Originally posted by a_name Exactly, the kicker is where I call it the empasse. Who can define what active means. It can't be active when you purchase it because it sits on a store shelf and is shipped, it's active when the key is assigned. Now it becomes an active prepaid card when it has been purchased. It filled out 2 parameters so it's definition changed from just an active card to "an active prepaid card" because the time is not exhausted (in the case of china points). That would make it an "inactive prepaid card" because if I remember right, that's what you put in your post that once used they are "expired" but the site makes no claim about what a not expired card is - they only use one word - active to describe the card. I suppose what you are expecting to read is that they count "an activated prepaid card" but it says active - just plain old active.
You say it's when you put it into the system, I say it's when it's given a key.
OK tell me how blizzard resolves this situation.
January: I buy 2 prepaid time cards.
March: I use 1 time card.
November: I use the second time card.
So according to your logic, Blizzard counts me in January as 2 active subscriptions.
How then do they deal with the march/november situations where I a actually playing the game?
Where your logic breaks down is when compared to what the blizzard definition is. Buying a time card doesn't make you a subscriber UNTIL you use it. You cannot access the game until you activate the card and every area of the definition details paid access to the game. Your stance is that blizzard is not counting people who are actually logging in to the game.
Just like buying the wow box at the store doesn't make you a subscriber until you activate the code in the box. That is why blizzard is clear they count people in their first free month. Otherwise why wouldn't they just count game boxes sold as it is the same contention as you have blizzard counting time cards sold and not active accounts.
What Blizzard considers Active has a very simple answer.
WoW Account Management states if a subscription is active or not. Additionally, it states by what payment method it is active (if active) In addition to this, it states if there are any "pending" subscriptions.
If you buy 2 gamecards (or 200 for that sake) and type them all in. 1, and ONLY 1 will be considered active, and the 1 (or 199) remaining, will be considered pending.
Any active subscription does not reflect 1 human individual, as any individual might own more than 1 account. It simply means individual accounts.
Legal authorities (or even individuals interested in laws) LOVE to get companies for these kind of issues, so it is not a risk any self-aware company dares to take. Conspiracy theories like these are ridiculus, nor do they have anything to back up their claims. Your own calculations are most probably incorrect, and if they are not, you've probably been lucky and will never find out if they are. This thread has been ignoring the basics of all business related theory, and is thoroughly flawed.
I tried to understand what you were getting at, but I'm not sure I do. A subscription keeps the same name no matter what timecard is currently be used on that subscription.
If a subscription has no time left on the card, it no longer counts as a subscription according to what Blizzard has stated.
From their text an "active prepaid card" counts as a sub.
And what does that card get used on? An account.
Threads like these should be shot.
Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to log into my WoW account paid for by gametime card...but wait, I might not actually count right?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Eh that definition is fairly self-explanatory. If you have an active subscription or time card then you are considered a subscriber. Since they made that a matter of public record if they were now caught lying that probably wouldn't do too well with their stock.
At it's HEIGHT WoW reported over 12m subscribers. However, more than half of those were in the Asian markets. The way MMO's work throughout Asia are starkly different than the way they do here in the west.
Main differences:
There is no monthly subscription. You buy time, just like a pre-paid cell phone, for (usually) individual characters. This time is bought per hour in chunks of usually 60 or more hours. These hours NEVER expire.
There is usually NEVER a retail box price. Yes, that's right, throughout the majority of Asia they DO NOT have to pay a retail box price in addition to their subscriptions. I only bring this up because it shows that we here in the west are, in fact, getting screwed when it comes to mmo's. With company's trying to add RMT now they're trying to triple-dip the market. Over in Asia an MMO either has you buy hours per character (that kind of sucks) OR they have a cash shop, not both (from what I've seen, could very easily be wrong). Plus, again, no retail box price.
The 'subscription' definition is important for the Asian markets because (obviously) their subscriptions never run out. So if they have even just one hour on a character that they don't play anymore then that falls under Blizzard definition.
I'm also bringing this up in the vain hope that the knowledge that we in the western MMO markets are getting bent over a table will spread and spark some kind of revolt. I know that isn't going to happen though.
I tried to understand what you were getting at, but I'm not sure I do. A subscription keeps the same name no matter what timecard is currently be used on that subscription.
If a subscription has no time left on the card, it no longer counts as a subscription according to what Blizzard has stated.
From their text an "active prepaid card" counts as a sub.
And what does that card get used on? An account.
Threads like these should be shot.
Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to log into my WoW account paid for by gametime card...but wait, I might not actually count right?
Yeah, keep in mind folks that the timecard has to be ACTIVE to all under Blizzard definition. Once a timecard is active it will eventually run out. This isn't like my above post where a timecard is only used up if someone is playing to use the time.
honestly i dont even believe anything remote to 5 mil even. lets say there are a medium of 10k players pe server. and there are 500 servers, which are not.. probably around 300. 10k players x 500 servers would be 5 mil players. where did they pull 10 mil subs? only a few full servers have 20k chars at most and thats after short periods of new expansions. maybe im missing something...
Ummm, go look at the NA website then look at the server list there. There are about 230+ servers listed. 10k x 230 = 2.3m+. That's just for the NA servers.
