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What happened to MMO's?
Thedrizzle
Member Posts: 322
So what, the juggeernaut that is WoW has sucked up all the subscribers?
What is going on? Im not the only MMO vet out there that is jones'n for some true fun? Whats going on? The new wave generation of online gamers have to thirst for something more, no? Doesnt it get old grinding for gear OVER AND OVER again?
This just comes from a frustrated gamer who has been around in the MMO world since day one. Honestly i lost all hope at SB, thats when i broke (years ago)is there a LIGHT at the end of the tunnel?
I'm a boxer ready to throw in his gloves. Ive been holding out for years, but i guess its time to give up. I guess MMO's are like drugs, the first few hits are great, but then you keep going to stay straight.
Id rather be dope sick then play the current games on the market.
Comments
Never played WoW, but I am in agreement with you sir.
Will no company step up and take a chance to develop something new and different than the current selection of recycled material ??
I'm not giving up yet, but hope is fading.
Everything is rehashed anymore. Reboots of movies, music remakes, games, TV shows. Nothing is original, nothing is taking a chance. Pretty much all mainstream media right now is complete garbage, and MMOs have gone mainstream. There isn't a market for things that aim to be long-term. Everything is disposable. You can definitely see that in the recent MMO releases. Just something to grab a bit of cash, hold subs for a month or two, just long enough to get capital for the next carbon-copy crap to be shoveled out.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
I know how you feel, it seems since WoW has come out and other dev's seen how successful the game has been, they all try to copy its gameplay and game mechanics, While this make its easier on the dev team, they need to relize that if people want WoW they would play WoW. I been playing mmorpgs since UO and such. Right now the mmo market is pretty much full of garbage, with nothing in the next 6 months looking promising. However, I am looking forward to ff14, and Earthrise. I just hope Square doesn't WoWify FF14 too much. They are adding more Solo/casual stuff to FF14 but I hope they still make the game need a party for most of it. Fallen Earth was a nice try at something new, even though the dev team did a piss-poor job of executing it, the game ended up a total snore fest.
I still have a retail warhammer online key I never used.. Can't be bothered with it. I'm in the croud that likes pvp, but hates being forced into it like Warhammer does. Anyway back on topic. I agree with the OP that the current crop of games are pretty high up there on the crap-o-meter mainly due to just being altering versions of WoW.
Nothing happened.
Games that attempt to innovate are slammed for breaking tradition, or for not being a "real" MMO. Games that follow tradition are criticized for being reiterative, or "yet another clone".
I propose the problem isn't with games, but rather jaded veterans; their unrealistic and all too frequently contradictory expectations.
This question comes up daily on this website, and some of us feel like we understand. Read my post from today in this thread if you want some of my thoughts on the issue (it's a long read) http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3206019#3206019
In a nutshell, these new MMO's are like comparing a bad 30 minute T.V. sitcom to the Lord of the Rings Movie Trilogy. There is no depth, player diversity, and these games are not evolving forward with new and interesting features such as improved AI, more dynamic, living/breathing worlds, and new types of game play. They have, in fact, devolved to cater to the masses who want instant gratification. Trouble is, instant gratification gets boring very quickly, even for the mindless. People are now beginning to look around for something more interesting, meanwhile, the MMO industry still thinks everyone wants the next best WoW-clone.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Simple.
WoW made money. Attracted those companies that are in it for money and not necessarily because they like the genre.
Result is crap they feel is WoW-tastic and should be great. Not understanding what it was that made WoW so appealing.
IMO, WoW has done what could be done with an MMO to streamline the game and make it less tedious. That was the major complaint to most gamers about MMO. To copy that is to make another WoW.
Fallen Earth is interesting and new. EVE is interesting and different ( Dirt is a big gamble and should bring some much needed breath into the genre to prove you can have an FPS in a MMO ).
There are those who are trying but, PC games are being turmped by easier to develope and mass produce Console games. Which are cheaper and less complicated than a good gaming rig that does not need to be replaced with each new game released. MMO's like WoW take a huge amount of resources to get together and can flop miserably, look at Mythic.
Who knows if the market will have anything in the works will be worth a crap. SOE has the spy MMo that looks interesting. Awfull quiet on it recently tho.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Im not offeneded by your statement, but what was your first MMORPG? And what do you see different from your first game as opposed to the games that are out now?
Is it the loss of gear due to pks? Is it the loss of gear due to death penalty? Is it leveling to slow? Is it anything that made a game worth something? That made you feel like you actually accomplished something?
Wehn i made my first level 50 in DAOC or my first 3x 100 PK in UO i felt in real life a sense of elation. In any new game released when I make max level its like, "ok". Maybe it is us jaded VETS who just need t move on.
