one of the best articles to date, well wrote. I fully agree as long as it isn't "required" to play then item malls are all good i really can careless. But on the same note, at least with the Asian Item Mall games, you are able to gain the items in the game that are in the malls in some way. It seems the ones out of america are not like that. Which could be some reason for the animosity.
Originally posted by Stradden You may not agree with me, and my philosophy. That's your right. But to take what I said so wildly out of context and run me down personally for having a differing opinion is... Well, silly. But, carry on. you seem to be having a good time, don't let me stop you.
No, you're not a gamer - you're an industry insider. You know who butters your bread, and it's not us.
This IS the time to protest this move. As loudly as possible. There IS a wolf, and it's foolish to wait for sheep to go missing to sound the alarm. Once that wolf starts feeding, he's not going away.
People protested about Game Guard in Aion - and it was de-activated for NA launch.
People protested about Champions Online's cash shop, and I am convinced that it made Cryptic very cautious about what they put in there.
This is one of the most moronic things I have ever read on these forums...
OF COURSE he is a gamer. No one gets into this industry without having a genuine interest in gaming. Jon has repeatedly shown his interest in MMO gaming and the fact that he is a player himself. And as for your assertion that we do not butter his bread as you like to say, that is complete garbage. After all, who butters the bread of any member of the gaming industry if it is not, in fact, the gamers. No one in the industry would have a job if it wasn't for us...
If you have a point you feel compelled to make, don't you think it is better to engage in meaningful debate rather than make personal attacks?
I think that people complaining about this are kinda stupid. Why would you bitch about the price of something that does nothing, and isn't needed for anything? If someone wants to pay for the thing, fine. If not... just as good. When Blizzard begins to sell things you need in that shop, THEN complain. I saw someone say they quit playing WoW after ten years over this. I can only laugh at the concept that this one thing was enough to make them finally quit... though I have a good feeling they were just talking crap. The people who seemed filled with rage over it were also kinda funny, as online gaming in general shouldn't be that important to cause that level of rage in the first place, much less over a colorful bit of useless crap they apparently don't even plan on paying for. What strikes me the most about this all is that it seems like people are complaining because perhaps they are the type of players who has to have every little thing and if they don't, then they can't enjoy the game... even if the things they have are totally useless for anything but showing off. It reminds me of when I used to play that game myself and would see people decked out to the gills in top of the line armor.... just standing around doing nothing while lesser players ooohed and aaahed over their leet gear. :-
Why don't you read the thread so you understand the reasons why people are alarmed.
Oh believe me I have..."Alarmed" is WAY too pale a word for some of the reactions I've seen. Hysterical fits it much better. RMT with some gamers is much like the word nuclear is to greenies. It invokes a hysterical knee jerk reaction. Neither group seems capable of a rational/reasoned approach to those subjects. Its all doom and gloom, and the sky is falling nonsense. Can RMT be negative? Of course, in fact I've seen rather glaring examples of such excess. Look at Perfect World as an example. But what Blizzard is doing is far, FAR from that. Hysterics intone...For now... But preemptive hysterics are much like some of the preemptive attacks we've seen over the last 8 years...Little(if any) good comes from it.
Im disgusted that Jon keeps on defending his article and keep flaming thoose of us who thinks this is a terrible move by Blizzard... When the leader of this site is telling everyone who doesnt agree with him to QQ then there is something very wrong going on here.
Its a sad day for MMOs and for mmorpg.com
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Im disgusted that Jon keeps on defending his article and keep flaming thoose of us who thinks this is a terrible move by Blizzard... When the leader of this site is telling everyone who doesnt agree with him to QQ then there is something very wrong going on here. Its a sad day for MMOs and for mmorpg.com
People have no reason to bitch though. They are complaining cause they can not because blizzard did anything wrong. Its a vanity pet shop. It doesn't change the game. It doesn't affect your gameplay. Hell it doesn't even affect anyone who doesn't want to purchase them.
This is one of the most moronic things I have ever read on these forums...
OF COURSE he is a gamer. No one gets into this industry without having a genuine interest in gaming. Jon has repeatedly shown his interest in MMO gaming and the fact that he is a player himself. And as for your assertion that we do not butter his bread as you like to say, that is complete garbage. After all, who butters the bread of any member of the gaming industry if it is not, in fact, the gamers. No one in the industry would have a job if it wasn't for us...
If you have a point you feel compelled to make, don't you think it is better to engage in meaningful debate rather than make personal attacks?
My God man...
Such bullshit.
I can tell you have no clue what you are talking about as I do happen to work in games, and I can tell you that probably a good 1/3 of the people I interact with on a daily basis are not gamers, nor interested in games. They're in it for the money (crazy concept for some). And the ratio of gamers to non-gamers is getting smaller everyday (in my experience).
I will say, yes, it's most likely that this site was started as a fan site dedicated to games out of passion (after all, it was started before MMO's truly hit the big time). Most are. But then these sites gain traffic and credibility with a desirable demographic of consumer, marketing people take notice, deals are struck.