The Euro servers are listed on a separate website, but if you go look there then you'll see about another 250+ servers listed. 10kx250 = 2.5m+. Simple addition now and we come out to about 5m. Get it now?
Disclaimer: I do not play WoW anymore nor do I plan to ever again. The game -did- do some good things for the industry, but now is doing nothing but harm. WoW is an industry leader and other members of that industry are watching to see what they do. Like it or not WoW has become the gold standard. The more utterly stupid crap Blizzard pulls the more this industry is going to suffer.
Ummm, go look at the NA website then look at the server list there. There are about 230+ servers listed. 10k x 230 = 2.3m+. That's just for the NA servers. The Euro servers are listed on a separate website, but if you go look there then you'll see about another 250+ servers listed. 10kx250 = 2.5m+. Simple addition now and we come out to about 5m. Get it now?
Disclaimer: I do not play WoW anymore nor do I plan to ever again. The game -did- do some good things for the industry, but now is doing nothing but harm. WoW is an industry leader and other members of that industry are watching to see what they do. Like it or not WoW has become the gold standard. The more utterly stupid crap Blizzard pulls the more this industry is going to suffer.
It's 596 realms, not counting the eastern part (4.2 M playing there in the first week of relaunch China). Because there ARE servers outside of NA/EU you know ....
So What stupid remark.
It is NOT because Blizzard standards can't be met, that this "industry" for what it is really "worth" should be "protected'.
I already gave MUCH too MUCH money on the duds in MMO land.
It is time quality reigns and not the pissing on the ONE and only company that can come up with real value for money in gaming options.
Blizzard raised the bar (and it does this constantly btw) and the others simply can't give ANY decent alternative to play for.
Hence the market share of a yearly 1.2 billion dollars revenu.
The rest have the peanuts. AS SHOULD BE, if they can't keep up with them.
And you continue to prove just how much of a moron you are. You're the Glen Beck of mmorpg.com.
I was commenting on how the person I quoted used incorrect reasoning to determine the market share of the western markets.
You can go around and shout and shake your stick as much as you want, but certainty is a poor substitute for rightness. All I've said is my opinion and that's all you've done. Yet you CONSTANTLY go around making a point out of trying to turn opinion into fact.
By your logic in the numbers game then WoW is of lower quality of a game compared to Maple Story, a game that boasts over 20 million subscribers.
If you think that going around comparing the quality of a game that's had 5 years of post release development vs one with one then you are sorely mistaken. At release WoW was in a similiar condition of recent MMO releases. This is fact, but it's one that cannot be currently proved because that version of the game doesn't exist anymore.
Bllizard has figured out a successful formula for creating content. This formula can be copied, but keep in mind that Blizzard didn't come up with it until the middle of BC. After they had already established a stable client and server code, which they did not have at release. The only reason why WoW got away with being in such a state is because at the time of release MMO's were, as an entire industry, niche. People so easily forget that MMO's did not come to prominence until around the time BC came out.
This is largely credit to Blizzard, something I'm not going to dispute. I will, however, dispute whether or not this is an entirely good thing. What it has done is create jerk-offs who do not entirely understand the industry. So they blindly defend and follow WoW without knowing the underlying structure upon which they tread.
What it has also done is create a notice in the gaming world that MMO's can be extremely profitable to the point of being able to outshine any other form of game. This has caused the gaming industries leaders to be willing to throw money into their development. However, where this money is allocated is largely directed in the vein of trying to re-create the success that WoW currently enjoys. This happens in the course of development rather than at the outset. This is evident by merely reading the original intentions of developers versus the end product.
The good in WoW: This is the stuff that every single MMO must and should now live up to.
Smooth, organic combat that is intuitive.
Highly polished content.
Highly polished client that usually has few bugs or other issues.
The bad in WoW: These are the things that being repeated through a lack of understanding, but shouldn't.
A destructive community that is encouraged and rewarded for rejecting the company of others.
An atmosphere that breeds low-ends by easily handing gear and 'achievements' to people.
A complete lack of any sense of a world. Not in the escapist sense, but in the pure sense of fiction. I felt more at role while playing WC3 than I ever have while playing WoW. Meaning my character seemed as if in an actual world setting. This is a major problem trying to create an mmo where your character is a great hero. Any lore you try to create is immediately corrupted by the fact that every single other player character you see is in the exact same position. I imagine this is one reason why the need to attune to raids was done away with.
There are many reasons why WoW should be studied when developing an mmo. However, there are just as many if not more things to NOT study.
Ummm, go look at the NA website then look at the server list there. There are about 230+ servers listed. 10k x 230 = 2.3m+. That's just for the NA servers. The Euro servers are listed on a separate website, but if you go look there then you'll see about another 250+ servers listed. 10kx250 = 2.5m+. Simple addition now and we come out to about 5m. Get it now?
Disclaimer: I do not play WoW anymore nor do I plan to ever again. The game -did- do some good things for the industry, but now is doing nothing but harm. WoW is an industry leader and other members of that industry are watching to see what they do. Like it or not WoW has become the gold standard. The more utterly stupid crap Blizzard pulls the more this industry is going to suffer.
It's 596 realms, not counting the eastern part (4.2 M playing there in the first week of relaunch China). Because there ARE servers outside of NA/EU you know ....
So What stupid remark.
