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is this much different to city of heroes ?
googajoob7
Member Posts: 866
i tried the the two day free trial and while thats not enough time to form a real opinion i did like some of what i saw but it reminded me a lot of city of heroes but without the apect of being able to play a villain or the player generated content . so what i would like to ask is how does it compare with CoH ?
Comments
Your game experience is far more valuable than anyone's opinion and I think the fact you are asking the question is the most significant factor.
imo there is nothing new or original in CO, but then there's nothing really bad or missing either, the combat system is different rather than better or worse, the approach to the theme is the most dissapointing aspect in CO for me - I dont feel they care and everything is too generic and lacking in atmosphere as a result, there's not much player involvement in CoH but there's absolutely zero in CO and every character is forced along the same solitary 'on rails' journey. The avatar creator is second to none in CO, however so it depends what you want from the experience.
Overall there are differences with CoH but there's no real evidence of any progress in areas that matter and many of the same faults are shared, where CO improves one area they inexplicably always find a new or additional problem in another. Experience doesn't seem to have been a factor in the games design, which is a shame because this was an awesome oppertunity for any studio to build on previous success.
Going to keep this simple (sorry the post got long winded) -
- CoH does not grant XP for PVP from what I recall. Champs does. So you see more pve'ers trying out pvp in that game. (+)
- CoH has excellent Looking for Group tools. This is absent from CO (-)
- CoH has a restrictive Class system if you ask me. Champs is totally freeform (+)
- CoH has excellent system that promotes grouping. I've had characters that leveled all the way via groups. Champs on the other hand, appears to be a solo MMO through and through. They finally added the ability to share quests but it is NOT 100% Quest XP like CoH was. I dont recall this issue ever in CoH. Ever since Issue 4-5 I recall we enjoyed great group xp. (-)
- CoH has a true Villain side. Champs lacks that depth (-)
- CoH has a much better combat system all the way if you ask me. You could 'queue' your next attack. You could detoggle a Tank's defenses. You had to toggle/detoggle things and that added depth. You could overlap buffs. It was awesome and this game is missing all that. WTF Cryptic (-)
- CoH had much better travel powers (my opinion). Superjump did not kill you with its use. In CO, Superjump will take huge chunks away from your life. They put you into a falling state all the time. It's plain retarded. Also, in CoH you could stack travel powers. superjump + superspeed was incredible and felt fluid. Albeit, unbeatable combo. But it was fun. The devs never got this so Champs lacks travel power stacking.... (-)
- PVP in CoH pre-I13 was great fun. Don't know bout now. But pre-I13 PVP with Villains vs Heroes was more fun. But I'd say they both equally blow in this department. Even at its height, CoH PVP was an afterthought as well.... But at least it had lots of features like superbases, siren's call, warburg, recluse victory, etc. CO is missing all that. They really just took the Arenas and brought those back. So everyone just deathmatches. But I didnt do Zombie Apoc (=)
- Champs community seems much worse too me. Lots of people don't want to group up. Hard to believe CoH and Champs was made by same dev. The pvpers are the most whiney bunch (Excluding WoW) that I've ever seen. They are always asking for nerfs with plain disregard to the consequences to PVE. It's interesting though seeing how a young MMO with fairly exciting powers sink further and further down due to the small, vocal minority on the forums. In CoH, us pvpers didnt ask for nerfs that would gimp people in PVE. But since Champs allows pvpers to xp w/o needing PVP, you see a bunch of retards lobbying for nerfs that would decimate PVE. In CoH, much less of an issue because you got no xp from PVE if you follow. (* ask me later if you want more details and links to official forum posts for examples) (-)
- CO has the Nemesis system as you know which was fairly decent (+)
- Melee is all kinds of useless in Champs. Just my opinion. Ranged players can grab the same defenses and they can also go Con/STR if they wish (I know one of my ranged/melee hybrids around 20ish was this build). Mobs do more dmg upclose so being melee is just punishment too me. Worst, all the time ranged players will knock mobs all over the place, etc. Unlike CoH, Melee cannot queue up their next attack. It's retarded. You gotta keep the mobs in range to connect. My Melee had a hard time with groups. Unlike most any other MMO, Melee cannot queue their attacks. The target must remain within 7 yards range in order for the attack to connect. Worse, powers like Defiance (your primary defense with Might) require you to be close and have aggro. But the mobs are too busy getting knocked around by other ranged teammates that spam Force explosion and such. So I saw my DPS shoot down on teams as well..... Guess you can chalk up half of this to my teammates being nooblets.... (-)
- Grouping just took a serious nose dive in Champs. Groupmates cannot earn the same XP unless they have the same quest. So you feel kinda bad asking people to help you with missions they do not have. I'ts like they are performing a pure charity service due to the low mob XP people earn. Now they added Crossover missions but they still don;'t grant 100% quest XP. Really lame. At least in other MMO like WoW I coulda sworn we earned decent xp for killing mobs. But these new MMOs like Champs and Spellborn decided to nerf mob xp which makes grouping go to shits. (-)
Anyway, I still recommend a try if you are gunho for a superhero MMO. But just dont go in with high expectations. It's unfortunate you only had 2 days to play. You really dont get a good feel for the game til L20+ I'd say. Maybe around L25 is where you want to be before you can evaluate it
I still hope the MMO does well since its at least a Classless MMO with a 1 server architecture. So support the small bit of innovation I'd say. But dont expect any innovation whatsoever in the PVE department. They just sort of copy/pasted some elements that worked in other MMOs and brought them here.