Yes it's true that if it wasn't for gamers, there'd be no bread to butter (good call with the font color btw), marketing dollars are a much more immediate reward. Do you truly believe that the owners of this site would rather wait for the MMO industry to grow and flourish than take a fat check up front to sell a particular product?
Im disgusted that Jon keeps on defending his article and keep flaming thoose of us who thinks this is a terrible move by Blizzard... When the leader of this site is telling everyone who doesnt agree with him to QQ then there is something very wrong going on here. Its a sad day for MMOs and for mmorpg.com
People have no reason to bitch though. They are complaining cause they can not because blizzard did anything wrong. Its a vanity pet shop. It doesn't change the game. It doesn't affect your gameplay. Hell it doesn't even affect anyone who doesn't want to purchase them.
Now to take this to the next level metaphorically speaking. How about instead of protesting health care reform (for those who are against it), you just wait and see if it happens first. After all, it doesn't appear it's gonna affect you personally right? You should just hold on to your opinions until something bad really does happen .
Extreme example perhaps (in scale), but the same principle.
It should have been the other way around. Make a donation to Make a Wish foundation and get a vantity pet in WOW.
The blogger point is totally wrong.He seems to be encouraging the disturbing trend amongst wester MMO who want to rip subscription money along with micro transactions.
Its always a disturbing trend whether its only vanity pets , or only colors to dye armor , or special house gifts.The excuse is oh its just for vanity it does not affect stat or gameplay experience
But it does MMORPG is a social networking rather than just a game.Apart from just questing and PVP peopl spend a lot of time chit chatting and socialising in the game.Here the person who has more bucks can get an edge.
Secondly ,it encourage the MMO companies .
Guild Wars has micro transcation but for its defence it doesnt have subs fee.
1) Pay for extra storage space
2) Pay for extra character slot
3) Pay for new facemodels / makeups
4) PAy for gender change
5) Pay to get all PVP skills unlocked and so one
But these are disturbing used by Many MMO who alos function via subs
Im disgusted that Jon keeps on defending his article and keep flaming thoose of us who thinks this is a terrible move by Blizzard... When the leader of this site is telling everyone who doesnt agree with him to QQ then there is something very wrong going on here. Its a sad day for MMOs and for mmorpg.com
People have no reason to bitch though. They are complaining cause they can not because blizzard did anything wrong. Its a vanity pet shop. It doesn't change the game. It doesn't affect your gameplay. Hell it doesn't even affect anyone who doesn't want to purchase them.
Now to take this to the next level metaphorically speaking. How about instead of protesting health care reform (for those who are against it), you just wait and see if it happens first. After all, it doesn't appear it's gonna affect you personally right? You should just hold on to your opinions until something bad really does happen .
Extreme example perhaps (in scale), but the same principle.
LOL!! "Health care reform"... Have you looked at some of the Sweet Deals for various lobby groups in that? Lord only knows where those clowns think they are going to get the money to pay for that socialist nonsense. But the hysteria involved in that(all sides) is at least about something that might be important. This current issue is totally trivial.
i see no problem with this your not getting any perks or anything of that sort just a vanity pet and if u get the pandern 50% go to the make a wish foundation which is a worthy cause imo. i think this hurts no one n less they start making recpecs and so forth cost irl money i e champions online
Im disgusted that Jon keeps on defending his article and keep flaming thoose of us who thinks this is a terrible move by Blizzard... When the leader of this site is telling everyone who doesnt agree with him to QQ then there is something very wrong going on here. Its a sad day for MMOs and for mmorpg.com
People have no reason to bitch though. They are complaining cause they can not because blizzard did anything wrong. Its a vanity pet shop. It doesn't change the game. It doesn't affect your gameplay. Hell it doesn't even affect anyone who doesn't want to purchase them.
Now to take this to the next level metaphorically speaking. How about instead of protesting health care reform (for those who are against it), you just wait and see if it happens first. After all, it doesn't appear it's gonna affect you personally right? You should just hold on to your opinions until something bad really does happen .
Extreme example perhaps (in scale), but the same principle.
LOL!! "Health care reform"... Have you looked at some of the Sweet Deals for various lobby groups in that? Lord only knows where those clowns think they are going to get the money to pay for that socialist nonsense. But the hysteria involved in that(all sides) is at least about something that might be important. This current issue is totally trivial.
LOL!! You obviously didn't get why I brought it up!
I don't care either way about health care reform as I'm not an American. The reason I used that as an analogy is to show that it's important that people in the free world have a voice, and to criticize people for expressing concern is ludicrous (and I might ad very 'un-American' from what my understanding of what it's supposed to mean to be American). Sure, it's for a game that doesn't actually mean squat in the grand scheme of the world, but as consumer, people need to have a voice. Whether it's expressing fear of a large multinational raping gamers wallets, or some other product or service, consumers need to have the right to be vocal. It's what keeps business honest (at least outwordly) and us, ALL OF US, safe from getting ripped off at every turn.
My opinion? If Blizzard wants to sell pets that don't affect the game to people who want them, or even people who are passionate about whatever charity they attach to said pets, all the power to 'em. Unfortunately, even Jon himself acknowledges they WILL cross the line and take it to the next level, and start selling things that DO affect gameplay for all of us. Even still, I'm not bitching about that. I'm bitching about this website, which I had falsely hoped had some interest in taking the consumers perspective, telling us to be silent on the issue.
My son benefited from the Make-A-Wish foundation.. so I think this is very good. Granted he never got to go to Disneyland, but he did get a Star named after him.
Originally posted by DracosBwing I'm sorry to interject into your diatribe at Jon here, but I have two pretty good questions for you, if you care to answer. [1] First... if you don't like the cash shop in WoW and want to voice your opinion, along with all of the others like you... why not simply ignore it? The cash shop feature is purely voluntary, is it not? No one forcing you to go into it and buy things? What happens as a result of it being in use, or of items being added to it, or of it even existing is completely irrelevant if no one uses the damn thing. Am I right in that respect? [2] And second. You speak of complaining of a thing *before it even happens*. Think of that phrase for a moment if you will. With that mentality, you could march into Mcdonalds right now, and yell at the manager, "How DARE you put a McNinja burger on the menu?! That's insulting to ninjas everywhere!" (Obviously an intentionally silly example). Complaining about something before it happens just because it *could* happen or to prevent it from happening isn't logical, it's drama based. Blizzard COULD announce an overall increase in their monthly charges... have you complained about that? They ARE already charging you... couldn't they get greedy and charge more? They COULD introduce a whole third side to the game... Neutrals, who fight for either side. Think how out of control THAT could get! You'd best complain now, loud and long, or it might happen at some point. The point of complaining about something is not to prevent that thing from coming into existence. It's not a preemptive strike against all that could go wrong with the world. It IS a way to express your displeasure in something that has happened that you think is bad in some way. You point to the fact that you think the cash shop is a bad idea. Say 'I think the cash shop is a bad idea.' WoW has had certain services for sale form the start, be it moving a char to another server or race changes or gender changes... why are these... and I have to stress it once more... useless, non game effecting, buy-only-if-you-want-to items the cause for concern? My opinion is mostly unimportant; I no longer play WoW and if I did, I would express the needed amount of self control to not buy whatever is offered to me by them. If I was asked why I didn't, I would say plainly, 'I think s cash shop in a pay to play game is silly and greedy.' then go about my business. But it's not.complaining and bitching and whining about these things is senseless as long as you, and all like you, exercise the simple right to NOT USE THE CASH SHOP.
I have no problem answering your questions if you still care to read them.
[1] You can't "voice" an opinion by being silent. Ignoring the cash store isn't voicing anything, it is simply turning a blind eye towards it, because game developers can only judge the value of something when players actually give feedback. There are plenty of aspects of wow that I ignore and do not partake in, because they are not gaming aspects that appeal to me. There is nothing wrong with those game aspects and I don't think blizzard views anyone "ignoring" those game features as negative feedback. Developers simply assume there is no problem if people do not express displeasure. They may or may not act on those concerns, but at least they have heard them. Sitting silent in the corner has never been an effective way to communicate an opinion.
[2] Yes your example was silly so I can't really address it, because well it doesn't make much sense. What blizzard is doing can be seen happening in other mmos right now. This isn't a case of just randomly choosing anything out of the realm of infinite possibilities to complain about. We can see evidence that this type of change has indeed lead to developers adding all manner of items from fluff to game affecting items to private rmt only content. This isn't complaining about something that is a grasp at straws or anything in the realm of extreme possibilities. This is addressing the very real trend that games are going and blizzard is now following that trend.
If anything I have said is untrue, feel free to point it out. Beyond that I can't accept "be quiet until it is to late" as a rational retort to concerns that are very much based on trends. A trend that now applies to blizzard.
As to your last line, this is a discussion forum and we are discussing an opinion piece by the site operators. Call it bitching and whining if you like, but it is my responses are valid and on topic even if you don't like my stance.
Beyond that, I know I am on the losing side of this, but that doesn't mean I can't express my views.
Im disgusted that Jon keeps on defending his article and keep flaming thoose of us who thinks this is a terrible move by Blizzard... When the leader of this site is telling everyone who doesnt agree with him to QQ then there is something very wrong going on here. Its a sad day for MMOs and for mmorpg.com
I have never, in my life, ever told anyone to QQ. I have said, many, many times in this thread, that this is my opinion. That's why I wrote it. You're free to disagree. That's fine. So yes, I stand behind what I wrote. I don't know why that means to you that I'm telling everyone else they can QQ.
But does it really matter if someone bought their super weapon or went killed some boss to get it? WoW is just a game, a bunch of pixels, what happens there is only fantasy, its not real life. Would it ruin my gameplay in all honesty ... no, not a jot. I play online games the way I want to play them, I don't buy gold or in-game currency, I don't rush to maximum level, I just try and enjoy my time online. What someone else has or doesn't have, or how they achieved what they have, doesn't affect me in any way, my game is still the same. We can't always look around us and feel we have to have what others have, that erodes who we are.
If only more people thought like this the communities would be so much better. I would guess that the overwhelming majority are the braggart type that quoted you initially, sadly.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I see nothing wrong with charging extra money for in-game bonus items. But to charge $10 per in-game pet that does nothing but follow you is freaking nuts and highly greedy!
You said it yourself - Optional thing that doesn't change the game ... Would a real gaming company then put it into their game ? No - Buisness company would....
Thats the thing. BLizzard has crossed the line from beeing a gaming compnay - into a pure buisness company. Where the experince of the gamer becomes second chose. EXTRA money matters more for them.
This is a huge point, the makers of games are no longer gamers themselves, intent on making a great game, but a business that has to produce a return on investment/equity.
A company does involve business. A gaming company is merely the genre of company that Blizzard seems to be classified as because guess what their products involve. Yes, it is ran like a company because it is a company. Are you really shedding any new light into this world? If you owned the top game and its starting to peak, you would probably be maximizing profits while you can too. Has anyone seemed to be complain when the expansions were being sold for $40 a pop? Or the fact that faction switches are the same price as most normal PC expansion packs? This is just Blizzard being Blizzard, they are the top dog and they are taking advantage of it and you would be nuts if you didn't do the same as a COMPANY. They are after-all a company and there is some point in the day where they got to take care of their bottom line or if you are number 1, maximize while you can. You don't stay number 1 forever -_-
Again, if you are there with them, you would be doing the same. Do not act like if you were offered an opportunity to make extra money at your job (with minimal extra effort), that you wouldn't take it or you would be lying to yourselves. I know how easily influenced you Americans are by money and it definitely shows in this thread and responses to this article.
But does it really matter if someone bought their super weapon or went killed some boss to get it? WoW is just a game, a bunch of pixels, what happens there is only fantasy, its not real life. Would it ruin my gameplay in all honesty ... no, not a jot. I play online games the way I want to play them, I don't buy gold or in-game currency, I don't rush to maximum level, I just try and enjoy my time online. What someone else has or doesn't have, or how they achieved what they have, doesn't affect me in any way, my game is still the same. We can't always look around us and feel we have to have what others have, that erodes who we are.
If only more people thought like this the communities would be so much better. I would guess that the overwhelming majority are the braggart type that quoted you initially, sadly.
You have to consider how things like this affect the developers of games and how they will makes decisions.
Instead of creating engaging ingame content with interesting rewards as has been the trend, the developer now will ask themselves, can I make more money by not putting this in game? Is that really the question we want developers driving their game designs? Who wins in that scenario?
Personally I could care less what the person next to me has, but I don't think it is a sends a good message to reward developers for not making in game content for players to enjoy. Paying to not play only helps the developers and leaves everyone who doesn't want to pay extra out in the cold. It isn't like this is some brand new breakthrough in content either, it is the same stuff that has always been free.
Who do you think developers are going to cater to? A regular subscriber or the "premium customers" who dig deep for extra bits of content?
If this wasn't a vanity pet, but rather icecrown citadel then people would be screaming bloody murder and buring down the forums. Just because this is "lesser" content doesn't make much of a difference. It is still content.
Originally posted by Stradden You may not agree with me, and my philosophy. That's your right. But to take what I said so wildly out of context and run me down personally for having a differing opinion is... Well, silly. But, carry on. you seem to be having a good time, don't let me stop you.
No, you're not a gamer - you're an industry insider. You know who butters your bread, and it's not us.
....
This is one of the most moronic things I have ever read on these forums...
OF COURSE he is a gamer. No one gets into this industry without having a genuine interest in gaming. Jon has repeatedly shown his interest in MMO gaming and the fact that he is a player himself. And as for your assertion that we do not butter his bread as you like to say, that is complete garbage. After all, who butters the bread of any member of the gaming industry if it is not, in fact, the gamers. No one in the industry would have a job if it wasn't for us...
...
Actually, totally wrong. As another poster said, there are non-gamers in this industry from top to bottom.
I had the displeasure of dealing with one of those people a couple of years ago - absolutely no interest in games, gaming or gamers. It was 'a job'. In fact regarded games and gamers with disdain bordering on disgust.
Not that I think this describes Jon Wood - but you don't need to be a gamer to be in the games industry.
As far as MMORPG.com goes, IMHO this site and some of it's writers are drifting away from 'us' (the gamers). You can see it in the way things are written / what is written by MMORPG and the way the site is developing.
I think it's what happens when you have close association with a group (in a professional sense) for too long. As MMO_Doubter says - you become an insider.
To put it in perspective - the problem was identified in political journalists who go on pre-election tours.
These people travel on the same planes, stay in the same hotels, eat at the same restaurants and travel in the same bus convoys as the people they are supposed to be reporting on.
They become more like work colleagues and they lose the objectivity (both ways).
RMT is a hot issue for MMORP Gamers.
On this issue there are real concerns (and some with good reason) within the community.
I see nothing wrong with charging extra money for in-game bonus items. But to charge $10 per in-game pet that does nothing but follow you is freaking nuts and highly greedy!
You don't have to pay for it, I'm sure lots of people will. People paid 39.95 for the BlizzCon DirectTV stream just to get the Grunty pet.