It is NOT because Blizzard standards can't be met, that this "industry" for what it is really "worth" should be "protected'.
I already gave MUCH too MUCH money on the duds in MMO land.
It is time quality reigns and not the pissing on the ONE and only company that can come up with real value for money in gaming options.
Blizzard raised the bar (and it does this constantly btw) and the others simply can't give ANY decent alternative to play for.
Hence the market share of a yearly 1.2 billion dollars revenu.
The rest have the peanuts. AS SHOULD BE, if they can't keep up with them.
And you continue to prove just how much of a moron you are. You're the Glen Beck of mmorpg.com.
I was commenting on how the person I quoted used incorrect reasoning to determine the market share of the western markets.
You can go around and shout and shake your stick as much as you want, but certainty is a poor substitute for rightness. All I've said is my opinion and that's all you've done. Yet you CONSTANTLY go around making a point out of trying to turn opinion into fact.
By your logic in the numbers game then WoW is of lower quality of a game compared to Maple Story, a game that boasts over 20 million subscribers.
If you think that going around comparing the quality of a game that's had 5 years of post release development vs one with one then you are sorely mistaken. At release WoW was in a similiar condition of recent MMO releases. This is fact, but it's one that cannot be currently proved because that version of the game doesn't exist anymore.
Bllizard has figured out a successful formula for creating content. This formula can be copied, but keep in mind that Blizzard didn't come up with it until the middle of BC. After they had already established a stable client and server code, which they did not have at release. The only reason why WoW got away with being in such a state is because at the time of release MMO's were, as an entire industry, niche. People so easily forget that MMO's did not come to prominence until around the time BC came out.
This is largely credit to Blizzard, something I'm not going to dispute. I will, however, dispute whether or not this is an entirely good thing. What it has done is create jerk-offs who do not entirely understand the industry. So they blindly defend and follow WoW without knowing the underlying structure upon which they tread.
What it has also done is create a notice in the gaming world that MMO's can be extremely profitable to the point of being able to outshine any other form of game. This has caused the gaming industries leaders to be willing to throw money into their development. However, where this money is allocated is largely directed in the vein of trying to re-create the success that WoW currently enjoys. This happens in the course of development rather than at the outset. This is evident by merely reading the original intentions of developers versus the end product.
The good in WoW: This is the stuff that every single MMO must and should now live up to.
Smooth, organic combat that is intuitive.
Highly polished content.
Highly polished client that usually has few bugs or other issues.
The bad in WoW: These are the things that being repeated through a lack of understanding, but shouldn't.
A destructive community that is encouraged and rewarded for rejecting the company of others.
An atmosphere that breeds low-ends by easily handing gear and 'achievements' to people.
A complete lack of any sense of a world. Not in the escapist sense, but in the pure sense of fiction. I felt more at role while playing WC3 than I ever have while playing WoW. Meaning my character seemed as if in an actual world setting. This is a major problem trying to create an mmo where your character is a great hero. Any lore you try to create is immediately corrupted by the fact that every single other player character you see is in the exact same position. I imagine this is one reason why the need to attune to raids was done away with.
There are many reasons why WoW should be studied when developing an mmo. However, there are just as many if not more things to NOT study.
I disagree with a few of your WoW negatives. Seems like the WoW hater party line comments that somehow the WoW community is worse than any other mmorpg community. I have found idiots, immature spammers, and griefers in every mmorpg I've played in the last decade. The only difference in WoW is that it has so many more gamers than any other mmorpg atm, that it seems worse because with millions of people, you have a few more bad apples than is the norm. As for the "A destructive community that is encouraged and rewarded for rejecting the company of others" comment, it's overdramatic to say the least. I grouped, raided, and rarely played the game solo. It is a casual mmorpg with solo and group content. And the "an atmosphere that breeds low-ends by easily handing gear and 'achievements' to people" comment just makes you come across as an elitist gamer that feels the need to knock a whole community of gamers because you don't like a game.
As long as gamers continue to create threads and post insulting WoW where you villify everyone that likes the game, you will continue to get flamed and criticized back. If you don't like a game and want to tell us why, fine. Just be prepared to defend yourself when you make negative generalized statements about a whole community of people that, for sooooome reason, may take offense to being called "a destructive community" and "low-end".
Again, you are misunderstanding because you do not see beyond the surface. Maybe you do, but it doesn't seem like it.
The ATMOSPHERE that WoW has created breeds a self-destructive community. This ATMOSPHERE has been replicated through copying material from WoW. The material in question is the ease of which an individual can 'accomplish' without actually accomplishing anything. The atmosphere I'm talking about is that, by it's very nature, a community is this vestigial thing. WoW is a world of individuals being rewarded for denying those around them. This is a problem, a real problem.
Did I say that the community in WoW was any worse than any other mmo? No. If anything I said that the problems that create these communities stem from WoW, but that doesn't mean that the community itself is any better or worse - just the original source.
Similarly, by so easily handing things to people you do create a massive disease of complacency. People don't feel the need to improve because there is no reason to. Difficulty to obtain something does NOT need to equate to the time it takes to get it and in fact, strictly speaking, does not. Of course there are system-specific (code) restrictions on just how much player skill you can involve in difficulty. There is a strict limit on just how good a person can be within that system. You can learn to time attacks, plan movements and potions only to a point. This isn't like Soul Caliber or King of Fighters or some such where the system-limited cap on just how good a player can be is extremely high.