I'd say the lower levels (1-15ish) are a blast to play and you can at least experience Canada or Desert. But after you exhaust those the rest of the game is a linear path to 40 with excact same stories each replay. CoH on other hand was much more fun to make alts cause there was so much different quests and Grouping was the BEST in any MMO. Onpar with Guild wars prophecies campaign I'd say!
patchday pretty much got it right thier.coh has some power sets co does not .class sytem doesnt bother me in cox nor does the class less sytem impress me in co.other than the bugs ,server problems , log in problems patchday covered it all.
great review imho.co is not cox2 no more than dco is cox3.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant (1933)
I played CoH for a number of years and I'm currently a lifetimer to CO, so while I agree with most of the points from above I'd jsut like to add 2 cents.
CoH and CoX are rather distant cousins, and IMO CO is what CoH should have been.
You have stats, you have gear, you have the ability to honestly pick and choose any of the powers. The big thing though is while having this freeform the game is rather balanced for the msot part. As someone stated Melee has a bit of a downside compaired to ranged... but if your taking nothing but melee your doing it wrong. What he failed to say was that there is knockto powers to drag those opponents to you, leaping powers to lunge at that target, etc. If your expecting that group of enemies to stay next to you whiel you pummel them all in the face, then your sadlt mistaken because this AI will actually care about it's self preservation.
I personally play 3 melee characters and have no issues. One of with is a Offensive glasscannon Axe Wielder, yes he dies a bit, but he also tears through mobs faster then any ranged build could hope.
Wall of text 2 cents
... gamer forever
Yeah you can grab powers like Lunge, mighty leap, Lariat, etc. Still, if you grab the Melee energy builder you must be within 7 range of the target. So you'll find yourself having to take some sort of hold or root so you can keep your victim still to charge and long attack like Haymaker.
It just feels awkard and clunky because you are rooted while you do this.
And worse, mobs do a lot more dmg while you're upclose like I mentioned before. But wait- ranged players can have the same defenses a Melee has. I know my Melee once I'm done respeccing him into ranged he will still have Con/Str as his primary stats. So he'll be able to tank just as much as any tank while dissing out ranged attacks.
Even better, when he does his chargeup attacks his range with be 100 yards. So I dont have to waste time using a hold or root or snare. I can just laydown the smackdown
Melee are just sort of cool concept wise but are not balanced with Range at all. The Devs didnt really give them any cool bonuses for having to fight close ranged. However, the devs still believe Melee have an advantage because they can 'in theory' build energy faster than ranged. But that's not practical because targets move around all the time. And by the time you get a hold going, a ranged player will have destroyed all the mobs.
Its really bad for melee on teams. They really dont ever come into their own unless the team is fighting a supervillain that can last long enough for a melee to do something
CoH Melee vs CO Melee
In CoH they had a class system so it goes without saying you had 100% knockup/knockdown protection even as a newbie. Also, you had 100% hold protection. all this assuming you dont get detoggled
Also, once you initiated an attack within range of a mob, even if it got out of range, you'd still nail it.
This is not the case in CO. The mob must remain in range the entire duration of the attack.
CO Melee is inferior to CoX Melee in everyway. I can understand the devs logic on one hand. Since they went classless, they had to make it so you need to put your points into a stat to gain Knockdown/Hold protection. So melee should be stating STR. Still, I've seen L40 Melee complain they still get bounced around. My Melee isnt L40 right now so I cant say. But in CoH, you had 100% knockdown protection. So in pvp, you did not worry bout someone knocking you around. My Melee in CO around L20 got knocked back chained
Anyway Melee are not horrible to play or anything. I just dont think they have anything on the true Melees we had in CoX games.
I would like to know too. Been thinking of moving on to CoH since I like the concept of playing a superhero game instead of the usual fantasy style.
Any feedback will be very much appreciated.
1. pretty much. it does not have arm or leg acesories but has way better capes .its difrent but has imho better emblems ,you have sheilds , war hammers. an wolvireine claws an to others.so what it lacks it makes up for an you can make a more human looking toon easyer.
2.group play is more the focus sure. but one can solo to 50 an do tons of badges, misons all but a few that require a group ,besides task forces wich require a group,an they tell you ahead of time.depending on my health in rl ,i solo an have a blast doing it.group when im healthy or with a super group memeber.
i can have pnumonia/sinus infection an still play cox an have fun.few games i play i can do that
3. much i mean much better than co. very rare are servers down for any thing other than a patch.
4. the classes help make the grouping so well balanced as well as the power balanced. for while i thought willpower was overpowered then today faced some rad bots an found energy is a weekness to willpower.you can have a few power sets an one shot minions but mostly its rare you can an theirs timers an endurace to contend with its not like co where you can build one power an say use haymaker over an over. you will have to use other power attacks .
it may take you a few tries to learn the system .or makeing the systme work for your build.
5. cox is more adult players some young ones but mostly adult players .find out the server you like an check the offical forums for that server to see what chat channels an super groups are looking for people.i play on protector an virtue an im in 5 chat groups which some end up being larger family like guilds in a way.some are more adult in language than others to.
hope this helps some .its got pretty good end game with task forces an the recipe enhancement cyctem .has the rune set feel from diablo 2 sorta.pvp is kinda meh they mesed with it to much i think. after going rouge they may fix it to be a bit better i hope.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant (1933)
Ok, thanks for the feedback on CoH. I think I'm gonna go check the shops around town for it. Sigh, where I am, it's tough to find the game. I literally have to run around every shop in town to look for it.
Thanks.