You have to consider how things like this affect the developers of games and how they will makes decisions. Instead of creating engaging ingame content with interesting rewards as has been the trend, the developer now will ask themselves, can I make more money by not putting this in game? Is that really the question we want developers driving their game designs? Who wins in that scenario? Personally I could care less what the person next to me has, but I don't think it is a sends a good message to reward developers for not making in game content for players to enjoy. Paying to not play only helps the developers and leaves everyone who doesn't want to pay extra out in the cold. It isn't like this is some brand new breakthrough in content either, it is the same stuff that has always been free. Who do you think developers are going to cater to? A regular subscriber or the "premium customers" who dig deep for extra bits of content?
If this wasn't a vanity pet, but rather icecrown citadel then people would be screaming bloody murder and buring down the forums. Just because this is "lesser" content doesn't make much of a difference. It is still content.
You merely only present the argument by extrapolating what content is normally defined within the mmo industry into everything in the game. Vanity pets traditionally are not considered content. Game content traditionally defined by the industry tends to be the parts of the game that players can experience. A vanity pet is not an experience in itself, rather just a cheap trick or toy to show off to your buddies. The "wow" factor of it lasts a good 5-10 minutes per person that hasn't seen it before and thats it. It's fairly short lived.
Just because they look for other ways to monetize their game does not mean they don't have a reputation to uphold. They can't just sit there and think about their content and ask themselves, "Oh will this make money?". No, they have to ask themselves, "Will this add enough value to the game to want to draw in more people AND keep the current customers happy enough to stay?" They are primarily sub based and I'm sure it is in their best interest to remain so as long as they have the most subscribers out of any MMO.
The big question for all of the dissenters of the article is: Before the item shop, were you perfectly happy (or even playing) with the game? Can you choose to ignore it and play the game, business as usual, as if the shop doesn't exist? I think we all know the answers to these and I think many of you need to grow up, suck it up and take it like a man if you can't resist the urge to have a cute cuddle panda/lich.
Actually, totally wrong. As another poster said, there are non-gamers in this industry from top to bottom.
I had the displeasure of dealing with one of those people a couple of years ago - absolutely no interest in games, gaming or gamers. It was 'a job'. In fact regarded games and gamers with disdain bordering on disgust.
Not that I think this describes Jon Wood - but you don't need to be a gamer to be in the games industry. As far as MMORPG.com goes, IMHO this site and some of it's writers are drifting away from 'us' (the gamers). You can see it in the way things are written / what is written by MMORPG and the way the site is developing. I think it's what happens when you have close association with a group (in a professional sense) for too long. As MMO_Doubter says - you become an insider. To put it in perspective - the problem was identified in political journalists who go on pre-election tours.
These people travel on the same planes, stay in the same hotels, eat at the same restaurants and travel in the same bus convoys as the people they are supposed to be reporting on.
They become more like work colleagues and they lose the objectivity (both ways).
RMT is a hot issue for MMORP Gamers. On this issue there are real concerns (and some with good reason) within the community.
Quit acting like he's supposed to be the senator of all the MMORPG gamers around the world. That's not what writers are here on the website for. The opinions they express are their owns and hey, part of their job is to stir up the community and guess what, he's doing a good job with such a trivial topic. It's hilarious that he has most of you by his fingertips and you don't even know it. If he honestly is steering away from you, the gamers (since I refuse to associate myself with people like you), then how is it you have taken the time to read his article or at the very least spent some time on his thread. Even if you refuse to read all of his articles from here on out, you're still going to refer back to the site for other MMORPG needs. And to even have some kind of understanding with MMO_Doubter, yuck, at least you don't sound like him, maybe a more coherent version of him. I guess I have to at least thank the extremists that frequent this site for providing great entertainment values and reminders of how narrow-minded and paranoid some people can be.
Comments
one of the best articles to date, well wrote. I fully agree as long as it isn't "required" to play then item malls are all good i really can careless. But on the same note, at least with the Asian Item Mall games, you are able to gain the items in the game that are in the malls in some way. It seems the ones out of america are not like that. Which could be some reason for the animosity.
No, you're not a gamer - you're an industry insider. You know who butters your bread, and it's not us.
This IS the time to protest this move. As loudly as possible. There IS a wolf, and it's foolish to wait for sheep to go missing to sound the alarm. Once that wolf starts feeding, he's not going away.
People protested about Game Guard in Aion - and it was de-activated for NA launch.
People protested about Champions Online's cash shop, and I am convinced that it made Cryptic very cautious about what they put in there.
This is one of the most moronic things I have ever read on these forums...
OF COURSE he is a gamer. No one gets into this industry without having a genuine interest in gaming. Jon has repeatedly shown his interest in MMO gaming and the fact that he is a player himself. And as for your assertion that we do not butter his bread as you like to say, that is complete garbage. After all, who butters the bread of any member of the gaming industry if it is not, in fact, the gamers. No one in the industry would have a job if it wasn't for us...
If you have a point you feel compelled to make, don't you think it is better to engage in meaningful debate rather than make personal attacks?
My God man...
Why don't you read the thread so you understand the reasons why people are alarmed.
Oh believe me I have..."Alarmed" is WAY too pale a word for some of the reactions I've seen. Hysterical fits it much better. RMT with some gamers is much like the word nuclear is to greenies. It invokes a hysterical knee jerk reaction. Neither group seems capable of a rational/reasoned approach to those subjects. Its all doom and gloom, and the sky is falling nonsense. Can RMT be negative? Of course, in fact I've seen rather glaring examples of such excess. Look at Perfect World as an example. But what Blizzard is doing is far, FAR from that. Hysterics intone...For now... But preemptive hysterics are much like some of the preemptive attacks we've seen over the last 8 years...Little(if any) good comes from it.
I suddenly had no desire to read anything else Jon Wood writes after that article. There was something very pompous about it.
Im disgusted that Jon keeps on defending his article and keep flaming thoose of us who thinks this is a terrible move by Blizzard... When the leader of this site is telling everyone who doesnt agree with him to QQ then there is something very wrong going on here.
Its a sad day for MMOs and for mmorpg.com
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
People have no reason to bitch though. They are complaining cause they can not because blizzard did anything wrong. Its a vanity pet shop. It doesn't change the game. It doesn't affect your gameplay. Hell it doesn't even affect anyone who doesn't want to purchase them.
This is one of the most moronic things I have ever read on these forums...
OF COURSE he is a gamer. No one gets into this industry without having a genuine interest in gaming. Jon has repeatedly shown his interest in MMO gaming and the fact that he is a player himself. And as for your assertion that we do not butter his bread as you like to say, that is complete garbage. After all, who butters the bread of any member of the gaming industry if it is not, in fact, the gamers. No one in the industry would have a job if it wasn't for us...
If you have a point you feel compelled to make, don't you think it is better to engage in meaningful debate rather than make personal attacks?
My God man...
Such bullshit.
I can tell you have no clue what you are talking about as I do happen to work in games, and I can tell you that probably a good 1/3 of the people I interact with on a daily basis are not gamers, nor interested in games. They're in it for the money (crazy concept for some). And the ratio of gamers to non-gamers is getting smaller everyday (in my experience).
I will say, yes, it's most likely that this site was started as a fan site dedicated to games out of passion (after all, it was started before MMO's truly hit the big time). Most are. But then these sites gain traffic and credibility with a desirable demographic of consumer, marketing people take notice, deals are struck.
Yes it's true that if it wasn't for gamers, there'd be no bread to butter (good call with the font color btw), marketing dollars are a much more immediate reward. Do you truly believe that the owners of this site would rather wait for the MMO industry to grow and flourish than take a fat check up front to sell a particular product?
My God man...
People have no reason to bitch though. They are complaining cause they can not because blizzard did anything wrong. Its a vanity pet shop. It doesn't change the game. It doesn't affect your gameplay. Hell it doesn't even affect anyone who doesn't want to purchase them.
Now to take this to the next level metaphorically speaking. How about instead of protesting health care reform (for those who are against it), you just wait and see if it happens first. After all, it doesn't appear it's gonna affect you personally right? You should just hold on to your opinions until something bad really does happen
.
Extreme example perhaps (in scale), but the same principle.
It should have been the other way around. Make a donation to Make a Wish foundation and get a vantity pet in WOW.
The blogger point is totally wrong.He seems to be encouraging the disturbing trend amongst wester MMO who want to rip subscription money along with micro transactions.
Its always a disturbing trend whether its only vanity pets , or only colors to dye armor , or special house gifts.The excuse is oh its just for vanity it does not affect stat or gameplay experience
But it does MMORPG is a social networking rather than just a game.Apart from just questing and PVP peopl spend a lot of time chit chatting and socialising in the game.Here the person who has more bucks can get an edge.
Secondly ,it encourage the MMO companies .
Guild Wars has micro transcation but for its defence it doesnt have subs fee.
1) Pay for extra storage space
2) Pay for extra character slot
3) Pay for new facemodels / makeups
4) PAy for gender change
5) Pay to get all PVP skills unlocked and so one
But these are disturbing used by Many MMO who alos function via subs
Total money grubbing bullshit. You pay them 15 bucks a month already.
Darkfall Travelogues!
People have no reason to bitch though. They are complaining cause they can not because blizzard did anything wrong. Its a vanity pet shop. It doesn't change the game. It doesn't affect your gameplay. Hell it doesn't even affect anyone who doesn't want to purchase them.
Now to take this to the next level metaphorically speaking. How about instead of protesting health care reform (for those who are against it), you just wait and see if it happens first. After all, it doesn't appear it's gonna affect you personally right? You should just hold on to your opinions until something bad really does happen
.
Extreme example perhaps (in scale), but the same principle.
LOL!! "Health care reform"... Have you looked at some of the Sweet Deals for various lobby groups in that? Lord only knows where those clowns think they are going to get the money to pay for that socialist nonsense. But the hysteria involved in that(all sides) is at least about something that might be important. This current issue is totally trivial.
i see no problem with this your not getting any perks or anything of that sort just a vanity pet and if u get the pandern 50% go to the make a wish foundation which is a worthy cause imo. i think this hurts no one n less they start making recpecs and so forth cost irl money i e champions online
People have no reason to bitch though. They are complaining cause they can not because blizzard did anything wrong. Its a vanity pet shop. It doesn't change the game. It doesn't affect your gameplay. Hell it doesn't even affect anyone who doesn't want to purchase them.
Now to take this to the next level metaphorically speaking. How about instead of protesting health care reform (for those who are against it), you just wait and see if it happens first. After all, it doesn't appear it's gonna affect you personally right? You should just hold on to your opinions until something bad really does happen
.
Extreme example perhaps (in scale), but the same principle.
LOL!! "Health care reform"... Have you looked at some of the Sweet Deals for various lobby groups in that? Lord only knows where those clowns think they are going to get the money to pay for that socialist nonsense. But the hysteria involved in that(all sides) is at least about something that might be important. This current issue is totally trivial.
LOL!! You obviously didn't get why I brought it up!
I don't care either way about health care reform as I'm not an American. The reason I used that as an analogy is to show that it's important that people in the free world have a voice, and to criticize people for expressing concern is ludicrous (and I might ad very 'un-American' from what my understanding of what it's supposed to mean to be American). Sure, it's for a game that doesn't actually mean squat in the grand scheme of the world, but as consumer, people need to have a voice. Whether it's expressing fear of a large multinational raping gamers wallets, or some other product or service, consumers need to have the right to be vocal. It's what keeps business honest (at least outwordly) and us, ALL OF US, safe from getting ripped off at every turn.
My opinion? If Blizzard wants to sell pets that don't affect the game to people who want them, or even people who are passionate about whatever charity they attach to said pets, all the power to 'em. Unfortunately, even Jon himself acknowledges they WILL cross the line and take it to the next level, and start selling things that DO affect gameplay for all of us. Even still, I'm not bitching about that. I'm bitching about this website, which I had falsely hoped had some interest in taking the consumers perspective, telling us to be silent on the issue.
My son benefited from the Make-A-Wish foundation.. so I think this is very good. Granted he never got to go to Disneyland, but he did get a Star named after him.
I have no problem answering your questions if you still care to read them.
[1] You can't "voice" an opinion by being silent. Ignoring the cash store isn't voicing anything, it is simply turning a blind eye towards it, because game developers can only judge the value of something when players actually give feedback. There are plenty of aspects of wow that I ignore and do not partake in, because they are not gaming aspects that appeal to me. There is nothing wrong with those game aspects and I don't think blizzard views anyone "ignoring" those game features as negative feedback. Developers simply assume there is no problem if people do not express displeasure. They may or may not act on those concerns, but at least they have heard them. Sitting silent in the corner has never been an effective way to communicate an opinion.
[2] Yes your example was silly so I can't really address it, because well it doesn't make much sense. What blizzard is doing can be seen happening in other mmos right now. This isn't a case of just randomly choosing anything out of the realm of infinite possibilities to complain about. We can see evidence that this type of change has indeed lead to developers adding all manner of items from fluff to game affecting items to private rmt only content. This isn't complaining about something that is a grasp at straws or anything in the realm of extreme possibilities. This is addressing the very real trend that games are going and blizzard is now following that trend.
If anything I have said is untrue, feel free to point it out. Beyond that I can't accept "be quiet until it is to late" as a rational retort to concerns that are very much based on trends. A trend that now applies to blizzard.
As to your last line, this is a discussion forum and we are discussing an opinion piece by the site operators. Call it bitching and whining if you like, but it is my responses are valid and on topic even if you don't like my stance.
Beyond that, I know I am on the losing side of this, but that doesn't mean I can't express my views.
I have never, in my life, ever told anyone to QQ. I have said, many, many times in this thread, that this is my opinion. That's why I wrote it. You're free to disagree. That's fine. So yes, I stand behind what I wrote. I don't know why that means to you that I'm telling everyone else they can QQ.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Come on, Jon...now you're just being reasonable!
Mne eto nado kak zuby v zadnitse.
If only more people thought like this the communities would be so much better. I would guess that the overwhelming majority are the braggart type that quoted you initially, sadly.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I see nothing wrong with charging extra money for in-game bonus items. But to charge $10 per in-game pet that does nothing but follow you is freaking nuts and highly greedy!
You said it yourself - Optional thing that doesn't change the game ... Would a real gaming company then put it into their game ? No - Buisness company would....
Thats the thing. BLizzard has crossed the line from beeing a gaming compnay - into a pure buisness company. Where the experince of the gamer becomes second chose. EXTRA money matters more for them.
This is a huge point, the makers of games are no longer gamers themselves, intent on making a great game, but a business that has to produce a return on investment/equity.