However, there is still quite a lot that can be done. The only reason why it isn't is because whenever Blizzard has tried people have rejected it. This is PRIMARILY their own fault by creating this atmosphere of complacency in the first place. People have gotten so used to not having to improve to 'achieve' that when content is introduced that would force them to there is a massive public outcry.
PS - This is why I quit WoW and will never return. I used to play a rogue and I prided myself on having a strong desire to improve in both pve and pvp. I never had the desire to be a top pvp'er, though to be honest I could have been if I had bothered to grind through to face like-minded people. In pve rogues had (and I believe still have) to time rotations perfectly and be able to adapt to your environment very quickly. This became a problem for me because even though I constantly topped out dps charts throughout BT I had to struggle to do so. And close behind (within .01% usually) would be a lock who just facerolled their keyboard. I continued into WotLk, but then with that insane paladin buff...well, most of you know the end of this story. There became little point to trying to improve when there were classes that could use three buttons and just destroy everything.
Again, you are misunderstanding because you do not see beyond the surface. Maybe you do, but it doesn't seem like it. The ATMOSPHERE that WoW has created breeds a self-destructive community. This ATMOSPHERE has been replicated through copying material from WoW. The material in question is the ease of which an individual can 'accomplish' without actually accomplishing anything. The atmosphere I'm talking about is that, by it's very nature, a community is this vestigial thing. WoW is a world of individuals being rewarded for denying those around them. This is a problem, a real problem. Did I say that the community in WoW was any worse than any other mmo? No. If anything I said that the problems that create these communities stem from WoW, but that doesn't mean that the community itself is any better or worse - just the original source. Similarly, by so easily handing things to people you do create a massive disease of complacency. People don't feel the need to improve because there is no reason to. Difficulty to obtain something does NOT need to equate to the time it takes to get it and in fact, strictly speaking, does not. Of course there are system-specific (code) restrictions on just how much player skill you can involve in difficulty. There is a strict limit on just how good a person can be within that system. You can learn to time attacks, plan movements and potions only to a point. This isn't like Soul Caliber or King of Fighters or some such where the system-limited cap on just how good a player can be is extremely high. However, there is still quite a lot that can be done. The only reason why it isn't is because whenever Blizzard has tried people have rejected it. This is PRIMARILY their own fault by creating this atmosphere of complacency in the first place. People have gotten so used to not having to improve to 'achieve' that when content is introduced that would force them to there is a massive public outcry.
PS - This is why I quit WoW and will never return. I used to play a rogue and I prided myself on having a strong desire to improve in both pve and pvp. I never had the desire to be a top pvp'er, though to be honest I could have been if I had bothered to grind through to face like-minded people. In pve rogues had (and I believe still have) to time rotations perfectly and be able to adapt to your environment very quickly. This became a problem for me because even though I constantly topped out dps charts throughout BT I had to struggle to do so. And close behind (within .01% usually) would be a lock who just facerolled their keyboard. I continued into WotLk, but then with that insane paladin buff...well, most of you know the end of this story. There became little point to trying to improve when there were classes that could use three buttons and just destroy everything.
Originally posted by Lord_Ixigan (1a) If you think that going around comparing the quality of a game that's had 5 years of post release development vs one with one then you are sorely mistaken. At release WoW was in a similiar condition of recent MMO releases. This is fact, but it's one that cannot be currently proved because that version of the game doesn't exist anymore. Bllizard has figured out a successful formula for creating content. This formula can be copied, but keep in mind that Blizzard didn't come up with it until the middle of BC. After they had already established a stable client and server code, which they did not have at release. (1b) The only reason why WoW got away with being in such a state is because at the time of release MMO's were, as an entire industry, niche. People so easily forget that MMO's did not come to prominence until around the time BC came out. This is largely credit to Blizzard, something I'm not going to dispute. I will, however, dispute whether or not this is an entirely good thing. (2) What it has done is create jerk-offs who do not entirely understand the industry. So they blindly defend and follow WoW without knowing the underlying structure upon which they tread. (3) What it has also done is create a notice in the gaming world that MMO's can be extremely profitable to the point of being able to outshine any other form of game. This has caused the gaming industries leaders to be willing to throw money into their development. However, where this money is allocated is largely directed in the vein of trying to re-create the success that WoW currently enjoys. This happens in the course of development rather than at the outset. This is evident by merely reading the original intentions of developers versus the end product. The good in WoW: This is the stuff that every single MMO must and should now live up to. Smooth, organic combat that is intuitive. Highly polished content. Highly polished client that usually has few bugs or other issues.
The bad in WoW: These are the things that being repeated through a lack of understanding, but shouldn't. (4) A destructive community that is encouraged and rewarded for rejecting the company of others. (5) An atmosphere that breeds low-ends by easily handing gear and 'achievements' to people. A complete lack of any sense of a world. Not in the escapist sense, but in the pure sense of fiction. I felt more at role while playing WC3 than I ever have while playing WoW. Meaning my character seemed as if in an actual world setting. This is a major problem trying to create an mmo where your character is a great hero. Any lore you try to create is immediately corrupted by the fact that every single other player character you see is in the exact same position. I imagine this is one reason why the need to attune to raids was done away with.
There are many reasons why WoW should be studied when developing an mmo. However, there are just as many if not more things to NOT study.
(1a)-(1b) Wow was not in the same conditions as other mmos at its release. That is the common misconception that so many people repeat here as if it was fact. Did wow have performance issues? Yes. Were people still waiting in line for hours to get into a game? People were waiting to get into the game, because it was designed with a mentality of "Is this fun". Wow delivered something that offered a fresh experience in a genre that was pretty stale. It delivered fun right out of the box and smooth gameplay. The performance issues were a direct result of the well designed gameply wow that caused massive demand that overwhemled the game servers.
Just to show how incorrect you are, EQ2 released within 2 weeks of wow. If wow was in the same shape as any other mmo then why did eq2 bomb? Yes it did bomb, because they were merging servers within the first year of operation and those servers were once full. Two big name, big budget, big advertising mmos released in the same month. One could not add game servers fast enough and one lost roughly half of its paying subscribers in the first year.
(2) Honestly I think you are displaying a great deal of misinformation in your posts and it is not the best idea for you to criticize people for their ignorance.
(3) You could not be any further from the truth. Ultima Online started the ball rolling on how successful mmos could be. If you don't agree with that then you cannot get past the fact that Everquest was all the buzz in the industry for huge success. That is when you started seeing companies creating projects that cost 10-20-30-40-50 million dollars to produce, including wow. Just think about that for a second. Wow was already in competition with huge budget projects that were in the works before its release. Wow could not start something that was already happening when it released. All you are pointing out is the avalache(entire genre) gaining more momentum, not the point where it started out a snowball (UO/EQ).
(4) Again Everquest had a horrible community in a game that forced grouping. I think you don't understand that there will be people, no matter what game they play, that are going to be assholes. That is a result of the interwebs, not wows "easy" gameplay.
(5) Why is it that almost everytime someone complains about the wow community they follow it up with some sort of comments that offhandedly make them out to be mmo aristocracy. Low-ends? Why not just call the population of wow lesser gamers like everyone else who has a pale view of the game ? Wow players are still gamers just like everyone else on this site. I highly doubt any of them would struggle in whatever you view as a "high-end" player game. Odds are those games are not as popular or you think they are hard due to some ridiculously nauseating time sinks, archaic gameplay or just aweful performance. Time as a barrier to completing goals is not a factor of difficulty and it does not take skill to spend time online repeating trivial tasks. That is where many people misunderstand "hard" in mmos.
Guess we are due yet another ridiculous post about wow numbers.
Blizzard has share holders, if they are lying, there in big trouble.
They are not lying, deal with its popularity.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Now now Metal...people have to come here to justify why they do not like WoW and gain acceptance from others about their radical views...you know...you are not cool if you like the "in" thing.
Yo, Chaos. I'm really happy for you, and I'ma let you finish, but WoW is the most successful MMO in all of MMO gaming history by leaps and bounds and to deny this is purely childish tantrum antics. IN ALL OF MMO GAMING HISTORY!
Added some stuff you left out. Hope you don't mind.
/endsarcasm
No one is denying WoW's success. Sit down and take a valium fanboi. I think I just heard your arena queue, better alt-tab back!
/okliedaboutendsarcasm
NEWS FLASH! PAYING THE SUB IN F2P = NO DIFFERENCE THAN P2P GAMES!
Comments
OK tell me how blizzard resolves this situation.
January: I buy 2 prepaid time cards.
March: I use 1 time card.
November: I use the second time card.
So according to your logic, Blizzard counts me in January as 2 active subscriptions.
How then do they deal with the march/november situations where I a actually playing the game?
Where your logic breaks down is when compared to what the blizzard definition is. Buying a time card doesn't make you a subscriber UNTIL you use it. You cannot access the game until you activate the card and every area of the definition details paid access to the game. Your stance is that blizzard is not counting people who are actually logging in to the game.
Just like buying the wow box at the store doesn't make you a subscriber until you activate the code in the box. That is why blizzard is clear they count people in their first free month. Otherwise why wouldn't they just count game boxes sold as it is the same contention as you have blizzard counting time cards sold and not active accounts.
What Blizzard considers Active has a very simple answer.
WoW Account Management states if a subscription is active or not. Additionally, it states by what payment method it is active (if active) In addition to this, it states if there are any "pending" subscriptions.
If you buy 2 gamecards (or 200 for that sake) and type them all in. 1, and ONLY 1 will be considered active, and the 1 (or 199) remaining, will be considered pending.
Any active subscription does not reflect 1 human individual, as any individual might own more than 1 account. It simply means individual accounts.
Legal authorities (or even individuals interested in laws) LOVE to get companies for these kind of issues, so it is not a risk any self-aware company dares to take. Conspiracy theories like these are ridiculus, nor do they have anything to back up their claims. Your own calculations are most probably incorrect, and if they are not, you've probably been lucky and will never find out if they are. This thread has been ignoring the basics of all business related theory, and is thoroughly flawed.
From their text an "active prepaid card" counts as a sub.
And what does that card get used on? An account.
Threads like these should be shot.
Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to log into my WoW account paid for by gametime card...but wait, I might not actually count right?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Eh that definition is fairly self-explanatory. If you have an active subscription or time card then you are considered a subscriber. Since they made that a matter of public record if they were now caught lying that probably wouldn't do too well with their stock.
At it's HEIGHT WoW reported over 12m subscribers. However, more than half of those were in the Asian markets. The way MMO's work throughout Asia are starkly different than the way they do here in the west.
Main differences:
There is no monthly subscription. You buy time, just like a pre-paid cell phone, for (usually) individual characters. This time is bought per hour in chunks of usually 60 or more hours. These hours NEVER expire.
There is usually NEVER a retail box price. Yes, that's right, throughout the majority of Asia they DO NOT have to pay a retail box price in addition to their subscriptions. I only bring this up because it shows that we here in the west are, in fact, getting screwed when it comes to mmo's. With company's trying to add RMT now they're trying to triple-dip the market. Over in Asia an MMO either has you buy hours per character (that kind of sucks) OR they have a cash shop, not both (from what I've seen, could very easily be wrong). Plus, again, no retail box price.
The 'subscription' definition is important for the Asian markets because (obviously) their subscriptions never run out. So if they have even just one hour on a character that they don't play anymore then that falls under Blizzard definition.
I'm also bringing this up in the vain hope that the knowledge that we in the western MMO markets are getting bent over a table will spread and spark some kind of revolt. I know that isn't going to happen though.
From their text an "active prepaid card" counts as a sub.
And what does that card get used on? An account.
Threads like these should be shot.
Now if you'll excuse me, I am going to log into my WoW account paid for by gametime card...but wait, I might not actually count right?
Yeah, keep in mind folks that the timecard has to be ACTIVE to all under Blizzard definition. Once a timecard is active it will eventually run out. This isn't like my above post where a timecard is only used up if someone is playing to use the time.
honestly i dont even believe anything remote to 5 mil even.
lets say there are a medium of 10k players pe server.
and there are 500 servers, which are not.. probably around 300.
10k players x 500 servers would be 5 mil players.
where did they pull 10 mil subs? only a few full servers have 20k chars at most and thats after short periods of new expansions.
maybe im missing something...
Ummm, go look at the NA website then look at the server list there. There are about 230+ servers listed. 10k x 230 = 2.3m+. That's just for the NA servers.
The Euro servers are listed on a separate website, but if you go look there then you'll see about another 250+ servers listed. 10kx250 = 2.5m+. Simple addition now and we come out to about 5m. Get it now?
Disclaimer: I do not play WoW anymore nor do I plan to ever again. The game -did- do some good things for the industry, but now is doing nothing but harm. WoW is an industry leader and other members of that industry are watching to see what they do. Like it or not WoW has become the gold standard. The more utterly stupid crap Blizzard pulls the more this industry is going to suffer.
It's 596 realms, not counting the eastern part (4.2 M playing there in the first week of relaunch China). Because there ARE servers outside of NA/EU you know ....
So What stupid remark.
It is NOT because Blizzard standards can't be met, that this "industry" for what it is really "worth" should be "protected'.
I already gave MUCH too MUCH money on the duds in MMO land.
It is time quality reigns and not the pissing on the ONE and only company that can come up with real value for money in gaming options.
Blizzard raised the bar (and it does this constantly btw) and the others simply can't give ANY decent alternative to play for.
Hence the market share of a yearly 1.2 billion dollars revenu.
The rest have the peanuts. AS SHOULD BE, if they can't keep up with them.
And you continue to prove just how much of a moron you are. You're the Glen Beck of mmorpg.com.
I was commenting on how the person I quoted used incorrect reasoning to determine the market share of the western markets.
You can go around and shout and shake your stick as much as you want, but certainty is a poor substitute for rightness. All I've said is my opinion and that's all you've done. Yet you CONSTANTLY go around making a point out of trying to turn opinion into fact.
By your logic in the numbers game then WoW is of lower quality of a game compared to Maple Story, a game that boasts over 20 million subscribers.
If you think that going around comparing the quality of a game that's had 5 years of post release development vs one with one then you are sorely mistaken. At release WoW was in a similiar condition of recent MMO releases. This is fact, but it's one that cannot be currently proved because that version of the game doesn't exist anymore.
Bllizard has figured out a successful formula for creating content. This formula can be copied, but keep in mind that Blizzard didn't come up with it until the middle of BC. After they had already established a stable client and server code, which they did not have at release. The only reason why WoW got away with being in such a state is because at the time of release MMO's were, as an entire industry, niche. People so easily forget that MMO's did not come to prominence until around the time BC came out.
This is largely credit to Blizzard, something I'm not going to dispute. I will, however, dispute whether or not this is an entirely good thing. What it has done is create jerk-offs who do not entirely understand the industry. So they blindly defend and follow WoW without knowing the underlying structure upon which they tread.
What it has also done is create a notice in the gaming world that MMO's can be extremely profitable to the point of being able to outshine any other form of game. This has caused the gaming industries leaders to be willing to throw money into their development. However, where this money is allocated is largely directed in the vein of trying to re-create the success that WoW currently enjoys. This happens in the course of development rather than at the outset. This is evident by merely reading the original intentions of developers versus the end product.
The good in WoW: This is the stuff that every single MMO must and should now live up to.
Smooth, organic combat that is intuitive.
Highly polished content.
Highly polished client that usually has few bugs or other issues.
The bad in WoW: These are the things that being repeated through a lack of understanding, but shouldn't.
A destructive community that is encouraged and rewarded for rejecting the company of others.
An atmosphere that breeds low-ends by easily handing gear and 'achievements' to people.
A complete lack of any sense of a world. Not in the escapist sense, but in the pure sense of fiction. I felt more at role while playing WC3 than I ever have while playing WoW. Meaning my character seemed as if in an actual world setting. This is a major problem trying to create an mmo where your character is a great hero. Any lore you try to create is immediately corrupted by the fact that every single other player character you see is in the exact same position. I imagine this is one reason why the need to attune to raids was done away with.
There are many reasons why WoW should be studied when developing an mmo. However, there are just as many if not more things to NOT study.
It's 596 realms, not counting the eastern part (4.2 M playing there in the first week of relaunch China). Because there ARE servers outside of NA/EU you know ....
So What stupid remark.
It is NOT because Blizzard standards can't be met, that this "industry" for what it is really "worth" should be "protected'.
I already gave MUCH too MUCH money on the duds in MMO land.
It is time quality reigns and not the pissing on the ONE and only company that can come up with real value for money in gaming options.
Blizzard raised the bar (and it does this constantly btw) and the others simply can't give ANY decent alternative to play for.
Hence the market share of a yearly 1.2 billion dollars revenu.
The rest have the peanuts. AS SHOULD BE, if they can't keep up with them.
And you continue to prove just how much of a moron you are. You're the Glen Beck of mmorpg.com.
I was commenting on how the person I quoted used incorrect reasoning to determine the market share of the western markets.
You can go around and shout and shake your stick as much as you want, but certainty is a poor substitute for rightness. All I've said is my opinion and that's all you've done. Yet you CONSTANTLY go around making a point out of trying to turn opinion into fact.
By your logic in the numbers game then WoW is of lower quality of a game compared to Maple Story, a game that boasts over 20 million subscribers.
If you think that going around comparing the quality of a game that's had 5 years of post release development vs one with one then you are sorely mistaken. At release WoW was in a similiar condition of recent MMO releases. This is fact, but it's one that cannot be currently proved because that version of the game doesn't exist anymore.
Bllizard has figured out a successful formula for creating content. This formula can be copied, but keep in mind that Blizzard didn't come up with it until the middle of BC. After they had already established a stable client and server code, which they did not have at release. The only reason why WoW got away with being in such a state is because at the time of release MMO's were, as an entire industry, niche. People so easily forget that MMO's did not come to prominence until around the time BC came out.
This is largely credit to Blizzard, something I'm not going to dispute. I will, however, dispute whether or not this is an entirely good thing. What it has done is create jerk-offs who do not entirely understand the industry. So they blindly defend and follow WoW without knowing the underlying structure upon which they tread.
What it has also done is create a notice in the gaming world that MMO's can be extremely profitable to the point of being able to outshine any other form of game. This has caused the gaming industries leaders to be willing to throw money into their development. However, where this money is allocated is largely directed in the vein of trying to re-create the success that WoW currently enjoys. This happens in the course of development rather than at the outset. This is evident by merely reading the original intentions of developers versus the end product.
The good in WoW: This is the stuff that every single MMO must and should now live up to.
Smooth, organic combat that is intuitive.
Highly polished content.
Highly polished client that usually has few bugs or other issues.
The bad in WoW: These are the things that being repeated through a lack of understanding, but shouldn't.
A destructive community that is encouraged and rewarded for rejecting the company of others.
An atmosphere that breeds low-ends by easily handing gear and 'achievements' to people.
A complete lack of any sense of a world. Not in the escapist sense, but in the pure sense of fiction. I felt more at role while playing WC3 than I ever have while playing WoW. Meaning my character seemed as if in an actual world setting. This is a major problem trying to create an mmo where your character is a great hero. Any lore you try to create is immediately corrupted by the fact that every single other player character you see is in the exact same position. I imagine this is one reason why the need to attune to raids was done away with.
There are many reasons why WoW should be studied when developing an mmo. However, there are just as many if not more things to NOT study.
I disagree with a few of your WoW negatives. Seems like the WoW hater party line comments that somehow the WoW community is worse than any other mmorpg community. I have found idiots, immature spammers, and griefers in every mmorpg I've played in the last decade. The only difference in WoW is that it has so many more gamers than any other mmorpg atm, that it seems worse because with millions of people, you have a few more bad apples than is the norm. As for the "A destructive community that is encouraged and rewarded for rejecting the company of others" comment, it's overdramatic to say the least. I grouped, raided, and rarely played the game solo. It is a casual mmorpg with solo and group content. And the "an atmosphere that breeds low-ends by easily handing gear and 'achievements' to people" comment just makes you come across as an elitist gamer that feels the need to knock a whole community of gamers because you don't like a game.
As long as gamers continue to create threads and post insulting WoW where you villify everyone that likes the game, you will continue to get flamed and criticized back. If you don't like a game and want to tell us why, fine. Just be prepared to defend yourself when you make negative generalized statements about a whole community of people that, for sooooome reason, may take offense to being called "a destructive community" and "low-end".
