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I like everything about this game; except the combat.
Locithon
Member UncommonPosts: 45
I've tried getting into EQII about 4 or 5 times now and I can never get past lvl 20ish. The combat system is just so irritating that I cannot continue; which is a shame because other aspects of the game are great...graphics, customization, crafting, community, dungeons, hertiage quests, guild options.... I could go on and on. Unfortunately at least 80% of your game time is spent fighting mobs. There are simply too many abilities to use and combine that with no GCD and you have yourself a huge spamfest. Almost none of the abilites are situational so you end up using almost 3 bars worth of skills in a single encounter, it just gets tiresome after a while. I don't find this type of gameplay difficult at all... it just bores the hell out of me.
Comments
Sorry it doesn't work out for you.
Been around EQ2 since its friends and family beta and this is just never something that would land of my list of dislikes. Then again I have yet to use 3 bars worth of skills on any class in the game....
Sometimes a game just isn't for you...
I hear what you saying.
When I was playing EQ2 my Guardian had to use 12-15 abilities in sequence just to keep a good aggro.
In WoW what I had to do with my Pally was to spam Consecration and put on the aggro buff, with my Guardian I had to spam 6 different taunt skills, followed by 10 different damage abilities in order to keep my DPS to a decent level (because the Taunt Skills alone weren't anywhere good enough to keep aggro).
I am not saying to over-simplify the combat, but sometimes the amount of skills can be a bit overwhelming.
And for the records I used 6 bars when I was Raid Tanking (not all for skills, some macros too)
6 bars? You're stupid. I raid tanked with a Guardian, in fact that was my max lvl character and never had 6 bars of skills. You even claiming this is almost laughable. Go Troll somewhere else.
To the OP. Bottom line, the game isn't for you.
"Life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% of how you react to it."
You dont have to use ALL your skills to kill a mob, when I solo with my coercer, i just root mobs, use the stuns alot and cast my short cooldown nuke - hemorrhage,maybe through a stifle if the mob is mean.
In groups I just run around following the tank and make sure the group has power regen by casting mana flows, and then spam my aoes.
In boss fights, and especially in raid boss fights, that's when I use my 'rotation' for maximum dps, dots, debuffs that need to be on the mob, and power regens so yea that's probably when I use most of my spells in succession.
The more you level up, the more your spells or combat arts become really powerfull and by the time you cast 3-4 of them the mobs are dead, so just wait it out abit.
It's important to remember that a very large percentage of video game players are small children and/or drug addicts. It's as if ADD is an airborne virus nowadays!
Seriously though, it doesn't bother me in the slightest that game designers spend most of their time and money supporting that segment of the market. Those customers are by far the easiest to please, and lord knows they love clicking them buttons!
What bothers me is that publishers seem to forget there are computer game players out there who AREN'T braindead. Especially when you're talking specifically about PC games, and even more especially when you're talking about MMORPG's -- where the number of potential costomers who have their own credit card is a significant factor.
It made absolutely perfect sense for Blizzard to incorporate a combat system that can be easily mastered by six-year-old children. They have the best engine, and there was no reason to not make it accessible to everyone. But for anyone who tries to compete with that juggernaut, it's foolish to copy the gameplay. They need to SEGMENT the market. There are a number of MMORPG's specifically targeted to the preschool market, and that's great. But I haven't seen any that seem geared to players who may be looking for a more deliberative, or possibly even strategic, combaty system.
I can't believe there aren't a big chunk of people waiting to shell out money for something like that.
I feel exactly the same way as the OP. I love everything about this game. Except the combat.
There are a few issues I have with it. The last time I played was about 6 months ago.
1. There are a ridiculous amount of buffs. 1.7% to attack speed/2.3% to out of combat health regen/7.9% in combat movement buff/4% cast speed buff/9% int buff... do this about 40 times (often more), and you get the picture. In a raid environment, it was just silly and pointless. Often times a class will have 2 buffs that are very similar that should just be combined to make one buff. While I do understand there can be a role for buffs in an MMO, this game overdid it by far.
2. Action bar skills are overly similar. Why have 4 buttons to press in a row that do instant direct melee damage? It doesn't make any sense and, like the OP mentioned, causes more of a spamfest that requires zero strategy. When I play, I get the feeling that they focused on getting as many skills as they could in the classes instead of focusing on the strategy of the class itself. I suppose it is exactly because of their lack of want for a global cooldown that this issue exists. But at some point a long time ago, I think they really could have made combat a lot better overall by making it more strategic and less spammy.
3. Classes feel very similar to each other overall. Sure there are a lot of classes, but many of the classes are so similar. I think that there is a bit too much homogenization overall in this game when it comes to the classes. It feels like there are maybe 8 or so classes thrown into 24 categories.
It's crazy because this game has a great community, quest system, graphics, world, lore, guild system and crafting system along with some intangibles that are hard to describe that just make the game feel a certain way. It has it's own feel. It's own style. I just wish that combat was more of a focus by the developers. Or maybe a new strategy is needed by the developers.