A company does involve business. A gaming company is merely the genre of company that Blizzard seems to be classified as because guess what their products involve. Yes, it is ran like a company because it is a company. Are you really shedding any new light into this world? If you owned the top game and its starting to peak, you would probably be maximizing profits while you can too. Has anyone seemed to be complain when the expansions were being sold for $40 a pop? Or the fact that faction switches are the same price as most normal PC expansion packs? This is just Blizzard being Blizzard, they are the top dog and they are taking advantage of it and you would be nuts if you didn't do the same as a COMPANY. They are after-all a company and there is some point in the day where they got to take care of their bottom line or if you are number 1, maximize while you can. You don't stay number 1 forever -_-
Again, if you are there with them, you would be doing the same. Do not act like if you were offered an opportunity to make extra money at your job (with minimal extra effort), that you wouldn't take it or you would be lying to yourselves. I know how easily influenced you Americans are by money and it definitely shows in this thread and responses to this article.
If only more people thought like this the communities would be so much better. I would guess that the overwhelming majority are the braggart type that quoted you initially, sadly.
You have to consider how things like this affect the developers of games and how they will makes decisions.
Instead of creating engaging ingame content with interesting rewards as has been the trend, the developer now will ask themselves, can I make more money by not putting this in game? Is that really the question we want developers driving their game designs? Who wins in that scenario?
Personally I could care less what the person next to me has, but I don't think it is a sends a good message to reward developers for not making in game content for players to enjoy. Paying to not play only helps the developers and leaves everyone who doesn't want to pay extra out in the cold. It isn't like this is some brand new breakthrough in content either, it is the same stuff that has always been free.
Who do you think developers are going to cater to? A regular subscriber or the "premium customers" who dig deep for extra bits of content?
If this wasn't a vanity pet, but rather icecrown citadel then people would be screaming bloody murder and buring down the forums. Just because this is "lesser" content doesn't make much of a difference. It is still content.
No, you're not a gamer - you're an industry insider. You know who butters your bread, and it's not us.
....This is one of the most moronic things I have ever read on these forums...
OF COURSE he is a gamer. No one gets into this industry without having a genuine interest in gaming. Jon has repeatedly shown his interest in MMO gaming and the fact that he is a player himself. And as for your assertion that we do not butter his bread as you like to say, that is complete garbage. After all, who butters the bread of any member of the gaming industry if it is not, in fact, the gamers. No one in the industry would have a job if it wasn't for us...
...Actually, totally wrong. As another poster said, there are non-gamers in this industry from top to bottom.
I had the displeasure of dealing with one of those people a couple of years ago - absolutely no interest in games, gaming or gamers. It was 'a job'. In fact regarded games and gamers with disdain bordering on disgust.
Not that I think this describes Jon Wood - but you don't need to be a gamer to be in the games industry.
As far as MMORPG.com goes, IMHO this site and some of it's writers are drifting away from 'us' (the gamers). You can see it in the way things are written / what is written by MMORPG and the way the site is developing.
I think it's what happens when you have close association with a group (in a professional sense) for too long. As MMO_Doubter says - you become an insider.
To put it in perspective - the problem was identified in political journalists who go on pre-election tours.
These people travel on the same planes, stay in the same hotels, eat at the same restaurants and travel in the same bus convoys as the people they are supposed to be reporting on.
They become more like work colleagues and they lose the objectivity (both ways).
RMT is a hot issue for MMORP Gamers.
On this issue there are real concerns (and some with good reason) within the community.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
You don't have to pay for it, I'm sure lots of people will. People paid 39.95 for the BlizzCon DirectTV stream just to get the Grunty pet.
You merely only present the argument by extrapolating what content is normally defined within the mmo industry into everything in the game. Vanity pets traditionally are not considered content. Game content traditionally defined by the industry tends to be the parts of the game that players can experience. A vanity pet is not an experience in itself, rather just a cheap trick or toy to show off to your buddies. The "wow" factor of it lasts a good 5-10 minutes per person that hasn't seen it before and thats it. It's fairly short lived.
Just because they look for other ways to monetize their game does not mean they don't have a reputation to uphold. They can't just sit there and think about their content and ask themselves, "Oh will this make money?". No, they have to ask themselves, "Will this add enough value to the game to want to draw in more people AND keep the current customers happy enough to stay?" They are primarily sub based and I'm sure it is in their best interest to remain so as long as they have the most subscribers out of any MMO.
The big question for all of the dissenters of the article is: Before the item shop, were you perfectly happy (or even playing) with the game? Can you choose to ignore it and play the game, business as usual, as if the shop doesn't exist? I think we all know the answers to these and I think many of you need to grow up, suck it up and take it like a man if you can't resist the urge to have a cute cuddle panda/lich.
Quit acting like he's supposed to be the senator of all the MMORPG gamers around the world. That's not what writers are here on the website for. The opinions they express are their owns and hey, part of their job is to stir up the community and guess what, he's doing a good job with such a trivial topic. It's hilarious that he has most of you by his fingertips and you don't even know it. If he honestly is steering away from you, the gamers (since I refuse to associate myself with people like you), then how is it you have taken the time to read his article or at the very least spent some time on his thread. Even if you refuse to read all of his articles from here on out, you're still going to refer back to the site for other MMORPG needs. And to even have some kind of understanding with MMO_Doubter, yuck, at least you don't sound like him, maybe a more coherent version of him. I guess I have to at least thank the extremists that frequent this site for providing great entertainment values and reminders of how narrow-minded and paranoid some people can be.