Again, you are misunderstanding because you do not see beyond the surface. Maybe you do, but it doesn't seem like it.
The ATMOSPHERE that WoW has created breeds a self-destructive community. This ATMOSPHERE has been replicated through copying material from WoW. The material in question is the ease of which an individual can 'accomplish' without actually accomplishing anything. The atmosphere I'm talking about is that, by it's very nature, a community is this vestigial thing. WoW is a world of individuals being rewarded for denying those around them. This is a problem, a real problem.
Did I say that the community in WoW was any worse than any other mmo? No. If anything I said that the problems that create these communities stem from WoW, but that doesn't mean that the community itself is any better or worse - just the original source.
Similarly, by so easily handing things to people you do create a massive disease of complacency. People don't feel the need to improve because there is no reason to. Difficulty to obtain something does NOT need to equate to the time it takes to get it and in fact, strictly speaking, does not. Of course there are system-specific (code) restrictions on just how much player skill you can involve in difficulty. There is a strict limit on just how good a person can be within that system. You can learn to time attacks, plan movements and potions only to a point. This isn't like Soul Caliber or King of Fighters or some such where the system-limited cap on just how good a player can be is extremely high.
However, there is still quite a lot that can be done. The only reason why it isn't is because whenever Blizzard has tried people have rejected it. This is PRIMARILY their own fault by creating this atmosphere of complacency in the first place. People have gotten so used to not having to improve to 'achieve' that when content is introduced that would force them to there is a massive public outcry.
PS - This is why I quit WoW and will never return. I used to play a rogue and I prided myself on having a strong desire to improve in both pve and pvp. I never had the desire to be a top pvp'er, though to be honest I could have been if I had bothered to grind through to face like-minded people. In pve rogues had (and I believe still have) to time rotations perfectly and be able to adapt to your environment very quickly. This became a problem for me because even though I constantly topped out dps charts throughout BT I had to struggle to do so. And close behind (within .01% usually) would be a lock who just facerolled their keyboard. I continued into WotLk, but then with that insane paladin buff...well, most of you know the end of this story. There became little point to trying to improve when there were classes that could use three buttons and just destroy everything.
Hahaha, you're funny.
WoW could have 20 million subs worldwide and it still wouldn't change the fact that I no longer find the game enjoyable.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
(1a)-(1b) Wow was not in the same conditions as other mmos at its release. That is the common misconception that so many people repeat here as if it was fact. Did wow have performance issues? Yes. Were people still waiting in line for hours to get into a game? People were waiting to get into the game, because it was designed with a mentality of "Is this fun". Wow delivered something that offered a fresh experience in a genre that was pretty stale. It delivered fun right out of the box and smooth gameplay. The performance issues were a direct result of the well designed gameply wow that caused massive demand that overwhemled the game servers.
Just to show how incorrect you are, EQ2 released within 2 weeks of wow. If wow was in the same shape as any other mmo then why did eq2 bomb? Yes it did bomb, because they were merging servers within the first year of operation and those servers were once full. Two big name, big budget, big advertising mmos released in the same month. One could not add game servers fast enough and one lost roughly half of its paying subscribers in the first year.
(2) Honestly I think you are displaying a great deal of misinformation in your posts and it is not the best idea for you to criticize people for their ignorance.
(3) You could not be any further from the truth. Ultima Online started the ball rolling on how successful mmos could be. If you don't agree with that then you cannot get past the fact that Everquest was all the buzz in the industry for huge success. That is when you started seeing companies creating projects that cost 10-20-30-40-50 million dollars to produce, including wow. Just think about that for a second. Wow was already in competition with huge budget projects that were in the works before its release. Wow could not start something that was already happening when it released. All you are pointing out is the avalache(entire genre) gaining more momentum, not the point where it started out a snowball (UO/EQ).
(4) Again Everquest had a horrible community in a game that forced grouping. I think you don't understand that there will be people, no matter what game they play, that are going to be assholes. That is a result of the interwebs, not wows "easy" gameplay.
(5) Why is it that almost everytime someone complains about the wow community they follow it up with some sort of comments that offhandedly make them out to be mmo aristocracy. Low-ends? Why not just call the population of wow lesser gamers like everyone else who has a pale view of the game ? Wow players are still gamers just like everyone else on this site. I highly doubt any of them would struggle in whatever you view as a "high-end" player game. Odds are those games are not as popular or you think they are hard due to some ridiculously nauseating time sinks, archaic gameplay or just aweful performance. Time as a barrier to completing goals is not a factor of difficulty and it does not take skill to spend time online repeating trivial tasks. That is where many people misunderstand "hard" in mmos.
Guess we are due yet another ridiculous post about wow numbers.
Blizzard has share holders, if they are lying, there in big trouble.
They are not lying, deal with its popularity.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Now now Metal...people have to come here to justify why they do not like WoW and gain acceptance from others about their radical views...you know...you are not cool if you like the "in" thing.
Added some stuff you left out. Hope you don't mind.
/endsarcasm
No one is denying WoW's success. Sit down and take a valium fanboi. I think I just heard your arena queue, better alt-tab back!
/okliedaboutendsarcasm
NEWS FLASH! PAYING THE SUB IN F2P = NO DIFFERENCE THAN P2P GAMES!
Why the hell can't the whiners comprehend this?