*sigh*
Here it comes...
*edit*
Your edit really pulled that one out of the fire. Thought you were going to go a completely different way with that.
Cool.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
Im not offeneded by your statement, but what was your first MMORPG? And what do you see different from your first game as opposed to the games that are out now?
Is it the loss of gear due to pks? Is it the loss of gear due to death penalty? Is it leveling to slow? Is it anything that made a game worth something? That made you feel like you actually accomplished something?
Wehn i made my first level 50 in DAOC or my first 3x 100 PK in UO i felt in real life a sense of elation. In any new game released when I make max level its like, "ok". Maybe it is us jaded VETS who just need t move on.
SWG (from launch, aka: pre-CU).
What do I see different? Not a whole heck of a lot.
Exactly!
Aion is the most fun I've had playing an MMO since DAoC likely because I went in no expectations and didn't pick at every little thing wrong with it. I play to have fun and take my time which in turn removes any "grind" folks claim there is.
The expectations of MMO gamers these days is way to high...hell I've already seen 2-3 posts here with someone comparing Dragon Age to MMOs..I mean come on lets be realistic people lol
My 2 cents...
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
Im not offeneded by your statement, but what was your first MMORPG? And what do you see different from your first game as opposed to the games that are out now?
Is it the loss of gear due to pks? Is it the loss of gear due to death penalty? Is it leveling to slow? Is it anything that made a game worth something? That made you feel like you actually accomplished something?
Wehn i made my first level 50 in DAOC or my first 3x 100 PK in UO i felt in real life a sense of elation. In any new game released when I make max level its like, "ok". Maybe it is us jaded VETS who just need t move on.
SWG (from launch, aka: pre-CU).
What do I see different? Not a whole heck of a lot.
Point taken
First of all, I encourage you to quit using meth- it will destroy you. Second, I cannot reiterate this enough with people. If you don't like wow and are unsatisfied with the games that are out there today, DEMAND DIFFERENT. Flaming forums on MMORPG.com might be a start, but you need to petition these studios and developers en masse if your want change. They WILL NOT make anything that they don't see as profitable and if you can't show them the possibility, if not promise, of profitability, then they will not produce this magical "Anti-WoW" that you all are asking for. You guys are the consumers- use your fucking power!
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
If you say that then what side of the fence are you standing on? Slamming traditional games or saying all released games are clones?
I am currently playing WoW, mostly because my wife and friends do and that there isn't anything else out there that offers what I like about mmorpgs. I had hope in Aion, but I got bored with it soon after release. WoW's success was based on the Blizzard and WarCraft name brand initially. When folks saw what a well developed mmorpg can offer many stuck around. WoW was the first mmorpg I played that wasn't a grindfest. Only Blizzard and WoW will probably have success with a WoW formula. If you notice that Bioware is taking a different approach to SWTOR, they are blending elements that made KoToR great with some neat features, (like the bounty hunter's cover system).
That being said. I agree with you that PC gaming is losing out to console development. The next generation of consoles will probably offer something akin to a windows environment, if they offer keyboard and mouse compatability, they'll snag up a lot of gamers. Game developers can then focus on whatever consoles that are popular and develop for them. It's so much easier to develop for systems that have static hardware specs.
As far as future mmorpgs. FF 14 looks like it'll be different. While I don't want them to add forced grouping for character progression, they need to make grouping rewarding enough to attract users to do so.
Second, I cannot reiterate this enough with people. If you don't like wow and are unsatisfied with the games that are out there today, DEMAND DIFFERENT.
Us dinosaurs are a dien' breed. All the bitching in the world won't do a thing. It will never change, the new generation of MMOG'rs are use to being hand held throughout the game, without risk and without challenge. Why would anyone want to be challenegend? Instant gratification is much much easiier.
So thus my question has been answered. Its either conform to what makes a profit, or toss in the gloves.
It seems like the later. Thanks for the wake up call..
PS.. I dont use meth, although i know it twas in jest. Maybe i should start doing it. Then i could roleplay Dread Lord Sinvrall again and PK noobs down at the mall, loot their corpses and moon gate back to my home to stock pile loot.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/246938/page/7
Read Beatnik59's post on the page I linked. That's a good sum up of what happened.
I'm the explorer on that list so it's no wonder I can't enjoy MMOs anymore. Luckily exploration can be had in single player games like Oblivion.
All that's left is the redeployed grind. A more upfront level grind was more honest than what is had today.