I've played EQ2 on and off for soon 3 years and I know what you're saying. I don't get why you have several abilites that does instant damage, just with a different name.
If you roll a ranged class you will find the combat gets more interesting, I love the ranger class. Wizards are fun too but got a little too boring after spamming the same abilities over and over
6 bars? You're stupid. I raid tanked with a Guardian, in fact that was my max lvl character and never had 6 bars of skills. You even claiming this is almost laughable. Go Troll somewhere else.
To the OP. Bottom line, the game isn't for you.
Watch your mouth bro, if you are not able to hold a civil debate GTFO.
I tanked with my Guardian for 4 years for a raiding guild, so you can take your shit advice and give it to whoever cares.
I guess you are one of those noobs that came with RoK who think that tanking in a dungeon is the same as tanking in a Raid.
Also I said that not all the bars were dedicated to skills (put some glasses on mate), part of them were for macros but still compared to a WoW tank, the Guardian used many more skills in order to keep the aggro, to be precise 2 full bars to keep aggro (taunts+damage) plus other 2 bars for buffs (some of them used often, others used in emergency circumstances).
All the Skills in EQ2 actually should be used, unlike WoW where the usual single bar is enough, even in raids.
Lastly although you don't have to use all the skills, in EQ2 it is reccommended in order to take full advantage of your class, particularly if you want to be competitive in a raid environment.
And the skills are quite a lot, so for casual players they might be a bit overwhelming at times.
I don't know if things changed the last 2 years since I left, maybe they did........after all I left because the game was getting way too casual, catering for people who wants to play with a single bar of skills.
So it might be possible that now, you do not have to use all the skill in order to be competitive, in which case google the best skill configuration for your class, exactly like you'd do in WoW.
Have fun.
Yea but this game is not wow, and there are people who enjoy putting the effort to make their toons work, instead of raiding on a 3 button spam like that other game.
Different games for different tastes, why should all games be like that one?
this is actually why i quit as well. i like the fact that there are alot of "options" (spells that do the same thing but have different cooldown timers) to keep combat fast-paced, but at the same time, for me at least, it became overwhelming past lvl 30 when my warlock had 2 bars of JUST direct damage spells of different cool-down duration and damage. to each his own.
Agree.
I disagree with the post about the abilities being arbitrary. If you have ever raided in more than one type of situation, you would find them useful. It is less arcade-ish than other games, and more complicated. It tends to keep away some people looking for an easy game. I like it complicated and full of options.
I know this may sound cold, but this also tends to keep some great mature people in the game, and pushes less able, patient, and mature people, to play something else. It's almost like this is the main room at an adult party, and a certain other game, I won't mention, is the kids play room to keep them entertained with toys while the adults have fun.
"...less arcade-ish than other games..."? Sorry, but EQ2 struck me as very arcade-ish with their redundant abilities and whack-a-mole combat and that silly pop-up wheel that made no sense at all. When a warrior lands a crit and sets off a group heal, how is that any different than hitting the buzzer on a pinball table? Totally arcade-ish, IMO.
The OP is right; EQ2 failed in the combat realm (and too many redundant classes, too), and I think that is part of what knocked it down a notch or two.
They designed the game for kids and non-gamers, trying to bring in a bigger crowd, I suppose. They missed.
However, we can hope they get it right in "Everquest Next" which is rumored to come out at end of 2010. Gosh, I sure hope so; it's time for a new front line MMO.
To the Thread-starter: I don't get this, I'm a level 67 troubadour and I don't even have two bars of abilities during a fight. Where the heck do you manage to have 6 bars or let alone 3??? As far as I know no class has much more (I'm running a wiki with the abilities and they have recently revamped in naming so I had to update my pages - I've a good overview so I would say).
Did you not realize that the the new abilities replace each other (to make that easier to realize the recent names streamlining was done)?!?
And most of my abilities are situational (if I'm behind or next to my target, if I'm using heroes chances or someone else and what step, if it is a DoT or just some DD, debuff or whatever) but they are rarely reactive to my targets abiltities - that is true. If you prefer the later one there are other games for you with less few abilties that are more reactive, but due to the network demands that has those games offer much less deepness apart from combat of course. So one has to choose here what game type to pick. *shrug*
I'd recommend DAoC or AoC to you than.
Edit: What is a "GCD" by the way?
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
Me , I enjoy the combat in EQ2 because spamming Fireball over and over and over again got borning fast.
Plus if you are just spamming your combat/spells your DPS will show it.
The good players don't just spam.... they take timing, auto attack, weapon delay, haste, etc, etc in to count to maximize their over all DPS.
This kind of attention to detail helps being me into the game rather then just clicking 2 to 3 hotkeys over and over again.
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GCD = Global Cool Down, a WoW term. It's pretty much a timer on all your abilities/spells after you use one. It's to prevent people with no patience to spam buttons. In EQ2 there are many buttons instead to confuse people, thus artificially creating this GCD while they wonder why there are so many buttons.
