolling and transactions happening. Making it so that noone has to ever buy another weapon again because of repair kits is less than ideal in my mind.

 

Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Darkholme

Originally posted by Khalathwyr    ...  Good crafting ideas

That is pretty much spot on how I want crafting to be in any MMOG that I play. Crafted items be on par or better than loot drop and vendor items.  I would also like to see there be some form of experimentation and research implemented in there. One thing that I disagree with that most people are calling for is randomization. A little randomization is good, but I demand more control over what I craft... Besides, don't get me started on the RNG crutch that all developers seem to love using.

 

If we're talking about on the final combine, I'd have to agree that I don't think I'd like randomization either. I like it in scavenging materials, both on the type of materials and any stat system assigned to those raw materials. The experimentation system in SWG was a nice touch I thought. Wouldn't mind seeing it here too.

Cerion

Simple question: Why does there have to be an economy?

 

I've played MMOs that are balls fun without them having any real economy. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I played SWG and had fun as a pure crafter -- but it also created a lot of problems (ship crafters gouging other players for one, leading devs to offer free spaceships, etc).

 

 

Mickle

Faction items should never be better than crafted items.  Please have faction items that can not be crafted so that both systems have value.

 

All  crafting recipes should require items that can ONLY be gathered from doing combat.  This allows the fighters to sell items to the non fighters.

 

All crafting recipes should require items that can ONLY be gathered.  This allows the gathers to have their own tasks to do.

 

Every recipe should require at least one or more crafted items from a lower tier, except for the starting tier.  This allows for reuse of some of the grinding parts AND it help the lower level crafters.  They can sell to higher level crafters.  It also keeps the price of resources from getting to low.

 

Every game should have an Employment Agency to help crafters find work from other players.  There are lots of times that I would be happy to do a job if I knew the job needed done.

 

NEVER, EVER, set up a game where one player can learn ALL the crafting skills.  JOATS KILL THE ECONOMY.  At the most, a player  should only be allowed to learn 1/3 of the all the crafting skills.

 

 

 

Ratticus

FE crafting is recipe based.  It's an extensive list of recipes but at the end still the same old mechanics.  I want to see a system where my decisions as a crafter effect the outcome. 

For example: Right now guns in FE are made from a barrell, stock, action, and scope.  Everytime you make the gun you combine the same parts into the same exact gun.  What I would like is the choice of a half dozen differenct stocks, actions etc each with slightly different effects.  So I would have the choice of picking an action with reduced recoil, or holding more ammo, or reduced reload time etc.  Combining 4 different gun parts with ammo (assuming 4 choices each) is 1024 different guns prior to any rare materials or crit crafting you want to add in.  More importantly then the number if items is I want a decision making role in what I am crafting other then its the higherst level gun I can craft/use. 

Darkholme

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Darkholme

Originally posted by Khalathwyr    ...  Good crafting ideas

That is pretty much spot on how I want crafting to be in any MMOG that I play. Crafted items be on par or better than loot drop and vendor items.  I would also like to see there be some form of experimentation and research implemented in there. One thing that I disagree with that most people are calling for is randomization. A little randomization is good, but I demand more control over what I craft... Besides, don't get me started on the RNG crutch that all developers seem to love using.

 

If we're talking about on the final combine, I'd have to agree that I don't think I'd like randomization either. I like it in scavenging materials, both on the type of materials and any stat system assigned to those raw materials. The experimentation system in SWG was a nice touch I thought. Wouldn't mind seeing it here too.

 

Yes that's exactly what I am talking about...

Darkholme

Originally posted by Cerion


Simple question: Why does there have to be an economy? 
I've played MMOs that are balls fun without them having any real economy.  
Don't get me wrong, I played SWG and had fun as a pure crafter -- but it also created a lot of problems (ship crafters gouging other players for one, leading devs to offer free spaceships, etc). 

A good crafting system and a player-driven economy go hand in hand, they compliment each other... You can have one without the other, but what would be the point? What's the downside?

Unknown

Difficult stuff to balance and to avoid unintended (bad) consequences. Whatever Icarus do I hope they act slowly.

 

The self-sustain crafting angle is one I personally really enjoy, mostly because it fits the setting. In the FE world it makes absolute sense to be scavenging, and to be doing and learning crafting, because it is a harsh, violent world where even a postal system struggles to exist. You never know when you have to depend on yourself and yourself alone.

 

I know that I am not being popular here, but I'd be happy if Icarus does NOT make changes to the game to force the existence of pure crafters. That is, I think depending on other players for crafting should remain optional. I do think that there could be a nice link between build and crafting expertise. For example, an advanced pistoleer type character that has also invested in crafting ought to have an advantage when crafting pistols. That would fit with the current "philosophy" but add a little more depth to the crafting system.

 

I also think this debate is too early. Let's see how the economy goes with Icarus's initial vision, and then debates about tinkering with the crafting system can be based on better information?

kb056

Originally posted by Mickle


Faction items should never be better than crafted items.  Please have faction items that can not be crafted so that both systems have value.
 
All  crafting recipes should require items that can ONLY be gathered from doing combat.  This allows the fighters to sell items to the non fighters.
 
All crafting recipes should require items that can ONLY be gathered.  This allows the gathers to have their own tasks to do.
 
Every recipe should require at least one or more crafted items from a lower tier, except for the starting tier.  This allows for reuse of some of the grinding parts AND it help the lower level crafters.  They can sell to higher level crafters.  It also keeps the price of resources from getting to low.
 
Every game should have an Employment Agency to help crafters find work from other players.  There are lots of times that I would be happy to do a job if I knew the job needed done.
 
NEVER, EVER, set up a game where one player can learn ALL the crafting skills.  JOATS KILL THE ECONOMY.  At the most, a player  should only be allowed to learn 1/3 of the all the crafting skills.
 
 
 

I agree with what Mick said with 2 addiions.

 

 

1:All items Eventually(this is a fine edge to to get) Decay to 0, ie, useless.

B:Varying qualities in crafting resources that allows "The Best" items craftable to change every month or so.

vladww

Some good suggestions in this thread. But mostly imo :

- No more repair kits

- No more NPC vendors : let the crafters / scavengers open up a player driver economy

- Full item decay

 

 

Distopia

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Khalathwyr



2) Item degradation via use.


 

 

This is one thing I don't fully agree with. On one hand you do please the crafter, as well as give him a full fledged purpose. However at the expense of someone else and their belongings. Maybe if say the item didn't completely die (SWG), I could agree but making me spend millions every few weeks on a weapon (that is up to standard) is something I don't want to go through again.

Millions? That'd have to be one heckuva weapon, lol! I can see where you'd want to not be in a situation where you'd not have a weapon. So I'm not against the idea of not having it eventually completely crumble, but once you have repaired it down to where it repairs to say a few points over it's minimum "able to function" value, I'd like to see some negatives incurred with it's use. There has to be "something" that nudges the owner to purchase a better/more complete item in order to keep the economy rolling and transactions happening. Making it so that noone has to ever buy another weapon again because of repair kits is less than ideal in my mind.

 

I like the idea of crafters playing a tad more like repair men TBH. Think smugglers in swg, charging for slicing etc... On top of crafting the items, repairing them could create a decent client/service dependance.