The group that's left is happy though. They get to enjoy that +1 effect for that trillions of gold piece, or amount for repairing, for memory's sake.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
Second, I cannot reiterate this enough with people. If you don't like wow and are unsatisfied with the games that are out there today, DEMAND DIFFERENT.
Us dinosaurs are a dien' breed. All the bitching in the world won't do a thing. It will never change, the new generation of MMOG'rs are use to being hand held throughout the game, without risk and without challenge. Why would anyone want to be challenegend? Instant gratification is much much easiier.
So thus my question has been answered. Its either conform to what makes a profit, or toss in the gloves.
It seems like the later. Thanks for the wake up call..
PS.. I dont use meth, although i know it twas in jest. Maybe i should start doing it. Then i could roleplay Dread Lord Sinvrall again and PK noobs down at the mall, loot their corpses and moon gate back to my home to stock pile loot.
Boy would that make a great share at a NA meeting :P
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
Repair bills and lost loot made the games worth while.
Nothing was more frustrating then die'n, doing a corpse run and seeing some folks looting your corpse, but it just made you work harder.
Second, I cannot reiterate this enough with people. If you don't like wow and are unsatisfied with the games that are out there today, DEMAND DIFFERENT.
Us dinosaurs are a dien' breed. All the bitching in the world won't do a thing. It will never change, the new generation of MMOG'rs are use to being hand held throughout the game, without risk and without challenge. Why would anyone want to be challenegend? Instant gratification is much much easiier.
So thus my question has been answered. Its either conform to what makes a profit, or toss in the gloves.
It seems like the later. Thanks for the wake up call..
PS.. I dont use meth, although i know it twas in jest. Maybe i should start doing it. Then i could roleplay Dread Lord Sinvrall again and PK noobs down at the mall, loot their corpses and moon gate back to my home to stock pile loot.
Boy would that make a great share at a NA meeting :P
Hello, My name is Sinvrall and im a PK.
Its been 5 years since I Iast killed and looted a PK due to the fact that the industry is starving us out.
(PS. Astral, You know alot about meetings, wanna share? :P)
If you say that then what side of the fence are you standing on? Slamming traditional games or saying all released games are clones?
Neither. Or more to the point: neither is productive without a healthy dose of genuine introspection.
The only upcoming game I hold any hope for is Planetside Next. I hope SOE pulls it off and it could be fantastic, but so many things can go wrong that I really don't hold out much hope - not anymore...
Zoom
IF the genre hasn't really changed that much
AND we (the players) are the real problem
THEN the important question (which has been asked before) is: Why is the mmorpg genre the only gaming genre that almost guarantees you will be burnt out after your first major game?
FPS, RTS, RPG, people pick up one title after another and never have the compaints that nearly every veteran MMO player has.
This isn't a new question. And it's ha done short answer for the past 6 years.
WoW happened to MMOs, and now they are dead. If anyone wants to argue otherwise, I dare you.
Pre WoW, MMOs were more challenging and most of them were very innovative. There were a few EQ clones, but even EQ clones had innovations of their own. WoW literally has not brought anything new to the market, except casual players. These casual players are now the target audience of MMOs, so games are made shallow simple and easy, clones, that are designed to gobble box sales and then have the casuals move on to the next big title. There are very few full fledged innovative MMOs designed for player retention anymore.
Darkfall Travelogues!
What happened to MMO's is what is happening to our North American society. Everyone is looking for the quick fix. The instant gratification. The I want it now, with no or very little work attitude. You see it in popular television, movies, music, and games. Our entertainment has gone from deep and meaningful to shallow and meaningless. There is no real gratification or fulfillment to the quick fixes. It's a very short high followed by a shallow empty feeling low. If you notice all the current popular entertainment is designed to capture your attention in short blocks, with something new always around the corner. No depth or meaning there. It's entertainment that is designed for people with no attention span. The MMO's of today are a direct reflection of the masses as a whole. Mindless, unconscious, feeling less, insatiable. It is no wonder that the MMO's of today are horrible.
Now add to that, the fact that game developers are now making games for profit and profit alone. It's a business now, not an art form. The games are designed to make money. There is no artistic or creative integrity. The games are not designed to be great. They are made to make money.
MMO's are not evolving, as was touched upon by another poster. They have become stagnant. I don't think we can expect anything to change unless we change as a society. We have to demand better.
On a more positive note, a game I have being playing briefly that many considered failed, is free and is quite good: The chronicles of Spellborn. Give it a try, you might be surprised.
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Science has never proven that what we see in front of us is in fact real.
Maybe those other genres simply don't appeal as much to the whiney subset of nerds prone to confuse entertainment with an OCD lifestyle choice?