Eq2 best game out by far, takes skill to actually play this game. Only down fall is SoE is the Publisher, anyone and everyone who complains gets things changed. Like the simple fact of Lvl lockers are pwning my face while im lvling up, its no fair..... So now their is no lvl locking in pvp, so all the time and effort u put into geting the best gear for ur toon, is wasted and u must eventually lvl.
I agree with OP. If combat was fun and not slow and pushing 10 buttons per fight I think I would play this game for more than one month at a time. Add to that the very annoying skill upgrades you have to buy every 10 levels to keep those skills at, at the very least, average efficiency, which makes no sense to me, if I'm going to outlevel the skills in one sitting anyway(at least at earlier levels).
Do I really have to buy adepts/masters for that many skills through all 80 levels? Turn off right there. On top of that, gear level - I find this stupid as well, why does a level 10 belt with +10 int not equal a level 20 belt with +10 int? Too me the stat would seem to be more important, or should be then the arbitrary item level.
Anyway...I like EQ2 but the combat and skills need an overhaul. Guess that won't happen, so I'm hoping EQ next will address this.
The problem for me is the classes are all bland and boring with too many that are just two sides of the same coin. They feel watered down and just end up boring to play. On top of that the combat just feels wonky and really slow where if you play WoW it nails the combat so well that you just can't get into another game.
Well this was an interesting thread, I do not know if most of the people realize that combat in EQ2 is faster than in EQ1 but it retains some of the same features, that is that you have several skills that are doing damage, but some of them are better in certain situations or against certain mobs. The system is at least supposed to reward those people who study their class and tries to learn how it works and how to act in certain sitiations. Is it perfect ...
No
But this thread at least proves that it is still more hardcore than most the stuff out there (but has it become easier, oh yes, does it retain complicated features made obsolete by changing other parts of the game, oh yes). But it is still the game for the person that looks for something a bit more hardcore and a bit more complicated than WoW. And did I say more mature players (at least in general).
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
I think that eq2 combat and general gameplay is very unfriendly to the average wow population that try it out, because of its subscription size and combat mechanics.
In wow you can be a douchebag all you want and you can cruise control to your gear upgrades, but in most eq2 servers if you develop a bad rep, it's very hard to do group content.
On gameplay mechanics, the classes in eq2 are very inter-dependant, magic users need brigands for their dispatch debuff, scouts love their bard/enchanter buffs, tanks work better with hate transfers, etc.
So even though it has become more solo friendly, the game still retains some 'old-school' inter-dependence of classes, that most 'fast-action' wow-ers find aggravating.
Peace.
I agree with the OP... EQ2 combat is probably one of the games weakest points.
EQ2 combat comes down to pushing buttons as soon as the global refresh clears. There is a bit more too it like doing the right order to do debufs first. Maybe coordinating with group members to let them know when you debuf something. EQ2 does have a lot of class interdependancies. For soloing though eq2 combat is rather boring.
Wow combat is quite a bit better. Most combat has internal systems that make soloing a bit more fun. However it doesn't have nearly the class interdependance that eq2 has. Wow combat appears to be primarily oriented on solo play. Not that there aren't some things classes do to help each other it just isn't similar to eq2.
Lotr combat is even better in some ways although it is slower. LoTR combat is more thoughtful from what I see. Group combat also seems to work pretty well. I'd say that from a thinking and grouping point LoTR combat is even better. However the pacing of it is kinda slow which might turn people off.
Vanguard combat is in my opinion the best. Soloing you have a mechanic where you have choices about how to play out your combat. It uses more of the energy management wow and various chains and reactive abilities that make paying attention to combat a must and also tends to mix things up more so you don't do the same thing every time. For grouping it has some interdependancies and the weakness system. All in all Vanguard combat is the best.
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Ethion
At level 20 you dont have 3 rows of spells.. This game is so much more complex than wow or aion and after the NGE they wont change it.. Theres people in this game who think its way too simplistic and easy.. I think its a nice system that keeps the player hitting buttons and timing spells/abilities to be sufficiently entertained while playing. For some people Eq2 is too much to handle.. for those people theres always WoW and Aion..
Yep, that's it. We gamers just can't handle the extreme difficulty of spamming 10-12 different hotkeys for every mob. There is nothing difficult or tactical about having extra abilities to spam, The fluid and timing of EQ2's combat just doesn't feel right, and I suspect most MMO gamers would agree with that since EQ2's subs can't get above 300k. Because if EQ2 had great combat there would be no reason to play WoW or any other MMO instead.
I have to say I love Vanguard combat. It's a bit slow but what I like about it is that I have skills that I can utilize which don't always fall in the generic skill list.
I was once attacked by 3 mobs. I pretty much thought I was going to die (Dread Knight) and running away wasn't going to help me, so I used every skill I possibly could that gave me a fraction of health or essentially anything that could possibly help me survive. Was a pretty long fight but I actually came out with a sliver of health and victorious.
Love that game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo